- This topic has 38 replies, 2 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 3 months ago by Leroy S Mahoney.
July 28, 2017 at 8:27 pm #17332
Robin Vander WallAdmin
By Joshua Vaughn . . . Roughly two weeks ago the Pennsylvania Supreme Court deemed the state’s current sex offender registration law to be punishment
[See the full post at: District Attorney to seek SCOTUS review of PA decision]
July 28, 2017 at 9:42 pm #17088
I believe this will be the proverbial straw that breaks the camels back in regards to the scotus taking the snyder case. Granted we are talking state vs fed, but the Pennsylvania decision has some federal undertones with awa. I really think Kennedy wants to correct what was misunderstood (or ignored) during the smith v doe case, which he more or less referenced in the Packingham case. I serioisly doubt he would have gone that far off topic in the Packingham opinion unless there was good reason to do so. I realize that both the Michigan federal district and the Pennsylvania supreme court have ruled in favor of registrants and normally the scotus looks for a difference of opinion, but based on what I listed above this will be an exception to the rule.
July 28, 2017 at 9:50 pm #17107
Robin Vander WallAdmin
Our attorneys are of the opinion that if SCOTUS grants the Snyder petition it will be for the purpose of reversing, not sustaining the Sixth Circuit’s decision. Otherwise, there is no good reason for the Court to disturb the outcome. Our attorneys could be wrong, of course. But it does make fairy good, practical sense. With regard to the PA case, it has not been the practice of the high Court to settle disputes between the Circuits and state supreme courts. So I don’t see that as a matter ripe for much contemplation. SCOTUS prefers to resolve clear questions of constitutional law that are at dispute or are otherwise in conflict where either two or more Circuits reach different outcomes or where there are a handful of state supreme courts on both sides of an unresolved constitutional question. From the Court’s perspective, there is no such dichotomy between a single Circuit and a single state supreme court.
July 30, 2017 at 10:07 am #17340
What about the fact that if someone took a plea agreement including 10 years on the registry, then they got switched to longer under SORNA.
I’m not a “legal person,” but it seems to me that’s a breach of contract of some sort. They shouldn’t be able to go around switching the terms of the agreement after the fact.
July 30, 2017 at 10:47 am #17344
The link below is from another forum so Im not taking credit for finding it, but it has some priceless quotes from Freed. He does indeed use the word punishment and he also doesnt seem completely convinced the registry is doing anything.
“You can look at that and say ‘people on the registry aren’t committing sex crimes,’” Cumberland County District Attorney David Freed said.
“Would they be more likely to do so if we didn’t have a registry?” he said. “I can’t answer that. … Is it effective? That’s the question for all these punishments.”
July 31, 2017 at 7:54 am #17424
Your appeal won’t succeed. If what I read here is any indication of the opinion of your state Supreme Court, those justices already included the US Constitution in their decision which does say that ex post facto laws are PROHIBITED!!!! Plus, with the way the US Supreme Court ruled against NC in their attempt to keep sex offenders off social media, I don’t see them overturning your Supreme Court’s decision. In fact, I see the death of this SORNA, which it should. Sex offender registries are nothing more than an added punishment of life-time probation after the fact, and it’s about time that the US Supreme Court recognize that fact and strike all of these laws down whether the hysterical public likes it or not. THAT IS OUR CONSTITUTION, AND WE EITHER ARE GOING TO FOLLOW IT OR DO AWAY WITH IT SO WE CAN CONTINUE AN ILLEGAL WITCH HUNT IN THE NAME OF “CHILD SAFETY”.
July 31, 2017 at 11:00 am #17436
George In Texas
I’ve shifted my view a bit on this and now think the best course of action is to pray that SCOTUS does NOT grant cert in either this decision from the PA SC or the Snyder case. Robin is correct that most likely if the SCOTUS takes these cases it will be to overturn them — that’s something that we must not suffer at this point in time.
Instead, IMO, we should focus our attention on the cases that have been defeated, or will meet defeat, at the lower levels and support their challenges up to the SCOTUS. The decisions from the 6th circuit (Snyder) as well as the PA SC can be used as material in the challenges. We need top level representation from here on out and select the best cases to throw our resources in with. Now is the time to strike — momentum is in our favor. For those, such as I, who believe in the power of prayer and positive thinking, the universal law of attraction or whatever you believe that is based in truth, now is the time to double down and concentrate on this time in history.
We have a great opportunity it seems, let’s not waste it please!
July 31, 2017 at 11:50 am #17455
I guess District Attorney David Freed is not interested in the constitutional rights of the citizens!
July 31, 2017 at 11:51 am #17450
The U.S. Supreme Court should deny review of the state appeal pertaining to the Sex Offender registration retroactively or extending the registry to prior convictions in which is punishment and not merely administrative as public servants claim. The prior ruling of the Sex Offender registry should never have been applied retroactively or to first time offenders period. The current penalty of a felony for not registering is not a new offense for a new charge because it reverts back to the original convictions of a sex offense. This is a blatant violation of Ex Post Facto and Bill of Attainder. Pure punishment in which does not protect society and is applied vindictively. Thousands of state plea bargains have been breached after the fact with this out lawry law. There will be another challenge in court to overturn prior convictions for not registering and those currently required to register retroactively in every state and federally.
July 31, 2017 at 11:50 am #17452
The appeal will be denied.
August 1, 2017 at 9:24 pm #17665
The only advantage to having this heard before SCOTUS would be if they upheld the decision, thereby establishing a federal precedent rather then just for Pennsylvania. It will be vitally important to pound the recidivism statistics ad nauseum into the arguments as they have been used as the basis for supporting SORNA with the legal argument that EX POST FACTO doesn’t apply because the law is administrative, not punitive, for the purpose of protecting the community.
What is often overlooked is Section 4 of the AWA which prohibits certain offenders from sponsoring anyone… spouse, parent, and so on. The AWA was instituted to protect minors, therefore application to any beneficiary over the age of 18 is not warranted. This provision of the AWA is definitely punitive… in no manner does separating a man and wife from being able to live in the same country achieving any degree of protection for the community. If an offender’s victim was NOT a minor, then the provision is not applicable…. a little discriminatory perhaps?
It needs to be examined if the AWA has a severability clause.. without it, if any part of the law is deemed unconstitutional, then the Act has the same fate. I recommend that if the Supreme Court reviews this case that all parts of the AWA be subjected to review and not just the registration issue. It needs to be looked at, not just at the legal language of the Act itself, but the manner in which it is being applied… all sections of the Act. Even a cursory review of the application of Section 4 of the Act indicates that it is punitive and wholly unconstitutional.
I don’t minimize the importance of the registration aspects of the Act. Due to work changes, I have now been registered in 5 different states. Trust me when I say that they are not all the same. Some are fairly supportive with offenders, while others are extremely punitive seeking to humiliate and badger everyone who is subjected to registration. After 20 years of this, with no issues of re-offending, or violating registration rules, it is ridiculous to see how many of those conducting the registration have little idea what they are really doing.
I understand the argument regarding the community benefit of registration… but since too many of those doing the registration don’t understand the gravity of some crimes vs. others, how can they adequately advise the public? Being registered with local LEOs is one thing… dissemination of the information to the general public, who are generally ill informed, is disastrous. With one of the lowest recidivism rates, it is unrealistic, discriminatory and unconstitutional to continue this practice.
August 2, 2017 at 12:43 am #17698
If SCOTUS reverses the Sixth Circuit, does that mean that State’s like PA, AK etc. will have to defer their State’s Constitutional Rulings and re-register those who gained relief?
August 2, 2017 at 12:57 am #17702
Robin Vander WallAdmin
Certainly not. If SCOTUS reverses the Sixth, it would be status quo for Michigan. It will have no effect in states like PA or AK. At least not insofar as their own state court decisions are concerned. However, the effect of a reversal would likely emboldened state legislatures throughout the country to enact even more onerous and burdensome statutes against registered citizens. However, if the high court does grant the petition, there will be a deluge of amicus briefs filed on both sides. Those that are opposed to a reversal will very likely cite to state supreme court decisions such as PA’s as supporting, persuasive reckoning in favor of allowing the Sixth Circuit opinion to stand. But I stand by my own legal reasoning in the belief that the Court will not grant cert UNLESS its intention is to reverse the Sixth Circuit. Otherwise, it affirms by default if it denies the petition, which is a whole lot easier. The Court is like any other branch of government. It only performs its duty when it absolutely has to….and, like the other branches, it’s always looking for a good reason to kick the ball.
August 2, 2017 at 7:31 am #17707
Thanks so much for that explanation. I must say you’ve convinced me. Results are better than a hoped-for outcome. I am now hoping SCOTUS will not hear the case and allow further favorable precedence to pile up.
I am still at a loss as to how our highest court got it wrong the first time around.
August 2, 2017 at 2:40 pm #17772
Robin, I agree that Court will not grant cert UNLESS its intention is to reverse the Sixth Circuit; however, I also tend to believe that SCOTUS will grant cert to resolve CIRCUIT SPLITS as Michigan repeatedly stated in their briefs. If and when SCOTUS granted cert, I believe they WILL do so based on contractions in briefs between STATES, FED, and the splits at the lower federal courts levels. Just my 2 cents.
August 3, 2017 at 11:55 am #17873
Just so you know, there is a split between federal circuits regarding the constitutionality of residency restrictions. The 5th circuit ruled it was constitutional for a Texas municipality to banish registered people not on probation and not on parole from 99% of the city. The attorney very soon will be filing an appeal to the supreme court.
August 16, 2017 at 11:09 pm #19058
who removes from list
My husband located this: FIRST DECISION/STATEMENT APPLYING THE MUNIZ DECISION IN THE PA SUPREME COURT!!! No need to read it all this Judge is against the decision of Muniz, but the last paragraph says it all. Muniz is law and must be applied to Leroy Spann.
IN THE SUPREME COURT OF PENNSYLVANIA
PENNSYLVANIA BOARD OF
PROBATION AND PAROLE AND
PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE,
No. 71 MAP 2016
Appeal from the Order of the
Commonwealth Court at No. 728 MD
2012 dated June 9, 2016.
JUSTICE MUNDY FILED: August 16, 2017
I agree that in light of this Court’s recent decision in Commonwealth v. Muniz,
___ A.3d ___, 2017 WL 3173066 (Pa. July 19, 2017), the Commonwealth Court erred in
rejecting Appellant’s argument that SORNA is an ex post facto law.1
However, if I were
writing on a blank slate, I would conclude that SORNA does not violate the Ex Post
Facto Clauses of the Federal and Pennsylvania Constitutions.
I have previously expressed my views in this area in Commonwealth v. Perez, 97
A.3d 747 (Pa. Super. 2014). Therein, the Superior Court balanced the factors
articulated under Kennedy v. Mendoza-Martinez, 372 U.S. 144 (1963). The panel
concluded that SORNA’s requirement that an offender appear physically in person to
regularly update his or her information was “an affirmative restraint,” weighing in favor of
I did not participate in Muniz, which was argued with Commonwealth v. Gilbert, 48
MAP 2016, a case in which I participated on the Superior Court.
concluding SORNA was punitive, and therefore an ex post facto law. Perez, 97 A.3d at
754. However, the court also concluded that the other six factors did not weigh in favor
of concluding SORNA was punitive. See id. 754-58. Balancing these factors, Perez
concluded that SORNA was not punitive, and therefore not an ex post facto law under
the Federal Constitution.2
Id. at 758-59.
I continue to believe that Perez was correctly decided and struck the proper
balance under controlling cases from the Supreme Court of the United States. I
therefore disagree with Muniz’s conclusion that SORNA violates the Ex Post Facto
Clause of the Federal Constitution. Even assuming that Muniz’s federal constitutional
analysis was correct, its analysis should have properly ended there, since any claim
under the Pennsylvania Constitution is moot. See generally Pap’s A.M. v. City of Erie,
719 A.2d 273, 281 n.12 (Pa. 1998) (concluding that since a local ordinance violated the
First Amendment of the Federal Constitution, there was no need to consider whether
the ordinance also violated the Pennsylvania Constitution), rev’d, 529 U.S. 277 (2000).
Since the Court decided to reach that argument, I agree with Justice Wecht that the Ex
Post Facto Clause of the Pennsylvania Constitution does not provide higher protections
than its federal counterpart. See Muniz, 2017 WL 3173066, at *26-33 (Wecht, J.,
Although I disagree with Muniz’s conclusions, they are now the law of this
Commonwealth. As such, they must be applied in a meaningful way. No sensible
reading of Muniz would permit the Commonwealth Court’s contrary judgment to stand. I
The panel did not address Perez’s claim under the Pennsylvania Constitution, due to
his failure to conduct an analysis pursuant to Commonwealth v. Edmunds, 586 A.2d
887 (Pa. 1991) in his brief. See Perez, 97 A.3d at 759-60.
therefore join the Court’s order in this case, because it correctly applies Muniz and
reverses the Commonwealth Court’s order in this regard.
August 30, 2017 at 12:24 am #19990
I feel that the supreme court made their decision and no one should be able to change that. Our four father has made the rules long time ago and who are we to challenge or change their rules. I am very sorry for Adam Walsh that He , wife lost their child but life goes on I’m not saying it in mean way and truly sorry for them both. I was only a child when his son became missing I can remember it because it was in the 80’s , it really hit home for me because my parents used to always say don’t go around that corner , because you can get hurt or anything can happen to you. I’m not trying to give a lecture to anyone but that seem mean to me because I have lost family member and everything I did not want to see people get hurt or killed but everyone feels different from other. I’m going to stop here I feel that I said enough but I will leave with this every human being has or have lost a love one and I’m quiet sure you are not the first , will not be the last.
December 31, 2017 at 2:37 pm #30565
Leroy S Mahoney
Your husband is right because I am being remove from the website as of the 28th day of December, 2017 ,upon remand from the supreme court no 71 map 2016 of August 16, 2017 Order, petitioner Leroy Spann’s (petitioner) application for Mandamus relief is hereby granted. Accordingly, the Pennsylvania State Police is hereby directed to remove petitioner’ name from the sexual offender registry.
September 9, 2017 at 9:44 pm #20973
District Attorney Freed has been nominated to become the Middle District Pa U.S. Attorney.
What does this mean for the above action?
September 9, 2017 at 9:48 pm #20976
Robin Vander WallAdmin
It’s hard to say. Probably nothing. The petition is presumably already submitted. It’s highly unlikely that Freed’s replacement would withdraw the petition. Can’t imagine any good legal reason to do that…and certainly not any good political ones.
October 18, 2017 at 12:55 am #24563
Freed didn’t file, the senior assistant DA did, Charles John Volkert
September 11, 2017 at 6:13 pm #21104
October 18, 2017 at 12:55 am #24562
I think we need to find out why some so called people on our side seem to have apathy for any forward progress and lack of input for someone trying file a writ to get relief that they are due now? They will say oh theres nothing you can do all the way up until the PA house comes out with an all new spick and span bill that they know won’t pass muster as freed likes to say, then they will say off sorry well just have to wait and see. It seems to me some are trying to keep us out of the loop.
Why are there no attorneys recommend, on hear or any other forum, that can file for the ones that are due relief now? Why is no one talking about it? Just being coy and nudging everyone to wait and see what happens.
File a writ ASAP don’t wait don’t be patient.
We need a group with our interest at heart, not a, we well decide whats best, forum, because they don’t.
I haven’t seen one post from someone that has filed a writ on any forum. I wonder why that is?
I spoke with Reeds attorney Sam Stetton, I will be meeting him this week. He said that a writ of mandamus is in order, there is no stay on reed, and the courts have to use president, they have numerous cases coming down every week siting Muniz and Reed.
If anyone has info on a writ going in for relief post it I will be updating on my case.
November 26, 2017 at 11:16 am #27976
I have filed Mandamus and summary judgement request @ 463 MD 2017 in the Commonwealth Court in Harrisburg, Pa. You can find my actions in line with what you are saying. I stop posting because many were not understanding my intentions and there were haters so I just closed my ears and filed Pro Se.
The PSP has until Dec 19, 2017 to respond to my brief.. . . . . Muniz is not the only case one can win on. DA Freed office seems to think that when the PASC gave advisory opinion that it was ruling on a federal question of Ex Post Facto. . . . . They were not – they only ruled on the Pa. Constitution Article 1 Section 17 and added dicta on the Federal opinion that U.S. Constitution Article 1 Section 10 says the same thing.
The Pa. Constitution and the U.S. Constitution same the same thing about Ex Post Facto Laws. The Muniz case never leaned on the U.S Constitution as its only independent source. The Freed legal team thinks it has a chase to attack Muniz on a Federal question of Ex Post Facto……….. IT WILL BE DENIED A HEARING[.]
September 30, 2017 at 6:36 pm #22721
WoW the heavy hitters are in and up to bat – The game has begun – The SCOTUS will empire the closing rule. . . . .
PA SC 6-1 will not be touched – The SCOTUS will deny Certiorari review and let the matter develop in case fight with Michigan and the Six Circuit in ((Snyder)) issues and lay to rest the SORNA problems. It will fall in favor of the SO’s rights to get on with their life’s – – – – – – – –
October 2, 2017 at 8:15 pm #22877
Do you know when PA is next up to SCOTUS?
Getting very anxious sense the Michigan had an outstanding win.
October 2, 2017 at 8:27 pm #22879
I am sorry to tell you this, but it will be awhile. I don’t think PA even submitted their petition to the Supreme Court yet. They have 90 days to do that. Then the other party has 90 days to respond. Then the Supreme Court has to schedule it for a conference and decide if they want to grant cert. or not. It will not be until sometime in early 2018 if we are lucky.
The Michigan petition was submitted to the Supreme Court in November 2016, almost a year ago. It had been a long and frustrating wait. We thought we would have an order for it last May before they took summer recess, but they decided to ask for the Solicitor General’s opinion and we had to wait until Fall for them to decide if they would take it or not. You will likely see a similar time frame with the PA case.
The outlook is positive for PA, but we have to patient.
October 2, 2017 at 9:36 pm #22886
And I thought it was going to be this week wow. Yea I’ve been doing this sense 2002, was hoping for something to happen good for PA. it’s been a long and frustrating battle of harassment not only from coworkers but some of the state police make comments every few times I have done my updates, I had to contact HR for a place a worked at because someone wanted to harm me, luckily the company knew about my background and recognized my work ethic, if it weren’t for that and making that company a lot of money I would have been fired, the person who did background checks skimped on a few people and I got hired. Nobody would have found out about me until my previous employer whom worked with a few of my coworkers and even worked for that company before had his girlfriend tip them off about me. The owner called me and the manager to his office and integrated me and I was 100% honest so they decided to keep me based on my work ethic. Patients is one of my best virtues but maybe moving to another state like Michigan or one of the 6 th circuit states.
I know there doing investigations on SO’s in PA hope they don’t start falsely accusing or planting stuff on people.
October 3, 2017 at 9:58 am #22905
I think someone has been circulating some incorrect information. I noticed a lot of people were thinking something was going to happen with PA on the Supreme Court level this week. I don’t know where it was coming from, but as far as I can tell, there is nothing scheduled for the PA case at this time.
PA’s S.O. laws are some of the harshest I have heard of. I wish I could tell you it will be turned off tomorrow. Nobody should have to go through this.
October 3, 2017 at 12:26 pm #22913
@Fred Keymaster it may have been improper information or just my lack of understanding what’s going on. But yes I though pa was going to be on court this week for whatever reason. As far as I know PA Supreme courts have ruled pa ruling for anyone post 12/20/2012 punitive dut to the Muniz case. So looking forward to next year I guess. I have to keep thinking positive and PA has called it punitive so god willing something good happens for us.
October 7, 2017 at 7:57 pm #23340
Brain – You don’t have to wait it all out if you get a layer and pay 5,000 dollars for a Writ of Mandamus against the PSP under the state rights of the Pennsylvania Constitution Article 1 sections 1 and 17 Your wait will be over
The closest Commonwealth Court Judge can fix your sex offender night mare quickly . . . .
The wait is for the PSP to action in accordance with MUNIZ – decision to get through all the checks of the docket flow of the high courts. . . . . it took Michigan from November 2016 until 2 October 2017 almost a year . . . . . .
Pennsylvania will take about the same – if you want to wait it out for the PSP to be forced to respect the Law. . . . . .
You can PRO-Se (DYI) do it your self file a mandamus in court. If you don’t know or understand court rules it will be an up hill fight but you will get a win in the end. . . . . .
October 18, 2017 at 2:02 am #24566
I hope they do try and plant some stuff. You can only kick a dog so much. We need to realize that some of the people acting like they want to help really are trying to keep us contained. The subconscious is a strong force, they are not even aware of it. Look at alcoholics and the people that are around them it’s called co dependency, just be aware of this when you decide to just wait to see what happens.
Questions, There are 4000 plus people due relief now, and all this talk about everything but a way for people getting off reg now, There are dozens of cases based off Muniz and Reed president that have got relief. Why are we to just wait? Why are people not finding ways to help those due relief file with the court to get it now? Think about it.
October 3, 2017 at 8:13 am #22902
I just want to thank NARSOL FOR YOUR HARD WORK. EVERY INCH IS A MILE. THANK YOU FOR MICHIGAN AND SO FAR WHERE WE STAND IN PA. HOPE TO SEE MORE STATES REALEASING SO’s FROM THERE CHAINS. AGAIN THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR EFFORTS.
October 18, 2017 at 12:27 am #24559
I’m sorry, but actually they have until Nov 16th, not 90 days. The Muniz and Reed cases can still be used as precedence. More cases from Pa SC were given relief this week until they decided to overrule the PA SC, a writ of mandamus can go thru. The only thing this stay is doing is giving the PSP an excuse to keep people on reg and keeping Muniz from having the record sent to the lower court. There is no stay on REED, don’t fall for the banana in the tail pipe trick If you have the funds file ASAP.
October 17, 2017 at 11:40 am #24441
Looks like Freed waited for the last min to file with SCOTUS He filed on Friday and the PA Supreme Court Prothonotary said they received a call to ask that they wait to hear from SCOTUS Now PSP will drag their feet longer and we will have to sue
October 17, 2017 at 11:42 am #24446
Robin Vander WallAdmin
As long as the petition is pending, the PA Supreme Court is not going to lift the stay. Nothing is going to happen. Any suits filed will simply get parked. This is a waiting game. Freed did what most attorneys would do, he filed when it was absolutely necessary.
October 18, 2017 at 12:14 am #24557
Not talking about Muniz, talking about civil action. The PA SC has been still citing Muniz and Reed for relief on cases even this week. Muniz and Reed also can be used as precedence until it is overruled or denied. If denied no problem then.
December 31, 2017 at 3:46 pm #30570
Leroy S Mahoney
I feel that the people who work for the megan law think that they are helping the society but they are not. I think they put people at a higher risk than helping them. I can say for myself that people have recognize me from the website and frighten me more than they were, I don’t think that’s right because I could have been shot or anything and they say they are protecting society what about the person who has completed his sentence and turn his life around , doing what he suppose to do and some menace come up takes his life that saw this person on the website who going to be accountable for the act that taken place . I know the person who committed the crime but is going to jail what about megan law with all the other BS are they going to be suspect in a crime.