You are here

AWA Loses in Pennsylvania’s Highest Court

By Larry Neely . . . What follows was composed utilizing portions of an analysis written by Aaron Marcus of the Defender Association of Philadelphia. We will endeavor to answer some of the most common questions that arise after a favorable decision has been handed down.

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court held that the current (2012) version of Pennsylvania’s Sex Offender Registration and Notification Act, hereinafter referenced as “SORNA,” is punishment and cannot be applied retroactively. See Commonwealth v. Muniz

The challenge was brought by Jose M. Muniz who was convicted in 2007 of indecent assault of a minor in violation of 18 Pa.C.S. § 3126(a)(7). Sentencing was scheduled for May 8, 2007; however, Mr. Muniz failed to appear. Had he appeared, he would have been ordered to register as a sex offender with the Pennsylvania State Police for a period of ten (10) years pursuant to Megan’s Law III (SORNA’s Predecessor), which was the statutory scheme in effect at that time. During his absence from the state, the Pennsylvania General Assembly passed SORNA, which greatly expanded the duration of registration and obligations imposed on those subject to sex offender registration. When Mr. Muniz was finally sentenced, the current version was in effect, and he was classified as a lifetime registrant. He challenged SORNA, asserting that the law was punitive and cannot apply retroactively. After years of litigation, five justices on the state’s high court agreed.The Court declared that SORNA’s registration provisions constitute punishment under Article 1, Section 17 of the Pennsylvania Constitution — Pennsylvania’s Ex Post Facto Clause. The Court held:

  • SORNA’s registration provisions constitute punishment notwithstanding the General Assembly’s identification of the provisions as nonpunitive;
  • retroactive application of SORNA’s registration provisions violates the federal ex post facto clause; and
  • retroactive application of SORNA’s registration provisions also violates the ex post facto clause of the Pennsylvania Constitution.

This decision is a significant departure from prior Pennsylvania decisions as well as the Supreme Court’s decision in Smith v. Doe, 538 U.S. 84 (2003). The reasoning of the justices to get to this result is a little convoluted because several in the majority did not believe that the court needed to address the federal constitutional claim. Complicating the opinion slightly is how the five justices reached this single conclusion. Three justices concluded that SORNA is punitive under the federal Constitution’s Ex Post Facto Clause. They applied the United Supreme Court’s 7-prong test established in Kennedy v. Mendoza-Martinez, 372 U.S. 144 (1963), which was the framework relied upon in Smith v. Doe. The three justices held that despite the Legislature’s expressed intent that SORNA be civil and non-punitive, the law imposes too many restrictions on individual liberty by requiring that registrants report in-person, potentially hundreds of times, and is too akin to historical punishments such as shaming and probation. Additionally, the court found that because SORNA imposes severe consequences on those “who in fact do not pose the type of risk to the community that the General Assembly sought to guard against” and includes “those convicted of offenses that do not specifically relate to a sexual act,” the law is excessive and over-inclusive. Thus, SORNA is “punishment” and cannot constitutionally be applied retroactively.

Those same three justices also concluded that although the same test is applied under Pennsylvania law, Pennsylvania’s ex post facto provision is broader and provides greater protection than the federal clause, thus ensuring that SORNA’s retroactive application independently violates state law as well.

Two justices concurred in the result and in much of the lead opinion’s reasoning but got there in slightly different ways. Two justices concluded that there was no reason to render a decision under the federal Constitution and believed that the same result could be obtained under the state Constitution exclusively. The likely effect of the decision is that the registration terms of thousands of registrants across Pennsylvania (whose periods of registration increased dramatically on the date SORNA took effect) may be returned to their original terms. This means that hundreds could suddenly find that they have completed their original registration terms and will now be removed from Pennsylvania’s registry altogether.

This is a big win for registrants, and when combined with the Sixth Circuit’s analysis in Does v. Snyder, 834 F.3d 696 (6th Cir. 2016), there is an unambiguous message to legislators that they cannot continue: (1) adding more and more restrictions within their registration schemes; and (2) increasing periods of registration at will. We caution everyone not to become too giddy because the court did not find that registration, in and of itself, is unconstitutional; rather, they found the 2012 version unconstitutional as applied to Mr. Muniz. And the Court’s ruling does not address whether SORNA is punitive as applied prospectively because Mr. Muniz did not have legal standing to assert that claim. It is noteworthy that since the highest court in PA has now found that SORNA is punishment, that may open the door to new challenges whether the current scheme can continue to be enforced prospectively.

 

This topic contains 187 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Chuck 1 hour, 58 minutes ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #24644 Reply

    Brian

    (Awaiting moderation)

  • #24608 Reply

    Anonymous

    @Adam @Chuck
    …Thank you for the updated info!

    What I find disappointing (and yes, I will say it again…) is the lack of RSO’s supportive community organizations from Attorney/Law Scholars/LEO Professionals. (I get it, they seldom work for free even if a matter is of ethical/moral/Constitutional importance)

    My opinion: By now, a date should have been set/arranged with supporting entities like NARSOL at the forefront, some great “free” Constitution/ethics/morals believing lawyers (yes, they are out there!), ACLU and supporting politicians (but very doubtful they would for it would still currently be political suicide to them) to gather peacefully outside PA PSP @ 1800 Elmerton Ave. Harrisburg, Pa 17110 or the appropriate Harrisburg Court House with all PA RSO’s possible present to file whatever needs to be filed under whatever name these legal cartel people want to use and demand that they enforce the PA SC Muñiz decision en masse. Together as many of us as possible!!! Overwhelm the hell out of them! Get the news involved so people can see the lies they have been spoon fed thru bogus statistics and how “they” (our so called public servants) do not want to follow the law and that only the heavens knows what else do they not follow, will they not follow, and do or will manipulate in the future!!! I would applaud and support such peaceful/rightful gathering.
    *But such gathering it is not going to happen*

    What is it now Chuck, 2019 sometime?…
    By then my fire to want to do something to make a difference and be involved and learn laws and organize will have extinguish. I will no longer care. I will no longer want to know more on the subject nor, will I want memories of it.

    I have tried and done the best I could with all the limitation imposed on me, financial, legal, health and otherwise. Best of luck to everyone! …and again, thank you to all genuinely involved & caring enough! -Peace to all and Freedom where such applies-

    • #24640 Reply

      Chuck

      @Anom

      You have to understand until the appeals process is complete there is no decision to follow. Just like if we had lost, we would be able to legion for review as well. Once Pa has exhausted all of their appeals and if the decision still stands, then we will be able to demand we be removed. Untill then, Commonwealth vs Muniz never happened as far as they are concerned.
      I DO NOT THINK SCOTUS will hear their case. I could be WRONG!!! However, it is just my personal opinion that SCOTUS will not hear their case. It is just a matter of given everyone a chance to speak before they make a decision. Which is only fair. This is the beginning of the end for the registry and they know it. They are going to squeeze every day they can out of it.

      • #24645 Reply

        Anonymous

        (Awaiting moderation)

  • #24611 Reply

    Brian

    Oh sorry I guess I should add my conviction date was I 97 and moved to Pa and was orders to begin registratering in 02,

  • #24609 Reply

    Brian

    @Chuck and Adam
    Thanks for the update that’s lowers the stress level a little bit, so I supose we will be waiting another year to two years before we are release or sue again I supose.
    It really sucks because nowhere in my court documents does it say I had to register however it does say that the courts are not recommending that Mr me register as an RSO, they left it up to probation to do that and it was a deferred sentence, also it stated if I failed to fallow probation requirements I would have spent 10 years in he joint. So I never violated I paid all my fines and restitution, did my community service and was ultimately released from my probation, my question is and you probably may or may not know the answer to this but can someone explain why I was required to register for 10 years and then AWA kicked in and I had to tack on another 10 or so years? Thanks for any answers?

    • #24622 Reply

      Anonymous

      @Brian
      …because they are a_ _holes! It is plain, simple and clear as day Brian!
      …and because the RSO’s community permits this disgrace!
      … We have been scared into submission to accept it. That is why they keep playing games, by passing/violating the Constitution and adding punishments and/or making laws retroactive and immediate while taking their time when they are found wrong. In the meanwhile, attorneys are making record profits $$$ on this new finding while none are in easy sight (if at all) offering their services Pro Bono to help the ones that deserve the help. It will n-e-v-e-r end! They will always need a b-o-g-e-y-m-a-n or the “Elites” will be out of work and/or political points to rule with an Iron Fist! Wake up!!!
      *heck, even the LGBT Community stood up and won in States & Federal* -my respect to them that deserve it-

  • #24577 Reply

    Adam

    I sent Mr. Freed an email this evening asking if he could shed light on if he has indeed petitioned SCOTUS. I will be sure to post if I receive any reply.

    • #24597 Reply

      Chuck

      I also asked them assuming the ruling stands(either by an denial of review or decision) how long would it take to remove people. They said they expect further challenges to the registry IF the decision stand as is therefore they do NOt expect searching for people to be removed will be a priority. They estimate 6-12 months at least. So assuming they decide to hear the case and make a favorable ruling for us, the decision would likely come down June of 2019 with another 6 months to search after that. So Christmas of 2019 IF they decide to HEAR the case.
      I asked why not search for people while waiting for a decision so you would be ready to go. They said until the ruling is final, there is no reason to do a search in the PSP’s mind. Interesting!!

    • #24594 Reply

      Chuck

      To All

      I just got off the phone with the Megans Law Section of the PSP in Harrisburg. They confirmed while the petition of review is pending they will NOT be proceeding with the removal of RSOS. Everything is on hold untill we hear whether or not SCOTUS is going to hear the case. If they decide to hear the case, PSP will continue to NOT remove RSOS.
      I asked if the PSP had a sense of timing of when we could expect a decision on the petition of review. They said they definitely feel it will be next year before we hear anything concernig the decision on the Petition and if they decide to hear the case, it won’t be untill next term (2018-2019 Term) more likely than not.

      Over all this is good news, because we will be able to see every deadline and every extension to a deadline.We be in the dark as far as what is going on.
      So as I have stressed,they told me to make sure everyone continues to REGISTER…
      This morning at 4am I tried to download the petition but it wasn’t ready to be viewed yet. Also, the SCOTUS official website will most likely be updated first. Just scroll to the bottom, click on dicey search and enter in the docket number.
      Ok Guys, we are in good shape to stay informed now.

  • #24485 Reply

    Anonymous

    @Brian
    …and that is my point (as you probably figured out), they (many not all) do those things!

    Here is another one:
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/17/married-teacher-and-mom-32-busted-after-lewd-videos-show-threesome-sex-and-partying-in-panties-with-teen-boy-students.html

    …now how does she gets $150,000 to make bail is beyond my knowledge or understanding when a male would have been placed behind bars with no bail or with bail so high as to not be payable (or per the 8th amendment of the U.S. Constitution -excessive-)! And, do you think she will get the same treatment/sentence outcome if any, as men/males? Of course not! (but the law is equal & does not discriminate/see colors, genders yada yada…) But no sexism against males, oh no Sir; How dare I even imply such!

    Also, No I have not heard (me at least) anything about SCOTUS, AG Freed, PA SC or NARSOL Staff with any updated news developments. I personally do not expect an official statement from any PA Official at this stage of their game with our lives until next month earliest if at all. The wait/suspense/uncertainty has me so stressed the heck out that my body muscles/nerves has been internally in pain for some time and I have no insurance to see a doctor because, are you ready for it!?, I can not keep a job long enough to ever have it due to this registry! And will rather drop unconscious than go to an ER. The post treatment ER bill will do me away for good for sure! …Lol 🙂

    …plus no one except you or me seems to be writing much on the forums/comments lately. Oh well!

    • #24575 Reply

      Chuck

      TO ALL:
      Mr. David Freed DID FILE a petition for review. The docket number is 17-575. Mr. Muniz legal team has until November 16, 2017 to respond. Most likely extensions will be asked for and granted from both sides.
      We are in it now folks!!! Just a matter of letting the process unfold. It will be AT LEAST several weeks before we hear anything. I would almost bet Pa is going to drag their feet by asking for extension after extension.

    • #24538 Reply

      Brian

      @ Anonymous
      You right about that one if it was a man/male there would be no bail or end in site, he would be tormented for years, the school teacher women who had sex with there students people are like awesome, and then it’s never talked about again.
      Yea people have moved on I guess with their lives instead of hanging out on NARSOL, I am just waiting for good news and glad I can talk to other people that are in the same or similar situation as I am.

  • #24469 Reply

    Brian

    Anyone heard anything on scotus decision yet?

    • #24487 Reply

      Chuck

      @ Brian

      It is very important to remember we are NOT waiting on SCOTUS. We are waiting on David Freed. We are waiting to see if he filled a petition for review. If he did, it will be weeks before we get a decision from SCOTUS on whether they will hear the case.

      If he didn’t file, then it’s all over and we have to wait for the PSP to start and finish their search.

      • #24539 Reply

        Mark

        @Chuck. How will we know if we be freed or we have to wait months. PSP should not have to take that long. Everyone sentenced before Dec12 2012 is no longer required to register. I can not believe that they don’t already know who has to be removed. If their database cannot pull that up by date then it is too antiquated to be used in law enforcement. So as I write this there is only two hours left in Tuesday the 17th of October. I should awake not having to deal with PSP any longer about this. I got the sense during my last registration visit that they know things will be changing soon. The trooper was kinda rough in his questioning. The end is near. Oh how would we know if Freed did file late tonight?

        • #24568 Reply

          Chuck

          @Mark

          You have to realize they have to find everyone who is affected. Then they have to get permission to alter your file. They can’t just alter your file becuase they have to receive permission from the higher ups. Then once they know everyone who is affected, they have to mail you a letter. IMPORTANT: until you get a letter CONTINUE your registration. DO NOT LISTEN to ANYONE… I don’t care what their title is. Until you get a letter, nothing matters.

        • #24553 Reply

          Chuck

          @Mark

          Assuming Mr. Freed did file, It MIGhT take a day or two to see the petition on the SCOTUS website. I plan on calling the Megans Law section in Harrisburg tomorrow. I will def post what they say. I don’t expect them to know everything simply because it takes time for the higher ups to push the paperwork . Once everything shakes out, and if the ruling stands, I expect PSP to take 5-6 months to push everything through

      • #24535 Reply

        Brian

        @Chuck
        Do you think it will be viewable on the SCOTUSBLOG?
        Thank you for taking the time in replying much appreciated.

        • #24541 Reply

          Chuck

          F@ Brian,
          First, we don’t know IF he filed a petition for review. Assuming he did, it MIGHT take a day or so for the clerk to process it. I expect to know something no later than Friday as far as did Mr Freed file a petition or not. If he did, going to take weeks for them to decide whether or not they are going to hear the case or not.

        • #24537 Reply

          Robin
          Keymaster

          If the Snyder petition serves as a guide, it may be a few days before SCOTUSBlog has any record of a petition being filed. The volume of petitions coming into the Court is quite high. For faster acknowledgment that a petition was filed, one might be better served by contacting Mr. Freed’s office directly. Who knows, perhaps they will confirm or deny. Worth a shot.

  • #24453 Reply

    Anonymous

    Here, another one out of the many happening somewhere (reported or not) everyday in every State & territories.

    NYPD Cop Exposed Himself To Pre-Teen Girls, Police Say

    https://patch.com/new-york/new-york-city/cop-exposed-himself-pre-teen-girls-nypd-says

    …but…but…but… They (law enforcement officers, politicians, judges) wouldn’t do that!
    *looks the other way*

    • #24476 Reply

      Brian

      @ Anonymous
      Wow police don’t do that kind of thing, I don’t even know what to say about that, their supposed to protect and serve not do that stuff!!!!!!!

  • #24226 Reply

    Anonymous

    Hi to everyone & blessings!

    @Chuck on your reply/question on October 13, 2017 at 8:54 pm
    …because as you pointed out about “the public’s mind” such articles are sexually related crime in nature and automatically, more often than not, thought of by “the public’s mind” as there being more under these people’s veil or deep in their lives revolving and/or leading to children being harm or involved. Then leading often to “the public’s mind” that there is more…there has to be more…there is always more! Come on, with all do respect, you should know this! It is obvious for anyone that has endured this life sentence of punishment! Do not misunderstand, I am glad to answer your question (if genuine) as I would anyone, but I honestly do not know if you were asking just to get a reaction out of me.

    @Mark on your reply/question on October 14, 2017 at 12:38 pm
    …listen, I at this stage of my life do not trust anything coming out of/created by lawmakers/legislators. I have seen/experienced myself how laws are made and adjusted to serve the purpose of the rich, powerful and whoever fits the “Agenda”. No law of man is absolute. They all have the potential to be changed and/or applied as the “whoever is born in/voted/selected/given charge” deems fit. To try to answer (again, to try!) your question I would “think” that the closing time for Freed’s filing would be at close of government business hours. Problem is; Is there an uniform closing hour accepted by all States and D.C.? Wouldn’t different time zones conflict? Thus such thing exists to begin with? So, to play it safe, you should consider closing time to be 11:59pm October 17! But again, with these crooks (I apologize, well meaning Officials), that can be altered somehow and be OK and lawful and Constitutional and yada yada yada.

    @Brian
    I read that you have been answered your questions by others. (for the most part as possible)
    Thank you. I did take a few days away from the internet news articles or Newspapers. I went away to connect with nature a bit. I feel a little better (a lot more than I was weeks ago for sure).
    I do not personally know you, but I feel with you (and/or anyone else that has) on your experience at work, with “co-workers” or Bosses, communities, “friends” (if there is such) or even family. The negative experiences should have never happened and much less the way they may have. We took responsibility for our actions, wherever they may have been, we paid according to law and what was given as punishment (slaps on the wrists included for some), we should have been able to move on with our lives and be productive (not as if many of us weren’t already!) and have peace from persecution. Our “Government Officials” failed us (but favored others, albeit for political aspirations & personal gain/status in “some” cases and our “laws” of the land/man did not protect us. As it should have, sadly. But, such is life! (human life at least) Maybe is different in Mars! …Lol 🙂

    • #24303 Reply

      Brian

      @ Anonymous
      Thank you for such kind words, you seam very genuine. Yea that was the hardest thing to do was change due to the drug use and whatnot. I haven’t used any drug or alcohol for 18 years that’s the whole reason I ever got into any kind of trouble to begin with, it altered my perception and abuility to make proper decision and altered my abuility to see through peoples lies and deceit. Nature is an awesome thing, my wife and I used to walk alongside this creak a couple times a week when we first meat, we don’t walk much anymore but part of life is change and with change comes many things as you know, good and bad we really can’t control a lot of it but what we can do should be done for the better.
      Well good luck to us all tomorrow!!!!

  • #24227 Reply

    Anonymous

    @Brian
    …I am also made happy to read that you gave up that awful previous life (even if profitable & prestigious) that leads to utmost certain loss of freedom or worst outcomes. Glad you “adjusted” your tune. Good for you and all that love You! Take care.

  • #24118 Reply

    Brian

    Soooo stupid question, what happens iffreed doesn’t file the appeal?
    Is everything automatically denied then?

    • #24153 Reply

      Chuck

      If Freed decides not to file, it is over. I can’t see him just allowing thousands of RSO’S just walk. However, maybe He will realize he is beat and just go with the flow. We will see. If they do ask for review, I can’t wait to read their petition. It will be interesting how they deal with Snyder v. doe.

    • #24155 Reply

      Chuck

      What we have to remember is that they are upset about the people they have to release but this decision is ALOT bigger than that. The whole point why the registry has passed constitutional scrutiny in the past is because the registry was not punishment, therefore, our constitutional rights against ex-post facto laws and cruel and unusual punishment didn’t apply. With this ruling that changes EVERYTHING. If this ruling stands within 3-5 years the registry in Pa will be found to be unconstitutional. The General Assembly could try to “fix” the registry but that fix would only apply going forward but backward. That is what the public is so up in arms about. They believe because sex crimes against kids are so bad, you do not have rights. Unfortunately, for them, this is not how the law works.
      We will look back at 2017 in a few years and say this was the year that broke the registry. If you let someone out of prison, they have a right to pick up the pieces and move on with their lives. You can’t punish someone forever if you let them out and they are finished with parole.

    • #24120 Reply

      Robin
      Keymaster

      First, he’s not filing an appeal. He’s filing a request, a petition for review. The Supreme Court isn’t compelled to hear the case. In answer to your question, if he fails to file the petition by the deadline, then there are no further options to seek a higher review of the PA Supreme Court’s decision. However, there is still the stay to consider.

      • #24127 Reply

        Brian

        @Roben Keymaster
        Thank you for clarifying my question, So this would be ( Right of certiorari) ?
        Exactly how long does a stay last for or are there different lengths in with they last.
        Also if SCOTUS decides not accept the cert why would they allow a stay?
        I apologize for my lack of legal knowledge

        • #24152 Reply

          Chuck

          If SCOTUS denies Cert, IT IS OVER!!!!! Just have to wait for PSP to do its search and process the letters.

  • #24092 Reply

    Mark

    @Chuck, Terry Brunson, Anonymous:

    Ok since the 17th is fast approaching, what time of day does the Writ need to be filed by, End of Business or Midnight of the 18th? My wife and I are both curious? Thanks

  • #24060 Reply

    Brian

    Well it sure would be nice for the court to get a move on or I should sayFreed, God willing things will go in out faver, it seams like it should be anyway, all I know is when we’re all eventually off this list I really just want to go off the grid so if they try and make some kind of other schem to bring everyone back to the registry which will still be illegal they won’t be able to find me because I will be out in the middle of nowhere where no one knows where I am. But then again I may just move far away from my current town where no one knows me and get a fresh start with a somewhat clean slate just not a clean background. Just day dreaming I guess.
    Ya know it’s funny sometimes when people find out about my profile but not really in a funny way they walk around thinking that I don’t know that they know, and they start making stupid comments about sex offenders and pediphilia, they are so uneducated and ignorant on the whole topic, sometimes if you ignore them and act like you have no idea what or who they are referring to they sometimes will stop, and then there are the ones who want to push the issue kind of like when the guy at the place I used to work at wanted to start trouble with me, I know how to defend myself because I grew up in a town riddled with gangs and what not, you couldn’t walk down the street wearing certain colors or wearing you hat a certain way or you could possibly be shot and killed, My friends / gang affiliates would have a split second decision to run or stand our ground and get beaten or sometimes wine depending if we were out numbered. But nowadays I am a different pereson, I’m not that person anymore, so if I were to defend myself Im afraid would be considered violent and put in a different class I’m afraid, I have self control nowadays and the great virtue of patience yet I am impatiently waiting to get off this list of shaming.

  • #23924 Reply

    Anonymous

    Yeap! All this attention is surely not going to help our case/cause/arguments… Please, be prepared (if you aren’t already) to accept the reality that this registry(ies) ploy to keep people in shackles (physical & mental, maybe even spiritual) by utilizing fear mongering as an excuse or reason will never go away! It is clearly (to me at least) that it is part of the ultimate plan for total control of the populace.
    ***Save it! I know, I already have my tin foil hat on in place***

    https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/kate-beckinsale-alleges-harvey-weinstein-141038401.html

    https://www.yahoo.com/celebrity/james-van-der-beek-reveals-063703723.html

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/anthony-bourdain-rips-hillary-clinton-034719679.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/bill_cosby/index.html

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/15/us/jerry-sandusky-son-pleads-guilty/index.html

    …and a lot more news stuff/garbage at a Local, State, Federal level and International too if you care to research it! It is…just…overwhelming! 🙁 Oh well, right!!?

    (please forgive me, just not a positive day for me with all these “sexual scandals’ ” news and more possible War with World tensions so high…we humans just can not seem to get along anywhere)

    Anyhow regardless of my tough day, I wish you all an Outstanding day! 🙂
    …and thank you NARSOL for what you do for me and many by presenting the truth and fighting for the rights (Constitutional and otherwise) of all! 🙂

    • #24040 Reply

      Chuck

      My Personal fight with “Megan’s Law” started June of 2010. It has been a long LONG 7 years. I have met people who don’t care I am on the registry and think the registry is illegal . I have also met people who would come into my work, and demand my boss fire me simply because I am on the registry. My boss refused. He said “Everyonr who isn’t locked up deserves a chance to move on .”
      Since being on the registry I have started college and will be graduating with my BS in Accounting in just about 18 months. Getting off the registry is the first step in applying for a pardon to get my felony removed, so I can sit for the CPA Exam.
      My point being this,: Everyone deserves the right to move on with the lives and to rebuild or even improve their life regardless of what happened or didn’t happen.
      Do you know what is the hardest part about being on the registry. Every time you meet someone new you have to explain what happened. Otherwise, they think you were hiding it from them. No I wasn’t hiding anything, I just to do point/ counterpoint about my past while I am at work. I lost a 15 years career because of the stigma that comes with “you are a sex offender”

      I so can’t wait to put all this behind me and start a different life. I just want to be a productive citizen just like everyone else

    • #24042 Reply

      Chuck

      @Anom
      Why would this news hurt??? The registry is all about “child molesters” in the public’s mind…..

    • #23957 Reply

      Brian

      @ Anonymous
      I know what you mean with the news with Sandusky and that new case with the rich guy,
      I remember the first Sandusky case arose that was a very stressful time, everyone was talking about it and the place I was employed with at the time knew of my background and just constantly cracked Sandusky jokes. It just makes the situation at hand like getting lemon juice in you eye, very uncomfortable and only in hopes that the media relaxes a lot of bit, I know once they real something in like this it’s like a boa constrictors, it just won’t let go till it’s dead. But just know they it will calm down my man. I guess the best thing is to stay away from the news for a while, it’s always negative 98% of the time the other 2% is the weather😑

  • #23899 Reply

    Anonymous

    In case anyone is wondering what the individual that caused harm to Megan Kanka is up to. This person was the main reason used to green-light/create the registry!
    http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2015/02/nj_appeals_court_rejects_latest_attempt_by_jesse_t.html

  • #23888 Reply

    Anonymous

    @Mark
    Thank you for your sharing of gun crime registry news!
    Here take a look:
    “Adam John Walsh (November 14, 1974 – July 27, 1981) was an American boy who was abducted from a Sears department store at the Hollywood Mall in Hollywood, Florida, on July 27, 1981. His severed head was found two weeks later in a drainage canal alongside Florida’s Turnpike in rural St. Lucie County, Florida. His death earned national publicity. His story was made into the 1983 television film Adam, seen by 38 million people in its original airing.[2] His father, John Walsh, became an advocate for victims of violent crimes and was the host of the television program America’s Most Wanted.[3]

    Convicted serial killer Ottis Toole confessed to Adam’s murder, but was never convicted for this specific crime due to loss of evidence and a recanted confession. Toole died in prison of liver failure on September 15, 1996.[4] Although no new evidence has come forth, on December 16, 2008, police announced that the Walsh case was closed as they were satisfied that Toole was the murderer.”

    For years I have known that the supposed killer was not even a “convicted sex offender”, but that did not stop John Walsh from going on a vendetta against RSO’s, starting TV Shows racking up fortunes while becoming a household name synonymous with “tough on predators”. Sadly but also Ironically…
    “On the afternoon of July 27, 1981, Revé, Adam’s mother, took him shopping with her to the Hollywood (“Sears”) Mall in Hollywood, Florida (26°00′46″N 80°10′30″W). They went together to the Sears store and entered via the north entrance.[5] Revé intended to inquire about a lamp which was on sale, and left Adam at a kiosk with Atari 2600 video games on display where several other boys were taking turns playing games. Revé completed her business in the lamp department at approximately 12:15 pm.[5][6] She said that she returned to find that Adam and the other boys had disappeared. A store manager informed her that a scuffle had broken out over whose turn it was at the kiosk and a security guard demanded that they leave the store. The security guard asked the older ones if their parents were there, and they said that they were not.[7] It was later conjectured by Adam’s parents that he was too shy to speak to the security guard, who presumed that he was in the company of the other boys, and as such the security guard made him leave by the same door that they did (which was the Sears west entrance). His parents believe that after the other boys dispersed, Adam was left alone outside the store, at an exit unfamiliar to him.[7][8] Meanwhile, unable to find Adam in the toy department, Revé had Adam paged over the Sears public address system and continued to look for him throughout the store. She by coincidence ran into Adam’s grandmother Jean inside the store, who helped her search for her son. After more than 90 minutes of fruitless searching and public address pages which failed to turn up Adam, she called the Hollywood Police at 1:55 pm.[5]”
    …were the parents ever charge with negligence on their part? Child endangerment? Were they criticized by the masses as unfit to be parents?

    Also, did you know that John Walsh (Adam’s celebrity dad) was dating Adam’s mother (John’s wife) while she was under age?…
    “In his book Tears of Rage, Walsh openly admits being in a relationship with 16-year-old Revé when Walsh was in his early 20s and aware of the age of consent being 17 in New York.[20] Critics of Adam Walsh Act have pointed out that, had he been convicted, Walsh himself would be subject to sex offender registration under the law which he aggressively promoted.”
    …huh, was he ever arrested for it? No. I even know of and seen a video that was circulating years ago where someone had confronted/interviewed him about him (John Walsh) dating an underage girl (which later became his wife, I am aware of this!) and he responded very cocky about it!
    …here I found said video!

    How about his open views…(never mind what is in his head; I do not even want to know!) about RSO’s…
    “John Walsh generated a great deal of controversy during a summer press tour in 2006 when he stated to the media he jokingly told senators to implant “exploding” chips in the anuses of sex offenders. He stated, “I said implant it in their anus and if they go outside the radius, explode it, that would send a big message.” Walsh stated this was a “joke,” but that “nobody thought it was funny.”[17] Walsh later suggested implanting GPS chips in such criminals.[18]

    John Walsh also faced criticism when he advised women to never hire a male babysitter, which was seen as a blatantly sexist remark. “It’s not a witch hunt,” he said. “It’s all about minimizing risks. What dog is more likely to bite and hurt you? A Doberman, not a poodle. Who’s more likely to molest a child? A male.”[19]”
    …but that is “somehow, thru connection I guess” not considered a threat nor, is it considered intent to harm, conspiracy to harm, intent to conspire to commit harm or mentally unstable! (after all, he did loose a loved one, and much closer to his mind Adam, his son)

    And last, but not least read this:
    Some critics accuse Walsh of creating predator panic by using his publicity.[21] Walsh was heard by Congress on February 2, 1983, where he gave an unsourced claim of 50,000 abducted and 1.5 million missing children annually. He testified that the U.S. is “littered with mutilated, decapitated, raped, strangled children”,[22] when in fact, later Department of Justice study from 1999 found only 115 incidences of stereotypical kidnappings perpetrated by strangers, of which about 50 resulted in death or child not being found.[23] Critics claim that Adam Walsh Child Resource Center, which started without funding in 1981, generated 1.5 million dollars annually following his testimony before the Congress.[22] In fiscal year ending 2015, Walsh’s private charity, National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, received income from the following sources:

    Contributions, Gifts & Grants $7,810,614
    Federated Campaigns $157,239
    Fundraising Events $2,257,837
    Government Grants $31,886,730

    for a total of $42,112,420. Compensation of the CEO, John Ryan, was $442,924 or over 1% of expenses. [24]

    …but no charges of deceit, perjury or intent to commit such, charges for creating a public panic or contributing to Inducing panic (when a person causes the evacuation of any public place, or otherwise cause serious public inconvenience or alarm) nor was his private charity investigated (to the best of public knowledge).

    @Chuck
    “I saw the typo but it is still the 17th. I added it up right just made a typo writing it out.”
    …we all make mistakes! (Lol in sympathy)

    @Brian
    …you are correct in your assessment! Any other crime, even murder (non-sexually related) is more easily overlooked and/or forgiven than sexually related crimes or “sex offenders” as we are labeled. People have been conditioned to associate sex offenses as automatic child molesters, rapist and sickos without remorse and always waiting and ready to strike. That perception could not be further from the truth, but nobody cares to give a RSO a chance. I do not fret for their ignorance as much as for their choice to stay ignorant.

    Also; You are welcome! I am glad to know that “my time” is appreciated. 🙂

    (I should have gone to school and/or gotten a job to be a researcher! …If only I would have known the internet would exist…I also would have bought Google IPO shares)

    Good night to everyone! I refuse to be on very late tonight.

    • #23928 Reply

      Brian

      @ Anonymous
      Wow I had no idea those comments were ever made like putting explosive devices up people you know what and they explode if the go out of there restricted area, that is not even human if you ask me, of corse the guy who killer his kid was inhuman, as well the the one who killed Megan, Those types of (individuals ) as in singular persons, have some real problems, those people need to be locked away, not me not you just them, their the people that need the counseling and the gps and shit like that excuse my language but that’s not me and never will be me, people that think that way and do things like that are demonic.
      We’re not that, that’s what they want people to think we are and that makes me so angry!!!!!!!!

  • #23846 Reply

    Mark

    Everyone
    Well someone finally came up with another registry. http://www.ydr.com/story/news/2017/10/10/gun-offender-registry-moving-forward-delaware/751960001/ Looks like our neighbor to the southeast is thinking about this. Sound familiar??

    Oh btw, Chuck July has 31 days, not 32 so the last day for Freed to file is the 18th. other than that, thank you for your analysis.

    • #23853 Reply

      Chuck

      I saw the typo but it is still the 17th. I added it up right just made a typo writing it out.

    • #23850 Reply

      Brian

      @Mark
      Well even if they do make registries like that it will be nothing like the SO registries, they won’t face the same bs that we do, if they made a drug dealer registery their friends would be like oh your so cool but if you were an SO then you probably wouldn’t have a whole lot of friends. I don’t know maybe it will be like the SO registr.
      I am fortunate to have a big family who are all supportive to me, not to get off topic though, would a gun registry really keep people safe, my answer would be probably no safer then the SO registry keeps people, registries don’t work and a gun registry? They would not even care one would think but I could’ve be very wrong.

      • #23854 Reply

        Mark

        @Brian
        That’s my point exactly! Have the existing laws made anyone safer? No! Just like the SO registries made people safer.
        The original idea was a kneejerk reaction to a poor little girl getting murdered. AWA was championed by the father of one of those poor kids who ran into a SO. I almost hate to ask it but, exactly how much money has he made on his family tragedy? I digress, as it has been stated here many times, The registry solves nothing!
        Impatiently waiting for this horror to end.

  • #23844 Reply

    Brian

    @ Everyone
    I just wanted to take a minute to stop and say thank you to everyone for all of the information, it is very much appreciated, for taking the time out of your day, night , morning to lead me to the correct places to find the information I need.
    God bless everyone and your families, may we all have peace soon!!!!! 🌞

  • #23813 Reply

    Anonymous

    Good morning to everyone!
    I read this article and thought others would find it informative. This Professor is “Rational” about the reality confronting RSO’s and the laws that bind everyone involved. Please, look to the right side (currently) of the Website/Blog. Notice the amount of bills introduced that are fear mongering! Great way to score political points with voters huh! Do all these public servants really care for public safety and the lives of all…yes, all? I wonder…(but do know that many would say and always think that all convicted of any crime should not be integrated or permitted with “regular/law abiding” society. Yeap, because they do not make mistakes! (or get caught, or tricked, or set-up, or blackmailed; They are just perfect).
    Thank you NARSOL for the article!

    Professor Catherine Carpenter: The unconstitutionality of sex offense laws

  • #23752 Reply

    Anonymous

    @fred Keymaster @Robin Keymaster @Chuck
    Thank you all for the kind responses and knowledge! I am grateful!
    Also, I take responsibility for my interpretation of the dates Oct.17 or 19, 2017 involving previous posts by terry brunson here on this NARSOL article https://narsol.org/2017/07/pas-high-court-rules-retroactive-sorna-violates-constitution/#post-23668. It was never stated directly (by brunson or anyone) that was the end of this fight, but I concluded, in my ignorance and of my own accord, that date range I kept reading about would be the end of oppression for many of us in the Muñiz ruling. I apologize for any and all confusion to anyone on my part and for my part alone!

    @Dave C
    I understand your frustration!

    @Brian
    I appreciate your encouragement, I really do!
    I read you went to the SCOTUS Blog. As soon as anyone gets to the site there is information posted on the main page which, I am sure you read or noticed already. So, I went browsing and selected Petitions on the top area of the website and got a bunch of cases, but no Muñiz. As stated by @Robin Keymaster, “You can’t find it until it’s searchable” so, I interpret it as there will not be anything until there is a filing or something to post (I apologize in advance in I am understanding incorrectly).
    Here: http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/petitions-were-watching/

    Also, I checked @fred Keymaster link: https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docket.aspx
    I browsed for you and everyone the Order List by Circuit for Tuesday, October 10, 2017 (our Circuit 3)
    “The United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit (in case citations, 3d Cir.) is a federal court with appellate jurisdiction over the district courts for the following districts:

    District of Delaware
    District of New Jersey
    Eastern District of Pennsylvania
    Middle District of Pennsylvania
    Western District of Pennsylvania”

    https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/ordersbycircuit/ordercasebycircuit/101017OrderCasesByCircuit
    Circuit 3
    17-235 (16-1393) 17-272 (16-3398)
    17-317 (16-4152) 17-5407 (16-3152)
    17-5415 (17-1490) 17-5430 (16-3119)
    17-5499 (16-3085) 17-5513 (16-2629)
    17-5520 (16-3860) 17-5640 (16-4127)
    17-5847 (16-2684)

    @Brian, you can type or copy and paste the first 5 or 6 digits for each order not in parenthesis and place it on the search (no spaces needed), hit enter or click search and you should get a case selection with basic info and options or files to view the case. I checked all above and saw no Dave Freed, AG or PSP or PA Supreme Court Muñiz. I hope this helps! I am mentally exhausted from my day and this researching stuff. I am going to try to get some sleep (not an easy task for the past nearly 15 years). Good night to everyone! 🙂

  • #23679 Reply

    Dave C

    Could someone please explain to me where we stand at this point?

    It doesn’t sound like we will ever get off this registry. The state and PSP can keep throwing up roadblocks forever.
    It sounds like no state official will even follow their own laws. It doesn’t make much sense to me that a PA Supreme Court makes a ruling then says don’t worry about following it. Can the legislature keep changing the laws forever?

    • #23695 Reply

      Chuck

      @ Dave

      By US Supreme Court rules a party has 90 days from a lower court’s decision to file a request for review. The Pa Supreme Court made their decision on July 19th. Ninety days from that date is October 17th. That is the last day Pa can ask the Supreme Court for review.
      On September 5th Pa asked the Pa Supreme Court for a stay (put the ruling on hold) while they decide whether or not to file a request to the Supreme Court. The stay expires on October 17th.

      On Oct 2 the US Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal from Michigan about the very same issue. The case was Michigan Snyder vs Doe.
      We are just waiting to see if David Freed will file an appeal. Right after the decision, David Freed said he was going to appeal, however this was before the US Supreme Court decides to deny review in Snyder vs Doe.
      So no one knows if he will appeal.

    • #23684 Reply

      Fred
      Keymaster

      My opinion is the end is in sight for this case. I would say give it another 6 months to a year to see it denied or decided by SCOTUS.

      • #23696 Reply

        Brian

        Can someone please tell me where to find information on what’s going on with SCOTUS and into on what freed is up to. I looked on SCOTUS BLOG bot I don’t know where to look or what to enter to find out information, thanks to anyone that can help.

        • #23718 Reply

          Chuck

          Nothing has been filed with the Court yet. DA David Freed has to decide whether or not it’s worth his time and his department’s (Cumberland County District Attorney) money to file a request for the US Supreme Court to hear their case. He has to either file by October 17th, and yes that includes the 17th, or forfeit the right to request a review by the Supreme Court.
          It’s just a waiting game now. Ether He will file and we will have a petition to read, or he will decline to seek an appeal, and they will start moving forward with removing people.
          We are in the home stretch guys…..I would bet within 12 months all this will be over….

        • #23713 Reply

          Robin
          Keymaster

          Our best resource for finding out about cases pending before the Supreme Court is SCOTUSBlog. They’re pretty good about getting stuff up as quickly as they can. If there is nothing there regarding the Muniz case, that very likely means that the petition has not been filed yet. You can’t find it until it’s searchable. You’ll go crazy trying to. I learned this during the Packingham case.

          But didn’t Freed just recently get appointed to a state judgeship? If so, then he’s no longer the person driving the petition. Who replaced him as acting DA?

        • #23725 Reply

          Chuck

          David Freed was nominated. Congress has not approved him yet. He is still here in Cumberland County. I live in Cumberland County.

        • #23721 Reply

          Chuck

          Robin,
          Please do s google search before you spread misinformation. David Freed was appointed to become our US Attorney for the Midddle District of Pa.

        • #23726 Reply

          Robin
          Keymaster

          Pardon me, Chuck. I was not spreading information. I was asking a question. I appreciate your answer, though you could have been a great deal more diplomatic in its presentation. It is not polite to instruct people to do things….at least not where I’m from.

        • #23807 Reply

          Chuck

          I am sorry if I upset you. Please forgive me. I was just trying to convey that accurately portraying the facts is very important when we are talking about legal issues. Once again, I am sorry. I am glad we are all on the same team here.

          I have many friends that can clearly understand why the registry is wrong. Then I have other friends with the view point, “ once you have been convicted, I don’t care what happens to you, you don’t have any rights”

          Well unfortunately for their argument that is not what the constitution says. It also doesn’t Everyone has equal protection EXCEPT RSO’s.

          I read the Packinghsm opinion and listened to the oral argument. It was refreshing to hear the Supreme Court recognize that you can’t just say “we can do whatever we want, becuase RSO’s don’t matter”

        • #23780 Reply

          Chuck

          Everyone is so stressed becuase they have been waiting for this decision since day one. I understand that. I personally have a lot at stake here. The difference between being on the registry another 8 years or getting off now. Big difference.
          I think we have to remember how important this decision is as a whole. This decision is the beginning of the end of Megans Law. Since day one, it has been the State’s argument that Megans Law requirements are NOT criminal but civil in nature. This is the ENTIRE reason Megan’s Law could not be attacked on constituonal grounds.
          It is one thing for a Court to say something, but they something that is in direct conflict with what the Supreme Court said in Smith vs Doe, AND then the Supreme Court refuses to correct them, as they did in the Michigan Snyder vs Doe case. That is a BIG FREAKING DEAL.
          For over 2 decades Megans Law was under NO threat of being thrown out, and now it looks like it’s days are numbered…
          All I have to say is the State did it to themselves. First they wanted the registry for law enforcement only. Then oh no we have to make it public. Then we have to make it retroactive. Then, we have to put non sex crimes on there as well. They did it to themselves

  • #23667 Reply

    Anonymous

    …I have not posted in a few days, but have chosen not to post as I/we wait for October 19 or 17 or whatever it keeps changing to for the SCOTUS to accept or deny AG Freed appeal/Writ of Certiorari. Now I keep hearing/reading that there is a “stay” issued (by the PA Supreme Court, if I understood correctly) so, now there is more time to wait (6 weeks from what I hear) while these supposed servants, but definitely violators of the Constitution and Oath of Office (therefore, criminals of the highest order) are afforded time for some “legislative fix” that may affect many if not all of the supposed 4,500 to 10,000 RSO’s that should have been given relief upon the conclusion of our own State Supreme Court and that of 5 other States when “they” had no problems making everything retroactive and immediate and there is no major march known or planned on Capitol Hill on this issue or legal proceeding (lawsuits) against the State of PA and every official violating the law and our rights? (Rhetorical question! I get it, it would “slow” down the process of this victory under Muñiz “further”) And we are supposed to wait!!!…more???

    …plus there have been people calling the PSP (the PA body of law enforcement competent for some things and not others) and have gotten nothing, but run around and empty answers to what they know is not only morally, ethically right, but also lawfully right. Add to that all this hearsay about PSP taking 12-18 months to look into removing any RSO’s (if any at all) and that we not even get letters on this issue until “sometime 2018” with specific months being spoken of by Officials and RSO’s all over the place!!! …As in nobody knows or seems to care!!! …and then some wonder why many lose sight of greener pastures or “hope” in this Country/World’s system of treating Humans (at least the peaceful ones) and have no desire to connect further with life. To those that feel that way, I do not condone and will not applaud harm to anyone, ever, period! But I understand you! For almost 15 years, I understand you!

    And this is only a fight at State level for our right to “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness” as residents of PA. If we leave PA to do that elsewhere we are subject to another State’s SORNA laws because apparently (and clearly to me) nothing is uniform and/or consistent. How is that OK? …and add to that the “International Megan’s Law” not many seem to talk about or be even aware of brewing in “Countries near you” and being worked on as part of the Master Plan of control over our lives, what we do, where we do it, who we do it with and ultimately, over people’s lives with criminal record or not! Wake up!!! (to those that are not yet, awaken). RSO’s are subject to notifications & requirements to that as well! …somehow!!! How many of you know what the requirements are currently with overseas travel? Passports? Do you care?

    Again, as I keep asking for…where are the Pro Bono “free” lawyers, the Law Scholars, Professors of Constitution and Human Rights Advocates at en masse on these issues??? (NARSOL excluded)

    I am sorry to say, but it can not just be NARSOL!

    • #23741 Reply

      Chuck

      I would like to address something. A party who wants the Supreme Court to review a lower court’s decision has 90 days to ask the court to do so.

      So if we use basic math skills we can figure this out. The Muniz decision was handed down on July 19th 2017.

      July 20th-32st was 12 days

      August 1-31 was another 31 days

      September was another 30 days

      So we add those number up we get 73 days

      90 days minus 73 days equals 17

      So this means we use up the first 17 days of October NOT 19. It is NOT the 17 th or the 19th or whatever….

      There is an EXACT DATE…, This DOES NOT mean we will have a decision on the 17 th… it merely means that IF Pa does NOT file by the 17th, they lose their right to do so. THATs IT. That is all it means.

      It is VERY TYPICALLY for lawyers to wait till the very last day to file…….. in fact I would be SHOCKED if Pa did file before the 17th.

    • #23693 Reply

      Chuck

      @Anom

      SCOTUS is NOT going to make a decision this month. Pa has until October 17th to FILE a request for review, but it will take several weeks to get a decision. Unless Pa decides NOT to file, this won’t be over for a while

    • #23697 Reply

      Brian

      @ Anonymous
      I’m not even sure what’s going on with the stay or appeals and whatnot, I feel slightly in the dark because I can’t seam to find updated information, I google search and it only shows previously posted from June, July , but not even September or October.
      Hey just keep you head up and try to stay positive, we’re all in this together and we’re all frustrated about this entire ordeal.

      • #23742 Reply

        Chuck

        @Brian
        Here is the link to the Pa Supreme Court’s decision. If you go through the case, you could also probably find the Stay order as well. I was going to look for it for you but I got busy.

        http://www.pacourts.us/assets/opinions/Supreme/out/J-121B-2016oajc%20-%2010317692521317667.pdf

      • #23720 Reply

        Chuck

        Guys,
        You are all freaking out for no reason. David Freed has NOT made a final decision yet. Until he files his petition there is NOTHING to find. Take s deep breath guys. I want off just like you guys do. We will.Remember NOTHING will be final for a while…..
        It is VERY TYPICAL for lawyers to wait till the very last second to file…. Then once he files the Public Defender who argues the case has to file his response. Then David Freed has to file his response to the response. Then, SCOtUS has to have a conference. It takes time guys. Look st it this way, what a GREAT Christmas gift it would be to have Pa’s petition DENIED!!

      • #23715 Reply

        Robin
        Keymaster

        You’re not going to find anything until something is filed. Right now, there is nothing to find.

    • #23698 Reply

      Chuck

      There is a Stay from the Pa Supreme Court But it expires on October 17th. The 6 week’s everyone is talking about is the time it would take the uS Supreme Court to decide whether or not to hear a case. However, even if Pa decides not to appeal it is going to take time for PSP to search and contact everyone affected. Plus you have to realize their priority are the ones in prison that might need released now.
      Be patient guys, even if the Supreme Court decides to hear the case, we would have a decision BEFORE they took their Summer Break. So the end of June at the LATEST for a final ruling. It may be sooner

    • #23676 Reply

      Robin
      Keymaster

      Very few attorneys work for free. And even those who do must balance the time they spend on cases such as this one against legal work that actually pays their bills. Hundreds of hours go into the prosecution of constitutional claims. And, as we all know, time is money.

      Stays are legitimate tools of judicial discretion. Nobody is abandoning a constitutional duty by granting a requested stay. Stays are common whenever there is such a great amount of commotion likely to occur to one or more parties to an action in a setting where there is no finality. And here, because of the pending petition before the Supreme Court, there is no finality, just yet. The idea that the PA Supreme Court will continue the stay long enough for the PA Legislature to “fix” the law is dubious on its face. If this happens, it will be an awfully generous courtesy from one branch to another. If there is precedence for that having happened in the past concerning some other judicial opinion by the PA Supreme Court, I’d like to know about it.

      I have read a couple of times in these comments about the U.S. Supreme Court having until such and such time to do this or that. This is not the case. The Supreme Court imposes deadlines on the parties and controversies placed before it, but it doesn’t place inordinate deadlines upon itself except where there is an emergency petition to consider (a death penalty case or a constitutional crisis such as was the case in Bush v. Gore). Theoretically, the nation’s highest Court can take as long as it darn well pleases to decide whether the Muniz petition should or should not be granted. There are petitions that have been relisted for conference multiple times over more than one term (although that is exceptionally rare). So, please dispel from your collective heads any notion that the Supreme Court of the United States is on anyone else’s clock but its own.

      • #23680 Reply

        Fred
        Keymaster

        I have yet to see any sign that the Muniz case is even on the Supreme Court’s docket, much less scheduled for a conference. How anyone came to the conclusion that this would all be decided in 9 short days is beyond me.

        Anyone who wants to watch this case, you can search the Supreme Court’s docket here https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docket.aspx . The Muniz case should be listed soon and eventually scheduled for a conference. Then you will have a date to look forward to.

        • #23709 Reply

          Chuck

          @fred….
          You are misreading the comments. NO ONE is saying it will be decided by the 17th. Da Freed has until the 17th to FILE. a request for the US Supreme Court to hear the case. IF DA Freed filed an request, it will take weeks for the US Supreme Court to decided whyhere to HEAR the case NOT decide it.

          The ONLY WAY this case gets decided on the 17th is if PA voluntary decided NOT to petition the US Supreme Court…. even then it would take SEVERAL MONTHS to process everyone

        • #23714 Reply

          Fred
          Keymaster

          “NO ONE” Are you sure about that?
          I have been following these comments for a couple weeks Chuck. More than a couple people are under the impression that the Supreme Court has until the 19th to deny or accept this case. If you scroll up a few comments, you will see a perfect example of that.

          I think you misread my comment. Try again. By decide, I merely meant decide if they will grant cert or not. Weeks? Try months, Maybe a year.

        • #23735 Reply

          Chuck

          Every since the 2003 smith vs Doe case, it has been the law of the land that Megan’s Law requirement are NOT punishment therefore CAN BE appilied retroactively…., Michigan’s Snyder vs Doe CHANGED that. For the very first time, a federal Court ruled “Hey, You can’t change things after the fact” The US Supreme Court had a PERFECT shot to defend their Smith vs Doe decision by agreeing to hear the Michigan vs Doe case. That was a CLEAR signal!!!!! I guarantee you David Freed was waiting to see if SCOTUS was going to hear the case. I bet if they would have, he would if asked to join the case.

          So now the ONLY thing David Freed could argue is that Pa’s case is DIFFERENT than the Michigan’s Snyder vs Doe case.

          So the only question there is for the SCOTUS to settle is, is the Pa case different than the Michigan case. Due to the State question raised in the Pa case, it may be…..

          I would like to address everyone here. Everybody is upset and wants off the registry RIGHT NOW… I am in the SAME BOAT as all of you. I am a RSO just like you guys. I have been on before AWA so this Court ruling and Commonwealth vs Neiman personally affects me as well….

          It will be ok guys. We won. Yes Pa is going to Drag their feet. Yes, it is going to take time to process all the changes. The Supreme Court may hear the case and say the Pa Supreme Court was wrong, but after the Michigan Snyder vs Doe case, I do not THINK they will hear the case. Now, I could be WRONG as I am NOT a lawyer and I am not on the US Supreme Court.
          You also have to remember, If this Court ruling stands, that means there is grounds to challenge Adam Walsh in its entirety. The next few years PSP is going to be VERY BUSY defending the registry.

        • #23737 Reply

          Chuck

          @ Fred
          No NOT to decided whether to hear the case. October 17 th is the deadline to FILE the request. The deadline is for Pa NOT the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court could take 59 years to decide if it wanted to. However the average is about 6 weeks. Some cases take longer, some shorter. It depends on when the person was filed, how quickly opposing counsel got their reply brief in, and how busy the conference schedule is. It takes time

          After the Michigan Snyder vs. Doe case, we do not know what is going to happen. When this ruling first came out, I felt there was NO WAY it was going to stand. Now, after Michigan Snyder vs Doe, anything could happen.. what they are gonna to argue is Pa’s case raises questions the Michigan case did not. Which is true. The Pa case dealt with the Federal Wuestion AND the State Question.( involved the Federal and State Constitutions respectively)

        • #23740 Reply

          Fred
          Keymaster

          You are still misreading, if you think I am suggesting otherwise.

  • #23479 Reply

    Brian

    Thanks Daniel, you would think I would know all of this information about how these laws are applied, I guess that’s why they have gotten away with this for so long. It’s people like you Chuck and a few others on here that know their stuff. It’s really messed up that they are just going to most likely drag their feet with this, peoples lives are affected by this garbage and yea you can sue but then you will be waiting another two plus years. Do you think that people could send the psp their information telling the you were a ten year or your time was up at got brought back because of the AWA?

    • #23533 Reply

      Chuck

      They will ONLY honor their records. If they didn’t find it in their system it might as well be written on toilet paper. They don’t care PERIOD!!! Nothing we can do but bide our time.
      They want people to think “oh I don’t have to register anymore and stop regeistrating. Then, BAM, they got you for failure to register because untill they say it in a letter mailed to you, the court cases never happened.
      It’s one of those things Thales forever to start but once they get the hall rolling then they will get the letters mailed out quickly. However, you can bet your bottom dollar, they are going to delay delay delay, until they HAVE TO START!!!

      • #23583 Reply

        Mark

        @Chuck
        I agree that PSP will drag their feet in applying the court ruling for as long as they can. Too bad the court won’t take it upon itself to see if their ruling is enforced after all appeals are exhausted. It took PSP 5 month to apply the ruling referenced here, https://narsol.org/2016/08/4053/. This ruling got my registration lowered from lifetime to tier ll. It was for 10 yrs.
        Another thing, if you go to Megan’s law website it has the date of your first registration there. In my case Mar. 26, 2007. So what your saying is that my removal will not be until Mar. 26, 2018?
        If someone who is affected by this ruling did just fail to comply, would not the ruling in itself be the defense? After all, could not the records of PSP be subpoenaed as the paper trail to prove the original registration period as well as the transcript of the sentencing? I realize it would be a mess for the person involved, but would it not provoke action on PSP’s part, as it would make them state in court why they are not following a ruling of the court. Or am I just thinking incorrectly?
        Well enough of my musings.

        • #23662 Reply

          Chuck

          @Mark

          The last time you will show up for an annual registration will be 2017, BUT you will be required to Update your info until March 2018.

        • #23663 Reply

          Chuck

          @Mark you are required to follow PSP interpretation of the registry. Until they give you that official letter you are required to follow the last letter they gave you…. The courts would probably null and void an arrest like you described BUT it would take time and all that time you will be in jail. Best just to follow and let them hand you the official letter

  • #23448 Reply

    Brian

    @Chuck
    So if he becomes governor some day he still won’t be able to change what the PA SUPREME COURT decides or SCOTUS if they get that far correct? Also at this point in the process wouldn’t everything be at a halt?Freed noted to the SUPREME court that 10000 registrants are under investigation for being non compliant and not registering and doesn’t want those people to get away, I have looked at several zip codes on the psp wedsite and I see one or two people with the word obsconed next to there profile, if there are 10000 people wouldn’t you think there would be a lot more like that? Do you think this is another scare tactic to get the courts to have accepted his apeals?

    • #23466 Reply

      Daniel

      No, he won’t be able to change it when he becomes Governor. David Freed is trying to show the Court that you cannot just let these people go. That is what they are upset about. Not so much about the retroactive thing, it’s that the General Assembly messed up and now there is no Megans Law to put people on who can’t be assigned to AWA.
      What they are going to argue is that the Court can’t possibly mean it is ok to let all these offenders go!!! However, Given the Michigan case, I don’t see what they could argue. Look for them to DRAG their feet in “searching for affected offenders”.
      Oh well, anything to keep their registry going.

    • #23467 Reply

      Chuck

      I agree with Daniel.

  • #23398 Reply

    Brian

    @Chuck
    So you think Freed isn’t going to appeal at all now because of the SNYDER case just to hold everything up like a pouting child, and that would take 6 weeks,

    • #23434 Reply

      Chuck

      You guys want o to hear something funny? When Commonwealth vs Muniz came down from the Pa Supreme Court, guess where I was? I was at PSP doing my annual registration!!!!

    • #23408 Reply

      Chuck

      @ Brian,
      David Freed has been nominated to be our next U.S. Attorney General (For the Middle District of PA). He wants to be Governor someday. He has to put on a show for the electorate. No way is he or any other elected official in Pa going to take the blame for these decisions. However, after Michigan’s Snyder vs Doe it is pretty cut and dry. The only reasons to file an appeal now is to be able to say “What could we do? We appealed all the way to the Supreme Court!!! Don’t blame us”. Also, every day that they are waiting to hear from the US Supreme Court, that is one more day they can continue the registry for those convicted PRIOR to 12/202012.
      If they do decide not to appeal, they are going to drag their feet. After all, why not? If you don’t like it, you can sue us and we will see you in 2 years!!! Once it all shakes out either due to being denied by the US Supreme Court, or they deciding not to appeal, I expect them to take AT LEAST 6 months to search for offenders!!! If you don’t like it, sue us!!! We got all day, every day .

  • #23306 Reply

    Brian

    @Chuck
    I didn’t mean to repost what you said I copied and pasted so I could read and respond I meant to delete and send the bottom portion at any rate.
    So the next question is is PA filing an appeal on October 17 then? Thanks

    • #23342 Reply

      Chuck

      @Brian

      The last I heard DA David Freed was planning to appeal. However, this was before the US Supreme Court refused to hear the Michigan Snyder vs. Doe case. Considering that case came to the same conclusion and the US Supreme Court declined to correct it, It would be foolhardy to make the same argument.
      What I think is going to happen, and I have no proof, I think they are going to wait till the very last second and then cry Uncle. Then, drag their feet in “searching for offenders that are affected” The Michigan case specifically cited the 2003 US Supreme Court decision in Smith vs Doe no longer appilied and they refused to correct the lower court.
      This is the EXACT case and argument Pa would of pointed to. Now they have nothing.

    • #23343 Reply

      Chuck

      In Packinghouse vs North Carolina Justice Kennendy said the Internet isn’t the same as it once was. Meaning a decision concerning the Internet say in 2003 could not stand today in 2017. This VERY Important because Justice Kennnendy wrote the majority opinion in 2003 Smith vs Doe that said Megan’s Law was non punitive.
      In Michigan Snynder vs Doe the US Supreme Court had their chance to affirm their 2003 ruling and they refused to. Of importance, 3 of the justices that were on the court in 2003 are still on the court. 2 out of this 3 , voted against SO’s in the 2003 decision.
      I think the Court is trying to tell us that their 2003 Smithvvs Doe decision no longer appilies.
      They had every opportunity to correct the 6th Circuit and they chose not to.
      It would be a waste of the taxpayers money for Pa to make the same argument.
      The only reason I see them appealing now is to just delay the inevitable that much longer. It will probably take the Supreme Court up to 6 week’s to reject Pa’s petition. That is 6 more weeks they do not have to let anyone off.

  • #23260 Reply

    Brian

    @ Anonymous
    Thank you for the case info on Neiman, I don’t know how I missed this case, and also wander why the psp kept on going and didn’t take people off the list. Just bs.

    • #23318 Reply

      Mark

      So if I understand this correctly, there will not be a Megan’s law for psp to put people who were convicted prior to Dec 2012 after Muniz is upheld due to the Neiman decision. So does that mean that anyone who was convicted prior to AWA enactment should be removed regardless of type of registration ie. 10 yr, lifetime or SVP? I know several people who had their registration changed to lifetime due to AWA from 10 yrs, mine included. Mine was rolled back in February to a tier ll but I would have come off in March anyway due to my original period being 10 yrs before AWA was enacted.

      • #23347 Reply

        Chuck

        Just so that everyone’s knows, if you are required to register for 10 years that means 11 times you have to regeister. Year 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10. A lot of people have thought that the 10th year they didn’t have to ,and they were arrested.

        @Mark my regeistration went from 10 years to 15. My annual regeistration isn’t untill July, but I have a weird feeling they are going to drag into out so I am going to have to do one more annual regeistration. I hope I am wrong.

      • #23346 Reply

        Chuck

        @ Mark
        It is VERY important EVERYONE regardless of conviction date stay compliant UNTILL PSP sends you a letter. UNTILL they give you official word, they WILL arrest you for failure to comply. EVERYONE STAY COMPLIANT!!!

        We have to wait untill Pa has official exhausted all appeals AND has directed the PSP to do a search for affected offenders. Until you get that letter, continue as these court cases do not exist. DO NOT STOP complying until you get a letter from PSP.

      • #23363 Reply

        Daniel

        @Mark
        A common misconception is that if you are required to register for 10 years the 10th year you don’t have to register. That is incorrect. If you were required to register in 2008 for 10years that means you would have to appear at PSP from 2008-2019. That 10th year you still have to show up and update your information.

        • #23401 Reply

          Mark

          @Chuck
          Oh, don’t worry about me not staying compliant. My wife does that for me!! My next scheduled visit it in March of 2018, which is the 11th year as my release from prison was in March of 2007. My sentence date is February of 2004.
          So that begs another question, Which date is it from? Either way, I will not do anything that would jeopardize my freedom at this point. Things for me are going well. I will await the official letter.

        • #23432 Reply

          Chuck

          @ Mark
          your registration starts the first day you show up at PSP. Not the day you see a judge or got out of prison. I knew guys who didn’t know you had to register from your 10th-11th year and they got violated. I love this case that much more because my assistant DA offered me a plea deal with no Megan’s Law and Freed said “Hell NO!!. We were literally 5 minutes away from having a sealed deal when Freed called his Assistant and said I can’t authorize that. Never been arrested a day in my life before the current case.

      • #23345 Reply

        Chuck

        @Mark

        The way it is being read you are correct. Those convicted PRIOR to 12/30/2012 do not have a “Megan’s Law registry” to regeister to. It is very important to understand the SO would have to have ZERO convictions for sex related offenses AFTER 12/20/2012 including failing to register.

    • #23274 Reply

      Chuck

      They kept going because until Commonwealth vs Muniz is was legal to retroactively make someone regeister. What they claimed was everyone was still required to register under AWA. Now that Commeealth vs Muniz debunks that, everyone who was convicted before 12/20/2012 will have to be removed from the registry.

      I have a feeling that the PSP will apply Commonwealth vs Muniz automatically but will refuse to automatically apply Commonwealth vs Neiman. So someone is going to have to sue on behalf of every SO who was convicted before 12/20/2012. They will lose but it will drag it out for several more months.

      • #23281 Reply

        Chuck

        After some further reading, I found out if PSP refuses to apply Commonwealth vs Neiman automatically once Pa is out of appeals for Commonwealth vs Muniz than one could sue for a violation of their civil rights. Not retroactively just from the time Pa is officially out of appeals for Commonwealth vs Muniz on until they got in front of a Judge.
        Hopefully, this will motivate the PSP to just apply both rulings automatically so everyone can move on with their lives. Once we are off, we will come save our brothers forced to register under AWA. For those of you convicted AFTER 12/20/2012, we will not forget you!!!

  • #22919 Reply

    Adam

    I contacted the Megan’s Law offices in Harrisburg this afternoon to see if they had any information regarding when people will start being removed from the list, and was told “our lawyers are still looking it further, but we have been told that we will receive information on how to proceed within the next three weeks.”

    • #23181 Reply

      Chuck

      The Pa Supreme Court issues a stay that expires on the 17th. This is also the last day Pa has to file an appeal with the US Supreme Court. Due to Commonwealth vs Neiman, Pa will not be able to continue the registry for those who are convicted before 12/20/2012. It is VITAL that EVERYONE stay in compliance until you receive official word from PSP. STAY in complaince guys!! We will be free soon enough!!!

      • #23200 Reply

        Brian

        The Pa Supreme Court issues a stay that expires on the 17th. This is also the last day Pa has to file an appeal with the US Supreme Court. Due to Commonwealth vs Neiman, Pa will not be able to continue the registry for those who are convicted before 12/20/2012. It is VITAL that EVERYONE stay in compliance until you receive official word from PSP. STAY in complaince guys!! We will be free. All I know is that there has been a mix of all sorts of miss information and some correct information on here about PA so really not sure. I didn’t even see the Neiman case either, the only case I was aware of still going on was Muniz I will have to do some research. Any idea where to see find info on the Neiman case in PA?

        • #23237 Reply

          Chuck

          Commonwealth vs Neiman can be found on the Pa Supreme Court website. It was decided in 2013.

    • #23155 Reply

      Brian

      Well Freed should be in front of SCOTUS within the next three weeks seeing as his 90 days will be up in that timeline as far as I can tell anyhow. July 19th was the date the PA SUPREME COURT made its ruling, not sure if its 90 business days or just 90 Monday through Sunday I really don’t know, I’m not very legal knowledgeable so if I quote something wrong I apologize for that,

      • #23236 Reply

        Chuck

        The commonwealth C’s Neiman case was decided in 2013. What it said was the previous version of Megans Law (Megans Law III) was unconstitutional because the General Assembly combined 3 separate subjects into a single bill. This violates Pa Constutuon article 3 section 3. It wasn’t considered s big deal because the PSP felt they could still enforce the registry with Adam Walsh Act. Due to Commonwealth vs Muniz they cannot retroactively pubish. So now there is no Megans Law to require restoration for those convicted before 12/20/2012.

      • #23182 Reply

        Chuck

        It is 90 calendar days they have to file. Their last day to file is October 17. However, it could take the SCOTUS 6 week’s to make a decision. Since they just turned down Doe v Snyder it should be an easy decision for them.

    • #22973 Reply

      Brian

      I wander if starting another lawsuit in PA would help maters or do you think the PA SUPREME COURT would just throw it out due to an ongoing case. And why the hell would it take them 3 weeks to figure out that they need to start letting people off the list I mean as soon as it was signed into law everyone got the letter within days, just nonsense. Do you think they are going to let people go sense the mater is with SCOTUS NOW? So many questions

      • #22976 Reply

        Fred
        Keymaster

        Starting another lawsuit in PA on these grounds when there is already a case pending, will only slow things down.
        Pennsylvania was granted a stay on this law about 2 weeks ago. That means they can continue to enforce the law while the Supreme Court considers it. In other words, everything is the same for now.

        • #23081 Reply

          Brian

          @fred Keymaster
          So sense the Snyder vs Doe was denied does that mean only the sixth circuit are the only ones who have to change or alter their laws for SO’s not every state. I understand if I needed to I would be able to use the Snyder vs Doe case as leverage yes? If Freed’s appeal is rejected and sent back to PA then people could use the Muniz case as leverage? No I am not going to start another lawsuit because like you said it will slow things down and cause lots of delays.

        • #23089 Reply

          Fred
          Keymaster

          That is correct, only the states within the 6th circuit must change their laws now. Other states can now use this as leverage in any lawsuits they start on these grounds. If Freed is denied, that will be a win for PA registrants and PA will have exhausted all appealing options on this case and will need to begin making the changes. And yes other states will be able to point to that win as well as the 6th’s ruling.

        • #22977 Reply

          Adam

          Has SCOTUS accepted the case? Is there even a general timeline regarding how long their consideration may take?

        • #22989 Reply

          Brian

          @ Adam
          Don’t quote me on this but I think DA FREED is appealing PA’s decision October 19 I believe , he has 90 days to file and PA made our ruling July 19 GOD willing the say nope don’t want to talk.

  • #22847 Reply

    TXSO4life

    SCOTUS had denied Snyder cert. So now what does this denial mean? There are now many legal variables in question. For once, federal laws adam wash act (sorna) is now applying differently in different circuits and / or states. What is unconstitutional in ones is considered constitutional in others. It is a great day for post sorna registrants within the 6th circuit area, at least for now. Perhaps a new case in other federal circuits should file and cited the DOJ brief in support of the 6th? What distinguished the 6th denial of cert from other bad ruling from other circuits (as mentioned in my other post), is the called of the DOJ opinion from Scotus in the matter. Maybe this denial of cert was more significant than the rest of SO cases because of the DOJ supporting the 6th?

  • #22706 Reply

    Anonymous

    @Brian
    Thank you for that post! I agree with you that recidivism statistics for SOs (registered or not) are some of the most (if not the most) manipulated numbers in all “Crimes” categories. I will share with you an article link I read about & printed in 2007 which sadly, did not even moved politicians as a whole (let alone Law Enforcement Officials) emotionally or on a practical-commonsense or Constitutional basis at the time. I hope the NARSOL moderators permit its posting since it is related to the subject. You and anyone can read all that is there for it is all interesting news & studies.
    The article I specifically speak of is:
    “September 11, 2007 |Report
    No Easy Answers
    Sex Offender Laws in the US”

    https://www.hrw.org/sitesearch/sex%20offender%20us%20recidivism%20report?f%5B0%5D=sm_field_shared_region_country%3Ataxonomy_term%3A9456&f%5B4%5D=ds_created%3A%5B2004-01-01T00%3A00%3A00Z%20TO%202012-12-31T00%3A00%3A00Z%5D

    “MISSION STATEMENT
    Human Rights Watch defends the rights of people worldwide. We scrupulously investigate abuses, expose the facts widely, and pressure those with power to respect rights and secure justice. Human Rights Watch is an independent, international organization that works as part of a vibrant movement to uphold human dignity and advance the cause of human rights for all.

    CORE VALUES – WE ARE:
    COMMITTED TO OUR MISSION OF DEFENDING HUMAN RIGHTS WORLDWIDE. Our work is guided by international human rights and humanitarian law and respect for the dignity of each human being.

    INDEPENDENT. To ensure our independence, we do not accept government funds, directly or indirectly, or support from any private funder that could compromise our objectivity and independence. We do not embrace political causes, are non-partisan, and maintain neutrality in armed conflict.

    FACTUAL, ACCURATE, AND ETHICAL IN OUR FACT-FINDING. We are committed to maintaining high standards of accuracy and fairness, including by seeking out multiple perspectives to develop an in- depth, analytic understanding of events. We recognize a particular responsibility for the victims and witnesses who have shared their experiences with us.”

    -Credit to source: Human Rights Watch-
    Thank you to NARSOL for allowing its posting for informational, educational purposes as permitted by laws.

    • #22726 Reply

      Brian

      I was reading through the SNYDER VS DOE SUPPLEMENTAL BRIEF Because I can’t seem to find The Munis Brief. From what I read SCOTUS knows what’s happening. This is a small portion.
      The court of appeals posited that “recent empirical studies” have cast “significant doubt” on this Court’s acknowledgement in Smith that “[t]he risk of recidi- vism posed by sex offenders is frightening and high.” Pet. App. 24a (quoting Smith v. Doe, 538 U.S. 84, 103 (2003)). The court noted studies purporting to show that sex offenders are “actually less likely to recidivate than other sorts of criminals,” and evidence that “of- fense-based public registration has, at best, no impact on recidivism” and may “actually increase the risk of recidivism[.]” Pet. App. 24a. In other words, the court thought that offense-based registration may harm public safety more than it helps. Indeed, the court as- serted that no record evidence suggested that SORA’s burdens are “counterbalanced by any positive effects,” id. 25a (emphasis added)—not even one. Under this reasoning, all offense-based SORA laws—including the federal SORNA—are in the cross-hairs, not just Michigan’s.

      • #22728 Reply

        Fred
        Keymaster

        By “taken” I assume you mean granted certiorari. That has not happened yet with Snyder v. Does. They have only had conference on it so far. That is where they decide if they will take it or not “granting or denying certiorari”. We hope to have an answer on that Monday when they issue the rest of their orders from the Sept 25th conference. We already won that case, so it will be good if they deny cert.

        If I am thinking of the right case, PA was only just granted a stay last week, right? I would think they are still drafting their petition and haven’t submitted it yet.

  • #22684 Reply

    Brian

    Posted March 10 2017 from a criminal defense attorney.

    There is a misconception out there that people who are registered sex offenders are extremely likely to commit a crime again. This recidivism rate has been touted to be as high as 80 percent. In fact, the Supreme Court of the United States cited this statistic in a 2002 case that involved the many restrictions placed on sex offenders.

    And yet, this statistic is staggeringly incorrect. The United States Department of Justice followed every released sex offender in 15 states for three years following a 1994 release. They found that the recidivism rate was only 3.5 percent. The most restricted and watched individuals with a criminal past in our system have an extremely low recidivism rate. And yet, this misconception haunts the sex offender jurisprudence, continuing to oppress these people who are just trying to get their lives back on track.

    Sex offenders aren’t allowed to live in certain areas. They aren’t allowed to go to certain places. They have to register themselves and follow every protocol and rule “to a T” in order to protect themselves from further criminal punishment. They may have to wear GPS trackers. These people are highly restricted and monitored.

    Here’s an example of the issues we are talking about here: a 21-year-old in 2002 was charged with having consensual sex with an underage girl he was dating. He served two years of probation, and then had to register as a sex offender. He then was charged with criminal conduct a decade later — for using social media to discuss a parking ticket. This happened in North Carolina, where the law states that it is a felony for a registered sex offender to use “commercial social networking website that the person ‘knows’ does not restrict usage to legal adults.”

    This is too extreme and limiting, and though he may have violated the literal word of the law, the 21-year-old certainly didn’t violate the spirit of the law.

  • #22625 Reply

    Brian

    Found this random artical from 3 days ago, I think unregistered citizens are seeing clear as day now what exactly is going on. Can you say light at the end of the tunnel is not a train. Maybe some day SORNA will be snuffed out, who knows.

    Today, we know that the S*x Offender Registries (SORs) are not really for public safety, protecting children, or any of the other lies that were used to start the witch hunt and used to this day to maintain it. After all, we did not create a national, public Gun Offender Registry well over a decade ago.

    Today, there are no informed, intelligent, unbiased, moral Americans who support the SORs. There are no people who are serious about public safety who support it. Those are not the people who support the SORs. Take a look at the people who do. Immoral un-Americans.

    We also know that people who live in the U.S. cannot responsibly have and use SORs. That goes a hundred fold for politicians, who truly are nothing more than a bunch of criminals who are a danger to free people. It is time to end Nanny Big Government (NBG). It is time to end lying, pandering politicians who cannot grow NBG too big or too expensive or have too many laws. Governments that have SORs are criminal regimes. Do not support them or their law enforcement criminals. Keep as much resources away from them as possible. Remember “If you see something, say something”? Forget that. NBG is the last bunch of criminals that you should involve in anything.

    The good new is that the SORs are completely unnecessary and negligibly beneficial. In order to actually protect yourself and your family, in actual reality and not Registry Fantasyland, you MUST protect from ALL people. If you actually protect your family in actual reality, you have no need at all for any very, very incomplete list from NBG. The SORs are also extremely counterproductive and gravely harming America. Destroying them will make all of us safer.

  • #22621 Reply

    Mark

    OK it is 6:30 Sept 28th 2017. I googled the Supreme Court and looked to see if there was anything about the WRIT of CERTIORARI and found this. http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/092817zr.html. As far as I can tell the Muniz case is not listed. Good or Bad, or did I miss something?

    • #22645 Reply

      Anonymous

      @Mark
      I believe still good for us in PA. Bad for our Brothers & Sisters RSOs that have no pending cases in their respective State Supreme Courts. If the SCOTUS does not strike down SORNA or at least its Ex Post Facto provisions by/after granting to hear the case then, it is up to each State/Commonwealth/Territory to take up the issue at their Supreme Courts (please, be aware that I do not claim to be right on this assessment so, someone please correct me if I am mistaken).

    • #22648 Reply

      Anonymous

      @Brian
      …while I do agree with quite a bit of what you wrote from your own research, I will reserve myself from participating in the “Destroying” portion of your last sentence. I am angry still at a lot that has been done unlawful/unfairly/unethical to me & my loved ones & my fellow RSOs, but there has been enough “destroying” already. I would prefer to defeat the ignorance and/or hate thru education as NARSOL is doing and as we are trying to do by conversating about our knowledge and experiences, & to defeat our anger thru channeling on positive acts (whatever those may be). 🙂

      • #22881 Reply

        Brian

        @Anonymous
        Michigan won as you may know now just waiting for PA, thinking positive god willing PA makes the threw with a big win with SCOTUS.

  • #22413 Reply

    Anonymous

    @Txso4life
    Thank you for the article link!

    @Mark
    The 9/28/2017 date may be when we should know if SCOTUS will hear the case. May it be so, if it is for the best outcome!

    Now, I will get ahead of myself a bit… When the decision is made to remove human folks from this unconstitutional-oppressive… (OK, let me stay professional. If we are here, we know!) SORNA, then what happens with our lives? (and I am not referring to monetary compensation though, if any one wants to share further as some have, it would surely be appreciated!) Are we really going to be free or just freer *look it up* for others in the future (which I am OK with)? Just more free than current?

    I am referring to further obligations imposed by States, U.S. Federal Government and/or other Countries when it comes to where we live, where we work, where we travel and/or where we raise a family. Will we have to live forever in the same State given relief (i.e. PA, etc.)[I am an American citizen PA resident since early 90’s, convicted in a Military Court (just because of that my situation turned more complex than most others…I get it) in Camp Lejeune, N.C. (11 month sentence-misdemeanor- out in 9 good behavior) back to PA with no restrictions other than being placed on PA registry (for 10 years now tier 1) which I do not recall ever being discussed by my free legal Military Counsel until days before release when they were demanding to have my blood drawn as part of my release (or I would not have taken the plea deal offered even as I was threatened with further *made up* charges), never any other convictions. Born in Puerto Rico where a registry is mandated in exchange to receive Federal funds for Law Enforcement] Will I have to register if I go there? I have been considering moving to some Central American Countries (since I do speak Spanish) when $ permit and my children are on a solid path to success where they will need me very little to nothing at all (though to me our children will always needs us and we will need them, if there is genuine love), but I want to start another life without being a social stigma to myself or loved ones or have fingers pointed at me by people that have done…that are no Saints, but have never gotten caught by “the law” on things.

    I have been reading that many European Countries will not welcome people in our situation or past plus, I am not financially well (anyone is pretty much welcome anywhere if you have money *ahem…Dennis Rodman & North Korea…ahem* nor am I Caucasian, no offense intended to anyone, but just a sincere observation) so, much of Europe and Australia is pretty much out of my future plans. Maybe Japan (but not with the tension that is going on right now in that region of the World).

    Essentially, can we live in other States of the U.S. with more peace and income opportunities? Can we move to another Country where we may find peace & civility even if it means renouncing citizenship? Will we legally be able to change our names if we want to do so? (I have read in articles on the subject over the years that we are a major exception to a resounding, NO) Will we be completely removed from the Federal Government Database NSOPW which right now states: *quote* “Due to Hurricane Maria, Puerto Rico’s offender information is unavailable through NSOPW. At this time, we are unable to provide an estimate for when their information will be available again.” *end quote* and thru the SMART website *quote* “Welcome to the Office of Sex Offender Sentencing, Monitoring, Apprehending, Registering, and Tracking (SMART) site. The SMART Office was authorized in the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act of 2006, which was signed into law on July 27, 2006.” *end quote* Are our drivers’ licenses and/or travel Visas going to be tagged or marked with some sort of designation to further punish/shame us? Will paying lawyers/legal counsels be the only way to truly have the legal back-up and motions placed/taken to be removed from everything to include records sealing/clearing/pardoning/expungement?

    I am asking these questions for me and those that choose not to ask them, but want to also know!
    I’ve been afraid for many long years, and still am. But may my questions help us all trying to do right!
    *respectful rant finished, thank you for reading and/or answering!* 🙂

    • #22431 Reply

      Anonymous

      After further research, checking, reading and…re-checking, I came across these SORNA related articles that I hope helps all interested. Some articles will answer questions and some will raise more. There will be links so, it will be up to the moderators to permit their posting. Thanks to the mods in advance!

      https://www.smart.gov/international_tracking.htm
      International Tracking of Sex Offenders

      The SMART Office provides guidance on the implementation of the Sex Offender Registration and Notification Act (SORNA) and has been continually involved in the efforts to improve tracking of registered sex offenders traveling internationally since its inception. Through collaborative actions with other federal agencies, the development of policy and guidelines and the publication of relevant resources, the SMART Office plays a vital role in the U.S. government’s overarching efforts to notify foreign countries when registered sex offenders are traveling abroad.
      International Tracking of Sex Offenders Working Group

      SORNA and the SORNA Final Guidelines tasked the U.S. Department of Justice with creating a tracking system for sex offenders who enter and depart the United States. To that end, the SMART Office organized the International Tracking of Sex Offenders Working Group in 2008. This working group, comprising more than 20 component agencies and offices within the Departments of Justice, Homeland Security, State and Defense, proposed a system using existing resources, outlined in the International Tracking of Sex Offenders Working Group White Paper. The working group, chaired by SMART, has met regularly over the past 10 years, most recently in May 2017.
      SORNA & Advance Notice of International Travel

      In 2011, the Department of Justice released the SORNA Supplemental Guidelines that require registered sex offenders to inform their residence jurisdiction of any intended travel outside of the United States at least 21 days prior to their departure, and the registration jurisdiction to collect information about the offender’s intended international travel. The jurisdiction is required to send that information to the U.S. Marshals Service’s National Sex Offender Targeting Center, who, in turn, reviews and forwards it to INTERPOL-Washington for foreign country notification.
      International Megan’s Law

      In 2016, Congress passed International Megan’s Law, which codified the 21-day advance travel notification requirement, and built on the work of the U.S. Marshals Service’s National Sex Offender Targeting Center. It also specifically authorized the work of the Department of Homeland Security’s Angel Watch Center, which uses passenger manifest data and criminal history record information to detect persons convicted of sex offenses against minors who are traveling to countries where the sexual exploitation of children is most likely to occur.

      The SMART Office published a two-page summary of International Megan’s Law shortly after its passage.
      Additional Resources

      In 2013, the Government Accountability Office issued a comprehensive report detailing the efforts to track registered sex offenders traveling internationally, including the work of the SMART Office and the International Tracking of Sex Offenders Working Group.

      The SMART Office published a Global Overview of Sex Offender Registration and Notification Systems, most recently updated in 2016.

      You will need to have a PDF file reader installed on your computing device for this one below:
      https://www.smart.gov/pdfs/SORNA-progress-check.pdf
      Sex Offender Registration and Notification Act (SORNA) State and Territory Implementation
      Progress Check

      These following are NARSOL articles and please read the comments as possible:

      Anthony Weiner sentenced to 21 months in sexting case

      Does anyone really understand recidivism?

      Sex offenders blame secluded island’s water for deaths

      International Meagan’s Law damages a person’s reputation

      • #22517 Reply

        Mark

        @Anonymous

        I followed the link to SMART.gov page and looked at the compliance list. So when Muniz is upheld, will Pa go to yellow and not be full compliance? It seems that their own paperwork could be it undoing also as it says “Retroactively applies requirements.” The word retroactively show up there, a naughty word to the courts.
        If this is used to know if someone is a RSO, and one is removed from Pa’s list how would any other state or entity know the person in question was at one time on the list?? My therapist asked me the visit my wife and I had after Muniz came down, How it applied to me? Then he asked me that if I am removed from the Pa list, how would anyone know I was ever on it? I am curious about that myself. I have family out of state and do not go there for the Holidays
        since this all started. Also weren’t the juvenile crimes declared unconstitutional by SCOTUS?

        • #22527 Reply

          Anonymous

          @Mark
          Thank you for checking it! I honestly do not know what the exact plan of attack or support is going to be for PA’s legislators on SORNA in the future and the Federal Government mandates. There is a person on a NARSOL article link I Re-posted here that in the comments section explains many things in understandable details (non-legal mostly).
          The name is terry brunson (as spelled)
          I encourage you to go there, read the comments, and respectfully ask terry brunson who, seems to be active on replies as possible. I would also like to know about the question you have as others might.
          Take care, blessings and let us keep informed! 🙂
          Here below is the article again:

          PA’s high court rules retroactive SORNA violates constitution

  • #22268 Reply

    Mark

    Well, the first Monday in October is only a week away. We have to pray that SCOTUS does not take up the case and let the Pa ruling stand. This does explain why PSP has not taken any action on Muniz. What is the consensus of the legal learned folks here on this development?
    It should be suggested that people on the registry remain compliant just to avoid any hassles the LE.
    Since the issue was stayed by the court until SCOTUS decides, but could it be used as a defense for failing to comply, if the one was sentenced prior to Dec. 2012 provided Muniz stands?

    • #22723 Reply

      Brian

      @Mark
      We can hope SCOTUS doesn’t take the case. I did see SNYDER VS DOE OF MICHIGAN was taken by SCOTUS so I am thinking they will take I guess it would be JOSE MUNIS VS FEED? Or FREED VS DOE I don’t know how it will be worded. when I look on the SCOTUS BLOG the only one I can find is SNYDER VS DOE. So let’s hope that’s a good sign GOD willing anyway. I read the supplemental brief and looks like SCOTUS may be in favor of DOE but it’s confusing language to me, I can post the whole brief in you want to read it.

      • #22725 Reply

        Fred
        Keymaster

        Where did you read that Snyder v. Does was taken? We are still waiting for that order, which should be Monday.

    • #22300 Reply

      Txso4life

      Here’s a break down from the folks at SCOTUS regarding the Justices conference today (9/25). A little crack of information to the upcoming important news every one hoping and waiting for…

      Cert grants from the long conference: The September effect

      • #22316 Reply

        Mark

        So, if I understand correctly, we should know if SCOUTUS will hear the case on the 28th.

        • #22583 Reply

          Paul

          Is Freed waiting to see what happens today to file or not?

        • #22605 Reply

          Anonymous

          @Paul
          …as the above of your post link provided by @Txso4life explained, yes AG Dave Freed filed already. (to answer your question)

  • #22139 Reply

    Anonymous

    @Brian @ bill
    …and to anyone else interested, please read the comments section on this NARSOL article “PA’s high court rules retroactive SORNA violates constitution” right on this website. Someone by the name: terry brunson shared some things that may be encouraging and helpful. It was for me!

    I will not copy & paste the web link because, even though it is an article from NARSOL, it might not be posted by the moderators for being in a link format.

    I was going to copy & paste here a bit of what the person said there, but decided against doing so because, that person went out of their way and beyond (…sorry Buzz Lightyear! Lol) to write what they did to share their invaluable knowledge. The article from NARSOL & the comments all deserve to be read. (…and yes, there is a lot to read, but it is in non-legal format as much as reasonably possible in my opinion)

    Thank you for understanding! Stay the course & supportive of each other!
    Blessing to everyone!

    • #22281 Reply

      Robin
      Keymaster

      Just for future reference, we will always re-post a link to one of NARSOL’s own blog postings. Not a problem. Feel free.

    • #22278 Reply

      Brian

      @Anonymous, That was just mind blowing from Terry Brunson, I understand why you didn’t repost it, from what I read SCOTUS won’t accept anything to do with EX POST FACTO. That’s my understanding anyway, I am a bit slow have been my whole life. God I hope she’s right though she seams to know the law very well.

      • #22284 Reply

        Anonymous

        @Brian
        You have demonstrated gratitude, understanding and kindness. Nothing about your behavior or reading comprehension skills qualifies you as slow to me! 🙂

        @Robin Keymaster
        Thank you! I will keep that reference in knowledge. 🙂

        • #22555 Reply

          Brian

          @ Anonymous, Thank you for your kind words and all the help you have provided, God willing I pray every night that this ends in a positive way for SO’s. As far as Terry explains this, it will be a good outcome for us.

        • #22571 Reply

          Anonymous

          I thank you for staying active & supportive on NARSOL for it helps us all. May your positive prayers (…and everyone else’s) be heard! 🙂

    • #22151 Reply

      Cary
      • #22180 Reply

        Anonymous

        @Cary
        Thank you for that information!
        So we now officially know that Dave Freed, the Cumberland County District Attorney and Communications Chair for the Pennsylvania District Attorneys Association that he is *quote* “pleased to report that just last week the Pennsylvania Supreme Court stayed the Muniz decision pending my filing of a Writ of Certiorari petition with the United States Supreme Court.” *end quote*

        After reading the official article on the link your provided, it is very clear to me that this law enforcement public servant is on a personal vendetta against folks on a registry and will not rest until he can make himself more powerful and a household name by quoting manipulated (picked & chosen) & unrealistic statistics of recidivism and sharing his personal views and not the professional views of the State Constitution & laws he swore (supposedly) to uphold (& protect). I have copy & paste some excerpts from Dave Freed’s report Before the House Judiciary Committee on 9/12/2017

        “One such study followed 9,691 male sex offenders released from prisons in 15 states in 1994 and found that nearly 4 out of every 10 returned to prison within 3 years.(1) Another study that spanned a twenty-five year period after release found that rapists and child molesters remained at risk to reoffend at least 15-20 years after discharge, and that the sexual recidivism arrest rate for rapists was 39% and the sexual recidivism arrest rate for child molesters was an even higher 52%.(2)”

        “Equally significant is that any statistical attempts to measure the risk of new offenses greatly understate the true nature of the problem because the vast majority of sex crimes are never reported.”

        “With regard to the Muniz case, I disagree with the ruling. In my view, SORNA’s requirements are neither punitive nor onerous. While SORNA places significant burdens on those required to register, the scope of these requirements do not, in my view, rise to the level of punishment. It is for that reason that I have filed a petition for Writ of Certiorari with the United States Supreme Court.”

        “The Muniz case has the potential to affect every single sex offender convicted before December 20, 2012. It will then be up to the Pennsylvania State Police to determine whether they should remain on the registry and to litigate any attempts to remove those sex offenders from the registry.”

        “With all that said, there is room for a legislative fix. The PDAA has already been working with Committee staff, and we recommend reenacting a version of Megan’s Law that was in place before SORNA took effect in 2012. This version should apply to those offenders to whom SORNA applied retroactively, meaning that their registration crimes were committed before December 20, 2012. Under this proposal, some offenders would ultimately come off the registry. But the numbers would pale in comparison to the possible 10,000 who could ultimately be removed from the registry should no legislative action be taken.” -end of excerpts-

        Now we wait, again, on the SCOTUS and what other “adjustments” to SORNA legislators come up with in PA. *exhales heavily*

  • #21827 Reply

    Anonymous

    @Brian
    Sorry buddy, but there is no much better place for updated information in one place that I have found other than NARSOL. You will find info at a local level, but you will need to visit or search every locality in every Town/City in a State to get updates on what is going on in those places. This issue is a sickness (the mental kind) of misinformation that is deeply rooted into every cranny of just about every community in the U.S. (even the Amish after what happened in Lancaster, PA years ago, but the difference being they actually/genuinely forgave) and abroad.

    What I would like to know, in all honesty of course, is where are the ethical people, Constitution believing/quoting folks, the individuals of faith, understanding, compassion & forgiveness and last but not least the legal scholars at?

    I am still waiting to be contacted by any groups or attorneys to offer their “help” to seek relieve from this violation of Human Rights (mine and others) and to get the ball rolling to sue the living ghost out of this States & Federal Government. (not going to happen, of course, except by those with the right people & money in the right places, which it is how the justice system often works, sadly and yes, I do not have confidence in how our U.S. justice system operates)

    I have yet to see any post from any entity, (i.e. ACLU, NARSOL, Human Rights Watch, Politicians [yeah…like that would ever happen!] or Lawyers) actually providing direct useful details or recommendations as to whom to seek for legal recourse affordable to all (read my thinking…No money needed to do what is right & lawful!) and without fear of ridicule or retaliation by authorities. As far as I have observed/experienced with attorneys, we are profit and business is good.

    • #22003 Reply

      Brian

      Thank you Anonymous, I will do some digging. I had contacted a law firm who has responded to me, not sure what there going rate is I’m sure it’s not under $5000.00 to hire them seeing that registered citizens have to pay triple for legal services and a bank robber or drug dealer only have to pay $1000.00 or $2.000. I am going to wait to see if the DA’s appeal is taken or rejected in October, if they reject it I won’t need a lawyer if they accept it I will have to find some cash. I was reading something the other night that the DA wants to keep the old law in effect so they can arrest the supposed 10,000 registered citizens who have not complied with the old Megan’s law, he wants to charge them all, these people who want to keep chasing register citizens are the ones with the sickness, the ones with the compulsions to tear people’s lives apart and their families, there the ones that need counseling. Maybe they need to be stuck on a registry for people with incurable obsession compulsory disorders. There the sick ones, not the people who have been on the registry for 10 15 20 years and haven’t comitted any other crimes. This is just frustrating and rediculous in my opinion.

      • #22130 Reply

        bill

        so now we are waiting to see if the appeal is accepted, when will that happen?

  • #21790 Reply

    Brian

    I was wandering if anyone knows anything going on in Pennsylvania as far as the Supreme Court goes and Munis case. I see a lot happening in other states and a lot of it is so horrible the laws the pass illegally. I remember in 2012 when they passed SORNA illegally in PA everyone had gone to the ACLU and filled petitions and whatnot and all of a sudden there was no more talk of it and no one seamed to be fighting this illegal law like everyone had given up, Can someone out there tell me what’s going on at this moment in time or point me to websites that have updated material?

  • #21357 Reply

    Rajendra

    So what does this mean for a labeled citizen now?

  • #21189 Reply

    Mark

    In February I received a letter from the Megan’s law section of PSP stating I was reclassified from lifetime registration to Tier II, When SONRA went into effect Dec 2012, I went from a 10 Yr registration to Lifetime due to the 2 pleading guilty to 2 charges. Then in Aug of 2016 this occurred, Supreme Court ruling will reduce number of sex offenders required to register for life. https://narsol.org/2016/08/4053/ It took from August 2016 until February 2017 to issue the revision in tiers. Given that should we not look for a minimum of 5 months for the AG and PSP to get off their butts and follow the courts ruling. Does the action to SCOTUS delay this and if so for how long?

    • #21331 Reply

      Brian

      Not sure how long it will take but someone needs to hurry this along, I know if it was a new law to punish SO’s it would have went to the front of the line under the radar and passed within week. As soon as they cancel SORNA in PA god willing people need to get lawyers and start suing within days. I was a teir I sense 2002 I didn’t have to register till pa passed a law that out of state SO’s had to register. I was unaware I was even required to register. CO probation made it part of my probation requirements which I had no idea for some reason. Anyway sense 2012 I was classified as teir II. I pray someone in the Supreme Court says no appeals allowed and they cancel this ridiculousness.

  • #19564 Reply

    Cary

    Based on the New findings of the Pennsylvania Constitution — Pennsylvania’s Ex Post Facto Clause would be taken a bit of time to get people off the registry like myself tier II under the 2012 SORNA. origanally to the 10 year of regestering year of 1999 of tier I of my original sentencing. It is to my understanding of the new findings that the date of the new findings of the punitive will arise in actions of a huge lawsuits from the date of the findings to the date of the actual removing of the registry. Because it violates the constitutional rights and laws. So my best guess is to contact the local attorneys and get the free advices. If the findings are true then the state has to give a short time to removal of the registry in a reasonable time allowed but no further than a set date. If there is a such date. After the due date than yes, sue the hell out of PA! Why not!!!

  • #19371 Reply

    Anonymous

    Amendment 8 – Cruel and Unusual Punishment

    Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

  • #19360 Reply

    Anonymous

    My question is…
    Has no one with the power of the people or voice of people contacted Colonel Tyree C. Blocker, Commissioner of the PA State Police or the PA Governor Tom Wolf to make them enforce what the Supreme Court already deemed as fact and law? They had no problem making AWA effective immediately back in Dec. 2012 under PA Governor Corbett so, why the delay now???

    This matter of fact has been decided and all appeals have been exhausted which is why it made it to the PA Supreme Court. Why has my eligible family member not been removed of the demon awful registry already? Enough of being harass, threaten, assaulted, bashed, diminished, insulted, prevent from obtaining work and plain & simple being able to live a productive life!!!

    The social stigma has been unbearable for almost 15 years for everyone involved and there has never been any more crimes of such committed (or any kind as humanly possible under our Faulted Human Laws)!!! This family has been destroyed because of politicians bent on votes and not on caring for anyone, but themselves and their “buddies & secret memberships”. How about upholding the sacred U.S. and States Constitutions!!!

    Amendment 5 – Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings

    “No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.”

  • #17631 Reply

    Smith

    Single, isolated offense (no sex involved, bried inappropriate contact) occured January ’97. Sentenced in April ’98 to 15 years probation, released from supervision after 11 years. Prior to being sentenced, attorney said I did not quality for SO registration and public & community notification requirements, would not have to register, and entered guilty plea based on his advice. State waited until after 30 day appeal period passed, then told me I was designated as an RSO, had to have my photograph taken for RSO website and prospectively register as an SO, and the public and community notifications started. Attorney later admitted that he misrepresented me in court, and that I would have to register for an additional 25 years once I was released from supervison…so 11 years of probation + an additional 25 years, even though he told my wife and me prior to sentencing that I didn’t qualify for SO registration at all. There was no such thing as SO probation at the time I was sentenced. Additionally, under statutes in ’98, 25 year registration AFTER being released from supervision…not lifetime as it is now. Initially, after being sentenced, never had to report to Sheriff’s office, and an officer came by maybe once per year to verify address. Then state started adding more and more restrictions, probation kept trying to apply them to me, attorney kept going to court, restrictions kept getting thrown out by circuit judge on ex post facto grounds.

    THEN ALONG CAME SORNA…and all its Nazi, Colonial-era measures and restrictions were retroactively applied.

    Was automatically assigned Tier II based on conviction alone…no hearing…no due process…no equal protection…after several years of not having a Tier level at all or having to report to the Sheriff’s office. All the restrictions kicked in. Was told I had to start reporting once every 6 months to Sheriff’s office in person or face arrest and prison. Cops started coming by once every 3 months even though they’re only required to come by only once per year. (Ironically, registered sexual predators have to report in once every 3 months, so it’s as if they are, in effect, treating me like an RSP except, in the reverse, they are coming to me instead of me going to them). And, even though have not been on probation since January 2009, the cops act just like probation officers when they come by every quarter, with their line of questioning, etc. And Florida has continued to add more and more restrictions retroactively and has been labeled as one of the harshest states in the union for RSO’s. I know I am not alone but to even begin to describe the harassment my family and I have been continuously subjected to, not even so much by the general public but mainly by cops, is a horror story and nightmare in and of itself! They sometimes come in groups after midnight, always without a search warrant, repeatedly ringing our doorbell and banging on the door, waking up my family from sleep, yelling and demanding us to open the door. They often come after dark, 3 – 6 squad cars at a time, with their all their lights on, making a spectacle in front of our neighbors, shining their ultra bright led lights in my face, practically blinding me. Sometimes they will stand out by the street and yell across the yard to me so all the neighbors can hear: “WE’RE HERE TO DO A SEX OFFENDER CHECK!” “YOU’RE A REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER AND WE’RE HERE TO VERIFY THAT YOU STILL LIVE AT THIS ADDRESS!” And they will keep repeating it over and over, screaming it across the yard for all of our neighbors to hear. They constantly threaten to arrest me if I do not answer their questions when they come by or show them my ID. They have threatened to shoot our dog without justification. They will drive by and turn their sirens and/or lights on just as they’re passing my home then turn them off right after they pass…they do this all the time. I’ve seen them throwing trash in our yard, and I’ve caught them parked in my driveway at 1am or 2am in the morning after my dog would alert us, then they will take off real fast when I step outside to see what the dog is barking at. They leave these large, bright yellow placards hanging on our fence, front door or garage door with big, bold black letters “SEX OFFENDER UNIT”, with a note demanding that I call them if I wasn’t home when they came by, and any visitors to our home can see those signs. They’ve even taped those yellow signs on our fence facing the street so that passing cars and neighbors can see them. They have followed my family and me around, stalking us at the county fair, at the park, in a restaurant, at public events, etc. My son has been jogging with his friends and they will stop him, asking him for ID, and make comments in front of his friends about his dad being an RSO. Or, if he gets stopped for a basis traffic intraction, they will surround him with 4 – 5 sqaud cars and make a poing of referring to him as “the son of that sex offender”. The list of harassment goes on and on…years of this hell on earth! The very public servants that are supposed to be examples of “lawfully abiding” are the very ones violating the spirit of the law by harassing and stalking my family and me. They are extremely aggressive with me, always trying to cause a provocation, seemingly as if trying to come up with an excuse to shoot me..I’m not even joking!

    How can SORNA or the myriad of new state statutes NOT be punishment and ex post facto violations? It truly is as if probation never ended…just changed hands from probation office to sheriff’s office, is all. If you fail to adhere to the constant, new and increasing retroactve restrictions, then you are faced with arrest and imprisonment, thus increasing the penalities from the original sentence. This is insanity!

  • #17240 Reply

    John W

    I’ve already heard all this before. We went through the same thing in Missouri.
    –1996, I had to register, even though I was released from probation in 1991.
    –2006, Mo. SC ruled that the registration was a “new duty”, so I no longer had to register. My name and information was still published though, because the State said that I voluntarily submitted all my information to them. (Really?)
    — 2007, Mo. SC ruled that the independent registration requirement under SORNA operates irrespective of any allegedly retrospective state law that has been enacted. (Allegedly?)
    –2011, Mo. SC upheld that a suspended imposition of sentence (SIS) requires registration under SORNA. (The United States Government, does not, and will not, recognize any plea agreement or settlement from a state court!)
    –2012, Mo. SC upheld the duration of registration in Missouri is “lifetime”, whether registering because of a Missouri, Federal, Out of State, Tribal, Military or Foreign registration requirement.
    And just in case sometime in the future, an intelligent person would find a persuasive argument in favor of a sex offender concerning the Missouri Constitutional Ex Po Facto law:
    –2013 Mo. SC ruled the restriction under 566.150 RSMo. can be applied retroactively and does not violate Article I, section 13 of the Missouri constitution.
    The ruling goes on to state the prohibition against laws retrospective in their operation does not apply to criminal laws.
    What all of this really means is every single person, whether he/she be a US citizen or not, within or outside the borders of the US, no matter the age, religion, race, creed, color, gender (known or not), have been granted inalienable rights, except, for the “sex offender”. All 3 branches of our government have declared that it is my “civil duty”, under the threat of imprisonment, to voluntarily submit myself, (as well as the few people who may love or care for me), to a life of ridicule, intimidation, disdain, hate, and worst of all, hopelessness. I guess I should be glad that those things aren’t considered punishment.

  • #17089 Reply

    Jim

    https://www.google.com/amp/cumberlink.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/cumberland-county-da-freed-to-request-u-s-supreme-court/article_306cb141-901f-5f8e-a48c-19e13c2ad80f.amp.html

    Can someone enlighten me as to how this DA can appeal to SCOTUS a decision that rests on Pa.state constitutional grounds, as well as federal? I was under the impression that regardless of the federal Ex post fact consideration, this ruling in state constitutional grounds is final and not appealable…

    Is this small DA just trying to save face, or does he have a case?

  • #17082 Reply

    Jim

    https://www.google.com/amp/cumberlink.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/cumberland-county-da-freed-to-request-u-s-supreme-court/article_306cb141-901f-5f8e-a48c-19e13c2ad80f.amp.html

    This- from the prosecuting DA in the Muniz case.

    Can someone enlighten me as to how this DA can appeal both the federal and state aspect of the Muniz case to SCOTUS?

    I was under the impression that because the Pa Supreme Court opinion held that
    Sorna violated BOTH the US and Pa constitutions, there would be no way for this DA to attempt to change the outcome…

    • #17086 Reply

      Robin
      Keymaster

      Every decision of a state’s highest appellate court (in PA’s case, the “supreme court”) can be appealed to the nation’s highest court on the basis of a federal constitutional claim. Whether or not the PA Supreme Court correctly applied its own state’s constitution is only reviewable insofar as it may conflict with the federal. How DA Freed “connects that up” remains to be seen. Seeking the federal Supreme Court’s review of the case will follow the typical custom of a Petition for Writ of Certiorari in this instance.

      • #17367 Reply

        Paul B

        I would assume that if this goes to SCOTUS NARSOL and NCROSL would file a Petition for Writ of Certiorari on the plaintiff side.

        • #17393 Reply

          Chris

          I would hope not. The plaintiff would be the state of Pennsylvania.

  • #17054 Reply

    Paul
  • #16597 Reply

    DW

    If the PSP delays removal of registrants whose conviction dates preclude their being on the registry, shouldn’t the have recourse to sue the state for each day they remained after the court’s ruling? Seems like that might get the PSP motivated to expedite matters a bit.

    • #16879 Reply

      Bruce

      Another way of looking at it: since registration is an unfunded mandate to the PSP, it’s in their best interest to shed the thousands of registrants this applies to, which would reduce the administrative burden and free up resources for actual law enforcement, rather than being bookkeepers and nannies. Hopefully that will motivate then to move quickly, since it’s essentially a monetary benefit to them.

    • #16602 Reply

      Dee

      My thoughts exactly, DW.

      If registrants are required to report changes within 3 days, I would proffer that the state likewise has 3 days within which to act upon the ruling. But you know that they will drag their feet and try to throw up barriers to prevent the mass removal of registrants who have *already completed their original punishment* (since we can call it punishment now) under Megan’s Law.

      I also have a fear that even more websites will pop up endeavoring to quickly record all of the names on the registry as-is, thus truly handing down a lifetime punishment for thousands of low-risk offenders. People who serve their time need to be given the ability to move on and rebuild — not be tied permanently to Draconian standards of punishment. “But how can victims rebuild? They’re scarred for a lifetime,” you might say. I understand that viewpoint, but we’re talking about what the law spells out for us. We can’t decide willy-nilly what we want as punishment. Hell, I think there should be an equivalent list for animal abusers, elder abusers, and murderers (if anything to show that not everyone is an angel and is, in fact, a likely hypocrite), but just because I think it should happen doesn’t mean that it will. That’s for the system to decide based on the letter and spirit of the law. And, in this case, they did just that.

      • #16615 Reply

        DW

        All you points are well taken Miss Dee. My guess is that we don’t see the kind of scrutiny applied to say, DUI offenders (much more likely to kill entire families, let alone harm children) than anyone on the SOL. No doubt it’s a bill of attainder as I understand the Constitution to describe the same. I’m not a lawyer. Don’t even play one on TV, but I can read. The semantics used to justify applying this thing retroactively, or at all for that matter, was done so by folks who would be most effected by posting all criminal/immoral/civil crimes on the internet. Pandering politicians.

        Pray America gets back to her roots as a free republic bound by a Constitution, even when it is most unpopular to do so.

  • #16164 Reply

    Eric

    I was on another site almost like this, one person talked to a lawyer and they said it would cost them (the lawyer’s price) to file a motion to be removed from the list. I would like to know if there was something else I would/could do, I went from 10 years to 25 to 15. I was supposed to be removed from the list in 2013 but it got extended to Tier II then dropped down to Tier I. Is it the PSP’s responsibility to remove those needed to be removed or are we the ones responsible to get ourselves removed. Also does the state actually have the ability to and would they appeal to the Federal court? That one has me worried.

    • #16610 Reply

      Dee

      Eric,

      My husband was slated to be removed in 2014 after ten years but was updated to 2019 after SORNA took effect. We contacted a lawyer about filing a motion due to a ruling in PA last year that says that my husband might be able to get off the list because he met some criteria (I can’t think of it right now). They said it would cost 5k (told to us this February). Eric,

      My husband was slated to be removed in 2014 after ten years but was updated to 2019 after SORNA took effect. We contacted a lawyer about filing a motion due to a ruling in PA last year that says that my husband might be able to get off the list because he met some criteria (I can’t think of it right now). They said it would cost 5k (told to us this February). However, my understanding is that now the state itself will have to remove registrants whom they have now unlawfully kept on the registry past their “expiration date.” We are expecting them to announce that they will be removing registrants, but who knows when. Probably months. We will not be paying a lawyer to maybe possibly have slight chance maybe of removing him from the list., my understanding is that now the state itself will have to remove registrants whom they have now unlawfully kept on the registry past their “expiration date.” We are expecting them to announce that they will be removing registrants, but who knows when. Probably months. We will not be paying a lawyer to maybe possibly have slight chance maybe of removing him from the list.

    • #16246 Reply

      Eric

      *It would cost them (the lawyer’s price) $5,000.00…

      • #16427 Reply

        Michael

        PSP would be the one’s who could remove people from the list, but they don’t have to. They can simply say what they have been saying to people, “get a court order.” I would expect that at some point, they will start the process of removing people from the registry, and no doubt that process will be lengthy.

        ….

        • #16579 Reply

          Eric

          If the courts ruled it unconstitutional, how can they not have to remove those effected?

  • #16018 Reply

    Jennie Henzel

    What does AWA stand for?

    • #16763 Reply

      Darrin Swait

      Not only that, Robin, but it also prevents some registrants from sponsoring their spouses or fiances into the country. I am currently dealing with that issue right now and it’s breaking her heart. This is good news, though. It’s progress

    • #16024 Reply

      Robin
      Keymaster

      AWA is the acronym for Adam Walsh Act, the most recent federal attempt to standardize sex offender registry requirements among the states.

  • #15897 Reply

    Dave

    The double Jeopardy clause in the US constitution states you can only be punished once for any crime if SORNA is punishment then SORNA violates the double jeopardy clause making it unconstitutional regardless of weather or not it was applied to the offender after their sentence or not. Anyone who was already punished for a sex crime is therefore disqualified from the SORNA punishment.

    • #23253 Reply

      Brian

      SORNA was signed into law in 12/20/2012 (Retroactively) so they could do something illegaly and make it sound good. But to people that were convicted after 12/20/2012 it is not illegal. So yes in my opinion it would be double jeopardy. The courts know what is going on. I think SCOTUS will reject the apeal because they rejected the SUDER vs DOE case.

    • #16536 Reply

      Chris

      That could be true for most people convicted before Megan’s Law. Since there was no registry then (excepting California’s), people could not be sentenced to register.

      HOWEVER, since the introduction of the registries, typically a person is told at the time of their conviction that they are required to register, so the justice system (namely SCOTUS) would treat the registration requirement as part of the sentence. Even the dissenting justices in Smith v. Doe said they would not deem a registration requirement to be unconstitutional if the requirement was ordered at sentencing. The same would be true for the restrictions that have been deemed “punishment” and therefore unenforceable ex post facto.

    • #16428 Reply

      Michael

      The constitutional prohibition against ‘double jeopardy’ was designed to protect an individual from being subjected to the hazards of trial and possible conviction more than once for an alleged offense.

  • #15800 Reply

    Stacey

    Excellent Article! And a positive outcome indeed!

  • #15616 Reply

    Chris

    My prediction is that both Pennsylvania and the federal government will appeal this ruling to the Supreme Court asking for cert. I think SCOTUS will grant cert to both Snyder and the state case, and combine them since they are so similar. The petition by the federal government may very well stand alone as its own case.

    The beauty of this is that PA and US governments must petition for cert within a relatively short period of time. I suspect that the petition will have to be made either before SCOTUS reconvenes or very shortly after. So more than likely, the case would be heard next term. IF SCOTUS grants cert at all. I still think they will in Snyder, and IMO this ruling increases the chance. It would be fantastic if they did not, but I think they will.

    • #16429 Reply

      Michael

      It won’t matter. The court held that it violates the Pennsylvania Constitution. The ruling will still apply.

    • #16072 Reply

      Mark

      I’m a bit confused now. Did not 6 Justices affirm that SORNA violates the ex-post facto clause of the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. If so how can the Commonwealth go to Federal court to overturn it? Does not the State Constitution
      affect this, as it was a State law in the first place. I believe that the Federal ex-post fatco issue is a separate but equally important issue, but should not invalidate the Pa Supreme Court ruling.

      Also, how long does the Commonwealth have to appeal anyway?

      • #16539 Reply

        Chris

        I could be wrong. It’s happened once or twice that I remember.

    • #15741 Reply

      Mario

      Hello!
      I just found out about this wonderful site via YOUTUBE video by watching “Mike Woodall: How the Sex Offender Registry has Broken My Family Apart” Which I have almost the same story…I was reading and found out about this news and blew me away! (in a good sense) I was already on the Megan’s law for 10’s and 5yrs probation for “child porn”, since 2009 and ended in 2014! Within my 2nd-3rd year being on probation my ex-wife took my 2 younger children to a therapist for a prior incident prior to the 2009 offence..(long story) either way, it happened to be when my ex and I made an agreement with custody of our 2 younger children aged 10 and 13. Realizing I would like to have more time with them then agreed upon, I called her, she didn’t like that, then within 2 days children and youth told me I couldn’t be with my children and then all hell broke lose! For a lesser offence of (1ct photographing, videotaping my Daughter and her friend nude)!No sexual contact, or sexual assault on either! 1ct Corruption of minors!
      With that said, In 2010-2011, I was ordered another 5 yrs probation and retroactive to a life time registration on Megan’s law!

      MY life has been hell, and I am in contact with my so called victim, whom My Daughter and I have been closer then ever since this whole thing has came to be revealed was not my daughters doing!

      I hope this will resolve my case up!

  • #15335 Reply

    Jim

    What of those that signed plea agreements prior to December 2012 which were not “sexually violent Sorna crimes at the time”? (Those that happened to be on probation for a Sorna sexual offense when Sorna was passed in 2012).

    • #16430 Reply

      Michael

      Simply put, if your conviction was prior to December 20, 2012, SORNA’s provisions shall not apply to you.

  • #15326 Reply

    Mark

    I personally am affected by this ruling. I saw my requirements go from 10 yrs, I was sentenced in 2004, to lifetime, upon the enactment of SORNA. In February, I have received from PSP a letter stating that since my charge is a tier II I now would be required to register only until 2032. If I read this correctly, then I would be removed from the registry completely. Under pre-SORNA I would have been removed in March of 2017. So what next? How long will the wait be for us folks who were unjustly affected by some bureaucrat?

    This is wonderful news!!

    • #16664 Reply

      Dee

      Mark,

      You’re right, this is wonderful news. If your original sentencing in 2004 was for ten years on the registry, shouldn’t you have been removed in 2014 and not 2017? My husband is in the same boat except his increased from ten to 15 years, so we have been biding our time and *trying* to move on, though much of our young adult lives (both his *and* mine as I’m collateral damage in this whole system) has been basically wasted in a paralytic anxiety and fear. We should have been able to start building our lives again in 2014, as I suspect was the same for you. Here is to the hope that things will revert to how they should have been and you’re removed from the list along with my husband and thousands of other people who have served their original punishment!

  • #15127 Reply

    Paul

    Could some please explain what PSP will most likely have to do with pre SORNA registers. Will they have to do something soon? If you have two or more 10yr registration convictions, that were combined in one plea, pre SORNA. Combining two 10yr registrations to equal a life time registration was struck down. IF one was turned into tier three from a 10yr registration. So I believe both ways life time registration increased are now struck down. Anyone have input or current appeals?

    • #16483 Reply

      Carol S

      My son went from 10 years to lifetime following the passage/adoption of the Adam Walsh Act in PA. Now he will go back to 10 years and be done soon. We may spend the money for an attorney regarding his case (for other reasons as well) but I recall how QUICKLY the letters and change in status went out in PA. Let them use the same resources they used then to reverse the damage they did then.

      However, I don’t recall his plea agreement saying 10 years FROM WHEN? Does anyone know? From conviction date, offense date or from after release prison? That does not seem fair as sentences for his crime varied from probation to 5 to 10 years.

    • #16431 Reply

      Michael

      Eventually they could start removing people, but it will be a lengthy process. If you want legal relief as soon as possible, you should hire a lawyer to file a motion seeking relief based upon the ruling in this case. I’d think it would require nothing more than a Writ of Mandamus [Action in Mandamus].

      • #16510 Reply

        Paul

        Mike would it go to the lower court first the sentencing court? Do you think PSP will have to do something soon?

  • #14976 Reply

    Robin

    Good analysis, Larry. It’s pleasing to see more and more courts willing to use the “P” word.

Reply To: AWA Loses in Pennsylvania’s Highest Court
We welcome a lively discussion with all view points - keeping in mind...

  • *Your submission must be approved by a NARSOL moderator.
  • *Moderating decisions may be subjective.
  • *Excessively long replies will be rejected, without explanation.
  • *Be polite and courteous. This is a public forum.
  • *Do not post in ALL CAPS.
  • *Do not promote your business, your blog, your website, or any other business, blog, or website.
  • *Please enter a name that does not contain links to other websites.
Your information:





<a href="" title="" rel="" target=""> <blockquote cite=""> <code> <pre> <em> <strong> <del datetime=""> <ul> <ol start=""> <li> <img src="" border="" alt="" height="" width="">