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SCOTUS declines to hear Muniz *UPDATED INFO 1/27*

*On January 22, 2018 SCOTUS denied hearing Muniz. The advocates in PA and NARSOL are working to develop a strategy to support those impacted by Muniz. The Pennsylvania Prison Society and the Pennsylvania Defenders Association are both recommending to all of their clients that they sit tight in terms of getting off the registry unless they are in prison for violating SORNA itself. The reasoning behind this recommendation is that (a) relief obtained in the short term might quickly be taken back when a new law is enacted, and (b) flooding the courts will only pressure the Senate to adopt HB 1952 (the “legislative fix” intended to contain as many people as possible on the registry).   The strategies now being examined are focused on helping as many individuals on the PA registry as possible in the most efficient and effective way. *

By NARSOL . . . January 22 SCOTUS denied to hear the case of Pennsylvania v. Jose M. Muniz.

After the Pennsylvania Supreme Court in July ruled that portions of the state’s current sex offender registration law was punishment, NARSOL posted this analysis and this article by Joshua Vaughn.

In looking at what led up to this, Joshua Vaughn now writes (The Sentinel, 1/22/2018) 

The U.S. Supreme Court will not hear a challenge to a recent state court ruling that determined part of Pennsylvania’s sex offender registration law was unconstitutional.

The high court denied a petition from the Cumberland County District Attorney’s Office to review a July decision from the Pennsylvania Supreme Court that found the state’s current sex offender registration law was punishment and thus could not be imposed retroactively….

In July, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled that [a] 2012 update, which expanded the offenses covered under the law and changed how often and for how long some people must register, was punishment.

Prior to the ruling, the registry was generally considered a civil penalty, which allowed it to be imposed on people retroactively.

The challenge came from a Cumberland County case where defendant Jose Muniz argued he was subject to harsher penalties under the 2012 update than he was at the time of his conviction.

So the ruling of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court stands. What happens next? As soon as we have official legal opinions and advice, we will pass it on.

 

 

This topic contains 826 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Jim B 11 hours, 51 minutes ago.

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  • #31805 Reply

    Charles Durden

    When will other cases from other states follow up and file in their court?

    • #32027 Reply

      anthony jones

      If this documentary film on the S.OR could be shown to any judges the S.O.R would be abolished!
      see film http://www.evillaw.tk

    • #32219 Reply

      Lonna Romero

      I believe we need to gather together in each state, those who are being punished by this unconstitutional law, and bring lawsuits against the States, the federal government also, and i believe file a suit against the people who had this law passed (Meagan’s Law)For years people on the registry have been punished and it remains ongoing. We need to stand up and FIGHT!! But, problem is, how do we find the people in each state that can help?

      • #32279 Reply

        Paul

        Contact Carol they are starting a PAROL for PA great news we need one every state We need to get Senate to hold public hearing on this bill now.
        Carol mbcor0305@aol.com

      • #32388 Reply

        Mario G

        I will be willing, We ALL need to stand together on this and FILE SUIT!

      • #32757 Reply

        Joseph

        I’m with you. Every single living registrant should be included.

    • #32491 Reply

      William Gratchic

      This is an opportunity that should not be missed.

      The main stream fake media with it’s obvious bias will not offer favorable if any coverage with a protest or campaign at the state capitol. Other strategies, including the alternative media, need to be engaged to build momentum.

      I’m praying some successful punitive lawsuits will sprout from this. Money is the mother’s milk of politics and if you want political and legal action, hit the government where they live.

  • #31807 Reply

    Tammie Lawson

    This is not surprising but definitely not what we had prayed for.We must continue to fight the harsh penalties that the Sex Offender Registry bring to thousands of people who need reform, reclassification. I will continue to fight against law makers who only seek to uphold unconstitutional conditions

    • #31880 Reply

      chuck

      Tammie,
      This is EXACTLY what we prayed for. The denial means the state lost.

      • #31914 Reply

        obvious answers

        The issue with a denial is that it is only a small victory and only statewide..It means in one state it is illegal but in every other state the criminal behavior is acceptable. What would be a victory is if the Supreme Geriatrics would hear the case and THEN side with the ruling by the court.. THAT would make it a national benchmark and actually start a positive opportunity.

      • #31931 Reply

        David Altman

        Yes, the State lost – but so do we. We need SCOTUS to rule in on this, once and for all. Unfortunately, with the current climate, it might be that they rule against us; it’s hard to tell. If they’re strictly Constitutionalists, then we’ll prevail. If they vote according to party lines and the current thinking in politics, then we haven’t got a chance.

        • #31955 Reply

          RobinAdmin

          It’s important that the Court be asked the right question in the right case in order for us to get the answer we seek. Muniz, like Snyder, was not the right case for that. Keep in mind that the Court typically only considers cases that it’s likely to overturn….it very rarely takes a petition to affirm unless, by doing so, it can settle splits among circuits or state supreme courts.

        • #31967 Reply

          Jerry

          What’s some news on North Carolina? Have they been waiting to see the outcome of Muniz?

        • #31971 Reply

          RobinAdmin

          We just received word today that we finally have a hearing date set for the Doe v. Stein case (the NARSOL/NCRSOL case) on Tuesday, February 6th at 9:30 am in the Winston-Salem federal courthouse. The Court will hear the state’s Motion to Dismiss and our attorney, Paul Dubbeling, will be there to argue in opposition to the state’s motion. We expect that most of our complaint will survive this hearing.

        • #32014 Reply

          Chris

          Please be sure to send out an update of what happens. It is tempting to take a day off work to go and see the hearing for myself, but I doubt my boss would appreciate it.

        • #31998 Reply

          Eric

          I don’t see how you can consider Snyder as the wrong case for SCOTUS to decide to overturn Smith v. Doe. It was as perfect as it gets to accomplish that goal. The 6th Circuit, in Snyder, ruled that the registry in Michigan was punitive, setting a circuit split that includes the 8th. Not only that, but the 6th dove right to the heart of the issue: ex post facto violations by defining the Michigan registry as a whole as punitive.

          Nothing strikes to the heart of the issue like that case did. Muniz found only parts of the PA registry as punitive. Snyder saw the whole thing, taken together, as punitive. To me that’s as good as it gets.

          If not Snyder, then, what would you consider a better set of circumstances? Do we have to wait until we have 3-5 Circuits splitting?

        • #32004 Reply

          RobinAdmin

          It is a procedural issue. That’s why so many people appear to misunderstand the outcome. When the Court entertains a petition, it is doing so within the context of the legal question(s) presented. The legal question before the Court in Snyder was this: Was the Sixth Circuit’s opinion regarding Ex Post Facto as it applied to the law and facts presented below correct or incorrect? At first, the Court was not exactly sure, apparently. So, the Court asked for the Solicitor General’s opinion. The Solicitor General supplied a brief in which he exhaustively articulated all the reasons why he felt that the Sixth Circuit reached a sound and constitutionally correct conclusion. Thus, the Court saw no error in the Sixth Circuit’s opinion to correct. And the petition to “correct” it (as the state of Michigan wanted the Court to do) was rejected.

          So, it doesn’t really matter very much what I personally see or don’t see. What matters is the way the Court operates and there’s nothing anyone of us can do about that.

        • #33745 Reply

          Tim L

          All judges are D’s or R’s! No exceptions!

        • #32282 Reply

          Paul

          Robin is right about this lets get it done

        • #31973 Reply

          Chuck

          By denying cert, they did rule. They could of said “we need to uphold smith v for” and they chose NOT to.
          Yes, it is a State ruing, but it gives us the ammo we needed without a prolonged fight.

        • #32536 Reply

          terry brunson

          AWA is the main National Sex offender law. But the Federal Government has no agency to manage sex offenders. They have offered the states MONEY to come into compliance of AWA rule for sex offender registration.

          Each state applies to regulation sex offenders. SORNA . Some state never bought into this SORNA stuff.

          The SCOTUS don’t want to push an AWA federal thing that states have control over. Each state does the sex offender thing different.

          The SCOTUS respects that. If the high state court says something is wrong with Sex offender laws – That state is the controlling power with say so in that state.

          The SCOTUS has taken a hands off on certain Sex offender stuff. They did take the North Carolina facebook case. Why? I don’t know. . .

          But today SORNA application retroactive is not legal in PA. and the PSP has control over that and the Muniz decision is in full effect as of 22 Jan 2018 9:30 A.M.

          They are going to honor the law. They don’t want to hear about a law that is not a law yet. called HB 1952.

          I was told by the Megan’s Law Section that they respect the MUNIZ decision as the law. The ML people are working long and hard to up hold the Muniz law. I was not on board until I talked to them today.

          My friend Chuck on this site was right – the only judical determination needed to get off the registry is MUNIZ.

          The PSP is not giving ear to no HB 1952 stuff until it is made law. And in it is Muniz helps. I been fighting it getting ready to challenge HB 1952 when it is not a law yet.

          The PAG told me to chill with the fight. They want to get it right too. She was talking like she want to help muniz decision gain the right result. The PASC by 5 feb 2018 will issue remand order for PAG and PSP to remove people ASAP. And They are compling with the law as fast as they can. She did say I was top on the list to be removed. When it hapends I will tell all on this site that I am off for good. I will stay to help anyone that need my help.

  • #31808 Reply

    Biol57

    The collapse of the draconian laws that have encumbered us, far longer than our “punishment” required, continues. Let’s all hope that the trend continues or that SCOTUS intervenes and overturns Smith v. Does and its progeny.

  • #31809 Reply

    Robert J Hogg

    What does this mean for other states that does the same

  • #31820 Reply

    DS

    Old news most people already heard about it.

    • #31850 Reply

      Jason

      You really took time out of your day to post that?

      Guess there’s one on every forum, congrats cause you’re that person

      • #32074 Reply

        Paul

        I take it DS is not in PA Its not old news Now PSP and Political hacks will have to enjoy the nice big crow sandwich thats been sitting out on the counter for a long time.

    • #31882 Reply

      chuck

      Ds,
      This just happened today. You are talking about the Pa Supreme Court which happened in July. This denial was from the U.S. Supreme Court.

  • #31821 Reply

    Military Injustice Project

    This is good news but we need a case heard in front of SCOTUS, to over turn the Smith decision. But this is a step in the right direction.

    • #31895 Reply

      chuck

      I was thinking the same thing. Too bad that would have meant another 17 months for a decision.

  • #31826 Reply

    A.D.

    What does this mean? Well, for those of you who think this is not good, you do not understand law or the legal process or how Courts slowly change. This is a good decision in the sense that it is following a pattern of other Court because there is empirical data, testimony and statistics that are being considered “expert evidence” (valid evidence that supports a legal position that is irrefutable. Leaving this up to a state’s highest court to decided based on its constitution is not a bad thing. After a few more states go down and other state supreme courts uphold these laws, will create a solid controversy that will be ripe for the U.S. Supreme Court to take up the case. In the past, we were never in a position as good as this. We are dismantling a wall, brick by brick. It will take time. Look at this in a positive light.

    • #31937 Reply

      Cocoa Bliss

      That is very good then Thank you for the explanation. On my part I am going to fight against Louisiana and US represented by a country here which is taking the case to international court against the US ( for human Rights Civil Roght Covenant) as I am overseas . I was in jail for 9months in 1994 when 22 years old and with no other crime but for not registering in LA as I was residing overseas I have a warrant for 20 years with no Lawyer nor defense no hearing rights .So this unconstitutional Megan Law declaration in the state of Pennsylvania will be something we will use against them to fight the case.

  • #31828 Reply

    Cary

    More comments from this NORSAL site on this subject above which favored the hopes to be off the registery and yes, im one of them that will no longer be on the registery. I will be taking off it no later than July but before July. Anyone who challenge against the rulings good luck and it cannot be harsher punishment due to sex offenders have rights too and are people too like it or not. Sex offenders are not a push over people. We won and we fight back in justice and in courts. As for me I will be taking off the registry automaticlly and i dont need to go to court to do so cause my time has been over since 2014. I am so excited and cannot wait to get my name taking off. Im not concerned about any non sex offenders. Never have never will. After my name is gone off the registery im moving to another part of PA changing my phone number email address cars, address, schools, anything that ties me from the past. See ya all as a non sex offender registry. Im going to live my life where i start a new and fresh!!!!!

    • #31839 Reply

      Paul

      Cary
      How are you figuring you’ll be off by July, without filling a writ? New bill will be coming out soon and PSP will prob play dumb and send everyone a letter to comply before they research with cases have to be removed they said 18mo this will take. They have to make sure the person is entitled to relief and if any time on reg is tolled by violations or time in jail. I think we will be better off filling a writ to get off before new bill comes out.

      • #31887 Reply

        chuck

        @ Paul,
        Cary my friend has completed his original sentence years ago and was only still on the registry due to SORNA being applied retroactively. Now that SORNA cannot be applied retroactively, my friend Cary will be removed from the registry. The new bill, called HB1952, only affects those who were sentenced to 25 and lifetime registrations.
        What the Pa general assembly is trying to do is tell those who were sentenced under Megan’s Law 3 they will sentence them to an older version of Megan’s law due to the inability to sentence them to SORNA and Megan’s Law 3 was found to be illegal in Commonwealth v Neiman. Cary is in the clear once he receives his new paperwork.
        Congrats and hello to my friend Cary!!!

        • #32082 Reply

          Paul

          Chuck glad to hear Cary is your friend Please read my comments again and explain to Cary that it will most likely take longer than Cary thinks for them to remove them There are 4000 plus people including me in Carys same boat PSP has to look at each case to verify each one before they are removed PSP stated that will take an estimated 18mo I was trying to ask how Cary thinks they will be removed before July with such certainty because it seems Cary has heard something no one else has.

      • #32293 Reply

        r

        I wouldn’t be jumping for joy just yet , or making any moves so soon. getting off the registry is not going to be making pancakes for breakfast, not only are we going to have to deal with the p.s.p. don’t forget about h.b 1952, don’t be fooled by all the political hoo ha. the fat cat politicians are not gonna pat us on the back and say o we are so sorry, here’s your free pass soooo long. this is far from over, as far as I’m concerned.

        • #32344 Reply

          Paul

          I agree but you’re forgetting those of us that are getting relief are going back to what we originally had when sentenced its in no way a free pass. How would 15 or 25 yr post SORNA people feel if the new bill makes them life?

    • #31935 Reply

      Ranger11bv

      Good for you. I have been waiting since 1999…. But here in AZ were the Women Against the Registry is a joke, you sneeze wrong here your screwed!!

  • #31835 Reply

    Brian

    @Carry
    I started reading your comment and though you started to say your going to move out of pa, I was thinking big mistake because of IML, they will just make you re register unless you go to Michigan but they still haven’t worked everything out their either so you would still have to register there as well, I hope we don’t get stuck like them, but it seams like what I’m hearing from everyone the psp is acting quicker, not like the aholes of Michigan…

    • #31842 Reply

      Paul

      Brian
      What tells you PSP is acting quicker on this?

      • #31888 Reply

        chuck

        @ Paul
        I have personally spoken to PSP Megan’s Law section and as of this afternoon, they are in the process of setting up the process. They recognize that there will be a few people removed, not as many as before HB 1952, and they want to do it as quickly and effectively as possible. The longer people are on the registry that is supposed to be removed, that is a day longer there is a negative spotlight on the registry and PSP does not want that. They rather lose a few people than lose the registry all together.
        They are working as quickly as they can. They still have to wait for the official paperwork, but absent that, they are ready to go.

        • #32149 Reply

          Paul

          Chuck try 4000plus is that a few? Everyone has talk to PSP they are not ready to go they are waiting for new bill to pass not remand of Muniz Everyone needs to file before bill passes.

  • #31838 Reply

    Lovecraft

    Maybe in the next few weeks we can have some lawyers on a conference call to talk about this case and the impact it has on the rc landscape.

    • #31957 Reply

      RobinAdmin

      Good suggestion. I’ll pass this along to Larry.

      • #32088 Reply

        Paul

        Robin I’d look at as more like a necessity at this point then a suggestion

  • #31843 Reply

    Paul

    I was provided a template for a writ to get off reg I am hoping someone is going to provide one like it but also includes cases and info on A.S. to include in order to have two 10yr reg offenses removed one was raised to tire 3 by SORNA

    • #31892 Reply

      chuck

      @ Paul,
      if you were sentenced before 12/20/2012 any upgrade in your sentence is now void. I know this because I am in the same boat. I went from 10 years to 15 years. Now, I will be removed due to Commonwealth v. Neiman and Commonwealth v. Muniz. HB 1952 will not affect those who were sentenced to 10 years before 12/20/2012.
      If you want to file a writ, you have to draft your own motion. There are no templates.

      • #32117 Reply

        Paul

        Chuck I’m not sure you understand I am well aware who is due relief on Muniz and how it works and have read the proposed bill in the senate judiciary now. I was provided a template writ from the NARSOL Pa affiliate via email I am aware my case is due relief but I do not want to leave myself in the hands of the PSP I’d rather the court force their hand sooner maybe before the new bill kicks in because some common sense in this matter shows that what is going to happen is PSP will be mailing out 90day notices to EVERYONE currently on the PA ML website once the new bill gets signed Then they will start to pretend they are going thru the cases that are due relief a removing them so they will play stupid causing people that are due relief to have to go on to the new bill and reg site until PSP decides who can come off remember they said 18mo it will take So then who’s to say they won’t change things up again and make people have to file to prove it See what I’m saying I need to file a writ that includes the information from A.S. and others that shows two or more convictions that called for 10yr reg can not combine to make a life reg unless there was a conviction then time to rehabilitate then another conviction. The writ template I received from the NARSOL affiliate is only for a person with one 10yr reg offense There are many people with two or more due relief Another issue I see is no one is addressing this new bill as it is in Senate now there should be action to force testimony and briefs to defeat Freed’s BS Also there resources to provide help to the 4000plus people due relief should have been in place months back but there is none Yet Halloween is hot topic.

      • #32369 Reply

        Rodney Ferrer

        @ Chuck. Can you email me at rod_ferrer@yahoo.com. Thank you. Rodney Ferrer

  • #31846 Reply

    Brian

    @Paul
    Someone posted that they spoke to psp ml section today, They told them they will start their work within a few weeks trying to figure out how all the changes affect everyone. I read it from one of two good sources.

    • #31854 Reply

      Paul

      Ok I got you thanks

    • #31856 Reply

      Paul

      Just gets me fired up PSP has known for a long time they would have to sort people out and they did nothing they should have this all done prob already do just saying they don’t just want more funds to pay OT and hire new people I hope the truth comes out and a suit is filed.

      • #31896 Reply

        chuck

        @ Paul
        I agree with you. Like I told them, you have known for over 6 months this could be an outcome.They could have researched and found out “ok this many of the 15 years will be affected and their name and address are…..” etc for each tier. Oh well, typical government procedure. They do not plan or do anything until they have to.

  • #31855 Reply

    Cary

    For those who need to go to court to be taking off it may take 18 months. But people who automatically be taking off the registery will be immediately as soon as they figure how the HB 1952 bill works which before july hits

    • #31867 Reply

      Paul

      PSP said they need 18mo to determine who is effected by Muniz so how would your case be different and why are you assuming PSP will figure out who goes on new law before they just send letters out to everyone on reg now. If PSP said they need 18mo to figure out all the cases and the new law kicks in soon how will they know who gets automatic removal there is no automatic removal everyone due relief will have to wait until PSP gets around to it and by the looks of it the 18mo starts in a few weeks. The only people getting off are the ones that had enhancements from SORNA increasing their time. The PSP has to see how much time your case has been tolled for any violations or time in jail after your original case and make sure that Muniz applies to your case nothing automatic about it The new bill says anyone that their time has expired PSP has to prove your time has expired everyone due relief is in the same 18mo boat. Only way to speed it up is a writ to the court forcing them to do it quicker.

      • #31897 Reply

        chuck

        Paul, it will not take 18 months. Until 2012, when sorna was coming into effect once they started it took them a few months to notify everyone.

        • #32119 Reply

          Paul

          Chuck no one said 18mo to notify PSP said 18mo to figure out who can come off reg did you read what I said People have their hopes because no one reads things

    • #31879 Reply

      Rodney Ferrer

      Hi Cary, can you explain it a little more for me. Thank you.

  • #31853 Reply

    Cary

    I never said i was leaving PA. Just another part of PA. As for me getting off the registry automatically is due to me being sentenced in 1999 and my 10 years of 2014 and registration for me started in 2003. The psp does not follow calender year it required an extra year. But my sentence is only for 10 years originally until SORNA kicked in. Now the HB 1952 bill if you read it threw. It states for those who has been originated original sentence that time been served on the registery the HB 1952 bill will NOT be applied and will be taking off the registery automatically. For those who still time remains will be on the HB 1952. Those who are remained on the HB 1952 will have to go to court and apply to be taking off the registery. Please read the bill. It explains that part in the simplest form. I as well had spoken to PSP and they are saying they are going to start taking people off before July hits.

    • #31908 Reply

      terry brunson

      @ Cary
      Finally someone on here understands the judicial determination of HB 1952 Amen.

      I filed Mandamus Write 13 Oct 2017 and I almost got taken off the court docket of 463 MD 2017 for not servicing PAG and PSP by certified mail by R.A.P. rules 1514(c) but thank God for R.A.P. rule 1532(b) which I filed proof of service on January 5, 2018 by certified mail. I am in wait of PAG and PSP response to my brief on Muniz and Reed, and Nieman, I am one who will be negatively affected by the passing of HB 1952 and I amended my brief to reflect the Ex post facto elements and the reputation shaming elements of postin =g me on PSP web-site and lack of due process rights to challenge facts on how am I a danger to public just by being by statue under Megan’s Law – I also fight had showing that as of 20 December 2012 all old Megan’s Laws were expired and are today not enforceable laws to Per-SORNA RSO’s in this Commonwealth.

      I will not have to wait no 18 months – if the PAG and the PSP ask for 30 days extension I will object on base that summary relief should have no delays at all. I am under unconstitutional oppression that need conjunctive relief now. Mandamus is meant to mandate justice in the Now.

      The PSP wants to begin Muniz removal at their pace. they want HB 1952 in place when they start – so they can keep pre -SORNA people that are not done with their time and non SVP lifetime people and SVP pre-SORNA on the registry and force a judicial determination court challenge that they will appeal. There is an automatic stay in the HB 1952 that will keep
      pre-SORNA people on the registry even when the judicial determination has been made and ordered. The PSP plans to appeal all the way to the SCOTUS. And the lower courts will put on ecag case NON-PRECEDENT CASE. . . . . Meaning it only applies to that individual…….

      MUNIZ is not a NON-PRECEDENT case court – it is a PRECEDENT Case that all can use under equal protections of Law rights. NON – PRECEDENT cases have no equal protection rights but for that person it applies to.

      I try to explain this to Chuck and other on this site but I don’t think they understand the depth of this fight to keep RSO’s on the registry at any cost to justice and all ways to undermine justice on this issue.

      I been studying this fight since the Law Library days in Texas. And I am in the Temple Law Library now fighting to cut the PAG and PSP off at the pass. I have a spiritual connection to this fight and I have been chosen to take on HB 1952 to fight it from the door. It is not Law yet. PSP will give all 90 days notice when this HB 1952 become law to re-register under this new Pre-SORNA law if your time has not expired on a TEN year bi or NoN SVP life time or SVP . . . . . If your time has expired and you get relief from MUNIZ – that is the Judical determination that will protect you all but not those who still have tine to do on the registry as time remaining or Life time non SVP and SVP. I tried to explain it if you don’t understand mw- you will understand how the PAG abd PSP will apply HB 1952 . . . . I am done talking I got to get back to the Court fight…. Terry Brunson

      • #32127 Reply

        Paul

        Terry I agree with you but PSP will take as long as they can most people have no money to file a writ wheres the help watch and see what they pull We all know they could have this all ready to go by now but watch what they do They will make it look like a big deal to get more money and take forever and people will have to go on to new bill instill they figure it all out

      • #32131 Reply

        Paul

        Terry awesome bro let me know if I can help the fight I hope others see we need to get senate to put the breaks on this People are keeping this under the rug

      • #32370 Reply

        Rodney Ferrer

        @ Terry Brunson, my name is Rodney Ferrer. Can you email @ rod_ferrer@yahoo.com please. I would like to connect with you. Thank you

    • #32135 Reply

      Paul

      Cary do you think they will get to all 4000 plus people including me and you and remove them by July? Even though PSP is saying they need 18mo to do that?

  • #31861 Reply

    Cary
    • #31868 Reply

      Paul

      PSP has to
      1. look at each case and decide if it is due relief from Muniz

      2. Then they have to find out if you had time tolled on your reg time

      3. Then they will take you off.

      During the PA house Judiciary hearing with Freed and PSP, PSP stated they will need up to 18mo to go over all the cases that means the people with a 10yr raised to 15, 25, or life person is going to wait until PSP gets to review their case There is no red button they push to automatically remove people

      The people that need a so called judicial determination have nothing to do with the 18mo PSP was saying they need.

      • #31901 Reply

        chuck

        Paul
        that was a max time which started in July and they were just guessing. SORNA notification did not take that long.

        • #32150 Reply

          Paul

          Chuck why do you keep talking about notification ? I’m talking about removal from the site. The 18 mo hasn’t even started yet they have done nothing yet.

  • #31871 Reply

    Chris in Baltimore

    Hello, Im new to this site and not familiar with a lot of ideas and concepts to which this article/ post refers, so I’m hoping someone could answer a basic question; Did the PA Supreme court rule that being placed on the state’s s.o. registry is a form of punishment and therefore not constitutional? Is it ever constitutional to continue punishing ANY convicted felon after their time in prison/probation is up and they’ve pay their so-called debt to society? And why is it okay for retroactively placed regisrants to get removed but not the rest of us? Thanks for any clarification anyone might offer.

    • #31874 Reply

      Paul

      Punishment is not unconstitutional unless they apply it to a person after they have been convicted So in the Muniz case it only gives relief to people convicted before SORNA was effective 2012 People convicted after that were put on SORNA right away so they knew about it and its punishments People before they added the punishment see the difference Technically I think it goes by the date you commit the crime. There is other ways the whole reg can be challenged still but this was about ex post facto application of punishment.

    • #31902 Reply

      chuck

      Chris,
      They rules the registry was punitive so therefore they could not apply it retroactively. Which means if you were sentenced before 12/20/2012 you cannot be held to the more restrictive rules of SORNA. The reason why everyone is in such a tissy is that if the registry is punishment, then it cannot be cruel and unusual. All these years the court has said the registry is cruel and unusual BUT is not a criminal penalty rather a civil one and as such is exempted from the 8th amendment. So by calling the registry punishment, it sets up a huge legal fight in a few years when someone challenges the registry as being punitive and cruel and unusual. The 10 circuit court did this in September on the federal level as an applied case which means the ruling only applies to those named in the suit.

    • #31905 Reply

      chuck

      The case in from of the court dealt only with the retroactive application of the law. The next fight, and there will be another fight, will be about the registry itself.

  • #31877 Reply

    Stew

    This decision is a step in the right direction. Quite frankly reading between the lines of Muniz the Court has said that any public website is equal to shaming and violates Article I, Section 1 of the PA Constitution. Yes, right now it is quite possible that ALL persons on the registry arrested before 12/20/2012 will be taken off of the registry because SORNA is punitive and cannot be applied retroactively. In Com. v. Butler, the Superior Court ruled that because of Muniz the ENITRE SORNA scheme is unconstitutional because you cannot sever it’s parts. It kind of all works together as a whole. So time will tell, pray, hope for the best and let the wheels of justice turn!

  • #31881 Reply

    Cary

    Paul, obviously you did not read the bill directly and correctedly. Once again HB 1952 will take into effect immediately. As soon as psp gets the bill they are to start working on it. Each county in PSP will be on the same boat. They can pull out from each county not very many in certain county like mine. My psp county has about 1,200 registered sex offenders. It does not take 18 months for those who have their time past due over the 10 year mark to be automatically be taking off the registery. Each county will be shifting threw people on the registery. Not just a few psp people to shift threw in Harrisburg. Each county will send out paper work as soon as possible to Harrisburg and they get it in and they go and remove people in stacks. Not just 1 big stack of all county for the entire state. If so then it will take more than 18 months for everyone at the same time to be effectively on HB 1952 bill. It starts immediately. There is no delay. PSP just wants to get it done as fast as they can. They are not going to drag feet and sit on there chairs looking at each person carefully all in 1 big stack of all of PA registery. I have a great friend of mine who works in PSP in the section of the sex offender registery that has been updated. He said, that every PSP worker is updated on things and he deals with the registry. He does not work in my county but he works next county over. He has been working there ever since SORNA kicked in. I am not an Attorney or nor did i ever worked for PSP or anything of its contents. I am just a great friend who works at the psp sex offender registry part of it. Im going by what he said to me earlier within 8 hours ago. Before that a few days ago he had no updates on anything but whats going on at the time. PSP will be updating things and it will appear on the psp website in sex offender registry section once it is fully functional on their part on the HB 1952. Until then it remains the same. Im now going to sit and just read everyon’s comments and just enjoy the readings. This will be my last post for a while. I will post one more time once im off the registry.

    • #32141 Reply

      Paul

      Not just a few? you should watch the PA house judiciary hearing with Freed and PSP they have only 8 people in total to do go thru all this mess PSP testified to this anymore questions

    • #32142 Reply

      Paul

      LOL so now your saying each county has to go thru every criminal case find each sex offender then determine which ones are due relief then send to Harrisburg then they start taking people off reg but they have to wait for new bill to kick in for some reason? Wow Here is where the problem is your so called friend if they do not work in the ML sec in Harrisburg then they don’t know squat how this works. Sounds like Perry co maybe the guy who does updates on the machine at the barracks? Anyway PSP ML sec will go thru each case they have most likely each PSP ML person has a section of the alphabet just like when you call they go by your name to transfer you to someone. The person then has to go thru each case and decide who is due relief then how long the person has been on reg less any time in jail or time tolled, then remove them and again PSP has testified they need 18mo to do this.

    • #32138 Reply

      Paul

      Cary do you know how they are going to take people off the reg did they tell you how they are going to do it? When you call PSP ML sec do they ask what county your in or do they ask what letter your last name starts with Why id this so hard to understand? PSP said they need 18mo Why are you making things up PSP will drag this out as long as they can

    • #32139 Reply

      Paul

      So you are saying PSP is waiting for the bill to pass before they remove anyone? LOL they have to act as soon as Muniz gets remanded. Forget the new bill it doesn’t exist right now. PSP said 18mo to go thru all cases to give relief to people per Muniz new bill has nothing to do with it Now your saying they are waiting on a bill that doesn’t even exist yet? I call a RED FLAG on this Wake up people File a writ now Don’t risk your freedom on what someones imaginary friend from PSP says I smell a mole.

  • #31891 Reply

    Cary

    As for me one other post in my case only as i know and my friend from psp say my case is not going to be need a so called judicial determination and have nothing to do with the 18mo PSP was saying they need to get those who are left on the registery of the HB 1952 bill. I am not going to speak for everyone else because im not a psp worker nor an attorney and i am only speaking on my behalf in my case and situation. For the rest of you all im not sure how or when cause i do not know your situations and things and i dont want to take the time to look at all your cases cause im not an attorney or work for one. Im only going by what my friend in psp sex offender registry had told me. That’s all im saying. You all can say what you want and thats ok. Everyone has their own unique way of knowing whats going on with your own cases.

    • #32234 Reply

      Paul

      Cary I am not sure why you think your cases is different than the 4000 plus cases due relief from Muniz all those people have 10yr reg with has expired. The time PSP is asking for and stated they need is 18 mo to go thru the cases just like yours and mine Somehow you think your different because you know a trooper in the next co. The bill has nothing to do with PSPs plan to slow this down for cases like mine and yours they want to hire more people and get more money and drag it out as long as they can so then they can bring in the new law if it gets passed and then use the bill and the courts to delay people even more all under the guise of not having time to make sure your case is ready to be approved to come off make any sense When you make up things like getting off by July with no facts that creates false hope for people that may be in the process of filing a writ to force PSP to comply with the PASC When Chuck tells people they will not have to finish their 10yrs it keeps people from filing a writ when they can get off reg now that there is a denial of cert and no law to go back on thats a small window of opportunity for them. If people have the ability to file pro se or hire an attorney to file they should do so now if they are pre SORNA NARSOL should have har resources in place long ago for these thousands in PA due relief I am beginning to see an effort to sweep this stuff under the rug.

  • #31906 Reply

    J. Smith

    Florida. Offense in January 1997. Sentenced April 1998 to regular probation (no jail time; no such thing as sex offender probation at that time). Was told TWICE by attorney prior to sentencing that I would NOT be designated as a sex offender and would NOT be subject to sex offender registration and public notification, and he advised me to enter a plea of guilty, which I did based on HIS advice that I did NOT qualify for SO registration, etc. After 30 days to appeal had passed, probation office then informed me they would be taking my photo and all my info would be posted on Florida’s sex offender website for the entire world to see. Called attorney right away. He stated he did not know they were doing this and that he would file a lawsuit or appeal, and reiterated a THIRD time that I did not qualify for registration and public notification. Needless to say, he dropped the ball. I had absolutely no clue about any other legal remedies available (habeus corpus, etc.) and, even had I known, was flat broke. The attorney later admitted that he misrepresented me in court. Needless to say, ALL State and Federal statutes enacted since then have been retroactively applied to me, subjecting both my family and me to one hellish nightmare!

  • #31911 Reply

    terry brunson

    The PSP is is not going to follow the PASC mandate update. . . . They what to wait for HB 1952 passing. In that wait Unconstitutional injustice is going on. July 19, 2017 was the effective date of MUNIZ and 17 Oct 2017 was the 90 effective date to apply MUNIZ in the Commonwealth.

    What is the wait for now 22 JANUARY 2018 is the Federal Cert denial date. . .

    I will tell you what the wait is for now. Pa. Senate vote on HB 1952 to move to Governor’s desk. For signature . . . . That may happen in Feb or March 2018. They the PSP will have a law to back their actions. . . . They have a law now. . It is called Muniz decision – The PASC will issue their mandate within 10 days from 22 January 2018.

    We are talking 5 Feb 2018 a mandate order will go to the PAG office on Muniz from the PASC return of MUNIZ from the SCOTUS. The PAG must give instructions to PSP immediately to follow Muniz order. The PSP don’t like MUNIZ decision, so they will make up a 18 month delay excuse to pan through case by case 21,000 RSO files to see who MUNIZ helps. It will be mostly people that got 10 years Megan’s Law increased to 15 or 25 or Non SVP life.

    These have automatic removal hands donwn. . . . And this is the Muniz fix the PSP knows – After that then the Pre- Sorna people that have time leaft on their TEN years. Then therer is the Non SVP liftime people and the SVP’s.

    They will get the HB 1952 treatment – of needing a judicial determination from a court – PSP will appeal that determination to PASC on an applied case which means the ruling only applies to those named in the appeal. Same as NON-PRECEDENT . . . . . application THIS IS B_LL SH_T-

    a WRIT OF MANDAMUS WOULD STOP ALL THIS IN IT’S TRACKS. And a call for summary relief under R.A.P. Rules 1532 (a) and (b) to commonwealth Court in Harrisburg which is the first level of appeal court that can hear issue by taking Jurisdiction from a trial court or court of common plea in SORNA matters to madate to PSP follow HB 1952 instructions on page 9 lines 24 – 30 . Page 109 or 111 in edited HB 1952 and page 57 lines 8 through 9 about the MUNIZ case application of Law to all not just some pre-SORNA people. Don’t for get the service the PAG and the PSP by R.A.P. rule 1514(c) certified mail . Filing fee is $65.50 by money order.
    terry brunson

    • #31974 Reply

      Chuck

      Terry,
      Of course PSP will follow the Muniz Decision. They are a law enforcement agency. Until they are told otherwise, they will do what they have to.

      • #32166 Reply

        Paul

        Chuck I’m sorry but you have annoyed me I see you are the source of telling people that haven’t finished their ten yrs they would get done early only to now correct that info also saying PSP will do their job everyone knows they will do their job when forced to when it comes to Muniz and the reg but the real issue is they are costing the tax payers millions and peoples lives are ruined by the reg They enforce laws but somehow they think they have a right to fight people and the courts, they have a bias way a skew of the imaginary line you portray them adhering too. The safest action is for everyone PRE SORNA to flood the courts now with writs for relief don’t wait for PSPs deviation to zero out it may be to late.

      • #32363 Reply

        Paul

        @Terry I would like to nominate you to the board of directors NARSOL is this something you would be interested in?

    • #32218 Reply

      Carol S

      Terry:
      There are a dozen plus of us in PA forming PaRSOL and getting to work on these issues. We meet monthly via Vsee.
      A couple members got help developing templates for filings to get off the list. But you are right about the PSP, PBPP and our legislators. We in PA must all write our legislators, insist on being heard, and use media to expose what they are doing. Email me if you want to be on our list for updates, meetings, etc.
      Carol mbcor0305@aol.com

      • #32262 Reply

        Paul

        Carol Thank you great work Thanks Thanks Thanks

    • #32245 Reply

      Paul

      Terry we need to get everyone in the courts now flood the courts everyone pre SORNA is due relief now. Unless PSP gives a firm procedure and time line on this stating they are not waiting for new bill We have to act ASAP NARSOL should have had resources available months ago to the thousands due relief in PA. I have a IA7 and a SAC possession from 2003 both 10yr plead and convicted same dates and hearings. We need templates for people with a single 10yr and another for people that have two or more 10yr that are due relief from A.S. as well as Muniz. We can not count on PSP not fighting this because you can see they chose not to define the two or more clause kept the same as old bills even though they know the high court ruled the two or more has to be separate convictions separated by a period of time to reform I can almost promise you PSP will play stupid or delay on this all over again. We need to help all these people now. I can’t believe no one is seeing this happen before our eyes

  • #31912 Reply

    Brian

    Why is everyone saying to file mandamus now even people e who are suposedly coming off automatically, I am very confused,

    • #31975 Reply

      Chuck

      @Brian
      Becuase they are scared. They don’t want to wait. Patience it will all work out.

  • #31913 Reply

    obvious answers

    The supreme court refuses to do their jobs.. Not really a shock..
    Same decision they made in Michigan and other states..Sometimes it benefits sometimes it crucify..But in all cases it refuses to correct an evil. ..
    They realize what they have been doing has been criminally illegal but like the rest of the government no one wants to touch it with a ten foot pole..It is a Pandora box mess…. If they correct it the publicity in the media will fry them but if they dont correct it then it will continue to get worse because of the slippery congressmen who will keep adding legislation after legislation as cover for their criminal activity.. ..You will always know when a congressman has been accused of criminal behavior..they quickly place a get tough on sex offender legislation on the docket..
    What is the answer?

    • #31960 Reply

      RobinAdmin

      The outcome in Snyder (Michigan) was a victory for registered citizens in the Sixth Circuit. The outcome in Muniz is a victory for registered citizens in PA. If this means that SCOTUS isn’t doing its job, then let’s pray that it continues NOT doing its job. But, I think you may misunderstand the significance of the Court’s rejection in both these cases.

  • #31934 Reply

    Ranger11bv

    SCOTUS will not hear ANY SO cases because they KNOW that the muli-billion $ question will be asked: Is the “unfrightenly high” 80% still relevant? They dont want to answer that!! Cause then they would be forced to say no and ALL of the SO laws would be null and void!!!

    • #31945 Reply

      FredAdmin

      That is 100% false. That is not how SCOTUS operates. SCOTUS didn’t grant cert because they didn’t see anything that needed their attention and correction. In other words, they decided that PA’s Supreme Court got it right.

      If they had granted cert., that would had been bad news for registrants everywhere , because that would likely mean SCOTUS saw something they disagree with and will reverse PA’s ruling.

      SCOTUS gets 1000s of petitions every year. They don’t take cases just to confirm to the world that they agree with the lower courts ruling.

      Last year SCOTUS reversed a lower court ruling to favor North Carolina registrants.

      • #31946 Reply

        Ranger11bv

        Really?? So IF SCOTUS did admit that the “80%” remark and all its laws made because of it were false and illegal, then what??

        • #31958 Reply

          RobinAdmin

          SCOTUS never admits getting anything wrong. Don’t hold your breath for that. What SCOTUS has done in the past is correct a previous mistake by recognizing the evolution of understanding about a legal question and then applying a new rule. But no sitting Court will ever deign to question the dignity or credibility of a previous slate of justices even when it becomes patently obvious that the previous Court’s decision was in error.

        • #32224 Reply

          Henry

          We are now faced with two fights. SORNA caused a a lot of problems when it made everything connected with it retroactive in February 2017. It was a new scheme and should have never been applied to anyone who’s conviction was prior to it’s date of enactment. However, we also have to deal with Smith v. Doe, the SCOTUS decision of 2003 which states that sex offenders info can seen publicly and they can and did make it retroactive.

          Even if we win on the SORNA issue with all it’s over-broad craziness, we still have to fight SMITH. The Answer to it all is what recently happened in the Federal Courts in Colorado. The judge dealt with both SORNA for making the draconian laws retroactive but also dealt with the SMITH issue by understanding that due to the way the public treated RC’s, it’s became an unconstitutional issue by letting the public met out punishment. That task is reserved for the states and the federal government, supposedly with oversight. The use of the internet for vigilanty purposes and the stigmatized view given to RSO’s, were not thought of when SMITH was decided in 2003. This case is now on it’s way to the 10th Circuit. I hope they reverse the decision of Judge Matsch. That should set us up for a cert by SCOTUS.

        • #32324 Reply

          Paul

          Great point Henry lets hope the 10th stops the Nazi parallel.

        • #32811 Reply

          Tod

          @Henry, we do not want the 10th to over turn Matsch’s decision, we want them to agree with it, this has several affects – from what I understand – that it agrees with the 6th circuit, which SCOTUS also agreed with by not hearing, which may tip the table enough for SCOTUS to finally hear and decide on the registry. If they over turn it, or parts of it, it may be very difficult, if not impossible for it to go back to SCOTUS – but I guess it is possible, and then maybe once and for all they determine our fate. But if they uphold it, then it will be up to the state/AG to take it to SCOTUS, and that is a crap shoot at this time. Matsch’s ruling was strong in many ways including quoting from things a long time ago. From what I also understand, that this ruling was only for a few people, and would apply only to them, but would set the table for everyone else. As hard as it was for me to hear, no matter what happens, as mentioned with PA and other cases, this one will be YEARS before anything is completely decided, if it ever is before I die. I still have several years of my min 10 before I can petition (mine dates back to 2002), I may hit that before anything happens on this level – UNLESS, there are other cases that are ex post facto in the 10th or nationally – Matsch’s ruling was on the registry as a whole, not just ex post facto – huge difference. Either way, it all sucks and will be a very long time before most of us are truly free.

      • #31976 Reply

        Chuck

        Not only did they take the case, but it was an unanimous decision since Goursch did not take part because he was not in the court when oral argument was heard. Do you know how hard it is to get a unanimous decision???

        • #32164 Reply

          Paul

          Decision on what, are you talking a bout denial of cert? Not hard to get everyone to agree to that.

        • #32226 Reply

          chuck

          @ Paul
          I am talking about Packingham v North Carolina. It went to oral argument and North Carolina lost. The state cannot ban sex offenders from social media.

      • #31993 Reply

        Joseph

        Hear! Hear!

    • #32029 Reply

      Chuck

      You Sir, should be ashamed of yourself. SCOTUS and other courts have certainly taken up Sex Offender cases. They denied the petition becuase they were saying “the lower court was right!!!!!” This was a PRIME opportunity for them to uphold Smith v Doe if they have a closed mind as you imply. 2 of the justices still in the court were on the court when Smith v Doe was decided. Just like Kennedy said in Packinhsnm v North Carolina, the Internet has changed. It is completely different than it was 14 almost 15 years ago. For example, in 2003, my main purpose for using the Internet was gaming, chat rooms, and dating. Now, it’s going to school, doing my taxes, paying my bills, and doing my banking. Not to mention staying caught up on the news.
      This denial set up the BIG ONE. They say SCOTUS says not only is Megans Law, no matter what you want to call it, considered punishment but it is also cruel and unusual. Within, 5 years I think we will be there.

      Change happens in small increments. Yes, it sucks this decision only apply to Pa. I am registered in 2 states, Pa and NY becuase once you register in Ny, even if you move out of state, you have to continue until your time is up. So I am affected in both ways. The silver lining is being a tier 1 in NY there is no public info about me. You have to be a tier 2 or 3 for the state to release your info.
      SCOTUS did what they should have done which is to deny the petition seeking review. There were is no issues that were brought up in Pa’s brief that deserved the attention of the court. This, cert was properly denied.
      Don’t worry our day will come. I can remember people saying “Smith v Doe will NEVER fall, period. Now Look. It just fell with a loud thud.

      Sometimes what SCOTUS doesn’t say, is just as strong as what they do say. By denying Cert, they were saying Smith v Doe isn’t the infallible precendent it once was. They knew EXACTLY what they were doing when they denied Cert.

  • #31952 Reply

    Teresa Salazar

    The entire system against sex offenders is outrageous. My son was sentenced in Arizona to 15 years for “attempted” molestation and received lifetime probation. There are others in the prison that got promiscuous with their girlfriends and received sentences of 8 to 10 years. One girlfriend got pregnant, comes to the prison for visits with ther child, who is now 4 years old!! Of course, the girls received no charges…but, of course, those private prisons just have to be filled up pursuant to the contract with the State of Arizona…what a blasted sham the system is. Wish the real stories of these men could be put in a nationwide television documentary…this is not justice in these United States. So, so sad.

    • #31963 Reply

      Teresa Salazar

      Oh…forgot to add that both the man and woman were teenagers when they became involved and the State waited until the man was 18 to prosecute as adults. I am writing and I care because I am a mom…and we families suffer right along with our family members who are charged with a sexual offense…we spend years traveling to prisons to visit and money for phone calls, SecurePaks, etc., because we love our kids…and we cry and worry a lot….and with all the sex offenses committed in the highest offices in our country…why aren’t those congressmen and others in prison?? Sorry to be going on and on…but my heart is hurting…and by the time my son walks out I will be 85 and will have lost so much time with him. Justice is truly blind.

  • #31972 Reply

    Chris in Baltimore

    Thanks guys for answering my questions. And for There’s a., your son is lucky to have you in his life.

  • #31985 Reply

    Tom

    It has been 6 months since the Muniz decision was rendered in favor of Jose Muniz. Then the state had 90 days to apply for Certiorari. They took all 90 days. Then 30 days later the PSP filed a brief in support which extended the decision for another month. After which the lawyer for Muniz filed a brief in opposition(very well thought out and well written brief by the way). Another 30 day extension. We have waited 6 months for the Supreme Court to deny Certiorari. How much longer do we need to wait for the PSP to take us off? The SORNA letter showed up the day the law took effect. Obviously the State could make this result happen immediately if they wanted to. How long would it take to get a list of all SO’s living within 5 miles of a crime that happened? Enter the parameters and push the button.

    • #32016 Reply

      Chuck

      Hi Tom,
      PSP is working on getting everything set up as we speak. They have to wait till they receive the official go adhead from the courts and the Attrorney General. You have to remember until they receive official word, it would be illegal for them to remove anyone. Until the official paperwork comes through, there is no ruling officially. Just s matter of waiting for the paperwork so they can start. No Biggie!!!

      • #32153 Reply

        Paul

        Wow chuck do you work for PSP that is amazing Are you aware PSP fights everyone trying to get off the reg ? They even got leg to include them in the new bill

        • #32228 Reply

          chuck

          @ Paul,
          No, I do not work for PSP. I just stay informed. I call PSP all the time to stay informed. Anyone can call the PSP Megan’s Law Section.

        • #32256 Reply

          Paul

          Chuck FYI everyone on hear has talked to PSP ML prob more then once They don’t tell anyone anything If you want real info call Aaron Marcus I have and his info is much different so do everyone a favor and don’t trust what PSP is saying over the phone

  • #31991 Reply

    terry brunson

    The PSP will take its instructions from the PAG office on MUNIZ – We have to give the SCOTUS its time to return the record of Muniz back to PASC pathanotary clerk so the PASC cab write an order to the PAG to instruct the PSP on Muniz decision.

    I don’t think the PSP has a good faith to follow the MUNIZ decision. They wrote a Brief against it and the PSP want HB 1952. It puts people back under old Megan’s law requirements striped of all punitive element to make HB 1952 PASC friendly. The PSP are in bed with Freed and the Pa. Judaical committee who came up with HB 1952.

    They need the PASC justices to go back to doing things like before. The only thing in the way is the PASC Muniz decision that was not made NON-PRECEDENT. Muniz is a law of the land mark case all can demand law protection under to get relief from.

    The PASC spoke loud to vote MUNIZ in at a 5 to 1 vote. The whole court agreed that MUNIZ was the line case that the PASC is tire of Pa. Assembly adding new requirements – I heard it in the comments during the Reed oral argument. The Justices wanted the AG to answer a simple question on the Pa. Constitution Article 1 Section 1 Reputation rights of shaming by PA. website. The AG did not know the Pa. Constitution reference of Article 1 Section 1. That is like not knowing Genesis 1:1 – “In the Beginning God created the Word.”

    The people at the guard of implementing Sex offender Laws are not Constitutionally sound one the right of Sex offenders.

    The HB 1952 will meet its end by the hand of the MUNIZ decision in the end. That case will trouble all in Pa. court system to shut down all the attempts to make it seem as if Muniz never happen. That is going to be hard to do. The PSP and the PAG have put in HB 1952 a stay appeal. Stays are issued by court decisions on appeal not by statue laws. HB 1952 states clear that none of its requirements are meant to be Punitive. – when the results of the requirements are punitive in application of being applied retroactively only to Pre-SORNA people with offense dates after 22 April 1996 and Before 20 December 2012. Read the Pa. Constitution Article 1 Section 26 on Commonwealth sub agencies discriminating against a class group of people known as Pre-SORNA people. HB 1952 points out only one group in it prejudice application. Read it and you should see it……..

    The Pa. registry violates reputation shaming – that is what got Reed off the registry. Pa. Constitution Article 1 Section 1 . It is the rule that is going to kill the registry in about 5 more years. . . . . . . .

    • #32017 Reply

      Chuck

      Hi Terry,
      Guess we are all over here now!!! I agree PSP hates the Muniz Decision and they do not want to remove names. HOWEVER, they have to follow the law. Like it or not, they will do their jobs. You just better believe they are not removing anyone a second earlier than they have to. Which is ok. It shows that they will do their duty, even though they think the courts are wrong.

    • #32073 Reply

      chuck

      Hi Terry,
      I did not know you have to register every 3 months. I register every year. That would be a pain to have to go down to the PSP barracks every 3 months.
      I hope you get your writ soon.

    • #32154 Reply

      Paul

      Thanks Terry for your time and in put LOL you’re talking about curve ball DOBO the ADA on reeds case That was funny

  • #31996 Reply

    Tom

    Yes. I noticed that Reed is off the registry but Gilbert is stilll on. How did that happen?

  • #32013 Reply

    Brian

    @Terry Brunson
    About how long do you think it will take SCOTUS to return record back to pa and also how long do you think the AG will take to order psp to start removing and whatnot. You have a good plan for HB 1952 that’s for sure. It will get knocked down quickly with what your doing.

    • #32035 Reply

      Chuck

      @ Brian
      My guess, and this is solely my opinion, I figure it will take most of February for all the back and forth that needs to be done. By End of February to Early March, PSP should have their Marching Orders.

      • #32047 Reply

        Brian

        Thanks Chuck
        Terry probably has his nose in some books at the legal library. Another long day but good day, 1 day closer to being on this sht

  • #32018 Reply

    Chuck

    To the Mods,
    Stating in the title “SCOTUS declines to hear Muniz” makes it sound like they rejected Jose Muniz when the opposite is true. Perhaps “SCOTUS declines to hear Pa’s Muniz’s appeal” would be better.
    Please reply.

  • #32030 Reply

    kc

    im going to make a prediction and say that the AG is going to drag feet until HB1952 is in place to issue orders to PSP.
    then come election time (when as few as possible have been removed) AG will say “I KEPT OUR CHILDREN SAFE FROM DANGEROUS PREDITORS VOTE FOR ME”
    Nunquam Perpeti Tyrannis

    • #32036 Reply

      Chuck

      KC,
      I agree that no one in the government of Pa is ‘happy’ with this decision. Are they going to completed their job ASAP. Meh, maybe not so quick, but it is there duty, the Attorney General and PSP to uphold the law. Which they will do. With all their effort? Maybe not, but they will do their job. They do believe in the rule of law, which means you have to enforce what they Law is no matter if you like it or not.

      • #32052 Reply

        kc

        Chuck
        I will not argue the point that they are honor/duty bound to do their job. And at one point in my life I held the PSP in high regard. Even had aspirations of becoming a trooper
        That being said.
        When gay marriage was declared legal in this state, the courthouses were packed the next day.
        When 18,000 of us were deemed to be subjected to unconstitutional punishment the politicians started finding ways around the ruling.
        I feel that our liberation or condemnation hangs in the balance of HB1952.
        Muniz case effected pre December-20-2012… off of registry
        HB1952 states a lot of IF….THEN……UNLESS
        Muniz was a victory, but in a single battle.
        HB1952 is “THE GADGET” to our Hiroshima

  • #32037 Reply

    Tom

    Thanks for your reply Chuck
    How do you know the PSP is getting ready to take people off the registry. Did they make an announcement? And if they do nothing who will criticize them. They would be doing a “public service”

    • #32046 Reply

      Chuck

      Hi Tom,
      PSP has a Megan’s Law section and I spoke to them yesterday. They told me they are preparing but obviously they can’t do anything until everything is officially go. They will take some time, however they will start with in a reasonable amount of time.

    • #32051 Reply

      Chuck

      Tom,
      They have a court order. They can’t just ‘do nothing’ However, it is plausible HB 1952 being passed could affect who gets off. Trust me, they are not goin to simply ‘ignore’ a court order. It is possible that they may receive an order that 1952 counteracts Muniz, but that is not ignoring Muniz.
      You have to remember that PSP is a law enforcement agency. They will enforce what is the law. Currrently, the Law is SORNA being appilied retroactively is Legal. Yes SCOTUS has made its decision but it is not official yet. As soon as someone with authority, the attorney general, tells them that the law has changed, they will enforce the new law.
      I grant you they hate the SCOTUS decision, and they may remove people with a grumbling attitude, but they will do it if that is the law.
      Patience my brothers. It sucks waiting but we have to give them the chance to do their job. Everyone involved. Unfortunately, that takes time.
      Remember it is possible that the AG says ‘HB 1952 cancels out Muniz”. If that happens, PSP will not ‘ignore’ Muniz but be forced to enforce 1952.
      See the difference?

  • #32039 Reply

    mike . m

    @chuck

    so let me get this right you aswell as myself was sentenced 10 years then moved to 15 so we should get off right sept 7th 2010 was my day

    • #32045 Reply

      Chuck

      Mike,
      Yes, HB 1952 and the SCOTUS Denial allows us to be removed without finishing our 10 years. They might change HB 1952 due to the SCOTUS decision. HOWEVER, , it is VITAL you continue as normal until you have paper in hand. DO NOT stop until you have the paper in hand that says you may stop. I don’t care if the governor himself told you to stop, do not stop until you receive the paper in the mail.

      • #32058 Reply

        kc

        Chuck
        forgive my possible ignorance, having read HB1952 I have failed to see where those of us who have yet to complete our initial registration period but were sentenced prior to 12-20-2012 get off.
        In my reading of the bill it seems to loudly state that we will be returned to our original registration periods with credit issued for time served.
        That is what I read, but I am not a lawyer

        • #32069 Reply

          chuck

          KC,
          Section 3 of HB 1952 states that if a court finds that a judicial determination will relieve the 10 year people of their responsibility to finish their 10-year sentence. Some people believe that “judicial determination” includes the denial of cert by SCOTUS, others believe you will have to go before a judge a pled your case. I believe the correct interpretation is that the denial of cert for the Muniz Case covers the judicial determination. Does not make sense to make everyone go to court just to push paperwork since there is no question of the denial of cert means.

        • #32156 Reply

          Paul

          Chuck stop telling people that, its, insane no one is getting of reg before their 10yrs is up. The judicial determination is for the court to allow people to get off after 25yrs to petition the court, how can you think they would allow a 10yr person of early? Man

        • #32250 Reply

          chuck

          @ Paul
          Actual the text of HB 1952 says so. Section 3 says that if there is a judicial determination that SORNA is invalid as applied those originally sentenced to 10 years will not have to finish their sentences.

          However, it also says in a different section that they want people to stay on. So it is a work in progress.

        • #32272 Reply

          Paul

          Chuck please state page and line number you are saying this new bills says people with 10yrs do not have to finish their sentence with a judicial determination thanks

        • #32326 Reply

          chuck

          @ Paul
          it is Section 3 page 9 line 30 through page 10 line 8. Make sure you read the printer no with the asterisk. It is the latest version.

      • #32065 Reply

        Brian

        Good idea chuck for everyone.

    • #32057 Reply

      Chuck

      Mike,
      The one thing 100% sure about us, they can’t increase our time past 10 years. So at the very worse, the first year we will not have to report is 2021 if it goes down that way. I believe they are not worried about you and I, The 10 year people, but want to stop the 25 year and life timers from getting off.
      Important to remember, Muniz says our time is only 10 years, but under Muniz we have to finish our 10 years.Yet, due to Megans Law 3 being declared illegal in Commonwealth v Neiman, there is no registry to stick us onto. HB 1952 as currently written, will allows us to leave without finishing our 10 years.
      That are a lot of moving parts that could change today’s picture.

      Remember, 1952 can change 1,000 times until it is passed.

      • #32089 Reply

        chuck

        Mark,
        I have an update. HB 1952 has been changed to include us, however, we receive credit for the time we have in and they have to honor our original 10-year sentence. So 2020 will be the last year we are required to register under HB1952 updated version. This is the first time I have seen the updated version.

        • #32157 Reply

          Paul

          Sorry Chuck you guys are on longer but thats just common sense

        • #32171 Reply

          Chuck

          @ Paul
          It’s all good. All I have to do is my original sentence. I am almost done!!!

        • #32229 Reply

          chuck

          @ Paul….
          Not longer, just have to complete original sentence. However, there will definitely be a fight over 1952. Too bad I will be done by the time we win it, LOL.

        • #32249 Reply

          Paul

          Technically right now anyone pre SORNA can file to get off reg Who knows whats going to happen with bill yet One thing I’m not sure on is if a person can squeeze by in time if they will be able to Al Pachino your ass down the road

        • #32321 Reply

          Paul

          Just when I thought I was out, they suck me back in.

  • #32060 Reply

    Chuck

    The Docket number for Muniz st the Pa Supreme Court level is 47 MAP 2016. You can use this docket number to see if they have finished the case yet. As of right now, they haven’t entered a final order yet.

    The follow is the link to the docket sheet.

    https://ujsportal.pacourts.us/DocketSheets/AppellateCourtReport.ashx?docketNumber=47+MAP+2016

    Simply periodically check this link for an update. It would have a date after October 2017.

  • #32066 Reply

    Steve

    I have read through these posts and it is clear that there is a lot of confusion out there. I am an RSO in Pennsylvania and I have been following this case closely. I have heartfelt thanks for the PA Supreme Court justices who had the courage to rule in accordance with the State and Federal Constitution in this case. It takes a good deal of wisdom and bravery, don’t forget these are elected officials. And they are mostly Democrats, which exposes them to the demagoguery of the Right who will claim they are soft on crime (I am not making a partisan statement; the Left is equally if not more responsible for these insane laws, but in this case the decision in our favor comes from the Left and I am happy to congratulate these Justices for it). I also believe that SCOTUS made the correct decision by denying to hear the case from the evil and deranged District Attorney of Cumberland County, and overall there have now been a string of court decisions in our favor that auger well for the future. The State Legislature is trying to save their precious registry with yet another unconstitutional law and as usual, this is bipartisan because politicians on both sides can pander and virtue signal to an ignorant public. RSOs are one of the few groups left in society that can be scapegoated and persecuted with impunity, and so it will continue until cultural attitudes change. I believe this is happening, and I am as hopeful for the future as I have been in a long time. In my own case, I am working with my attorney to see what can be done, but I have a sense that my pre-2012 conviction will qualify me for a reduction from 15 years to 10, if not outright removal from the registry. I am also thankful to NARSOL for everything they do, and I am happy to contribute what I can to an organization that is working for us, and keeping us informed on important developments both good and bad. I hope NARSOL can organize a conference call soon to cover the situation in PA with some intelligent and well-informed speakers. It is a great concern to me that so many people appear to be reading their own interpretations into this decision, or operating on hearsay, which may or may not be correct. It is vitally important that we all have a correct understanding of this decision and that we continue to work together to fight these horrible laws.

  • #32140 Reply

    chuck

    Guys,
    I just found the commonwealth’s argument when HB 1952 is challenged. I found it from Commonwealth v DERHAMMER (2016).
    The premise of the argument is as follows:

    “Simply put, an unconstitutional statute cannot repeal a former law and the prior statute remains in force. ”

    So because Megan’s Law 3 was deemed unconstitutional, Megan’s Law 2 is still in force after it is reenacted. We have to hope that the Pa Supreme Court can get its order finalized before 1952 passes, so we can argue the gap allows Muniz to stand.

  • #32196 Reply

    henry

    Attention Terry Brunsen and chuck : On 11 22 17 The Pa supreme court in com. v Derhammer no. 121 map 2016 states all former ml expired 12 20 12 read wecht concurring opinion the court declared there does not exist any former ml

    • #32233 Reply

      chuck

      Henry,
      That is correct. That is why they are trying to pass HB 1952. It will revive Megan’s Law 2. They are trying to say Megan’s Law 2 is a civil penalty, so therefore it can be applied retroactively. I still think they are going to have trouble to get over the internet shaming. The only thing they can do is make the registry for law enforcement only.

      • #32247 Reply

        Paul

        Chuck I agree with you on this My case is 2003 when I plead guilty they only had SVPs on web I remember otherwise I would have never took a plea If someones case is pre 2004 I believe they will eventually get relief on this anyone past that date won’t. After 2004 they had internet for all so anyone after that date won’t have grounds other then the laws that were in place at that time. I think the new bill is addressing this all but the pre 2004 people may be 2005 when it went into effect not sure.

  • #32198 Reply

    Kurt Martin

    I did not expect the U.S. Supreme Court to take this case, as the decision below not only involved an interpretation of the U.S. Constitution, but also the Constitution of Pennsylvania. So even if the highest court of the USA found that the highest court of PA had erred on how the “ex post facto” doctrine applies under federal law, SCOTUS cannot and would not disturb PA’s own Supreme Court in its ruling that their own state constitution made this law unenforceable as to people who were convicted before the law took effect.

  • #32230 Reply

    Tom

    I see that the PASC has posted the Denial of the Writ of Certiorari and sent the record back to Cumberland County Court of Common Pleas. The case is marked closed. Does that mean we will be removed from the registry? I think not

  • #32231 Reply

    chuck

    The Pa Supreme Court remanded the Muniz record back to the original court today. We are making progress!!!!

  • #32232 Reply

    Ken

    Help me

    I’m a rso convicted of statutory sexual assualt f2 and corruption the morals of w minor f3 on September 27 2011 and was initially I didn’t have to register at all the with the implementation of the sorna aka adam Walsh act , I had register as now as lifetime register , does this law change effect me anyway

    • #32246 Reply

      Paul

      Ken I believe it does because you are pre SORNA unless you were convicted then reoffended you should be good and the dates are before SORNA went into effect

    • #32248 Reply

      chuck

      Ken,
      The answer to your question is not set yet. Under this court ruling, it should make it so that Pa has to honor the original terms of your sentence. However, Pa is trying to pass HB 1952 to negate the effects of this court ruling. So we do not know for sure as of right now. Until HB1952 becomes law and is digested by the lawyers, there are no sure answers.

      • #32264 Reply

        Paul

        Chuck chill out bro you’re out of control The new bill has nothing in it to keep this guy on He is off reg right now if he filed a writ all pre SORNA people are due relief NOW The new bill states anyone who’s time has expired is off reg read it.

      • #32303 Reply

        Adam

        How would HB1952 affect Ken’s situation in any way? HB1952 certainly negates much of MUNIZ, in that it stops all pre-SORNA offenders from being removed, but it does not stop pre-SORNA offenders from being returned to their original sentences. I am in a similar situation and find myself hoping it passes, as I see it as the fastest way for me to be removed. Anyone whose registration requirement has been met will still be removed under 1952. Certainly Ken’s registration requirement has been met if he never had one.

        • #32317 Reply

          Paul

          Adam the fastest way is a writ to force PSP to remove you now per Muniz don’t wait.

        • #32316 Reply

          Paul

          Ok so how is he going back on reg if pre SORNA he did not have to register? The new has nothing on him.

  • #32304 Reply

    Brian

    Things are getting a little out of hand I see, just been reading all the posts all day but not really commenting, things are starting to get twisted and confusing, I think people need to sit back and chill a little bit, this isn’t going to happen over night evidently and this stupid  bill keeps changing direction like a tornado. No one knows exactly what’s going to happen at this point, we don’t know that the bill will become a law, we will all find out exactly what the truth is in the end of this bs, lawyers don’t even know what the deal is with HB 1952 because they didn’t even acknowledge it when I questioned a couple of them about HB 1952. Seams like a ton of chaos now but it’s all good though.

  • #32309 Reply

    Brian

    @Check
    Where can I view that the case was sent back to Cumberland county, I didn’t even know it was already back in Pennsylvania wow.

  • #32315 Reply

    Paul

    Thanks Atony this doc is good I bought it for $5 The nazi comparison is spot on we all need to study this so we can be prepared to testify to the facts SOs are the start to the government controlling the citizens. Please watch everyone.

  • #32322 Reply

    Adam

    “Fastest” might not have been the right word because I realize that if I hired a lawyer to file that for me that it would be faster, but also expensive. I meant that it would be the fastest way for me to get off without significant cost. Can you or anyone else enlighten me a bit on how I would go about filing pro se?

    • #32346 Reply

      chuck

      @ Adam,
      If you want to file a writ of mandamus here is the link to a pdf form from the Pa Supreme Court that might help you. However, I would advise being patient. If HB 1952 passes, which I believe it will, it is going to alter things a bit. Since HB1952 has not been passed yet, no one knows what the final law will look like for 100% certainty.
      However, here is the link:

      http://www.pacourts.us/assets/files/setting-3218/file-2861.pdf?cb=984871

    • #32347 Reply

      Paul

      Thats the biggest anomaly right now there is a template from NARSOL for a person pre SORNA with one 10yr reg offense to help you file but we need one for people with two or more 10yr offenses also in addition we need a conference call and guidance ASAP on this don’t get it everyone knew this was coming its my belief people are staying1 out ignorer to maximize the SOs they can return to the nazi fold. email your local NARSOL rep they should be able to provide the template

    • #32348 Reply

      Paul

      email and ask for template theresa.mr@comcast.net

  • #32341 Reply

    Brian

    @Chuck
    Thanks, I saw the pasc after I posted then was thinking I wanted to see remand back to Cumberland country. So the case is closed now, what happens now? Sense they closed the case it goes to the AG. and then the psp to remove names?

    • #32349 Reply

      chuck

      We are waiting for the Attorney General to “interpret” the ruling for PSP. It is kind of in limbo right now because PSP does not want to start removing people just to be told a month later “oh you have to put them back on.” So I am sure the Attorney General and the General Assembly will have a conversation about the expected passage HB1952 timeline. However, I still believe between Valentine’s day and the beginning of March we should officially hear something from PSP. Once again, this is just my opinion. I have no evidence to back this up. Obviously, if the General Assembly gets a hair up their butt and decides to pass HB1952 tomorrow, that is going to change things.

  • #32358 Reply

    Brian

    @Chuck
    Yours and Terry’s predictions on the Muniz case have been pretty dang accurate, I’m going to say in the 95% range I have to say , so I’m going to go with that and if your wrong it’s all good my friend.

  • #32402 Reply

    Chuck

    Don’t worry guys it’s all downhill from here. This is just pure speculation but I think the reason why they were in such a hurry to pass HB 1952 was becuase they felt SCOTUS was going to reverse the Pa Supreme Court and they didn’t want a gap in between.
    Now, that SCOTUS denied cert, I believe that took some of the wind out of their sails. They are going to have to regroup and think this through. That gives PSP time to get started on removing people.
    I could be wrong, it just seems weird they were all hot to trot to get 1952 passed and now that SCOTUS denied Cert, they don’t even have a vote scheduled. Weird.

    • #32409 Reply

      Paul

      One is 100% certain that everyone pre SORNA can file a writ to get off reg now. Anything else is hope and speculation.

  • #32403 Reply

    Confucius

    Please, we need official and legal clarification here! Stop with all the “I think” or “It may be” “It should be” etc. comments! Just please everyone doing it stop! You are adding to the confusion many have while answering no questions accurately.

    Narsol, for the love of what you advocate for, get someone that has accurate to the moment factual verifiable information that someone can be held accountable for if they cause someone harm for it being false! Then provide a way for people to get access to free legal aid on this current cause as needed, to get their rights exercised properly as may be needed! (If needed)

    These politician are out of control! (many say and can see that, but no one marches). I have by myself at my local courthouse like a “dumbell weight”, with no support in years past (was arrested, then released after extensive interrogation). Was I afraid, heck yeah! But did it anyways. Stood for what I believed in for me and others. I have had enough! Organize! Stop producing for the system that supports these laws! (I know, scary! We need money to pay for things, I get it!)

    I am tired. I am exhausted! I am mentally and physically drained! So many years of these games with people’s lives. Please, I beg of you all!

    • #32410 Reply

      Paul

      That is why I responded to Chuck and Cary the way I did I saw they were stating false info All we can go by is PSPs past performance and its not good. We should not wait to see what they do we need real guidance on this and have got none They will say trust the system it will work out. All it would take is an experienced lawyer to comment on this not advise anyone My input is I have seen many people get relief by way of a writ per Muniz the case was denied cert now remit back to court So their is no ML for pre SORNA people why give the legislature and PSP a chance to manipulate things any further. If you just wait to see what happens it really doesn’t matter what anyone says on hear the outcome will be the same . The only other thing we can do other than wait is file a writ.

      • #32434 Reply

        Chuck

        @ Paul
        It is not false if you give your opinion and say it is your opinion. Everything I have stated as fact I have backed up with citations.

        It ok to speculate Paul as long as you remember it is just speculation.

        I do believe 1953 will pass. They are just taking s break. Perhaps they are thinking about adjusting it once again. We will find out.

      • #32458 Reply

        Chuck

        @ Paul
        You have to remember if they pass 1952 they are going to make sure it civil which means they can apply it retroactively.

    • #32418 Reply

      RobinAdmin

      Confucius, we are working on this task. This is NOT a clear cut issue with precise answers. The reality is that there is a whole lot of truth in a lot of what’s been suggested because there are a host of options. The law is an ass, to quote Mark Twain. So you can expect it to act like one whenever there’s confusion over what it means or where to go to find the relief you’re looking for. NARSOL is NOT a collection of attorneys. We work with attorneys and, like most attorneys, they have priorities that require us to be patient as we seek to get the answers you are hoping for. We’re volunteers and so are they. Right now, I’d just ask you to be patient for a few more days until we have developed something of a plan about how to proceed.

    • #32432 Reply

      Chuck

      We will have what we need soon enough. Just as soon as they do what they got to do. In the mean time , we just have to be patient. No matter what happens, it will happen as the saying goes.

  • #32407 Reply

    Brian

    @Chuck
    Hey , maybe their going to shove it right down our throats like they did with SORNA, they said it flew right under the radar without any resistance what soever. Put it right under pasc nose while they were sleeping I guess.

    • #32433 Reply

      Chuck

      @ Brian
      To be fair, they did give PSP 12 months to notify everyone with SORNA. However, I think they are just taking a nap right now. They will pass 1953 becuase its fun beating up on a group you can get away with it.

  • #32431 Reply

    Snoopy

    @ Robin and all at NARSOL

    I for one am incredibly thankful and feel very blessed to have NARSOL as a resource. If I actually had any money I would love to donate to NARSOL to support all of you as a thank-you. If you were in Pennsylvania and nearby I would bake you my award winning chocolate, peanut butter chip cookies… and while there’s a chance you’re in PA, I’m going to guess probably not, so all I can offer is my heartfelt thanks, and that me and my family pray for all of you that have helped us get as far as we have with our wins with the registry. I was convicted in 2010, 10 years with 1 x reporting. When SORNA came out I was changed to 25 years, 2 x reporting. I know that there are all sorts of legal thoughts out there as to what might and should happen to me – being taken off because I am pre Sorna and Megan’s Law 1, 2, 3 were expired… that I should go back to 10 years 1 x reporting, but might have to go before a judge with my own money for a lawyer and court costs when my time expires instead of just timing off… I don’t know what will happen. At least going back to 10 years, 1 x reporting is a win of sorts (because if it is judicial determination I am certain that others who might have money might fight and appeal because that’s punitive, at least from my perspective)… and knowing that there are people fighting and educating on our behalf is comforting in and of itself.

    As much as we can all be impatient, ungrateful jerks, I simply wanted to say Thank-you again to you and everyone else at NARSOL.

    • #32449 Reply

      RobinAdmin

      Thank you, Snoopy. We appreciate your interest in and support for our advocacy. And you’re welcome to send your award-winning cookies to the conference in June.

    • #32457 Reply

      Chuck

      @Snoopy

      I saw your comment on cumberlink. I love it. Also, I think people are just scared becuase they feel as though their ability to be removed is going to be taken away by 1952. It might. However, all pre- Sorna have at least 5 years in. Which means all 10 year people are at least half way done. I can remember when I first registered Thinking 10 years was a long time. This July will be 8 years since I had that thought. I have been off parole for 6 years, yet it feels like yesterday I got off.
      I think the courts are finally getting tired of the registry treating us like we don’t count. In the last few years SCOTUS has either denied cert or upheld restrictions on sex offender registries in 4 different cases. 2 of them involved North Carolina.
      The tide is changing not only for sex offenders but also for felons in general.
      People forget the Law is a shield and a sword. It protects the victims and fight for the rights for all.

      • #32481 Reply

        Paul

        Babes in the woods Chuck your optimism is a good thing they haven’t gleaned from your soul yet. I have learned over the last 15yrs that no one will fix problems for you but yourself including an attorney you need to hold everyone and everything accountable even at the last second because they thrive off breaking peoples hopes down most of the time its at the last second makes them feel even more powerful.

  • #32419 Reply

    Brian

    Here is a law office who has a message, I’m not sure if their just drumming up business or this is actually what’s going to happen, sounds like their reading this from HB 1952, this is the office who posted this on their website,to good to be true?

    https://www.shafferengle.com/blog/2018/01/sorna–you-can-get-off-the-list.shtml

    • #32454 Reply

      Chuck

      @Brian
      I would agreed with what the attorney said. However, HB 1952 could change all that. Or, it might not change a thing. I just know that the Pa General wouldn’t go to the trouble of passing HB1952 if they didn’t believe it would impact PRE-SORNA people. This does not mean the courts will agree with 1952.

      All I am saying it waiting 30-60 to see how things shake out isn’t going to effect anyone. If 1952 does affect Pre-Sorna people, then it’s a Ex post facto law and it’s going to effect you whether your on the registry or have been removed when 1952 goes into effect.

      The Attorney General is not going to order the PSP to remove names just to tell them 2 months later they have to put those people back on.
      I truly believe they thought SCOTUS was going to st least hear oral argument. I bet the Pa General Assembly is shocked they got back a denial so quickly.
      I want off the registry just like each and every one of us here. However, I refuse to allow getting off the registry to consume my life. Life sucks like hell on the registry but I have figured out a way to at least to make it somewhat bearable.
      My brothers, please enjoy the life you have. Please do not fall for the myth that once you are off the registry that will solve all of your problems. You will still have a criminal charge. In my case, I will still be a felon.
      Terry and I have been saying from the get go that the stay was for the Federal question and not the state question.
      I am personally waiting until the legal landscape is s little more clear before I make a decision as how to proceed. I believe if I just sit tight, things will work out. Time will tell.

  • #32453 Reply

    Cary

    Credited to Brian’s shared attorney web site. These are not my words below. It was a copy and paste. From the website that Brian posted. Yes I do think that frontal page on the website seemed a bit off. To me it say hurry up come to me before the loop hole closesto get off the registery. Only come to me. You cannot do this alone B.S. hire me if you want to get off the registery. Blah blah blah. There are other things to click on and read. Alot makes since. But, the frontal page I laugh cause its trying too hard and it becomes obvious. But anyways besides that here is what i found on that website as i mentioned. This what intrest me anyways. Hope this sums up some B.S:

    In Commonwealth v. Muniz, ___ Pa. ____, ____ A.3d ___ (July 19, 2017), the Pennsylvania Supreme Court recently determined in a majority decision that the Sexual Offender Registration and Notification Act (“SORNA”) or “Megan’s Law IV” registration requirements are “punishment.” Therefore, the registration provisions violate the ex post facto (“after the fact”) clauses of both the State and Federal Constitutions. It cannot be applied retroactively. Any sentence or registration period that constitutes punishment, as the Court determined, cannot be applied to someone after they are already sentenced. So, if you were sentenced prior to December 20, 2012 OR the alleged offense occurred prior to December 20, 2012 this decision applies to you. This decision does not invalidate the current registration regime under SORNA for those convicted after December 20, 2012. Although other challenges to the SORNA registration requirements may be pending.

    Megan’s Law I was enacted in 1995 and has gone through several iterations based upon subsequent determinations of particular provisions that violated the constitution. These iterations include Megan’s Law II in 2000, Megan’s Law III in 2004 and now Megan’s Law IV or SORNA effective December 20, 2012. Megan’s Law IV established the “tier system” for registration that is “offense based.” Certain sexual or sexually-related offenses carry a 15, 25 and lifetime registration requirement.

    SORNA in Pennsylvania is applicable to anyone who is or was under incarceration, probation or parole supervision, or was otherwise subject to the registration requirements of the statute after its effective date. In this case, the offender was convicted of a Megan’s Law III crime in 2007. That crime in 2007 carried a 10 year registration requirement. After his sentencing he fled the jurisdiction in 2008. The Court determined that his absence from the jurisdiction prior to sentencing was of no moment because he would not have completed the 10 year registration period prior to the effective date of SORNA. Therefore, would have been subjected to increased registration requirements. As his “punishment” was increased after his sentence of 4 to 14 months was already imposed, SORNA or Megan’s Law IV violated the ex post facto clauses.

    How Do I Get Off the Megan’s Law Registry?

    There are at least two possible ways to get off the Megan’s Law IV or SORNA registry now that it’s retroactivity has been declared unconstitutional.

    One way and the most likely, is to wait for the Attorney General’s Office of Pennsylvania to issue a formal opinion to the Pennsylvania State Police to remove offenders. The State Police will have to then utilize their search capabilities within their own database to determine who was sentenced prior to December 20, 2012 and was still on probation, supervision, or registration for a Megan’s Law offense. There are a lot of individuals impacted and likely this process will take more than a few weeks. Likely a few months.

    Another way is to file a suit against the Pennsylvania State Police. The State Police would have to named as a party because they are responsible for updating and maintaining the database. The action, most likely a petition for injunctive or declaratory relief should be filed in the Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania when a state agency, such as PSP is a named party.

    How Do I Get Off Third Party Sites Now that Megan’s Law IV or SORNA is Unconstitutional?

    What is less clear is how this will affect third party sites from maintaining registration information on those who were formerly registered as sex offenders under Megan’s Law IV. One would anticipate that any third party site that is maintaining inappropriate data that is defamatory would be subjecting itself to a suit for compensatory and possibly punitive damages. An initial “cease and desist” letter should be sent requesting that such data posted be immediately removed

    • #32485 Reply

      Chuck

      @ Cary
      You can pretty much always do it your self when it come to legal stuff. However, it is easier sometimes to write s check then to research all the laws concerned with your case. If someone makes a good income then I would say go adhead and drop to $2,000-$3,000 an Attorney is going to need. However, if you are struggling, either wait for the Attorney General or file a writ yourself.
      Yes it sucks to be in the registry. My neighbors make sure I never forget. However, I am so much more than a sex offender. I just don’t see the fire. Why does it have to be yesterday and not in a few months? I think this is more about poor impulse control ( I want what I want now) than about being on the registry.
      10 years from now it is going to matter you spent an extra 6 months in the registry thane you had to? The likely answer is probably no.

      • #32563 Reply

        Injustice Project

        To remove yourself from 3rd party sites you would need to send them a demand for removal, if they refuse you could sue them for defamation and other stuff. but you would need to show the courts that you sent a demand for removal first, or they would most likely dismiss your case. Also you would need damages if you are attempting to retrieve a monetary settlement.

        This is not legal advice,

  • #32455 Reply

    Chuck

    I think Terry is going to win here within a few weeks. Pay the $70.00 and just file a writ like terry did. I am sure Terry would be willing to explain it to you if you have him your email address.

    Do pay thousands for someone to spend 1 hour filing out paperwork and another hour filing out briefs to get the same result you can for $70.00.
    I am in no hurry whether getting off in s few months or in July 2021 it is the same for me.

    If they amended Megan’s Law so that the public couldn’t access your profile and you could register online from your home, I wouldn’t be so against Megan’s Law. I would still think it is illegal but it wouldn’t be so bad. With these changes, you just want to know where I live. Ok, DMV knows where I live and so does my Dr, bank, credit card company etc etc.
    However, they could not do that becuase then they wouldn’t be able to shame you.

    • #32549 Reply

      terry brunson

      @ Chuck

      It is terry – I been contacted by PAG lawyer- She wants me to enter into summary arbitration. She e mailed the PSP and made a deal that if I drop the suit I could be off the restry next week under Muniz alone automatically.

      I wonder why the PAG want me to drop the suit? I need that judicial determination. I mentioned HB 1952 and she said don’t talk about things that are not in law enforcement’s hands.

      She said there is a reason that HB 1952 is stuck in the Pa Senate. It may die there was her words. All are moving to the side of the PASC decision on Muniz more than waiting on some muniz fix.

      HB 1952 may be going away soon. Muniz remand order will be issued from the PASC to the PAG soon. They have until 5 feb 2018 10 day after denial from SCOTUS. it could be before but no later than 10 days to issue remand order under Muniz to PSP. I think you were right Chuck. The Muniz case is the judicial determination. That is all that is needed.

      I was shock to hear from the PAG- I don’t have a lawyer so I guess she called me. She said that my brief was unchangeable. She did not know how to oppose it. She says that we can enter into summary arbitration which I don’t know what that is. Why can’t I just get a order from the judge. I am not sure what she is asking. If my case is so good why not go before the judge and get an order to be precedent case to help others?

      Chuck I know that you are I seem to be at odds some time, but in the end I must concede that you are right – I don’t believe that I got this call from the PAG she was so nice to me. She called my case a suit I tried to say it was mandamus I think the money part is the suit she was talking about. But one thing is sure she said she

      • #32558 Reply

        Brian

        @Terry Brunson
        I think it’s a trick, I think their trying to get you to quit early because 1952 will die by your hands and they know your not paying a lawyer and handling it yourself, therefore you ain’t spending thousands that no one has to spend, because 1952 is in your mandamus , they know you got them by the balls, if you stop now everyone will be screwed, I think you are the one taking away 1952, I just got a feeling about what their trying to do, just make sense of it like you do everything else.

      • #32580 Reply

        Injustice Project

        Mr. Brunson, I have not read your brief but most likely they do not want you to file what ever you have. The house bill they have will sure be fought the day it is put into law if it happens. But never drop a brief before its filed. Although, I am not giving you legal advice, I would file the brief then let it play out. But I would never drop or not file a brief just because someone has called you. that brief and other case law builds up a defense to ensure that the legislatures hands are tied. Think of it like a boxing fight, you wouldn’t stop swinging just because your opponent may drop, NO, you keep swinging to ensure he goes down and you win.

        If you are removed from the list before a new law takes affect and attempts to loop you back in, you would have a whole other fight and angle to argue. So I would recommend filing your brief, but again I am not giving legal advice.

  • #32476 Reply

    Penelope

    to brian, mods and everyone, thank for lawyer link. However, I feel compelled to warn anyone about that specific attorney by the name Elisabeth K.H. Pasqualini, SORNA/Megan’s Law Attorney, Harrisburg, PA. (after a Google search, yes that friend of many, Google)
    I had contacted this lady back in 2012 when I received my letter for SORNA changes and my increase to 15 years from 10. I had only one question and one only one and was hoping for a “free” consultation (customary by many lawyers unless high profile, but still at their decision) before deciding if to hire her (I had a good job at that time, until I was fired for an allegation as it is all it takes, no charges ever filed). I asked my question as follows “What is the meaning of this letter, its effects and my legal rights to exercise?” so, Attorney Pasqualini proceeded to ask me for $75 to speak to me. (yes, just like that!) I answered that I had lost my income recently that same year and my unemployment was the only thing to keep me afloat. She then said she or her office billing process I guess, took credit cards. I rudely hung up and I am not typically a rude person.

    My point, be aware that there are many money hungry “attorneys” ready to tell you things, fill your eyes, take your money regardless of outcome. It is a sick business! Law is a rotten institution or industry just like how the health and education systems have become as of late. It is sad! Be careful! Class action seems to be the most financially reasonable approach.

    to the optimist chuck, I have been waiting a long time while on this unconstitutional law…now illegally so ruled as of last summer and still waiting…dude I am tired of waiting Sir. They do not seem to take their time to hurt us, to hurt our families, to hurt people though the saying goes “To serve and protect” and the hypocritical “For Public Safety” statements to excuse abuses and circumventing the laws to their will.

    OK, I am done. Go ahead and disagree since we are not an united bunch statewide and I know there will be that one to disagree and say how awesome and righteous all “the Laws, judges, attorneys, LEOs or the government systems are”! Any takers on my comment?

    • #32483 Reply

      Chuck

      Penelope
      You wouldn’t ask your plumber to work for free so why would you ask your attorney to work for free?
      The model of a “free” consultation just to jake yo their hourly rate is not used that much anymore. I spoke to one attorney where in order to make an appointment you have to pay a ‘scheduling fee’ This was becuase too many people were paying the reduced cousultation fee and then not restining the firm.
      Besides, you get what you pay for. A lawyer is more likely to take you seriously if they are getting paid.

  • #32493 Reply

    Adam

    I contacted the Megan’s Law office in Harrisburg and was told that they have already begun the process of adjusting/removing people. I asked if they have an estimate on how long that process will take to complete and she sighed and said “we really don’t. There are thousands and thousands.”

    • #32505 Reply

      Chuck

      Thank you Adam for confirming what I said. If we look at the past for an example, in 2012 , it took them 5 months to notify everyone about SORNA being appilied retroactively.
      I told you guys. Be patient. It will happen. Why spend time and money in something they are going to do for you without any effort or money on your part. Let PSP do the heavy lifting.
      We just have to be patient. It will be exiciting to see what the General Assemvly does with 1952. It was billed as a “Muniz Fix”. Let’s see if they try to claim Pre-Sorna has to stay on or if they will concede the point and just focus on people from this point on
      I truly believe they thought SCOTUS was going to vacate and reverse. I hope they learned their lesson and remove the public registry. Every one deserves the chance to receive forgiveness.

    • #32507 Reply

      Paul

      Id can’t wait to see one come down maybe we could ask have they taken one person off yet

  • #32506 Reply

    Injustice Project

    What everyone needs to understand is that the new house bill is not law and will be dealt with IF it became law. But, as of right now there is no sex offender laws that apply to people convicted before Dec 20 2012. I will not give legal advice but if a law actually existed right now then the PSP and Prosecutors would not be dropping charges and the courts would not be letting people off left and right by using the Muniz case. What I’m saying is that for people convicted before SORNA don’t sit back and wait on the PSP to “do their jobs”. but grab the bull by the horns and do it for them.

    • #32515 Reply

      Paul

      Wow finally got someone to back me up The thing I see is people trying to keep this hush hush and we will know who they are when this all plays out. So there is still time for these people to speak up and help those due relief now.

    • #32525 Reply

      Chuck

      If I was in prison I can see the importance in not delaying. However filing a writ gives the apparent effort that we are impatient, selfish ,and rude.
      What about those who do not have the time not the money to hire an attorney to file and answer a writ with the many briefings?
      We learned in Pre School to be kind and selfless. I will be removed just like everyone else, yet I can appreciate how stressful PSP has it right now. They are under pressure from their bosses to comply with the court order and sex offenders are calling daily. Yet, they are only human and can only work so fast.
      Like they say, “Patience is a virtue” In 12 months you are going to say “I don’t know why I was in such a rush for?”

  • #32508 Reply

    Chuck

    Found this article through a link on this website.
    It says now that Muniz is final, the General Assembly cannot overturn the decision by making a new law.
    There is the concrete proof Paul was looking for. 1952 cannot take away what Muniz gives us. That is why they were in a hurry to pass 1952. If they would of passed it before Muniz was finalized, then they could have changed things.

    So what do they do now. If they make a new law, those sentenced after 12/29/2012 but before 1952 becomes effective won’t be able to be held under 1952. Does that mean they are going to have 2 registries? One for SORNA people and one for 1952 people?

    So THERE Paul, you have the proof you need.

    Patience my brothers, always wins.

    https://sosen.org/blog/2018/01/19/an-explanation-of-some-legal-doctrines-and-other-legal-information.html

    • #32514 Reply

      Paul

      What are you saying lol Dude your off on a serious tangent right now.

      • #32521 Reply

        Chuck

        @ Paul
        I am saying do to the vested interest doctrine the Pa General Assembly cannot overturn the Muniz Decision by writing s new law. So, when we look at the Muniz Decision, we see that anyone sentenced prior to 12/20/2012 cannot have their sentences adjusted retroactively. So this means that if you have finished your original sentence, you will be removed.
        Next, we look st Commonwealth v. Neiman where we see Megans Law 3, the version in effect right before SORNA, was found to by unconditional due to the Pa General Assemvly violating the single subject rule found in Article 1 Section 1 of the Pa Constitution.

        So in effect there is no registry in effect for Pre SORNA people. This is why all Pre Sorna people will be removed.

        Very simple. Everything is written in plain English for everyone to understand. Just have to read the decisions in The above mentioned cases.

        The only question we had left to deal with was how, if st all, HB1952 was going to affect Pre Sorna people. The Vested Interest Doctrine shows has that HB 1952 will have no affect on Pre Sorna people.
        Also, PSP does not like the decisions mentioned but they will follow them.
        Any other questions??

        • #32527 Reply

          Paul

          Chuck we have know this since July of 2017 The issue is getting of the reg and people filling a writ to get off and not standing in line like a fool because we don’t want to look rude to them we are on a SO website how do you think that looks to them and everyone else.

        • #32617 Reply

          Chuck

          Yes, I agree we have known this since July. We are just waiting for everything to be finalized. I am excited to see what the Pa Senate has to say about HB1952 now that the vested interest doctrine appilies.
          One thing everything has to remember that getting off the registry does not remove the charge from your history. So Employer will still find out when they do a background check. However, I am exicitied to be removed from the registry to not have to explain myself to every person I have know for 5 minutes. It’s really difficult to date when everyone freaks out becuase “you are on Megan’s Law”.
          I have had several people tell me they love chilling with me but would of never guessed that because I am on the registry. I am human just like everyone else.
          I understand you are afraid Paul of what could happen if you are not removed right this second. The Gays and Blacks had to go through a lot to get the respect they have today. However, besides Roy Moore, every Judge either dropped their objections to marrying gays or stop marrying everyone once the SCOTUS said that it was legal for gays to marry.
          My point is this. It is never fun being mistreated just becuase you are different. Yet, if we let that fact alone make our lives miserable l, then they have won. We cannot let the fact we are on the registry effect our outlook on life.
          Also, once of the biggest fallacies in logic is citcuilar reasoning. For example, just becuase the PSP wrote a brief against our position that proved they will refuse to remove people. The people who will be doing the actual removing of names couldn’t care less if we are or are not removed. It’s a job to them. They get paid the same whether we are removed or not.
          We cannot let fear of past events dictate our actions. Granted, the worse that could happen to me is I have to sit for another 2 years which I was planning to do anyway.
          I just don’t want people to think being removed from the registry is this magic pill that will cure all their problems that they give. If someone wants to file a writ, I think that is wonderful. I am merely pointing out that why go though all that effort for something they will do for you. A few years from now, it won’t mstter you got off a few months early. To me, 8 weeks early isn’t worth the drama. Then again, I do not have an employer who hates me. I am single, but I am not in a hurry to get married again.
          There is a reason they say, “Goods things come to those who wait”.

    • #32518 Reply

      Paul

      Chuck no offense but its easy for you to say you will be put on new bill most likely if it does pass. We have done our time if people got some help pro se writ its not that big of a deal to file with trial court and most everyones writ will be the same language just different dates and stuff. $70 to get what is owed is no big deal

      • #32522 Reply

        Chuck

        It’s not the $70.00 that is at issue. It is the appearance that we cannot wait our turn to be removed. We look selfish and rude.

        • #32526 Reply

          Paul

          Holy crap are you serious right now bro ? Wait our turn our turn came and gone take your cuck prob with PSP somewhere else bro My income will in crease 10fold once I’m off this thing I’m not cucking for anyone.

        • #32528 Reply

          Paul

          Chuck you should do some research on Stockholm syndrome before anything else ASAP

        • #32568 Reply

          Injustice Project

          Chuck, I’m sure that the gays, blacks and others who have fought for their freedom also looked selfish and rude? I don’t think so, and they also didn’t sit around waiting for the courts and the police to fight for them. NO they fought the cases themselves and never gave up, nor gave anyone a chance to breathe. They have won their cases in the courts because they never quit and waited.

        • #32594 Reply

          Chuck

          There is a difference between wanting your rights to be respected and giving the the Attorney General enough time to read and interpret the court’s ruling.
          Plus gay marriage and blacks were about equal protection not about being removed from a criminal penalty

        • #32643 Reply

          Paul

          Hey Chuck the ruling was in July I don’t think you even think about what you say half the time They had their time if they do not produce a firm time line by Tuesday then they are trying to delay things and commonsense says people should file a writ if they are able and for the people who can’t I guess they are not important enough to help It is very possible things will go the way you say but for you to tell people to trust them is just plain wrong All you have to do is look at their past performance and the words that came out of their mouths at the house judiciary to have the logic to prepare oneself to file a writ because the Muniz decision has made all pre SORNA people not registrable there is no registration for them so they can have the trial court rule that PSP must take them off and that is a hell of a lot better position to be in then trusting them based off a cuckery respect for your oppressors would you not agree?

        • #32648 Reply

          Paul

          Chuck the Muniz ruling is about civil rights for a group of people you’re wrong again. Right to reputation is a civil right inalienable The registry violates lots of our civil rights I am not being mean when I say this you need therapy because you are actually defending your abusers it obvious Saying you wouldn’t mind reg if it wasn’t public What if you miss a reg date and they give you 20yrs for it?

  • #32529 Reply

    Snoopy

    @ Robin

    I will happily send cookies to the June conference hotel Care of Robin NARSOL…. just make sure a picture gets posted of you and Fred with the tin 🙂

  • #32537 Reply

    Cary

    Finally, Brian, has been saying what i have been trying to tell people. Some of you say oh its gonna take 18 months from the july to get this far to start removing people. Im like yeah, ok lmfao. No it does not take long at all. I also been trying to tell people here that psp is not going to drag feet around. They might pout about it. But they have no choice to take people off the registry. As for the 1952 goes i understood it clearly. I been trying to tell people about it. One thing i did not know is that the 1952 has me suprised to not being the new law yet. Or it may not even be the new law. One thing is certain some of us like myself will be taking off the registery automatically quick. I do know that some of you may have to wait a little longer. Some of you may stay on 1952 for a bit if it passes. But one certain thing im overdue on my 10 years by 3 and 7 months. I should have been off the registery in 2014 of July. That would been my 10 year due date. Here it is in 2018 of end of January. Yeah, we are at the beginning of starting to take people off the registry now. As for me i am going to wait to be taking off the registery automatically.

    • #32545 Reply

      Paul

      Don’t take our word for it take PSPs word for it Let us know when you see the first person taken down.. LMAO

  • #32546 Reply

    Brian

    @Snoopy
    Hey can you post this on the Cumberlink page so these aholes can read and weep.

    https://sosen.org/blog/2018/01/19/an-explanation-of-some-legal-doctrines-and-other-legal-information.html

  • #32551 Reply

    Tom

    I have followed this case since last year. The attorneys who handled this case did their job very well. I have an attorney. He filed a writ on my behalf over 2 years ago and promised he had been successful getting SO’s off the registry. When i got little feedback from about my case i got info and learned how to check it on my own. I eventually realized that my case was going nowhere and he had never had a case where any Writs were granted. All of the cases including mine were waiting on the Muniz appeal. I wasted my money and received false promises. The people handling the Muniz case did the heavy lifting. There were many friend of the court briefs filed as well. These lawyers did a good job. They got the case heard and got us a good result. I will get off the registry because of this——not because i got an attorney who charged me money to file a worthless go nowhere writ that has languished in the courts for 2 years. My point is this: i agree with Chuck. Pre Sorna cases will get off after being on for their original 10 years. Don’t waste your time, money, or emotional energy on an attorney. And if you get offthe list, don’t forget the ones still on. Invest your time and money with organizations committed to changing these “Scarlet letter” laws. Dr Larry Nasser was not on the registry. Harvey Weinstein was not on the registry. We need to protect our loved ones by teaching them to report abuse when it happens so the perpetrator can be caught and not abuse others and be rehabilitated. Dr Nasser was a monster but if he had been reported by his first victim, he would not have created 155 plus more victims. And possibly he may have been rehabilitated. Sex abuse needs to be confronted, stopped and treated. Lists of former perpetrators doesn’t stop it. And it may create more. So if you are lucky enough to get off the list, i would say you have a duty to help those still on.

    • #32557 Reply

      Paul

      Tom here is some help, now that Muniz has been remit back to pa court All pre SORNA people are due relief. Until we see PSP Give a public time line on what they are doing in the next two business days I would be filing a writ the Judiciary is meeting on tue. There is no reason not to, up until PSP tells us what will happen. They have until tue to say something, otherwise its a delay tactic, and your crazy to wait. As far as your case goes they used the fake stay to keep your writ from going through. If we do not hear a firm timeline from PSP by tue then they are pulling a banana in the tailpipe trick.

      • #32593 Reply

        Chuck

        PSP is just like anyone else involved in legal action. They can’t say anything until the lawyers clear it. That is their job. PSP’s lawyer is the Attorney General. I am sure the Attorney General has been reviewing the ruling all this week I expect the Attorney General wants to make sure they get it right the first time. After all, in a industry that thinks 6 months is lightening fast, what can we expect in a week??

        • #32620 Reply

          Paul

          Chuck please stop talking about things you do not know about PSP testified at the House Judiciary about Muniz They have had many months since then to make a plan If we do not hear an official Plan by tue They are delaying things If they pass this bill by on tue it will get voted on fast and be law fast Even if they table it if PSP doesn’t give a firm time line we have a problem. Please don’t comment on stuff your not familiar on.

        • #33090 Reply

          chuck

          @ Paul
          I am FAMILIAR with what I am talking about. I have been following this case since Jose Muniz was first convicted. I take great pains to research.

  • #32554 Reply

    Brian

    @Penelope
    Unfortunately lawyers don’t do free anything anymore, I contacted some lawyers and they don’t even answer the simplest of questions. Chucks got a good piont, I mean a plumber won’t even walk through your front door without charging 200 bucks without even touching your water faucet, a few years back we could get free consolations but not no more.

    • #32582 Reply

      Chuck

      Just to add a point. In about another 5-6 years I will be a CPA. My total education bill will be about $80,000 with about $12,000 in certification.
      What do you think I would do if someone called me up and said “I just have a quick question that can be only answered by someone with your knowledge, that you paid $92,000.00 plus interest for and I want it answered for free?
      I would politely tell them feel free to call turbo tax and see if they are will to answer their question.
      It’s not that I am being greedy it’s just this is how I make my living. If I always gave away my knowledge, I wouldn’t be able to eat.
      Obtaining skill takes time and money. Not to mention I have to sscsfice a birthday here and there to study. All that deserves compensation.

      Same with lawyers.They need to eat as well. Everyone expects free advice but they would not walk into a store and expect free food.

      Trust me, I am low income and know how much it sucks you cannot afford the advice you need.

  • #32561 Reply

    Injustice Project

    I am seeing people talking about filing and how it will cost them money to do so. but that is not true if you meet certain financial obligations. ie, if you are on welfare, unemployment or not employed at all, also if you make below the poverty amount allowed. I have put a link below for you to click on to fill this out and submit with any court filings you may wish to proceed with. This is called an IFP by the courts.

    I am NOT giving legal advice but this may help some of you.

    Rule 240. In Forma Pauperis

    https://www.pacode.com/secure/data/231/chapter200/s240.html

    • #32565 Reply

      Chuck

      You are correct you can get the fee waived, however the judges are not inclined to help you if you can’t find a small fee to get done what you want done. Let’s face it $70.00 for your freedom is cheap.

      • #32567 Reply

        Injustice Project

        Chuck, that is completely untrue, getting a fee waives will not affect the judges decision. Sorry friend but you are completely wrong on this issue. First of all the judge who signs the order is not the one who will most likely hear the case, second of all, other then it being signed, the judge could care less. I have filed numerous IFPs and it had NO change in the outcome of the cases being argued.

        • #32583 Reply

          Chuck

          You misunderstood me. Look st it this way. Obtaining relief will increase your income by tens of thousands of dollars. Yet, that isn’t worth giving up $20.00 of fun per month for 3 1/2 months.

          I agree 100% with you that it won’t affect the judges judgement. However, it will affect their discretion. In other words, if you are asking for the law provided for you, of course they will give it to you. Yet, if they don’t have to, they won’t.

        • #32630 Reply

          Paul

          There is no sense arguing with chuck First he tells people they should be ashamed for suggesting PSP doesn’t do their job Now he’s saying the PA judges are crooked if you don’t have money to file.

      • #32569 Reply

        Injustice Project

        Chuck $70 may be cheap for you, but have you ever looked at the cost to appeal a case through the system, Because I have appealed cases through the system and its not $70. What are you gong to do if you lose your case in the first court, are you going to sit by and wait? maybe you should think ahead before you get to lax, and realize that you still have an uphill battle ahead of you. Nothing is over yet.

        The last case I filed cost $63 just in copies of the brief for the Justices on the Superior Court, not to include the mailings to everyone. You will need that $70 that you say is nothing.

        If anyAttorney has ever told you to sit back and do nothing, he is not the Attorney you want.

  • #32578 Reply

    Cary

    Thank you injustices project for the Forma Pauperis rule 240. It will help with other who is need of. As for myself i will be automatically be taking off the registery.

    • #32632 Reply

      Paul

      Cary how do you know that? Did they pass the bill? Did PSP send you a letter stating they are taking you off the reg per Muniz? Will they take you off before the bill passes? Will they pass a bill? Lets hope everything goes the way you say. We will know tue if PSP is going to Man up and give the public a firm timeline on how they are going to proceed. If they don’t then the fix is on and you better file a writ. Nothing else to say on it. It’s common sense.

  • #32585 Reply

    Chuck

    $70.00 is cheap compared to what you get in return. If you were paying $70.00 for a pair of jeans, I would say that is expensive.

  • #32611 Reply

    Snoopy

    Tuesday, January 30, 2018
    11:30 AM
    JUDICIARY
    Add to Calendar Add to Calendar Outlook (iCal) or Google Calendar
    (to consider Senate Bills No. 357, 480, 897, 922 and 1011; and House Bill No. 1952)

    Looks like we might know something about the Senate’s interest in HB 1952’s future on Tuesday

    • #32619 Reply

      Paul

      If they do not make meeting public and we do not get any info from PSP on exactly the time line for relief we will have our answer Like I already said.

  • #32615 Reply

    Snoopy

    Sorry, forgot to provide links for those who want to follow on their own….
    This first link gives the entire history of the bill:
    http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/billinfo/bill_history.cfm?syear=2017&sind=0&body=H&type=B&bn=1952

    if you click on link towards the bottom that has referred to judiciary it takes you to the judiciary schedule (which is the second link down below)

    http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/cteeInfo/Index.cfm?Code=39&CteeBody=S

    I will admit that I do not know a whole lot about the senate’s process in PA…. Will they actually look at the legal merits and shoot this thing down as being ex post facto against pre Sorna people? Will they amend / take out that part? Will they just rubber stamp it and let it go forward?

  • #32618 Reply

    Allan

    I’m so confused by this entire situation lol. So I took a plea deal on October 3rd, 2011. I pleaded to (1count) indecent assault and (1count) corruption of minors and was sentenced to 5 years probation with no jail time and was not required to register. Then was forced to register when SORNA passed.
    With all that being said, how does all this effect me? Hopefully I can get off completely.

    • #32631 Reply

      Paul

      Allan It’s my belief you should not have to reg because under the law when you were sentenced you did not have to register However I do not know how being on probation effects things

  • #32633 Reply

    Brian

    @Allan
    We were all confused at some point in this mess, watch who’s direction you fallow is all I can say on this site and others , some people are trying to help others and some not so much, Terry Brunson is leading his own mandamus and is very knowledgeable, Chuck is as well, both are good friends and I trust in their opinions because 95% of what they have said an predicted is what is happening now with the SCOTUS and PASC.

  • #32634 Reply

    Cary

    HB 1952 as of today just looked just now for recent action history.

    Most Recent Action(s)
    2820 Referred to JUDICIARY, Jan. 2, 2018
    In the Senate
    Third consideration and final passage, Dec. 13, 2017 (188-0)

    • #32644 Reply

      Chuck

      @Cary
      I am so tired of their indifferent attitude toward “sex offenders”. It’s funny when SORNA first came into effect, I contacted the ACLU and they told me they were studying the retroactive issue and were looking for a test case to challenge the issue. As you know, in order to appeal you had to have lost at trial. If you take a plea deal, you waive your right to appeal. That is why it is so hard to find a test case. Almost everyone takes plea deal.
      To me, the fact that they refuse to shut down the registry to the public shows me they want to embarrass people. I wonder if with 1952 they will make any changes due to SCOTUS. I think they were in a hurry becuase they wanted to pass 1952 before SCOTUS was done.
      I believe if any Pre-Sorna person doesn’t receive the relief they want, the law would be on their side to challenge PSP. However, I think the people “in the trenches” at PSP just want to get over this hump and move on. The policy people are all up in arms, but the worker bees just want to move on. I bet they have a lot of people calling becuase they are so stressed and afraid of 1952. The way I look st it for me is like this: they wanted to give me additional 5 years for a total of 15. I wanted to serve my original 10 and be done. So if they refuse to let me off now, and want me to finish my 2 years, I would call that s compromise. 2 years and done, ok!!

  • #32642 Reply

    Brian

    @Carry
    What does 2820 say? This bill does nothing but confuse the hell out of me, it dies tell me i will be done though.

    • #32652 Reply

      Paul

      Brian the bill is going to Senate Judiciary on Tue there is no public hearing shown on PCN schedule So by the looks of things they will not be telling the public anything PSP spoke at the House judiciary meeting with Freed PSP and the Senate Judiciary have an opportunity to do the right thing on Tue and let the public know what will happen If they do not my predictions are correct and we all should have had a writ in the pipeline. It took less then a week to go through three votes in the House so do the math.

      • #32668 Reply

        Brian

        @Paul
        I agree we should have gotten the right to speak up or at least know what’s going on, like the right to know act like everyone else has the right to know everything about SO’s.

        • #32688 Reply

          Brian

          I can’t get the PCN app to work anyway, the last time I tried it it just kept loading and never showed the confidence.

    • #32672 Reply

      Chuck

      @ Brian

      2820 is the current printer’s number.

  • #32649 Reply

    Chuck

    I can understand those that want to have this nightmare end for them and their family. That is the ultimate bad thing about the registry. It doesn’t just affect you, but everyone who loves you no matter what. My brother has been threatened just by living with me. My brother and I weren’t really that close before I was arrested l, but now he defends me at every chance he gets. He had a girlfriend that tried to tell him if he didn’t move out, he would be committing a crime becuase he has to kids.
    I truly believe PSP does not want the fight that would ensure if they chose to say”oh no guys, you have to stay on”. It goes against the principle of the rule of law, and as a law enforcement agency, that is what they are all about.
    However, the General Assemvly is afraid and will do anything to feel safe. We shall see what the next steps will be.

    • #32653 Reply

      Paul

      Hence the PASC striking down SORNA the law that went against the rule of law the constitutional law everyone knew they were going against it PSP everyone, past behavior Your brothers girlfriend is right if he lives you alone in the house with his kids he can be charged another law that is unconstitutional and un fair If someone is a threat to the public they need to prove it and then keep the person in jail the reg does not accomplish that.

  • #32655 Reply

    Brian

    @Chuck
    I always say, to each his own, and this is your own my friend, You are comfortable with that then that’s your own, I wouldn’t be, I would want off but we’re all different here and all have different opinions or views on how this all will unfold, I trust in what you and Terry say and know, that’s all I can say, from the first day we met on here you guys helped me to understand everything clearly, I can say the timelines you gave when things were due to change as the PASC and SCOTUS were spot on, rulings and all, anyone wants to question Chuck go to the good news section and read the 2 pa blogs through and through and you will understand what I mean here, it’s a lot to read but you will see Chuck knows what he’s talking about, yea I’m speakin up for my brotha.

  • #32656 Reply

    Cary

    @Brian,
    Im not sure what 2820 means. The only thing i did was to look at the recent action history. I just copied and past it. There is no buttons or clickables, or button to push to find what 2820 is. Yes, its all freaking becoming so confusing with everything going on. My guess is good as yours

    • #32666 Reply

      Injustice Project

      2820 is just the printers number I believe.

    • #32669 Reply

      Brian

      @Cary
      Yea I totally understand where you’re coming from on that, this is very confusing, I think they make it confusing on purpose to make sure people can’t understand so they can pass this bs down the line without a hitch, they do it do the average joe can’t totally understand it but people face de coded it and people are already challenging it, like you and I we will get automatic relief , many others will not though as we know, some are ok with that and done not, I can relate either way.

  • #32664 Reply

    Injustice Project

    Just seen that Rep. Ron Marsico (R-Lower Paxton) has announced his retirement from the Pennsylvania House of Representatives, at the end of the current legislative session. He is the one who wrote this new house bill. He is also the one who wrote the Megan’s law III I believe and the SORNA for PA. Its an odd coincidence that he is retiring in the near future. Just saying.

    • #32670 Reply

      Brian

      @Injutice Prodject
      Yea that is odd, Maybe he’s throwing in the towel on this 1952 because this 1952 may be dead in the water, my friend Terry said it has been sitting to long.

  • #32674 Reply

    Cary

    @Brian.
    I found out what that number is.
    It is for the HB 1952.
    Printer’s No.
    2820

  • #32693 Reply

    Injustice Project

    Ive been thinking about working on and building a website for the people of PA to talk about and share information about things like this. Would anyone use it? It would be great if the Narsol people could also use it, but it would be focused on just the state of PA. I was thinking about putting a forum and an Attorney listing page to list Attorneys that would be helpful and weed out the bad ones that are not helpful. Also a place to post updated information about the Sex offender laws things like that. Would people use it? I started working on it but stopped because I would need Admin to post Articles. Like I said I can finish building the website in a few days because I started it months ago, but I would need knowledgeable people to help post information.

    Let me know what you all think.

    • #32697 Reply

      Injustice Project

      Here is an email I set up for it, painjusticeproject@gmail.com feel free to contact me about this

    • #32701 Reply

      FredAdmin

      There are a couple people in PA working to put together an affiliated group. I think you should get in touch with them and run that idea by them. As far as I know they still don’t have a website. Maybe you could all work together. Send us an email by filling out the contact form at the bottom of this page and we’ll put you in touch.

      • #32703 Reply

        Injustice Project

        Ok thank you, I sent you the information.

        • #32706 Reply

          FredAdmin

          Thank you. It’s been forwarded to our PA contact.  Hopefully you will hear from them soon.

    • #32710 Reply

      Paul

      Yes you should get ahold of Carol mbcor0305@aol.com

    • #32738 Reply

      Paul

      Domai should be reg-war.org

  • #32709 Reply

    Paul

    @ Robin I see they are recommending that we sit tight right now. I do agree what they are saying My question is If PSP goes past Tue and does not give us a firm timeline on how they will be removing us should we not use common sense and file. There is no new law that can defeat the relief due to us by Muniz 10yr expired registrants.

    • #32723 Reply

      Chuck

      @ Paul
      I don’t think you can save time st this point by filing a writ. I think by the time you win your writ, PSP would have had your names removed anyway.

  • #32711 Reply

    Paul

    Please anyone that is due relief from Muniz please email Carol they are looking into getting an attorney to advise us or a possible class action if we can get everyone on board we can donate to make this happen. Just email her and you’ll be put in the loop. Hope we can get a meeting set up also. Carol PARSOL mbcor0305@aol.com

  • #32716 Reply

    Paul

    Greetings everyone,

    I’m writing to follow-up on last week’s US Supreme Court decision to deny Certiorari (review) in the case of Commonwealth v Muniz. Since I sent out the last email we have had the opportunity to collaborate with the National Association for Rational Sexual Offense Laws (NARSOL) and they are eager to work with us to determine the best course of action. At this time, all agree that it is most prudent to move forward in a manner that is cost-efficient and to employ a legal strategy that will provide relief the greatest number of individuals on the PA registry.

    In our desire to get information to you, we now realize that that we (the advocates here in PA) may have been premature in our advice regarding filing a PCRA or a petition for removal. These suggestions might well have the potential to be successful, however, filing your own individual action certainly will not be cost effective, and may actually be counter-productive. As such I’d like to ask each of you to consider holding off on filing while NARSOL works with us to sort this out. In addition to the guidance from NARSOL, it is our understanding that the Pennsylvania Defenders Association and the Pennsylvania Prison Society are also recommending that individual action be delayed for the time being.

    Depending on the state’s position regarding how broadly they plan to interpret the court’s opinion, NARSOL is evaluating various legal options which include a class action lawsuit. In addition, NARSOL is planning a conference call in early February which will discuss the options in more detail. You will be informed in advance of the call and the plan is to take questions from the audience.

    Best,

    Theresa

    • #32721 Reply

      Chuck

      Can I get an AMEN!!!!!!

      Me. Chuck does know what he is talking about.

      • #32732 Reply

        Paul

        Chuck I believe now you are referring to yourself in the third person get some help. You do not know anything your reason to hold off was some weird duck thing for respect to your repressors you have no input left on us so let the experts have their say I however am going to go off what info is given to the public by Tue no one can argue that they have had more then enough time to prepare a plan as has our volunteers. It is likely the new bill could be law by early feb then what?

        • #32761 Reply

          Chuck

          LOL it was a joke. I mean to type Mr. Chuck and me chuck came out.
          Oh well, never did well in typing class…Lol

        • #32762 Reply

          Chuck

          What sucks is that PSP can’t do nothing until the lawyers clear it.

          I believe they thought they would at least go to oral argument st SCOTUS. I think they didn’t plan on cert being denied. If I was them, as soon as Muniz was scheduled for conference, I would have pushed 1952 through. I bet they are all shellshocked. Smith v Doe has been the Law for a very long time.
          Once again, their insistentce to not give up the public registry shows how they truly feel.

        • #32824 Reply

          Paul

          Chuck PSP is lucky they even were able to give a brief They are law enforcement that is it Somehow they have been allowed to shove their nose around way to much.

  • #32718 Reply

    Mohamed

    Injustice Project, what is also needed is a registry for convicted politicians and law enforcement officials detailing their convictions, dates, places, positions they held and where they live too. Also advocacy should be followed to request legislators for a law requiring them to register there whereabouts every 2 days or 48 hours with a 50 years automatic penalty for failure to do so and restricting them from anywhere where people are present since they were and after conviction then become a danger to society or tax payers. How about them apples?

  • #32719 Reply

    Junior

    Paul thank you. I read your last few posts, but problm is that some people do not prefer to or use emails at all!!! So, a phone number or po box would be most appropriate for contact. You know, less digital footprint. Does this Carol person have something other thn just email?…please?

    • #32734 Reply

      Paul

      Not sure but email is how we get updated and stay in the loop if you want to remain stealth get a proton mail account

    • #32807 Reply

      Brian

      @Junior
      They don’t respond to the email anyway, I sent an email and got absolutely no response, not that they may never respond but one would think if they mean business you would be on top of it ASAP., just sayin.

    • #32852 Reply

      Brian

      @ Junior
      I stand corrected, I received a response email today.

  • #32722 Reply

    Brian

    @Paul
    Even though I am due to automatic relief I am still interested in a class action lawsuit to help others that don’t have money to chip in, I sent an email to Carol so hope to hear something soon.

    • #32810 Reply

      FredAdmin

      Who did you send an email to and not get a response from? You don’t mean NARSOL do you?

      • #32849 Reply

        Brian

        @Fred
        Carol Salacka contacted me, this is the email I received.
        Hi Brain. I work with Theresa R., whom you may have already contacted. She will get you on the PARSOL list to be kept up to date. We are tentatively planning a NARSOL call for next week.

        If you read HB 1952 it is based on the same lies as previous bills (SO are a very dangerous population.) Please call or write your representatives and the members of the senate judiciary. This bill is too harsh. We are asking for a committee to study the entire Megan’s Law scheme. It will be on the table at tomorrow’s senate judiciary committee meeting (not a hearing.) It’s important they hear from as many people as possible.

        Carol

        Carol Salacka Psy.D.
        mbcor0305@aol.com or caslcp@aol.com

  • #32724 Reply

    Chuck

    I am confused on why Narsol would recommend everyone file a legal action in the first place. PSP will do their work and remove everyone who deserves it.

    • #32733 Reply

      Paul

      Chuck please let it go remember your input was not to disrespect the PSP and legislature this has nothing to do with it Its logic please think before you comment on things

  • #32735 Reply

    LostandDevastated

    Are there any groups like NARSOL in Massachusetts?

    • #32746 Reply

      Brian

      @LostandDevastated
      I believe NARSOL is nationwide, I could be wrong, I know Florida have the Florida action comity, I’m sure there may be something in your state my man.

      • #32749 Reply

        RobinAdmin

        That’s right, Brian. NARSOL is national. We also have affiliates with various names in a number of states.

        • #32752 Reply

          LostandDevastated

          Is there anyway I could assist the organization through volunteering? I’m a newly registered citizen and want to give support in anyway I can. In my previous life I was an accomplished programmer and scientist and would like to volunteer in any way that might be helpful.

  • #32739 Reply

    Paul

    One last thing We already know what the states position is just by reading this bill. Attorneys stand to make a ton more money if they have 4000 people that need to file an appeal instead of a mandamus writ. I’m saying there is no other logical reason for not having a plan of action past Tue If anyone (other than Chuck) has a LOGIC reason for this silence please speak up Because I do not see any. PSP wants new law to minimize and delay removal. Lawyers want new law in order to increase profits. We want our due relief A class action plan can be based off the information we have had for months. PSP should have had an official statement by now and now there is complicity between everyone but us. I agree we should hold off until the judiciary meeting if we do not get answers we need to act ASAP

  • #32750 Reply

    Paul

    Terry any input ?

    • #32778 Reply

      Brian

      @Paul
      How’s do you know what the states position is or what do you mean by that? Just a question my man.

      • #32821 Reply

        Chuck

        I think what Paul meant was we know that the state wants as many people as possible on the registry. So that is what they are going to do. If they can keep you, they will. However what we do not know is how the State will interpret the Muniz decision.

        • #32840 Reply

          Brian

          @Chuck
          Thanks for the explanation, sometimes that helps I suppose. Hope all is well in your neck of the woods my man.

        • #32842 Reply

          Paul

          Sure we do just read the proposed bill That is their current position.

      • #32823 Reply

        Paul

        The new bill is the States position

  • #32759 Reply

    Cary

    @paul, are you in a team? Meaning like NARSOL team group working like something that narsol does. Im just trying to figure if your in a organization of some type. Just wanted to know cause im not sure if you are or were or are. Thank you bud for your inputs and insights on things too

  • #32788 Reply

    Brian

    @Paul
    Was on all4consolaws.org, wandering what PARSOL means as you said it’s the new NARSOL? Little confused why NARSOL would changer their name.

    • #32800 Reply

      RobinAdmin

      NARSOL has not changed its name. PARSOL is probably a suggested name for a Pennsylvania affiliate of NARSOL. NARSOL is a national civil rights organization and you are commenting on its website. NARSOL has a number of state affiliates that go by various names. Some of those affiliates go by names that are very similar to NARSOL. But they are NOT NARSOL.

    • #32803 Reply

      Theresa

      Robin is correct. PARSOL is the name that Pennsylvania advocates have chosen for the affiliate they are working on getting up and running. It stands for Pennsylvanians for the Reform of Sex Offense Laws. We are currently in the process of applying for nonprofit status. Just today we secured a phone number and an address. The phone number is: 717-820-2237. The address is: P.O. Box 399, New Freedom, PA 17349. Joe from the Injustice Project is currently working on the PARSOL website. He is hoping to have it up and running by the end of the week.

      • #32808 Reply

        FredAdmin

        That is great news. I know how dedicated you and the people you work with are. You will make a positive difference for PA registrants.

        • #32913 Reply

          Theresa

          Thanks Fred. There are so many committed and caring people fighting this battle here. If it weren’t for NARSOL and the work you do we never would have found one another. None of us can do this alone!

  • #32802 Reply

    Brian

    Think I will stick with NARSOL.

    • #32822 Reply

      Paul

      It is NARSOL the PA affiliate

      • #32839 Reply

        Brian

        Great thanks Paul, sorry it’s the little things that confuse me.

  • #32817 Reply

    Snoopy

    Whomever you stick with I suggest to everyone in PA to call and / or write their State Senators TODAY… The non-public Judiciary meeting is TOMORROW, so PLEASE DO THIS TODAY…

    Here is a link to help you find your PA State Senator:

    http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/findyourlegislator/index.cfm

    When I found my senator there was her phone number, and by her picture a picture of an envelope for her e-mail address – right click to copy the e-mail address.

    Please feel free to tell your own story when you write to them, but here is a copy of what I wrote:

    Dear Senator Boscola,
    My name is ___. I am a sex offender with a conviction date of October 2010. When SORNA was passed in Dec. 2012 I was impacted. I originally had 10 years on the registry, with 1 x a year in person reporting. Now I have 25 years on the registry with 2 x a year in person reporting. I am someone who is due relief from the PA Supreme Court Muniz ruling.
    There are lots of people who will argue that when the PA Supreme Court made their ruling in July 2017 that it completely destroyed the registry in Pennsylvania. They say this because when SORNA was originally made law – all other Megan’s Law were expired. Megan’s Law 1, 2, and 3 did not have a savings clause, they were expired. If HB 1952 is made into law and applied retroactively it will still be ex post facto. I appreciate that many items that were viewed as being punitive were taken out, but it is my understanding that if HB 1952 becomes law that you will now need to go before a judge using your own money to get off the registry because you need a judicial determination to be removed. When I was originally sentenced when my time on the registry was done I would have simply timed off and been removed automatically. Now, if you can’t afford a lawyer, you aren’t being removed from the registry – that in itself is a punitive ex post facto part of the bill.
    Also, that 10 years, is really 11 because of a base year… Strange, when people count birthdays, anniversaries, or even time in jail it isn’t base year then start counting…
    I know that I made mistakes in my life, and I have been punished for them – I just want to move forward with my life without being on the registry because I have lost jobs from people finding my name on the registry. As the PA Supreme Court said in their ruling, the state has an interest in the finality of sentencing and individuals have an interest in understanding the regulatory outcome of guilty pleas and criminal convictions. I do not know the legal processes that HB 1952 has to go thru in the senate to become law, however I do know that there is a non-public judiciary meeting scheduled for Tuesday January 30, 2018. I beg you to please consider all that I have told you and not help a bill move forward when it is very obviously illegal and unconstitutional.

    Sincerely

  • #32826 Reply

    Brian

    Ok I got a response from PARSOL now, was starting to think they weren’t gong to.

  • #32828 Reply

    Brian

    @Snoopy
    I contacted my senator, I used your templet but tweaked it a little but to fit my stuff, everyone needs to stick together here and work together, not against one another.

    • #32841 Reply

      Paul

      So does that still mean you are sticking with NARSOL even though PARSOL is it affiliate and we can more concentrate our efforts?

      • #32848 Reply

        Brian

        @Paul
        I think NARSOL may have more support at the moment, until someone explained to me it was RSOL which I am familiar with sense 2012, everyone from that forum disappeared over night after 6 months or so, I lost all hope at that point because SORNA took over our lives and there was no one to communicate with what was going on, So let me say I will stick with supporting all, NARSOL , PARSOL, ACSOL and all affiliates and groups but I will not just stick to one group alone ever again. Smartass

        • #32856 Reply

          RobinAdmin

          Just to set the record for anyone else who may wish to understand what transpired, Reform Sex Offender Laws (RSOL) formed as a national organization in 2007 and was incorporated in 2011. RSOL was certified as a 501(c)(4) by the IRS in 2014. In December, 2016, RSOL’s board officially changed the name from Reform Sex Offender Laws (RSOL) to the National Association for Rational Sexual Offense Laws (NARSOL) and merged the old corporation into a newly established corporation bearing the new name.

          The old website domains, reformsexoffenderlaws.org and nationalrsol.org, continue to remain active as redirects to narsol.org and NARSOL continues to own those domain names, among others.

          ACSOL was formerly the California affiliate of RSOL and was more commonly known as CA-RSOL until such time as it separated and formed anew. There are no remaining ties between NARSOL and ACSOL and both organizations operate quite independently of each other.

          Any other organization in existence that includes the letters “RSOL” in its name is very likely a state-level affiliate of NARSOL that works with us in advocacy within their respective jurisdictions.

        • #32923 Reply

          Paul

          Are you 95% sure ?

      • #32918 Reply

        chuck

        I believe Parsol actually hurts the cause. By subdividing into smaller groups it takes the eye off the ball: Sex offender laws no matter where they are enforced. I believe the national chapter should ban all local chapters and prohibit them in the future. Let’s work together no matter where we live. United we stand, divided we fall!!!!
        PARSOL is basically saying “we do not care about sex offender laws anywhere but Pa”. That is a crying shame.
        The last thing we want is a patchwork of laws. In Pa, you can do this, but in Georiga, you cannot. Granted, it is that way right now, but that is one of the things that is wrong with sex offender laws. I should be able to move from Pa to NY and already know what the laws are. Narsol should be lobbying for uniformity, not patchwork enforcement.

        • #32932 Reply

          FredAdmin

          Chuck, any successful organization has state and local chapters. Your comment borders on absurd.

          No, PARSOL is not hurting the cause, and you are lucky they are forming in PA. We do work together. That’s why they are affiliated with NARSOL.

          Do you know how many states still don’t have a their own chapter? They might as well be North Korea, it’s very hard for us to get accurate information out of those states, as there is nobody sending us articles and letting us know what is going on there.

          The affiliate groups hold meetings and help us raise awareness in their states, and NARSOL can support challenges to their laws.

        • #32956 Reply

          Paul

          Thanks Fred Chuck needs to take a step back and really reflect on the things he’s saying on here, he has no logic or facts in most of his statements. It needs to be said, it just distracts us from things. The affiliates in each state will increase the amount of people involved because they will take on more important roles at the same time being guided by the NARSOL and concentrating efforts in their own State. It will also allow NARSOL to free up resources to impact things on a federal level and give them the ability to be more effective on the state level. I have seen the information Chuck has been saying influence others on hear. I believe Chuck is an asset, and is a benefit, he just needs to ponder the things he says and do a little more research better.

    • #32854 Reply

      Snoopy

      @ Brian

      Glad I was able to help… lets hope that it does something good for all of us

  • #32866 Reply

    Brian

    @Snoopy
    I hope so, I hope enough people are contacting their representatives also, I don’t know why but I’ve always been afraid to contact them, I guess fear that sense I am an SO they could do something to cause me trouble.
    Do we know for sure that they are addressing 1952 tomorrow?

    • #32872 Reply

      Chuck

      @Brian
      I agree. Let’s remind our State Senators that felons can vote in Pa. A lot of people don’t know this. It changes from state to state. The only restriction in Pa is that you can’t be in jail.
      I strongly believe that if you want the registry for “public safety” reasons, then make the registry available for law enforcement only. If the public wants information, they have to provide information and jump through a few hooos along with paying a hefty fee. That will keep the nosy ones from starting trouble.
      I do believe the hysteria is dying down as opposed to what it use to be. When I was first sentenced, there were two women in my neighborhood that all they did was make flyers with every new sex offenders info on it. Once people calm down and truly consider the registry they realize that it is unconstitutional.

      Which brings me to the question: what is Narsol’s official position in the registry? Should there be one or do they correctly position themselves as the registry is unconstitutional?

  • #32871 Reply

    Brian

    @Paul
    Any idea when PARSOL’s website will be up and running, I would like to be a part of it now that I have a full understanding of it, sorry but it’s hard to trust people or hard for me to trust people.

    • #32901 Reply

      Injustice Project

      Its up and running, its http://www.parsol.org its a work in progress but its up an running.

      • #32914 Reply

        Theresa

        On behalf of the PARSOL advocates thank you so much! While it might be a work in progress, it is greatly appreciated and a fabulous start.

  • #32917 Reply

    chuck

    A friend of mine was living in a trailer park with his parents. The owner of the trailer park found out he was on Megan’s Law and told his parents they had to kick him out. They refused. So he told them all of you have to get out. So they did. My friend was in the process of getting a ride to the PSP when they came and got him for not reporting his new address. The neighbors at the trailer park reported him. This happened on July 20, 2017. The judge last week threw out the case on the basis that Muniz invalidated registration requirements for Pre- Sorna people. Now I would NOT recommend anyone abscond from their reporting requirements, but this case shows the courts are interpreting the Muniz decision as there is no Megan’s Law registry for Pre-Sorna people.
    I for one will stay in compliance until I am told I do not have to in writing. However, it is heartwarming to see a judge refuse to enforce the registry on a Pre Sorna person.

    • #33002 Reply

      Chuck

      My post must have accidentally got overlooked I know Narsol would never censor posts that are critical of them. What uphold the 8th amendment if you are going to ignore the 1st amendment? .
      I was saying how creating local chapters of Narsol is the wrong thing to do. We should focus on sex offenders laws no matter where they are enforced m. Creating state chapters just encourage everyone to ignore laws that aren’t in effect where they live.

      • #33083 Reply

        SandyAdmin

        You are correct; we do not censor posts that offer criticism. To answer your concern, almost all laws that affect registrants are state laws, and each state’s registry is under state control. Whether all registrants are publicly displayed is a state decision. Residency and proximity restrictions are state and local laws. These things must be addressed at the state level. Almost every favorable decision that has come down has been due to action taken in an individual state, and often the NARSOL state advocates have been instrumental.

      • #33086 Reply

        FredAdmin

        Your comment was not overlooked. I think you overlooked it, Chuck.

  • #32921 Reply

    Brian

    Good job on setting up the new site, just got a look at it.

  • #32937 Reply

    Brian

    When do you think we will hear something about the meeting today on 1952?

  • #32939 Reply

    JAR

    Hello. I have a mamdamus in process. My lawyer just informed me that the AG is not filing response and will send him a letter taking me of the Registry in the next few days. Your thoughts.

    • #32957 Reply

      Paul

      JAR is your Writ in the Supreme Court because the DA would respond if its in the trial court? The fastest way should be in your trial court unless it was denied.

    • #33000 Reply

      Chuck

      Congratulations JAR!!!!

      Thank you for paving the way so I don’t have to file a writ. A very happy day for the community. Now, let’s get HB1952 declared as punishment as soon as it is passed. I wish we could stop it but no one is going to vote against a “sex offender” bill in an election year

  • #32941 Reply

    JAR

    Sorry, forgot to state my requirements. I was sentenced to 10yrs registration on 2005 and changed to life by SORNA.

  • #32959 Reply

    Brian

    @Chuck
    I remember someone tried to having me evicted, I read the exact situation on line on RSOL actually, it played out the exact same way as it read online so I know who ever it was read the posting and tried having it done to me and my family but this was in a different state so PA has no residence restrictions where I live, I told the people who own the place, what are you going to do throw me out? Anyway do you have any idea if we will hear something on HB 1952 today?

  • #32961 Reply

    Paul

    Mike S
    January 30, 2018
    I just got off the phone with a very nice girl from the PA Megan’s LAw unit. I expressed my concerns over Muniz and asked if she had received my attorneys letter from last week. She had not.

    She explained that they ARE taking people off the registry after each case is reviewed. She said that they have a list. She could not tell me were I fell on the list but insured me that there is a large scale “review” in place.

    As a test, before hanging up, I asked “Jennifer, How many people have you removed from the site today?” She responded “Probably a couple dozen”. Take it for what it is worth.

    Is anyone able to download the ML website? There is a scammer out there that sells the ML data on a zip drive. I would just like to see the day over day stats to confirm that this is actually happening the way that they are reporting?
    Please everyone book mark as many people in your local area due relief and check to see if they get removed if we can confirm just one or two it will be great news

    • #32997 Reply

      Chuck

      @ Paul
      That is GREAT NEWS. I figured Pa would not want a messy and expensive fight. Now, we have to start fighting to get HB1952 declares as punishment.

  • #32971 Reply

    JAR

    Just checked the megan’s law site. I am not listed. Will check again on my computer when I get home.

    • #33081 Reply

      Paul

      JAR please fill us in on the details of your case. Thanks

      • #33088 Reply

        JAR

        256 MD 2017

      • #33089 Reply

        JAR

        I spoke with my lawyer as soon as I heard about Muñiz. After some searching he recommended I file a mandamus after the state stay expire. Meet a snag when the AG said they were not properly served so they delayed their response dead line to Jan 19th. When scotus denied, my lawyer gave them the 10 day notice to reply. That ended yesterday. My lawyer was hoping to argue the case in front of a judge bit got the call this morning about their decision of not opposing on my writ. I am no longer in the megans law website.

  • #32975 Reply

    Brian

    Nope no one from my area yet.

  • #32991 Reply

    Cary

    Nope noone in my area too.

  • #32994 Reply

    Snoopy

    Meeting to consider SB 357, SB 480, SB 897, SB 922, SB 1011, and HB 1952

    That’s a link for a video from the PA Senate Judiciary committee this morning. Go to timeline of 3:15 seconds.

    It’s short, but to offer a brief summary Chairman Greenleaf (Republican) is having a back and forth with someone… I can’t tell who. They talk about the PA supreme court ruling SORNA violating Ex Post Facto, and apparently Greenleaf was the original author of the original Megan’s Law. It sounds like his major concern would be for SVP being removed from the list (lifetime?), where-as the other guy doesn’t want anyone removed and is worried about the registry going away completely. It sounds like there will be more meetings and hearings with regards to it and they want to tweak it it and move it forward. The video did not offer a specific timeline except to say an expedited hearing sooner rather than later “within the week”.

    PLEASE KEEP CALLING AND WRITING YOUR STATE SENATORS

  • #33014 Reply

    Snoopy

    Does anyone have any thoughts on what the video I posted above MEANS?

    Obviously a hearing… To me it sounded like Greenleaf’s biggest concern was the SVP lifetime. I was wondering if the second guy thought that once you were off you couldn’t be put back on… I’m not sure… any thoughts?

  • #33018 Reply

    Cary

    I do agree with the old man in the video. The younger guy seemed a bit of in a rush to just get the HB 1952 up and voted on right away. The old guy say he is not going to vote on it unless he gets all who is effected upon this. He wants the non violent offenders to be ok to be taking off the registery. He is just concerned about the really bad sex offenders and do not want them off the registry. I agree. Reason not all violent offenders are bad. He is talking about the really really bad sex offenders that have done really really really unforgivable bad things. The true scary offenders. Think of Hitler if he was also a sex offender. With no remorse or no soul types. Those offenders do deserve the bad treatment of the laws. Im not talking about anyone on here on those bad things. Im talking about satan like evil offenders. So in a week there will be another meeting just like the video. We shall see what is to be seen.

    • #33030 Reply

      Paul

      Well lets hope they use the really really bad satanic pee test on everyone first.

    • #33066 Reply

      Brian

      @ Cary
      I thought they said this week they were meeting again or did I hear wrong?
      Such is life right. Hope names start coming off for cryin ouloud.

  • #33019 Reply

    Adam

    I contacted the Megan’s Law office today and was told that they have an “initial list” of people “obviously effected” who they are already removing, but that they will have further lists coming. She was able to confirm for me that my name was not on the initial list, despite my case being very cut and dry. When you call the office the automated response before you talk to a person says that if you are protesting your registration requirement that you should do so in writing and send it to the office. So once I hung up I wrote the following letter and mailed it this afternoon.

    To whom it may concern,

    My name is Adam —–, and I would like to formally contest my requirement to register as a sexual offender on the grounds of the Commonwealth vs Muniz decision, and request that I be removed from the registry as soon as possible.

    I was convicted in November of 2011 and my sentence did not require me to register under Megan’s Law. I plead no contest to two counts of M2 indecent assault (18-3126-A1) and one count of M2 indecent assault (18-3126-A8.) At the time of my conviction neither of these charges carried a registration requirement. As a result, my requirement to register from the enactment of SORNA on 12/20/2012 to the present time is a violation of the Ex Post Facto clause of the constitution’s of both the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and of the United States of America, as laid out by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court in their Commonwealth vs. Muniz decision.

    My being illegally forced to register for the last five years has brought tremendous hardship to both me and my family. I have lost many friends and multiple jobs, all of whom would never have found out about my charges had the terms of my sentence been honored, as is my constitutional right.

    Please work with expediency to remedy this situation, and allow me to finally begin the process of moving on with my life.

    Thank you for your time,

    Adam —–

  • #33020 Reply

    Injustice Project

    Here is a link to the hearing on HB 1952

    HB 1952 Senate Judiciary Committee

  • #33031 Reply

    Paul

    Doesn’t look like they have removed anyone yet in fact the reg went up by 3 people since lunch We need an official statement on how they are going to9 do this Now.

    • #33045 Reply

      Brian

      @Paul
      I saw that it went down by 1 then up by 2, maybe they added a couple people to the reg, no one from my area or around my job came off. Guess their going to vote on the bill and work it out later is what it sounds like the chairman said anyway, why don’t they fix it first then freaked vote.

    • #33046 Reply

      Chuck

      @ Paul

      All we have to do is look at history to see what they will do. When SORNA came into effect, it took them only 5 months to notify everyone. I see no reason eh ythis shoukd tske linger. 5 months will be right before the 1 year anniversary of Muniz.

  • #33036 Reply

    Brian

    I agree with the charemen, the one they said wrote Megan’s law, he on,y meant the law to effect people like th3 guy who killed Megan K which I agree with, it you that sadistic you should be locked away, but anyway the younger guy was rushing the chairman and he wants it passed like yesterday, he’s the type who wants everyone on the list no matter who they are.

    • #33047 Reply

      Chuck

      If you are “that” bad then you should be in prison. They are just using the bad ones as an excuse. “We can all agree on the bad ones, why not add just a few more” you put on one the registry, you put us all on the registry. United we stand, divided we fall
      .

  • #33048 Reply

    Chuck

    Chairman Greenleaf sounds like he is trying to make sure they get it right the first time.
    The young guy is he is talking to is concerned. I can understand that. However. The registry doesn’t not provide safety. I know kids who were harassed becuase their parents are on Megans Law for getting drunk and pissing outside. Should you do it? NO!!!! But it is not a “sex crime”. 40 years ago they would of given you a ticket a moved on.
    I am happy I will be removed and HB1952 won’t affect us. I just wish we could defeat HB 1952 before it was passed.

    • #33063 Reply

      Paul

      The young guy is dumb he said Megans law violators shows how stupid these guys are no testimony from anyone but Freed and the PSP

      • #33122 Reply

        Chuck

        I think he meant it in the sense everyone in the registry has been accused of violating the law, not that we have absconded from the registry.

  • #33061 Reply

    Brian

    @Chuck
    I think 40 years ago they would have got out the cop car a pissed right next to us. But I wasn’t alive that long ago either so my dad would’ve pissed next to them lol. I think people put on the concerned face for face value only, Greenleaf wants it to be done properly, the way he designed it to be.

    • #33092 Reply

      chuck

      @ Brian,
      I wasn’t alive 40 years ago either. However, I think that weren’t so scared back then.

  • #33065 Reply

    Melendez

    What is Narsol and Parsol official course of action? Why are they not saying anything? Where is the advise legal or otherwise on what to do so we are not taking advantage of or lose any rights or be toyed with? I keep reading of people filing mandamus, writing letters with other’s templates…others say wait including Narsol. Parsol said about considering a class lawsuit. So what is it going to be? Everyday is one more day that these people get away with this and one more day that many do not need to be in that awful registry without compensation for civil commitment! Maybe even myself! Will we be hutr by law enforcement in any way for writing a letter, exercising our rights, asking politely as possible or demanding that they do their jobs quick? What on Earth are we supposed to do to not get screwed!!!…while politicians keep debating and lawyers keep taking peoples money since as some guy here pointed out they can not work for free! You know, the old ethical custom of doing the right think does not exist anymore, clearly!

    • #33105 Reply

      chuck

      Let’s remember Muniz denial of Cert is barely a week old. In the legal community, 6 months is lightning speed. Let’s give Narsol some time to gather their resources to figure out what their response will be. Let’s remember PA is unique in the sense they do not allow residency restrictions on the state level. I believe we will win this fight. People are starting to see that the registry is just a way to shame.

      • #33107 Reply

        RobinAdmin

        Thanks, Chuck. It’s also important to keep in mind that neither NARSOL or PARSOL are law firms and we have to be extremely cautious about providing legal advice that someone may rely upon to his/her detriment. The last thing our advocacy organizations need is to be hit with a lawsuit or criminal sanction charging us with the illicit practice of law. This is extremely important for everyone to understand. We can work with attorneys who are entitled to provide legal advice, but we CANNOT provide legal advice of our own accord. Those are the rules. And they are very serious legal consequences to violating those rules. Attorneys are trained and licensed for a reason. Anyone (or any organization) that deigns to practice law (give legal advice) without a license is subject to pretty serious consequences for doing so.

  • #33067 Reply

    Rodney Ferrer
  • #33091 Reply

    Ken

    Well I asked in a previous post stating I was sentenced a no Megan’s Law requirement for statutory sexual assault (f2) and corruption of the morals of a minor (m3) in September of 2011 and with the implementation of SORNA I have to register lifetime how does hb 1952 affect me ? Is there any chance that I would be removed from the PSP registry?

    • #33099 Reply

      Paul

      Ken when you say no ML reg when you were sentenced is that per the judge on a plea or the charges you pled to were not registrable offenses under ML3 because I think an F3 was at that time? If ML3 did not say your crimes were not registrable offenses then they should have to take you off. My guess is you will have to fight them on it because Im sure you were still in jail or on paper when SORNA kicked in right?

      • #33101 Reply

        Paul

        F2 correction

  • #33087 Reply

    Brian

    @Melendez
    Just like lawyers, NARSOL, PARSOL and any website or advocacy need money for lawsuits, and of corse that damn thing called time which seams to be taking it’s sweet time. The only thing that doesn’t take long is sticking us on the list,

  • #33109 Reply

    chuck

    Breaking News

    My neighbor was informed today his charges were being dropped. His charges stem from not reporting his correct address. He was a dummy and thought he could sleep at his girlfriend’s without anyone finding out. We are making progress. Takes time my brothers. Its frustrating with the changes to the registry we have to refight the issue of whether or not the registry is punishment. We will make progress, slowly but surely.

  • #33128 Reply

    Brian

    10 people removed from the psp roster so far

  • #33127 Reply

    Robert

    Great news I think! Talked to a girl at the psp ml division she informed me my name was on the list to be removed couldn’t tell where on the list but atleast I’m on on it. Has anybody else been on and how long do you think it will take them to remove my name?

    • #33133 Reply

      Paul

      Awesome Robert What are the details of your reg did you file a writ what reg charges did you have thanks

  • #33134 Reply

    Paul

    I have two 10yr reg offenses spoke with Megans law section woman was nice I asked about my case she said mine might take longer to check out because of two or more. I asked should I get an attorney she said I wouldn’t waste your money and to sit tight. I hope this is all good info. I have respect for these officers because they could be easily rude to us and they are not. Lets hope we get an actual verification that someone has “automatically” been removed.

    • #33152 Reply

      Chuck

      @Paul
      I hope they get your case resolved quickly. I need my case resolved before I apply to take the CPA Exam, however I have another 2 1/2 years of schooling left. Perhaps that is why I am in no big hurry. I don’t work, so it doesn’t affect me that much on a daily basis. It does a little, but not a lot. I hope you win the peace you are looking for by being removed.
      I am glad we are getting to the point where we get more than a “We don’t know yet” when we call for information. Not much more, but a little more. I think certain people always answers the phone for certain people with the same letter for their last name, becuase every single time I call, I get the same person. Every single time!!! I kind of like that becuase you can hold them accountable for what they tell you, but I also hate it becuase I feel as though I am bothering them. Especially when you can hear the frustration in their voice. They are not frustrated at you, just st the situation. Like the woman told me, if She was on it, she would want off to.
      We had a great month, this month. Here is to a even better one next month!!!!

  • #33140 Reply

    Robert

    Paul.

    I took a plea in 2008 of indecent assault the plea agreement was 5yrs probation and guaranteed no Meagan’s law only had 3 months left on probation when they enacted the Adam Walsh act. Totally through my life into turmoil lost my job and fiancée. It’s about time they figured out you can’t punish someone twice! My lawyer said I shouldn’t need a writ.

    • #33153 Reply

      Chuck

      That is the crux of the whole matter. Until this past July, the registry was not considered punishment because it was contstrued as a civil penalty. Kind of like they when they fine you. I do believe at the hearing on Monday we should get more clarity as to how the state is going to interpret the Muniz Decision. That has been the biggest point of frustration: not knowing how they are going to apply HB1952. From the way they introduced it, it sounded like they wanted to wipe out the court decision, however on Tuesday it sounded like they realized that they cannot undo the court decision. At least for non SVP’s.
      We will find out more info as February rolls along. I am so ready for Spring!!

  • #33149 Reply

    Joe

    Here is the next hearing date for SB 1952
    Public Hearing on HB 1952 scheduled for Monday, February 5th at 10:30.

    Public Hearing on HB 1952 scheduled for Monday, February 5th at 10:30.

  • #33157 Reply

    Saddles

    Hello sweetie: (can we small talk)…..Just one of several messages I have received over the last 5 yrs. since I have been on the registry. Is this registry the ” games people play” in all this. I have never talked to one or corresponded to any of these messages but I would bet my bottom dollar that these are all set ups.
    I wish “Charlie’s Angels” would check these things out as in’s sure government are playing dirty pull to get one snagged again in all this. I believe its time for redress of grievance on all this con game. What do you all think.
    Those under the law of this registry seem to be at the mercy of fake justice……in the end..is all about money.

  • #33154 Reply

    Brian

    29 removed so far, just saw 1 removed 5 minuets ago, I’m still on as well as all in my area and work area. Can we just call psp anytime or do they have business hours, I haven’t called yet.

    • #33170 Reply

      chuck

      Brian,

      How can you tell who was removed? Do you have a list?

  • #33156 Reply

    Brian

    Does anyone know the actual number of people who were done with their ten years who was forced to upgrade who are suposed to be coming off?

    • #33172 Reply

      Paul

      Brian from what I have seen people are saying their are around 4000 people due “automatic” relief. Meaning once PSP verifies them they will come off without a cord order. This is what should happen.

    • #33180 Reply

      Brian

      @Chuck
      There is a roster on the psp website as to how may people are on and when you refresh the screen the number drops every hour or so.

  • #33166 Reply

    Brian

    So this new law in pa states that employers can’t ask if you were ever convicted of a felony, I was nosing through an on job application that said, hair you ever been contacted of a mitermener, and not sure if their allowed to outright ask this but the application specifically asks, ( Are you a convicted sex offender or have you ever been convicted as a sex offender). This is outright discrimination 100%. Does anyone know if this is legal? I was looking for bow work for when I get off the registry I can have a fresh start at a new job where no one knows me.

    • #33168 Reply

      chuck

      Brian,
      it doesn’t matter if they ask or not as when they do a background check it will come up. The reason why employers are banning the box is not that they won’t find out about your history, but they want to give you a chance to impress them before they find out. Where I use to work, if you had a felony, that would automatically disqualify you until they changed the rules. Now they don’t care if you have a felony as long as it is at least 5 years old. Under 5, it depends on what it was for and if they like you.
      I personally agree with banning the box. The reason being there is a lot more to someone than there convictions. When I was an mgr. I would hire felons as long as they could show me they want to change their life. You show up for the interview two minutes early, and you didn’t take the time to trim/shave your facial hair, and you look like you slept in your clothes, then I am sorry but I am moving to the next guy. Show me you care, and I would give you a chance.
      I applied at one place and they made me go through 3 interviews just to tell me at the end, “Man it is wasn’t for your felony, I would love to hire you”. A week later they called me up wanting to hire me. I told them I needed an extra $1,000.00/month for your mgr being rude. They gave it to me. I quit that job to focus on school.

      • #33171 Reply

        Paul

        Its important to realize even if you stay on new reg bill and do not get removed As the new bill is written your employers address is not put on the website, this huge because most employers are only concerned about customers seeing that they have hired SO this will make a big difference in people being able to get work.

        • #33223 Reply

          Brian

          @Paul
          That is a good thing employers address won’t be put up on the site, that I think actually improves the chances of someone getting a job, I had an interview where they asked if I was on the website and the next day I got a call saying the found someone with better credentials, I was upset, I shouldn’t have but I called the employer and explain my crime was over 15 years old , but they didn’t care.

      • #33216 Reply

        Brian

        @Chuck
        Yea I know they will do back ground checks wither way, my current employer did a snail mail background check and it cam back two month ps after I was hired and they pulled me into the office, I was honest about everything so they decided they would keep me, I just don’t like the fact that they ask right up front like that, but some other have explained reasons on here also which I understand, I worked at McDonald’s before but they her did background checkes when I worked there. It’s all good though, this nightmare is almost over, Monday The remand court order enforcement date is 5 Feb 2018. After that date the PSP can be suid big time for not starting the removal of people even though they have been very slowly doing so, Terry seams to think 1952 will fall on its face because they won’t be able to support how we’re a danger to society and that the will doesn’t protect anyone, so we shall see my friends.
        I didn’t see anyone come off today.

  • #33176 Reply

    Troy

    mr brian mickie D restaurants in my area many have the “have you been convicted of a sex offense” question. This is a multi national corporation with big paid lawyers so you bet you $ that they are acting legal somehow even if not to us. It is sad they go that far, but of course the counter argument will always be, it is for “safety” since we hire youngsters or have playgrounds. Social attitude or understanding has to change. Business will often look for what profits them and side with whatever the flavor of the day may be which I do understand (but not agree always with the methods obviously).

  • #33181 Reply

    Brian
  • #33182 Reply

    Tom

    Couple of points. Employers may ask for information regarding prior sex offenses since they have work that goes on tho school grounds. If they do they need the employee to get a sex abuse clearance certificate. Without it the employee is barred from working st the school. All citizens convicted of a sex crime involving minors or institutional sex crimes are not permitted to work at schools. The Employer is doing their due diligence.
    I noticed that Tier 3 —lifetime offenders— has dropped in the State of PA. The only way to get off the lifetime list is to die move out of PA or have the State remove you. This appears that the State is taking eligible people off.
    Finally if you get off the list don’t forget the ones still on. These laws are unfair to most on the registry. We need to continue to offer our support to reform theses laws. We can’t just think of ourselves we need to work for true reform for everyone.

    • #33219 Reply

      Brian

      @Tom
      Thanks for the info man, I don’t work where there or children and my job doesn’t require me to go to where children reside, but I am allowed around them but due to AWA well you get it,
      I k so they can and probably will do a background check but to me that just like asking me if I’m a convicted felon even though it’s not, that’s just my personal opinion is all.

  • #33183 Reply

    Paul

    So far 35 people less than yesterday on the reg today

    • #33211 Reply

      Chuck

      It could be more if they added some. For example if they took off 49, but added 10 you would only see a 30 person reduction.

  • #33202 Reply

    Snoopy

    I just finished calling and e-mailing every single Senator in the judiciary committee.

    http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/cteeInfo/Index.cfm?Code=39&CteeBody=S

    Their names are on the left, click on each one for their conact info.

    PLEASE CALL / E-MAIL THEM.

  • #33210 Reply

    Chuck

    To the Mods
    I was going to sign up for the Muniz conference call but it said registration is closed. If it won’t reopen, will you post the call st the conclusion for those who didn’t attend to hear it?

  • #33217 Reply

    FredAdmin

    Please consider joining us in our conference call on February 7th. We will focus on Pennsylvania v. Muniz. Visit this page for more information https://narsol.org/2018/02/narsol-in-action-pa-v-muniz/

    • #33312 Reply

      Brian

      What time is the conference at, I may be working, thanks

  • #33253 Reply

    Saddles

    You know in a way I hope everything works out for those people of Pennsylvania and I hope we all get justice. Its very ironic that all this is happening in Pennsylvania. One has to remember the Declaration of “Independence” or is that just a weathered piece of paper today or does it still have meaning?
    I would guess We the People don’t have freedom of Religion anymore, unless its with a chaperone. I guess we the people don’t have the right to redress of grievance. I guess we are not all borne equal and we don’t have free speech.
    Maybe we should all go back to American History Class and brush up on this science or basic instinct. Its getting so this country is man against man or is it war between the states again with a little sex duping mixed in for good measure.

    My hope is for all to get off this registry. For each trail one goes thru one should learn something … even government that wants to enslave others with this hanging down on one’s shoulder. Oppressing laws are not to good. Are we not we the People.

    • #33272 Reply

      Chuck

      Saddles

      You have to remember only 3% of the population has a criminal record. Every person who thinks the Government should reform the criminal justice system, there are thousands that cannot understand why you got a conviction in the first place.
      That is why it is so easy to pick on the criminals. I remember one time I was talking with my ex father in law and I was telling him how proud I was I had zero points on my drivers license. He tells me the majority of people don’t have points. I said that has not been my experience. I know several people who are st risk of losing their license due to the amount of points they have. We looked up the information and found out less than 1% of drivers have any points on their license. It goes to show you that your experience may be different than the actual average.
      So before we use terms like the governments enslaves their citizens, let’s remeber that.

      • #33279 Reply

        RobinAdmin

        Chuck,

        I would check those numbers. Closer to 30% of adult Americans have criminal records according to estimates of the FBI: http://www.politifact.com/new-york/statements/2017/aug/18/andrew-cuomo/yes-one-three-us-adults-have-criminal-record/

        • #33283 Reply

          Chuck

          Than you robin,
          Typo. I should of checked my work

      • #33288 Reply

        Paul

        Chuck the criminal justice system feeds off of criminal convictions. Administration, Court, lawyers, C.O.s, Police, parole, Prison building, Canteen, many more. Imagine how many people would be out of work if they legalized pot. It is a perpetual money feeding machine. The state of Ohio has over 100,000 people making over $100,000 / yr Going bankrupt. C.O. sleep in chairs and pull triple shifts to jack up their base pay on their last year to boost their retirement. It’s a big fin scam and the only way to feed it is Parking tickets, Taxes and criminal convictions. Ask yourself bedtime you put money in a parking meter your tax dollars payed for and see blocks of free parking for the bureaucratic welfare clan.

      • #33287 Reply

        Paul

        Chuck you’re out of control again. lol

        • #33469 Reply

          Chuck

          What I dom understand is if the are letting people off, why did they ask for a continuance in Terry’s case?

  • #33256 Reply

    Injustice Project

    Here is some information from the EEO on criminal convictions.

    https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/inquiries_arrest_conviction.cfm

  • #33289 Reply

    Paul

    Sexually Violent Delinquent Child
    58
    Sexually Violent Predator
    2,115
    Tier 1
    4,371
    Tier 2
    3,686
    Tier 3
    11,787
    Tier Pending
    2
    Total
    22,019

  • #33290 Reply

    Paul

    Page 56 line 4 in new bill is false information and should be challenged at hearing on Monday

  • #33284 Reply

    Injustice Project

    It appears that they are removing the Most Wanted first. Probably dismissing warrants. Wrongful arrests would be a bad thing for a police department with no law to back it up. Its down 40 in the last week, its down to 109 as of now. PARSOL has a link on the top of their page that you can click on to check your county by the numbers.

    • #33301 Reply

      Paul

      You are right about the most wanted the ones still up do not look like they can get relief per Muniz. Mike s has got his reg taken down today he had a letter sent to PSP by his attorney no writ so I think they are greasing the wheels that are squeaking also. I think a letter from an attorney will get you put to the top of the list.

  • #33285 Reply

    John

    Injustice Project thank you for that post and to the mods for allowing it. I have to ask however, do you honestly think that employers “typically” say that they are not hiring you for a criminal conviction? Specially when they would legally have to spnd time and resources to issue documentation detailing such decision. Come on! That does not “typically” happen if at all. Employers are slick, you know, as most business people are in my opinion. Gain (whether personal or otherwise) is what drives them. They find ways to circumbent the law. And the better ones buy or pay the law. See how that works? That is fact!
    I could begin to tell you the number of times I have been interviewed in the past 9 years to get employment to be told that “there is someone more qualified than me” or “we are not ready to proceed with your application” or “we feel that your skills does not meet our criteria”…and soooo many variations of the same answers. Only once did I actually have an prospect employer (an agency type) tell me after they had told to show up to work at X location at X time on that very day I interviewed, call me back in their office to question me about my Megan’s Law internet appeareance. I do not even think they did a so called “proper” background check. I think they just googled me! But I h-a-v-e no Proof!!! They told me their client had strict policies on hiring people “like me” (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean) and send me on my way. By the way, they spoke to me in the waiting area while ther was other people present. Oh, and I never received no letter stating that that was the reason for not hiring me even after I was already given a time and place to show up to work. they are still in business! I am still a mess financially, mentally and physically due to unable to medically take care of myself. State insurance helps a bit. Oh and over a year later after that experience, I found out from article I came accross about how employment agencies where bieng sued for improper backgrounds checks on applicants. I contacted several lawyers to end up being told that the statue of limitations to sue them had expired. They knew of course about my registered status. I will forever wonder if I was a “regular” human or on a registry but with lots of money if their answer would have been the same! Nevertheless, I did not change the outcome and it certainly screwed up my future further by further putting me in debt though I was willing to work for my bread, water and butter.

  • #33300 Reply

    Paul

    John you are right that has happened to me but also when I have been interviewed and almost have job I tell them about my conviction and they have said ok lets stop the interview and that is it. I also was put on nights after an employer found out and a month later Corperate said I was unemployable because of my conviction and that was after I told my branch manger who hired me from the gate knew everything. So they can do what they want.

  • #33307 Reply

    Snoopy

    I interviewed for a job where the application asked if you had any felony convictions within the past 5 years. At that point I had my felony conviction, but it was over 5 years so I checked no. I was brought back in for a 2nd interview and offered the job. I was introduced to everyone. They showed me where my new office was going to be. That was on a Friday. Over the week-end someone must have googled my name and seen me on the registry because when I called the HR person about forms I was supposed to fill out and e-mail back he wouldn’t answer or return my call. When I e-mailed him he said that the SPECIFIC job that I had been offered was now eliminated for another job (basically the same job) that I was able to apply for if I was interested. Even though the Vice-President had walked me around introduced me, given me an office, salary, and start date that there had been no formal written offer, and PA is an at will state.

    So in that instance I did not lie to them about my conviction, and I figured if they cared about convictions they didn’t have to have the 5 year limit on it… but that stupid registry still took it away from me.

  • #33313 Reply

    Brian

    All the applications I have ever filled out started out saying, have you been convicted of a felony in the past 5 years then it says, have you ever been convicted of a felony, why even ask the 5 years question?

  • #33314 Reply

    Snoopy

    I subscribed for the updates for HB 1952 and got this e-mail… Something tells me they may be holding this hearing, but are already planning to move it along… Is anyone more knowledgeable with the PA senate process able to offer some insight?

    Updates for: HB1952

    Upcoming Meetings
    APPROPRIATIONS (S)
    02/05/2018
    Off the Floor
    (to consider House Bill No. 1952) Rules Committee
    Conference Room

    • #33318 Reply

      Paul

      I believe they will be hearing from PSP per Greenleaf, I do not know if they will hear any other testimony If they decide to change things up they will have to do that first then vote to put it on the floor for three votes on separate days Most likely they will keep it the same.

  • #33327 Reply

    Brian

    Isn’t the one who passes the bill Chairman Freenleaf? I don’t know what the procedure for this is , Terry seams to think that the bill has sat to long and lost its knee jerk reaction that they normally get bills to pass without a problem with, but as we know Greenleaf never wanted the registry to be what it is now, Terry has been spot on on everything else, if Greanleaf doesn’t like what he hears or sees he won’t vote.

  • #33330 Reply

    r shrawder

    Just to chime in , I have been following the posts and I too am on the Pa. registry .. I have been waiting patiently for the PSP to do there job and take me off the registry … I shoulda been off 18 mnths ago ,, I wrote letters made calls to Harrisburg just to get treated and totally disrespected by these Nazis in power on the sorna board in Harrisburg … Im done been nice ,, sorry chuck but these jerks on sorna board don’t give a rats butt about anyones reputation and/ or civil rights !!!! It take them less than a week to post new registrants but then tell me they will deal with my case when they are good and ready !!! The sorna commission people ARE NOT NICE GOD FEARING PEOPLE TRYING TO DO THERE JOBS !!! They are nothing but evil doers of the powers that be …Im seeing a attorney Monday and filing once again declaratory judgment or mandamus which ever he thinks will get the job done … Theres gotta be something that can be done when the PSP violates the law of the land (perhaps civil law suit for monitary damages) …. Our CIVIL RIGHTS ARE NOT SUBJECT TO VIOLATION DUE TO THE INCOMPETENCE OF THE SORNA COMMISSION OF PA…Each day that someone is on the registry unjustly is a violation of the laws of Pennslyvania … The law enforcers are now our LAWBREAKERS

    • #33343 Reply

      Paul

      r shrawder Are you talking about the sex offender assessment board? They are not part of registration the are charged with gathering info on you before you are sentenced and give a report to the court to determine if someone is a SVP The way they do that has been put on hold by the Supreme court people like Aaron Marcus from the Phill Def Association are saying the new language to reinstate the SVP determination and reg will still not pass muster. I do not see how they would have any bering on you being kept on the reg now, the PSP on the other hand has a serious but hurt going on and they are going to have to eat their sour grapes and crow sandwich eventually I agree we need to team up on this if we can. The main benefit would be to show that we have the power to combine our forces now. I think now that we have PSRSOL in the works it will help this come to a head. We need to have a PA meeting soon and set up a board and plan of action.

  • #33331 Reply

    Ramiro Crespo

    NARSOL seeking candidates for its Board of Directors

    I noticed this person being great by the name terry being very helpful and encouraging. This person needs to be nominated and appointed to the board of director.

  • #33341 Reply

    Saddles

    @shrewder. now I liked that and yes he is right. If you have the guts to stand up and have the power and courage to help correct this thing than stand up for your right as everybody in PA needs to do. Yes good things come to those who wait. I didn’t want to take my plea bargain as I’m sure many of those on the registry did either.
    Sure I wanted to go to court at the time of my ordeal but didn’t have any type of resources. Hey if it wasn’t for NARMS and some of these other groups on the net I wouldn’t know how others are opposed to all this stuff that those with the power of the gavel can do to one. Duping for money, holding one under bondage and issues that one needs to seek really justice for all. Now one can go with biblical rules or Man’s rules, I wonder which has more authority with human’s today.

  • #33345 Reply

    Brian

    r shrawder
    The psp is moving very slow, my guess is feet dragging or making sure the wrong person doesn’t get let go, I’ve been watching the roster slowly drop and go back up like gas prices, Monday is the Is the AG’s deadline to give orders to the psp I believe, The ML site may go black in order to not publicly shame people to avoid more lawsuits until they remove people, if your due relief then I believe that the psp will give relief but they will take their sweet time doing so, I may need to retain a lawyer due to my case being out of state but I have all of my court documents from my case, I was never ordered to register, I moved to pa in 1998 , in 02,Pennsylvania state Police forced me to register for 10 years, then 12/20/2012 we were all upgraded to 15-25-life, I went to teir 2 from 1, I am hoping I won’t need a lawyer because Pennsylvania was the ones who made me register not the state in which I came from, that states registery is one that is also being challenged, and they will win their challenge I believe, I am not a lawyer this is just somethings I have learned on this site and doing other research.

    • #33358 Reply

      terry brunson

      @ Brain
      I told you that the PSP would drag feet – The PAG lawyer in my Mandamus is also trying to drag feet . She filed a motion to extend her time to file a response to me brief – She told me on the phone that she is talking to PSP to see if
      she could get them to take me off the registry without going to court.

      I thought that was strange. . . But I will not oppose her motion to extend her time. She is only asking for 10 days. . . But I know what her plan is. She is trying to give HB 1952 time to get through the Senate. . . .with a vote into law. She don’t know that I am already ready for her. . . . .

      This will play into my hands to be the first to challenge HB 1952.

      I told Churck that filling the mandamus was my best move. The only draw back is time. I must be willing to taking this fight to the PASC. I have one court in my way – it is the Superior Court of Appeals.

      They have secret court rules not published and if you miss a rule they hold you back 14 days at a time to correct mistakes. Their main function is to be the relief for the case over load of the PASC .

      HB 1952 will not be that hard to kill. . . . The PAG and PSP lawyers will say that a punitive element is needed win a victory on HB 1952 – – – – Not so Commonwealth v. Reed case proved that wrong on procedure due process and factual evidence that PSP need to give on why they think sex offender registry helps the public –

      The kicker question is IF ONE VIOLATED HB 1952 WHAT WILL BE THE RESULT? If the PSP say JAIL
      There is the punitive element needed according to Commonwealth v J.B.

      The PASC agreed with Reed and J.B. on the punitive element not being the issue any more. The PSP and PAG lawyer want to return to the civil collateral consequence rule – on ex post facto and retroactive application of law. I think the present PASC is not going to go along no more with that thinking.

      If one violated HB 1952 when it becomes law – the consequence is punitive punishment of JAIL.

      That is all is needed to make HB 1952 fail the PASC muster. A lower appeal court may see the same thing before it gets to the PASC. Either way the PASC will decided the out come.

      Under HB 1952 – this is the only chance the PSP and PAG has to hold to say that the HB 1952 has no punitive elements that violates rights in adding more punishment to a pre- HB – 1952 RSO.

      I say it do –
      1. It will be applied retroactive in application
      2. It will be in violation of applied and challenge due process rights to show that HB 1952 should apply to Pre-HB 1952 people. Pre-SORNA people should be allowed a hearing to rebut facts the PSP or PAG present.
      3. HB 1952 puts pre- HB 1952 people on a website to shame and their reputation against the reputation protection rights of Pa. Constitution Article 1 Section 1.
      4. HB 1952 DOES REACH THE LEVEL OF PUNITIVE PUNISHMENT in that it is a residual penalty from a crime you already did jail time for. A sex crime of the pass you paid for has you still paying more jail time for. THAT IS PUNITIVE. I got more if you want to know more on why HB 1952 will be defeated at an appeal challenge. I have the case law as well. If any one wants it. Ask Terry Brunson

      .

      • #33490 Reply

        chuck

        Hi Terry,
        I hope you are right. However, if you look at the reasons why the Pa Supreme Court ruled SORNA as punitive, the General Assembly has taken those things out of HB 1952. They even add a way to petition to get removed from 1952 which Sorna did not have. I feel as though it is not cut and dry as to whether 1952 will be considered as punishment or a civil penalty.
        That is my fear. I fear that with 1952 we will be restarting all over again with the court challenges. Not only that, but it will be years before we get a ruling on HB1952.

    • #33359 Reply

      terry brunson

      @ Brian
      Are you talking about your self?

      Brian – you are 10 year low level Muniz protected. YOU WILL COME OFF AUTOMATICALLY

      It is me and chuck that must worry – we have time left to do….

      I was taken from 10 years to life non SVP

      I will be done ten years May 2019 next year.

      But if I prevail in the Mandamus I will be done at the judge signature on my order to be removed off the registry.

      • #33379 Reply

        Paul

        Terry I do not see any opinion on REED other than see Muniz did I miss something I agree that Reeds lawyer argued all those points you stated, but where did you see their opinion?

      • #33482 Reply

        chuck

        Terry!!!!!
        Great to hear from you!!!

      • #33497 Reply

        chuck

        @Terry
        Yes, we do brother. 2020 will be my last time to show up for registration unless my info changed between 2020 and 2021. I do not plan on moving, buying a car, or changing any of my info. However, you never know. I have a bad feeling that they will try to claim 1952 is immune from ex-post facto rules. Sure we might win a court challenge but that will take time. By the time a court challenge would be heard, I will be off anyway. Perhaps the Pa Supreme Court would be willing to fast-track the case considering we just won this case.

  • #33368 Reply

    Manny

    Mister Brian. In ’98 when you moved to PA there was no registry. How did they even find you to let you know…force you to register? You were not even a resident at the time of your conviction or release from what your saying! Did you voulunteered your whereabouts to the police? Thru SS#? Did the other State told PA? (I mean, you said they did not make required you to register there in the original place you served so…) Did the crimelords and bullies did an illegal search to somehow make you a TI (Targeted Individual look it up) subject to harassment and abuse by law enforcement? Please help me understand. I am studying up on the Gestapo practices and tactics used by the NAZI Party during WW2. Thanks!

    • #33378 Reply

      Brian

      @Manny
      The only thing I can think of is it said in my plea agreement that it was the probation departments discretion if I was to register but they never told me anything about having to register, after I moved I was on mail in reporting and never spoke to the probation department again, I received the letter stating I completed probation successfully to. one would think when the detective showed up at my door they would have arrested me instead of tell me I had to go to the psp, but it specifically states in my transcript that the judge is not recommending mr me to register as a sex offender, I believe there was a non public registry in place in 1997, I could be wrong, your guess is as good as mine as to why I had to register and how they found me and I never thought to ask, I think I was scared out of my mind also.

    • #33380 Reply

      Paul

      Hi Manny did you get to see the documentary about the parallel between the ML registration laws and the laws put in place by hitler? The link is at the top of the page of this thread. The documentary is not so professional but the info is great, if someone re did this documentary with some money for quality production it would be outstanding.

  • #33370 Reply

    Brian

    @Terry Brunson
    Only thing in question is the out of state offense, but 1952 should take me off automatic because I was over done. I am thinking, will the Chairnan Greenleaf not see this clear as day in front of his face, or will he not be smart enough to see the punitive JAIL involved with HB 1952. Terry you are smart for not giving in until you get a judge to say Terry your done, because she court turn around and put the knife in deep a you see that my friend…. I speak highly of you Terry because you never steered me wrong and your usually right about everything.

    • #33381 Reply

      Paul

      Brian Terry is knowledgeable about this stuff However we have all fallen for the trust thing Chuck was or is pushing, we all should have saved our money somehow and got an attorney to fight this, by the time this conference call or any advice comes our way it may be to late it only took less than a week for the PA House to pass the new bill. Lets hope they don’t just push more BS into new law otherwise it will be another yr and more money all over again.

    • #33546 Reply

      Chuck

      Brian
      I think it is important to note that Muniz is taking you off.,The Muniz decision says they cannot increase your registration time. HB1952 is neither bad nor good for you. It is neutral as your time is complete.
      It is very frustrating that they are going slow. However, they don’t want to take someone off, just to have to turn around and say “oh never mind, you need to come back on”.
      I believe Pa should not be allowed to pass HB1952 until they have removed everyone due to Muniz. Then, if you want to put us back in, you have to go in front of a judge.
      Why do we have to beg for our rights? They should have to beg to take them away.

  • #33386 Reply

    Brian

    @Paul
    Can you elaborate a little bit, What Chuck and Terry have said makes a lot of sense and has up until this point proven plausible, I do understand that they aren’t lawyers, starting from when pasc made their ruling, all of the continuations, delay tactics the DA used, the psp and their amicus brief, everything they have stated has held true, if you read all the conversations top to bottom in the pa discussions you will see what I mean, I didn’t know anything till I started talking to Chuck and Terry, I suppose everyone is entitled to their own opinion though right, I think the only reason I would hire a lawyer now is to push psp to move me to the front of the line, I am going to call psp on Monday to speak to them about my removal, very politely though because it doesn’t help being an asshole I suppose.

    • #33499 Reply

      chuck

      @Brian,
      they have thousands of people who have finished their time due to the Muniz decision. I can’t wait to see their official thinking concerning 1952 and Pre Sorna people.

      • #33541 Reply

        Brian

        @Chuck
        I’m going to try to watch the conference if the it runs on my IPhone, pcn wouldn’t open when I tried using it before, Eagles won the super bowl so that’s a positive sign in my eyes that more positive is to come, I thinking if 1952,becomes a law it won’t last long, of corse it’s going to take two or 3 years to fight it and knock it down but you will be done or just about done by then, I’m hopping I don’t have to do another update, I’m going to give psp a call tomorrow now that I know business hours are until 3:30, one would think they would be open 24 hours like the rest of psp.

  • #33388 Reply

    Brian

    @Paul
    Disregard most of that comment I just left, I see what your saying, I don’t know if it’s a trust thing or seeing light through the tunnel, all I know is we will see what happens, if we’re screwed the we’re screwed, as far as I know I would be coming off, if not then I would hire a lawyer but at this point I feel confident I don’t need to..

    • #33398 Reply

      Paul

      Chuck and Terry are pretty much polar opposites on this Terry has been saying to file a writ Chuck is using the same language as Terry on some things like “automatic removal” but Chucks definition of automatic is different then what Terry and I have been saying because Chuck has Trusted PSP to do the right thing and not delay on purpose.

      We can still see proof they are trying to get the “automatic” people on to the new bill even now. It is a toss up on what will happen I hope PSP will give up and do what is right by us and the PASC But if they get a chance like at the hearing on Monday they most likely will try something and we have no one going to the meeting as far as I know. May work out soon instead of later.

      • #33501 Reply

        chuck

        Just like any other person on this planet involved in legal action, PSP has to check with their lawyers on what they need to do next. Obviously, getting a denial of cert means no more appeals. I think they might relent on first-time offenders and go after the SVP’S and repeat offenders. I think this is a wrong thing to do. They need to concede that they lost and build a new registry if that is what they want. After all, they are using taxpayer dollars to fight these cases.

    • #33396 Reply

      Paul

      Chuck and Terry are pretty much polar opposites on this Terry has been saying to file a writ Chuck is using the same language as Terry on some things like “automatic removal” but Chucks definition of automatic is different then what Terry and I have been saying because Chuck has Trusted PSP to do the right thing and not delay on purpose. We can still see proof they are trying to get the “automatic” people on to the new bill even now. It is a toss up on what will happen I hope PSP will give up and do what is right by us and the PASC But if they get a chance like at the hearing on Monday they most likely will try something and we have no one going to the meeting as far as I know. May work out soon instead of later.

  • #33401 Reply

    Dave

    My name is David Stodghill, I am a registered SVP that just maxed 8 years in prison.

    Muniz is in my county of Cumberland, and, so far, the PSP here could care less what the ruling was. I just was at the station and was informed “We don’t do anything until the legislature makes a new law”. I told them about Muniz and the administrator (on Elmerton Ave) said “Yea, we don’t worry about that”

    Just FYI, nothing in PA has changed.
    Megan’s Law III was killed by Derhammer decision. Megan’s Law II was killed by Neiman. Megan’s I by Williams.
    Right now, there is legally NO registration for any sex offender whose conviction was prior to December 20, 2012, but, try telling that to the PSP and you’ll be arrested…

    • #33408 Reply

      Paul

      If someone pre SORNA has money for bail they could not register and the failure to comply would eventualy get dropped I do not know how someone that was convicted pre SORNA that just had to register works in your case but I believe Muniz was almost the same he never registered even after SORNA and he got credit.

    • #33466 Reply

      Chuck

      Dave you are incorrect
      Megan’s Law 3 was killed by Commonwealth v Neiman.

      • #33489 Reply

        Dave

        Read Derhammer. I even have that from the superior court in one of my opinions.
        eh, doesn’t matter, I’m not here to argue on a forum, I’m too busy trying to survive as I walk around in 10 degree weather with no where to live and no where to go.

        • #33507 Reply

          chuck

          Dave,
          Are you looking for work, or you have a job and just can’t find housing? As far as work I know the Burger King on Allen rd in Carlisle is always hiring. Keith is the General Mgr. Granted they don’t pay well but at least it is something for now. And they won’t care you are on the registry. Be honest, and say you are looking for a new start. If you need housing I know a landlord that will rent to people on the registry.

  • #33409 Reply

    Dave

    I have had several precedential cases (pro se) in Commonwealth and Pa Supreme Courts. As an inmate, I helped (Read: did their legal work) and had 3 inmates released.
    I just entered a petition in Cumberland County Courts “Petition for Immediate Final Order” asking that I be “immune” to the registration effects of SORNA and all previous Megan’s Law versions.
    I have no doubt the judge will stall in issuing an order. I am currently typing up the Com v. Butler petition to have the SVP tag stripped.

    They know what they are doing is now illegal. Do they care? nope. The issue is, as most people know, PSP will arrest you and let the Court decide 6 months later…
    They expect citizens to follow the law in this Commonwealth, yet, they themselves cannot (Ie: will not) follow the rulings of unconstitutionality.

    • #33423 Reply

      Brian

      @Dave
      I agree, you should be immune to SORNA requirements due to being chargers pre SORNA, I don’t know how they will handle the rest of it though, As with the 1952 people who aren’t done their pre 12/20/2012 registration will have to finish the rest of their registration.

    • #33465 Reply

      Chuck

      we cannot expect them to snap their fingers and everything has been updated. It is going to take time.
      My concern Is finding out if the state believes they can just “overrule “ the Muniz Decision. PSP was telling me on Friday don’t get too exicited about being removed, becuase they believe 1952 gives them the right to put you right back on if they take you off while waiting for 1952 to be passed.
      This is what I am going to ask on the conference call: Can Pa just write a new law to overrule a court decision.

      • #33483 Reply

        Paul

        Put who back on Chuck? Are you going off on another tangent again?

      • #33521 Reply

        chuck

        If the state decides that 1952 is civil and thus can be applied retroactively anyone that the PSP took off who the general assembly wants on, the PSP can send a letter out saying because of 1952 you have to go back on. That is why they are starting with the clearest proof cases that they know will be coming off. The ones on the bubble, like me, will have to wait. I guess the way I look at it is, I would rather spend my energies on killing the registry than just getting removed.

        Also, with respect, my brother, I love talking to people who disagree with me. I really do.It gets old talking to people that can only say “I agree”. Please realize I do not just open my mouth. If I say PSP Megan’s Law Section said x, that is because I called them and that is what they told me during the call. I always make it a point to clearly mark my opinions with the phrase “I think, I believe or In my opinion”.
        I am NOT saying they will interpret this way, I am merely pointing out if they do, that would cause some hiccups. I enjoy hearing everyone’s opinion. I hope you will be attending Narsol’s Muniz teleconference on Wed at 7 pm. I will be attending.
        I am very glad you are on this forum sharing your experiences and opinions. I have enjoyed every post you have made.

  • #33406 Reply

    Brian

    @Paul
    Actually Aaron Marcus will be attending Monday and I am hoping he has something to say, I’m hoping he makes sure everyone sees the punitive element and everything bad about 1952.
    My wife wants to hire a lawyer to push psp to remove me ASAP, as of right now the bill states pre SORNA expired will be removed, so if they change their tone on that note on Monday we’re going to rent a lawyer for sure but as of this moment not yet.

  • #33407 Reply

    Brian

    @Dave
    I’m sure their a little pissed in Cumberland right now county due to Muniz, the AG hasn’t given psp the order to remove yet until Monday I believe, their removing people whom are expired pre SORNA 10 year, I don’t know how long your supposed to register for. As of right now unless you have a letter in your hand telling you your done they are correct, you still have to register and anyone who hasn’t gotten a letter stating so.

  • #33414 Reply

    Dave

    I was convicted in 2010…

    Welcome home…?

  • #33416 Reply

    Dave

    Testimony of Dave Freed Cumberland County District Attorney Communications Chair, Pennsylvania District Attorneys Association Before the House Judiciary Committee Informational Meeting on The Retroactivity of Pennsylvania’s Sex Offender Registration System


    Testimony of Dave Freed Cumberland County District Attorney Communications Chair, Pennsylvania District Attorneys Association Before the House Judiciary Committee Informational Meeting on The Retroactivity of Pennsylvania’s Sex Offender Registration System

    ” It will then be up to the Pennsylvania State Police to determine whether they should remain on the registry and to litigate any attempts to remove those sex offenders from the registry.”

    PSP don’t make the law… do they? </sarcasm>

    • #33464 Reply

      Chuck

      Dave,
      PSP is part of the executive branch and the executive branch cannot make law. They can only enforce law. However, they can make rules or interpret law. But no, PSP cannot make Law.

      • #33479 Reply

        Paul

        Looks like they’re doing a damn good job ignoring the law

      • #33491 Reply

        Dave

        (sighs)
        My sarcasm was definitely lost on you. I understand you are the forum troll so from now on I’ll be ignoring your posts.

        • #33543 Reply

          Paul

          Dave what sup with the (sigh) notation? I’m pretty sure sighing is reserved for women thats kind of strange. For now on I’ll be ignoring your posts. Troll

        • #33576 Reply

          Chuck

          With respect, I was trying to let you know your post was incorrect. I did not know you weren’t serious.

          I have never called you names. I expect the same respect from you. Any further rude behavior will be reported and not tolerated.
          Just because someone shared an opinion you don’t agree with that does not mean you get to call them names or disrespect them.

  • #33417 Reply

    Saddles

    Sounds like the code of the west “hang’em high” or some wild “Bill” Hitchcock ordeal going on in PA. Compromising is never easy when one is at the mercy of the “Quote” Justice System. Sounds like a nice movie script for L.A. law but this is real life. If its unconstitutional than its unconstitutional. No one can predict the future of another person in these outrageous law endeavors.
    Sure people want to be civil but going back on one’s word is un-American. I know when I got my sentence and was issued a PO he said for the next 10 yrs. “I’m the man”. I looked at him and put him in his place and I also told him its all about “Trust”.
    Now you guys up in PA don’t worry about this as everything will work out. Their are some smart people in NARSOL and smart people that got caught up in all this high jinx, and yes we all make mistakes, and if we all learn something from our mistakes to help others than that is a blessing. Think positive!

  • #33424 Reply

    Brian

    @Saddles
    Sounds like you’re PO was a real peach or someone who was power happy, people like that need to be nipped in the butt before they think they can just walk all over you. I don’t know where your from but I hope they are working on fixing your laws also.

  • #33436 Reply

    Saddles

    @Brian you know in a way your right but that’s the mentality of law enforcement. I’m sure after all this is over those in law enforcement as well as the court systems will have to understand that true Justice is not saying to one that “I’m the man” or this is how we are going to work this out. Sure court systems and moral systems of law need to be revamped.
    Just like your system up in PA who can judge another person for a mistake that they indwell on another. with this opportunity. Their are a lot of ways of doing wrong but doing right is what’s best. Remember nobody’s perfect.

    Sure we all fight storms and battles in all this sexual stigma but who is right ” I’ve even used the verse in the bible on them “let God be true and every man a liar”. Doesn’t seem they like that verse very much. The main thing Brain is getting true Justice whether in PA or any other states. If a person is wrong than they are wrong. I’ve been wrong many of times but I don’t weld the sword of justice as that is a going against the grain at times.

  • #33457 Reply

    Dave

    FYI, you all do know you DO NOT have to register in person correct?

    Look at your Pennsylvania Megan’s Law form for registration. It’s from 2012.

    SP 4-218 (12-2012)… That’s intentional.

    Figured this is old news but might be new to come.
    ONLY if convicted BEFORE December 20, 2012.
    Coppolino v. PSP 214 M.D. 2013 (Pa. Commwlth. 2014)

    Megan’s Law Substantially Upheld By Commonwealth Court

    • #33486 Reply

      Brian

      @Dave
      You can do mailins and hope it doesn’t get lost in the mail but as far as I know you still have to show up quarterly, every six months or once per year in person to do the picture thing and all until they make everything the law so I’d you don’t show up you may be screwed my man.

      • #33492 Reply

        Dave

        Hey Brian, my bad I should have been more clear, I meant for updates, not the required in persons.
        Peace out, it’s gonna be cold tonight walking around the capitol in laps to stay warm.

        • #33542 Reply

          Brian

          @Dave
          It’s all good my man, find a shelter or somewhere and stay warm bro.

        • #33584 Reply

          Dave

          NO shelters will take people in Harrisburg convicted of sex offenses. I’ve tried them all.

          I was just at the PSP again arguing about my reg requirements.
          “We are starting to remove people, we have thousands, I would expect it to take at least a year minimum until you get a letter from us”

          (sighs)

          I’m using this guys laptop here so I gotta go, at least it’s warmer out right now 😉

          We NEED a network of other sex offenders that can help woth transitional housing for people just getting released from prison. Look at the list of all the SVP’s in PA. Almost ALL are back in prison.

        • #33626 Reply

          chuck

          My friend wanted me to work out with him. So I was like “ok. Let’s go”. We get there and he tells the front desk lady that I am his guest. Everything goes smoothly. I decide to join a few weeks later. I am filling out the paperwork and there is a young mom signing up as well. The lady at the desk tells the young mother that she has nothing to worry about since they do not allow those disgusting sex offenders in. I said, “that is not true”. The front desk lady looks at me in a disapproving way and finishes up with the young mother. She informed me that I am wrong. I said “No. I know you don’t check because I am a sex offender”. The look on her face was priceless. She started panicking and screaming at me that I needed to leave. I said I am a member, I can be here.
          Turns out, they do screen members for sex offenses. Somehow my application got overlooked. They tried to keep my dues for the month. I said you allowed me in, I want my money back, or access to the club. They finally gave my money back. Took 2 months.

        • #33672 Reply

          Injustice Project

          Chuck, what gym was this?

  • #33454 Reply

    Manny

    Mr. Paul. I looked into that link you spoke of that has correlations to the laws imposed by Hitler and the NAZI Party. Thank you. Now, in regards to the part of your comment about saving or having saved for a lawyer “somehow”, how exactly do you suggest such Sir? With all respect to you, as many know or have experienced hardship we live in a Country and times where you are either rich or poor. Many live paycheck to paycheck if at all. Many more just barely live a just or fair (however that is measured) life at all. Now, triple or quadruple the difficulty of current standard of living that I just wrote for registered citizens. How are we suppose to be able to or have by realistic time frame save money for lawyers? It is not designed to be an attainable reachable outcome for RSO’s period. OK, so someone will argue my comment and say that they are successful or got further socially recognized educacation or how much support they have or how great their life is…etc.! Well the reality is that is not the case for most. Blessings however to those that had it or have it like that. I am sure many would say that those individuals worked harder somehow, are more intelligent, better citizens and therefore more deserving of their great life even as RSO’s than anyone else because no one else but those with a greater RSO’s life has made forth the effort to make their lives better. Yes, I am sure that is it! (sarcasm) Surely is how courts and justice system sees it! (truth). …oh, and before being crucified by people commenting, for years as a registered citizens I have not bought alcoholic drinks, coffee, I don’t use $ to gamble, I don’t go out to sports events or have any type of social life. I am single and will keep it that way after the desolution of my previous marriage and the pain all involved went trhu (and some of us still are). Oh, and having to keep finding work sometimes months at the time until finding one because of…you guessed it! …because of the Sex Offender Registry! (…not because of being a “bad” employee)

    • #33478 Reply

      Paul

      I hear you Manny I was more speaking to myself for not doing something earlier I understand how hard it is Lets hope things work out.

    • #33558 Reply

      Kendal

      First of all… What’s a paycheck???

      Second, every knows that RSO’s should be rolling in the dough, I mean after all, they don’t have to pay for housing, because we can’t live anywhere because of the registry. We don’t have to pay for money for gifts for our children, because we are not allowed to do that anyway. We don’t have to pay money for dates, because there is no one that would date us anyway. We don’t have to pay for work clothes, because no job would hire us, and we don’t have to pay for church clothes, because we are not allowed to go to any church either. So since we don’t have to pay for all these things, we should be rich. (Hidden sarcasm, not so hidden)

      • #33572 Reply

        Chuck

        Kendal,
        Not true. There isn’t any residentcy restrictions in Pa on the state level. I live in Carlisle and I have no problem finding housing. Most don’t even ask anymore. All they care about is if you can pay the rent.

        • #33586 Reply

          Dave

          @Chuck

          I don’t know about that, I’m coming to Carlisle tomorrow, shoot me an email, let’s hookup I’ll show you the petition I’m about to drop into Court.

          I tried to rent A LOT of places in Carlisle.
          The answer was NO.
          I have $$$, about $6k in cash.

          davidmstodghill@gmail.com

        • #33684 Reply

          chuck

          Dave,
          I didn’t see this post until today. Sorry, I missed you.

  • #33556 Reply

    Sandra

    Watched the whole thing from about 10:30am actual broadcast start was way later, but they are special so they can do that just do not not let a private citizen be late or else, until about 1pm votes and recess!!! …well, it seems the Senate passed bill 1952 anyways! Only one person (PHIL Assistant Defender) speaking on support of RSO’s. 5 against RSO’s rights…The Major PSP guy, the lawyer with him (whom did not speak), some attorney general or prosecutor dude with another former prosecutor no advocate that clearly hate RSO’s, and the Victims Advocate lady. Greenleaf was mostly concern with child custody issues being included as sex offenses.

    Not one actual registered citizen spoke out!!! Do not cry when the screw us all!!!

    • #33565 Reply

      Paul

      What did PSP say about removal?

    • #33573 Reply

      Chuck

      It was always my understanding you cannot access the Capitol building if you have a criminal record. I do not know if this is true. However, the fact that some people think this is true may explain why no one came out.

      Can you go to the Capitol building if you have a record?

      • #33588 Reply

        Dave

        @Chuck
        Yes you can still enter the capitol (I’ve wandered through there earlier this morning). You are an American citizen, it is a public building.

        • #33611 Reply

          Chuck

          @ Dave
          Thank you for the info. I did not know you could. I thought you should be able to, but I could see them baning criminal records so RSO’s could not attend. If I had a car, I would be happy to go to the hearings. Does anybody know if they live stream them? Also, where can I find the video that they post after the meeting?

        • #33623 Reply

          Brian

          @Chuck
          I posted the link to the meeting today if that’s what your talking about, I didn’t know you didn’t have a car, that blows, hope you at least have a bike or something to get around, I remember when that’s all I had then I bought a car for 300 bucks a long time ago. Hard to find a car for that cheap anymore that’s for sure.

    • #33571 Reply

      Paul

      Sandra sounds like your the first one crying that did bother to show up.

  • #33574 Reply

    Cary

    About the removal. The psp just read what the bill say. Nothing much further. They are going to move forward with the bill. They are on their lunch break right now. So as for the major concerns includes child custody to be removed from the registery. They want all violent offenders to remain on the registery and kick off pre sorna that has completed their 10 year original sentencing. Also they talked about lowering the cost of the registry. They say the bill is NOT punitive and or punishment. Its only to keep awareness for the community and give a peice of mind to the victoms. They are not hating the registery people just dont want after 2012 people to be off the registery. They say we also do care for the offenders too. They just dont want any further feature crimes. They cannot disprove or approve that it will protect the community. They just want the community to be aware of these really bad violent offenders. Nothing more as i understood the live feed. They threw out concerns and good points too. But they voted in on the bill. Next is to sign the bill. Then they will give order to execute it right away. So dont be suprised to still see your name on the registery. It will take a bit to get everyone off pre 2012 sorna off. The numbers will go down .

    • #33603 Reply

      Brian

      @Carry
      I missed the part about getting pre SORNA 10 years done are getting off, I had my headphones on my phone listening at work, maybe I was distracted and missed it, Marcus was not prepared to awnser his clients victim question, that attact him but I think he did very well amongst the wolves, they were really passed that he didn’t speak on the victim of his client, I think it was marsica that was speaking rode him on that and then the rest of them.

    • #33612 Reply

      Chuck

      The full Senate won’t vote in it? Or, did they vote on it already? I thought s bill went through committees before the full Senate voted on it.

      • #33624 Reply

        Brian

        @Chuck
        I haven’t heard anything yet, I guess no amendments mean no change to the bill but at the rate thay were spewing sht all over the place I could see them changing stuff around, Marcus did well but he was the only one on our aside unless I missed some thing. I stopped watching after the VA talked for ten minutes…

  • #33575 Reply

    Chuck

    No amendments were offered? I guess that is a good thing. I am wondering if they have formulated their plan for removal yet? Anyone hear anything about removal?

  • #33570 Reply

    Brian

    Just got off he phone with psp ,they said my file is going to be reviewed, she said their not being reviewed in order nor could she say when but she was very nice, she also said I don’t have to register anymore but if I don’t get a lettter saying I’m done to play it safe and go register when my due date comes around, I couldn’t listen to the entire senate conversation and the past, then the lady from victim advocates, there is a point where the victims have to heal and seams like she wants the victims to stay sick and know where the offender lives l, works etc.

    • #33585 Reply

      FredAdmin

      That’s smart Brian. Never ever take a police officer’s word for it on something like that. Their job is to get you to incriminate yourself. Doing so would give them a reason to charge you with something that will keep you on the registry.
      Everyone should wait until they have something official in writing, that is signed and dated by someone who has the authority to sign and date it. A desk jockey handling the phones is NOT that person.

      • #33601 Reply

        Brian

        @Fred
        Thank you, I’m no dummy lol, I hope they review my file soon, my wife still wants to get a lawyer to get me off sooner but I in a way don’t want to push them but the other side of me wants to push to get done with this nonsense.

        • #33645 Reply

          chuck

          Brian,
          I find it hard to find the value of being off now vs. tomorrow. As far as employment, they will still do a background check. If you have lived in your house for a while, everyone knows around you. Those are the biggest reasons why I would want off: To get a better job and not have people vandalize or harass my loved ones who live with me. My ex-wife would get super upset when a neighbor would come to her and say “Did you know your husband is a sex offender”. She would say yes I know, and you don’t know what happened. She threatened to kick a woman’s butt one time because she said she couldn’t go to the library with her kids anymore because I did my homework there. My wife said even if he was guilty, he doesn’t leave the adult computer lab, so how would your kids be at risk?

          Also, take the worst sex offender ever. If you let him out of prison, he or she has the right to move on with their life. Unless you are going to feed and clothe them for the rest of their lives.

    • #33628 Reply

      chuck

      Brian,
      I agree everyone needs to heal. This includes the offender and their family. This goes with any charge given. Eventually, everyone needs to heal so they can move on. I do believe some of the hysteria is dying off. It used to be way worse. I don’t understand how we can be so worried about the victims but not the offenders. They have a right to move on as well.

  • #33587 Reply

    Dave

    http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/billInfo/billInfo.cfm?sYear=2017&sInd=0&body=H&type=B&bn=1952

    DID NOT PASS YET
    Sent to appropriations

    Then it’s voted on by the Senate, still MONTHS away, talking to a guy right here in front of the capitol (hahaha) I’m still on his laptop 😉

  • #33633 Reply

    Saddles

    Now I really don’t know to much about this Pennsylvania thing since I live in Virginia but I do know that worry doesn’t get anyone anywhere. Its like the bogie man is right under your bed. Sure people have wanted to cut me down a notch or two about talking about the good new or gospel at times on here.
    You know I just can’t understand why the bible says not to put a “stumbling block” in another persons way. Sure I would be glad as anyone to get off the registry or go to court and ask for a redress which I’m thinking of doing. Now I know respect goes a long way and some of you have families and kids you are still raising that appear to be ensnared in all this also even all this mess about taking away your kids. Getting back to a normal life is good, working to support your family is good. As for myself I’m single I don’t have a family but most of you all do I’m sure and that is the sad part that this offense is effecting your family life. So its up to you all to stand up.
    You and NARSOL and others are there to help you in this crisis and promote fair and truthful Justice. If you trust in man and man’s court your doomed in a lot of this. You know sometimes preaching can go in one ear and out the other. Are you all people no better than David. Look that up in your old testament.

  • #33597 Reply

    sandra

    Yes, I was and still am crying, but for different reasons than the ones you want to label me with! Paul I was there, but not allowed in and no reasons given! I saw no Parsol or Narsol or other supporters of RSO’s ready to speak. I was! Where were you??? Comfy at home with mommy? you halfwit!

    And nothing was said about the Unconstitutionality of the bill or the application of it retroactively! Most Senators and Witnesses in favor of the bill kept the arguments alive that victims must know must have peace of mind. They showed no real genuine care for the right to the pursuit of happiness and for non-violent non repeat RSO’s as a whole to be able to move on after meeting their sentences and parole requirements etc.

    • #33689 Reply

      Paul

      Sandra what makes you think you can come on here and tell people not to cry and speak to me that way? No one labeled you anything accept called you out on telling people not to cry there was nothing anyone could do to including Mr Marcus the politicians didn’t even understand what he said and if any did they don’t care. So watch how you talk to people on here.

    • #33687 Reply

      chuck

      Hi Sandra,
      I am sorry they would not let you in. From what I heard, they sometimes close the hearings to the public to ensure it does not become a shouting match. Take comfort in the many of us going through the same situation. My ex-wife and I went to an even her grandmother explicitly invited both of us to, and some of my ex-wife’s family members were made because it was at a park and I was there. One of her cousins went as far as to call the police to have me removed. When the cops came they said he is doing nothing wrong and left. She tried to tell them I was loitering with a small child that wasn’t mine. My wife said he is my husband and you need to respect that. You don’t have to be his friends, but I do expect you to be civil towards him as he is my husband.
      My point is life on the registry sucks each and every day. What I hate is the pre-judging. I have met new people started hanging out with them, and then they would say something negative about anyone on the registry. When I tell them I am on the registry they say, “Oh not you. your not a low life.”
      My parole officer said being on the registry is like being black back in the day, and she was right in a sense. We are treated as inferior by the public, and as second-class citizens by the courts. However, our day will come.
      Some think the politicians getting caught up in sexual misbehavior was bad for our cause. I do not think so. It shows that anyone can make a mistake. I have some friends that say “there are some mistakes you just don’t make”. Really?
      I do not think that is being compassionate.
      Remember God loves us no matter who we are or what we may have or have not done. When my wife first started dating me all her friends thought she was crazy. Don’t give up. It will get better. I have several friends who enjoy hanging out with me. I even had a wife who loved me, but that other stuff ruined that. My point is we can still have a fulfilling life on the registry.
      I hope you feel better today. I find when I feel overwhelmed just asking God to help me shoulder the burden makes me feel better.

  • #33673 Reply

    FredAdmin

    I have noticed that the comments on our PA related articles have been becoming unnecessarily rowdy from several people in recent days and I had to delete some comments today that I felt crossed the line.

    NARSOL is about uniting registrants and their family members. Let’s try to remember that we are all on the same side and keep our responses civil. We can disagree respectfully, but it’s unnecessary and nonconstructive to our cause to be insulting.

    I do understand that emotions are running high. There is a lot of uncertainty and possibly fear on what the future holds in regards to the Muniz victory and HB1952. I assure you that NARSOL is following the developments in both cases and we take these matters seriously. I was also informed that four people from PARSOL attended Monday’s hearing on HB1952.

    Everyone should plan to join NARSOL’s Wednesday night conference call where the topic will be the Muniz victory and what is happening in PA now. The special guests will include an experienced attorney who specializes in PA’s registry laws and she will be taking some questions. Please see more information here https://narsol.org/2018/02/narsol-in-action-pa-v-muniz/ and consider joining us Wednesday night.

    • #33688 Reply

      chuck

      I am there with bells on.

  • #33680 Reply

    Saddles

    Yes Fred you make a very good point and I have to commend you on this. We can get all deranged and out of character about what’s going on and Fred has a right as an administer to call some people out. Constructive methods are always good so Sandra turn those tears of sadness into tears of gladness.
    We should all show respect but remember this whole sex ordeal and this miscarriage of justice also needs to be looked in two different ways. Now we all get a bit distraught about loved ones and emotional about all this court stuff but we all must understand we are guest on this site to learn also.
    Now Fred is right and we all need to respect that right……. if anything one should respect, ask yourself this should we respect wrong judgment if that’s the case.

  • #33701 Reply

    chuck

    I just want to say I care about each and every person here. I don’t care about your convictions. I don’t care what color your skin is. I do not hate you because you are homeless. I also promise not to hate you if you think I am an idiot. Our beliefs and experiences make us who we are. Growing up, I lived in a home where the electric was never turned off. My friends have lived in situations where they have gone months with no electric. I could not imagine that. We need to embrace each other. This is what I am trying to teach my niece and nephew. I am also teaching them to embrace difference of opinion as an opportunity to learn and see things in a different light.
    I hope to hear from you all even more. It is frustrating to get a big win and then the Pa General Assembly thinks they can take away your rights because of a label. I don’t care if you have committed the worse crime ever, you still have rights. If you are going to let them out of prison, you have to treat them with respect and as a full citizen. Also, I hear a lot of people look down on those who have been to jail. We are still human beings.

  • #33702 Reply

    chuck

    See??? One big happy FAMILY!!!!!!!!

    • #33707 Reply

      Paul

      Chuck I respect you for your optimism and cool head. I hope we can get a PARSOL meeting put together ASAP I have some plans for a grassroots mission in PA One would be to form some relations with local reporters in our respective locations threw out PA. This will allow us to educate the public on the facts. Also we need to expose these individuals in the legislature on just how stupid most of them are. Did anyone see how ignorant the ones on the judiciary are I can’t believe that people this dumb are actually in these positions I am not trying to be funny some of these people are just plain dumb and have no business making laws in our state. This is a serious weak point they have and we can expose it. We need a plan of action ASAP and a responsibility to get serious and follow through with this fight even if some of us get off the reg we need to meet and get along and fight together. Chuck has made this point lets fight this the best we can. Sign up with PARSOL get involved we have a chance to bring this whole thing down.

      • #33761 Reply

        Chuck

        HI Paul,
        I would like to say you and Fred have turned me around on my thinking about the local chapters. I saw it as a distraction but now I see if done properly it would be a benefit. You have local people that build up knowledge about the local regulations. Let’s face it each state is very different. For example, in Ny, if you are s tier one, the general public cannot gain information about you. I know this becuase I am dual registered in Pa and NY, becuase I spent 1 year in NYand once you are registered in NY, you cannot “move out” your requirements. I gues years ago, they had people that were “registery shopping”. For example, NY gave them 20 years but if they moved to Delaware (as an example) they would only have 10 years. So, they would move to Delaware for the 10 years, and once the 10 years was done, they would move back to NY and claim their time was done. So even when I am removed from Pa, I still have 14-16 years left in Ny. They gave me 20 years in NY but 10 in Pa becuase 20 is their lowest in NY. They even tried to raise my tier and give me life. I had to go to court and fight it. St least becuase of my income level, they had to give me a free lawyer.
        So Thank you for giving me a perspective I didn’t have.
        I am glad you guys thought about s list of questions for tonight adhead of time. I would like to add: If the state says, “ We can take you off becuase of Muniz and then a few months later out you back on due to HB1952 what legal recourse does the sex offender community have?
        Does it come down to whether HB1952 is civil or not?
        I would agree the State could say: “Ok, Sorna is punitive”. We are going to build a new registry that is not puntitive”. However, they cannot act like Muniz doesn’t exist while they go through the process with HB1952. Also there has to be finality in the process. They should not be able to say “Oh we can ignore Muniz becuase we made a new set of rules”.
        That is my major concern: That they can basically restart the clock by waving their magic wand and declaring HB1952 civil and thus exempted from ex post facto status. This is the question we need answered. What can we do if they waive their magic wand?

  • #33709 Reply

    Paul

    We need to contact Mr Marcus and thank him for his fight for us and what is right. Looking for an email for him I’m sure all of us calling him would not be good I left him a message thanking him for what he is doing.

  • #33715 Reply

    Dave

    https://cases.justia.com/pennsylvania/superior-court/2015-1911-mda-2014.pdf?ts=1441747066

    It gets better. Lack of subject matter jurisdiction. (Can be challenged any time).
    “Recognizing that approximately 20 years passed from the imposition of the sentence, Appellant argues he is
    not barred from raising the instant claim because lack of jurisdiction (and presumably illegality) can be raised at any time. We disagree. ”

    It was a subject matter jurisdiction claim.
    Read it, it’s enlightening 🙂

  • #33716 Reply

    Dave

    https://law.justia.com/cases/pennsylvania/superior-court/2014/184-mda-2013.html

    Last one, sorry guys, I’m raving.
    This is how they justify arresting someone 11 1/2 years after the statute of limitations have died.

    Pendergast v. U.S., “While a statute of limitations may permit a rogue to escape, when a court concludes the statute of limitations have run their course, no person shall be arrested, tried, convicted or punished”.
    U.S. Supreme Court

    It’s a lack of subject matter jurisdiction to arrest someone after 5552 has expired.

  • #33713 Reply

    Paul

    This is a statement from Senator Greenleaf “I was a sponsor of the Pennsylvania Megan’s Law … and I’d like to note that the original intent in all of this was to apply it to the sexually violent offenders,” said Greenleaf, chairman of the Judiciary Committee. Under Pennsylvania SORNA, just one in 10 registrants was deemed a sexually violent predator. I think this can bee used in future challenges what do you think?

    • #33762 Reply

      Chuck

      @Paul

      I would definitely argue it shows the legisture’s intent. However, I am concerned if the “Oh, we only want the worse one’s argument.” It splits the community and give them a “poster child” that no one can defend. “How can you saw this guy who did “x” “x” and “x” deverses to be free?” Simple, once you have finished your time whether inside or inside and parole, or stright probation, you have the right to move on with your life. I don’t care what you did. Once you finish your time, that is it.

      Do any of you walk up to your kids, smack them, and when they ask what that was for, you say “That is for the cookie you stole 3 years ago, and for the cookie you are going to steal in another 3 years? No, of course not. Once you are done, you are done.

  • #33714 Reply

    Dave

    Pick this opinion apart 😉
    This is one of mine (one of several)

    https://law.justia.com/cases/pennsylvania/superior-court/2017/159-mda-2016.html

    ALL rests on SORNA, pre Muniz.
    This case they arrested me after the limitations had expired (42 Pa.C.S.A. 5552).
    Remanded for entry of order.
    County judge over a year later has REFUSED to issue the order.

  • #33732 Reply

    Jason

    So this entire ordeal has my head spinning I’m I’m soooo confused. So with the PASC Muniz ruling that SORNA being applied retroactively was unconstitutional, understood. A new Bill, HB1952 trumps the ruling and people who were due relief per Muniz stays on except the original 10 years a person was to be registered has been met. What about the people who were never required to register when they took a plea deal? The Muniz decision would have taken them off but with HB1952 passing they stay on under the new HB1952?

    • #33739 Reply

      Paul

      No they will be removed. The easy way to look at this is if you had anything added to your registration rules in place before 2012 SORNA then they have to put it back to what it was. In the case of someone who did not have to register they will have to be removed. In the case of someone who had life they would stay on but will only have to report once a year no internet id the same as it was before. There will be challenges to the new bill and eventually more then the 3-5K people coming off now. My thing is we will have to see how PSP is going to react my guess has been they will try and pull some BS. And we will have to pay for attorneys. The pre SORNA people that are not part of the 3-5K should save there money and challenge this new bill also.

    • #33880 Reply

      Chuck

      Jason
      what you describe is the very definition of retroactively being applied. Muniz told them you cannot move the goalpost after the fact.

  • #33748 Reply

    Dave

    ***UPDATE***
    (For those who care)

    Got my credit cards back, found a room to rent, paid 6 months upfront, landlord says another svp lives there so he doesn’t care.

    Yay.

    • #33772 Reply

      Brian

      &Dave
      That’s awesome congrats my man and good luck, hope you have or can find employment to.

    • #33763 Reply

      Chuck

      CONGRADULATIONS Dave!!!

      I am so happy for you. I was praying for you. No one should go homeless. I don’t care what you are accused of. People don’t realize Justice is firm, but it is also compassionate. I have known many kids who have given up and said “why should I stop being in the game if this felony conviction is going to hunt me for the rest of my life.” I always think it is said when someone receives their first felony conviction at a young age. Knew a guy who got his the day he turned 18. Got into a fight and used a 2X4. Well, he was arrested on the day he turned 18. His entire adult life is gone.

  • #33754 Reply

    Saddles

    Folks, Now I know every is waiting for some relief with this ordeal that is going on with the sex offender issue about all this unconstitional issue and wanted to be absolved of all this issue that they have gone thru and I’m sure with the discison it will also help others out in other states also and it is just a matter of time.
    Now each person wants to do it their way, There’s a lady in VA that wants to go to the State capital, get the latest scope on sex offender bills and issues my area. there’s NARSOL that wants to go to courts with those willing to stand up in their endeavors. There’s WAR that wants to help those advocate after their sentence is over and several other grops that want to advocate. As for me I want to take a biblical approach on this.
    Here’s one such aproach and I’m sure everyone would panic on this one but it comes straight from the bible
    If a man is caught in the act or raping a young woman or meets a young virgin who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Than he must marry the youngwoman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
    What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her atacker? Answer: God
    While we all live in New Testament times, one has to say how is one gonna marry one that set them up in the first place. Sure they wiill pay the money to get out of this situation, be punished just for thinking it was a teenaged girl. Now who’s wrong or right with this type of set up? Now I know that some want to get off this sex ordeal and start afresh in all this but seems Government is stalling about something its as if they don’t want to give in to this unconstitutional issue. I guess the old saying goes ” O what a tangled web we (they) weave when we or they first try to deceive, but remember their ordained Ministers of Justice, so how is setting one up Justice?

    • #33758 Reply

      Paul

      Saddles what the * are you talking about?

    • #33760 Reply

      Adam

      @saddles

      I am a former pastor, and I don’t want to disrespect the way you express your faith… however, I must say that this type of thinking is dangerous, and potentially destructive to the cause if read by an outsider.

      To declare that a biblical perspective is that God wants us to sell our daughters to their rapists because of Old Testament verses, taken out of context, puts both Christians, and people who want SOR reform in a bad light.

      If this is something you actually believe, you are deeply wrong, but I can’t stop you from believing it. But I hope I speak for everyone when I ask that you not express such destructive ideas in this public forum.

  • #33752 Reply

    Paul

    Fred here are some questions that I believe will save time in the conference call if you would be able to get them answered in your questions to keep things from getting confusing These are the main general questions that most everyone is asking. Also this will give callers the ability to get more questions answered because I know you like to keep each person short.

    1. If PSP has not officially done their granular review of a persons individual case and made an official determination that they can be removed yet, will they be able to force them to register under the new law until they get to the determination?

    2. Will PSP have to give the offender an official document that they have made a determination and what it is before they give a person a notice to register under new law?

    3. Once a person registers under new law will people disputing, or have some time left on their 10yr registration have to revive a judicial determination or petition the court to be removed once their time has expired?

    4. will People with two or more 10yr reg offenses go back to 10yrs just like the people that had one 10yr reg offense due to A.S. case that PSP has acknowledged in their 2016 report on ML registration.

    5. How can we hold PSP to giving us an official statement to their plan of action and timeline for removal of people due to come off reg?

    6.If a pre SORNA person that has finished their 10yr time had a failure to comply conviction or non SO conviction pre SORNA will this keep them from being removed from reg even though they finished their time? Same question for people that haven’t finished the 10yrs but will after being on new law for a few years?

    7. Per Aaron Marcus he feels that the new bill will see some challenges like SVP determination, and still more ex post facto elements, what do the experts think will be the fait for the pre SORNA people still left on new bill?

    What do you all think?

  • #33774 Reply

    Dave

    No more SVP tag for people convicted BEFORE December 20, 2012:

    (4) It is the intention of the General Assembly to address the Pennsylvania Supreme Court’s decision in
    Commonwealth v. Muniz , 164 A.3d 1189 (Pa. 2017) and the Pennsylvania Superior Court’s decision in Commonwealth v. Butler (2017 WL3882445).

    (c) Scope.–This subchapter shall apply to individuals who
    committed a sexually violent offense on or after December 20, 2012, for which the individual was convicted.

    Section 7. The definitions of “sexual offender,” “sexually violent delinquent child,” “sexually violent offense,” “sexually
    violent predator” and “transient” in section 9799.12 of Title 42 are amended to read:

    § 9799.12. Definitions.
    The following words and phrases when used in this subchapter shall have the meanings given to them in this section unless the context clearly indicates otherwise:

    “Sexual offender.” An individual [required to register under this subchapter.] who has committed a sexually violent offense. The term includes a sexually violent predator.
    “Sexually violent delinquent child.” As defined in section 6402 (relating to definitions)[.] if the determination as a
    sexually violent delinquent child is based on an act of sexual violence, as defined in section 6402, committed on or after
    December 20, 2012, for which the child was adjudicated delinquent and determined to be in need of commitment for
    involuntary treatment as specified in Chapter 64 (relating to court-ordered involuntary treatment of certain sexually violent persons).
    “Sexually violent offense.” An offense specified in section 9799.14 (relating to sexual offenses and tier system) as a Tier I, Tier II or Tier III sexual offense committed on or after December 20, 2012, for which the individual was convicted.
    “Sexually violent predator.” An individual [determined to be a sexually violent predator under section 9795.4 (relating to assessments) prior to the effective date of this subchapter or an individual convicted of an offense] who committed a sexually violent offense on or after December 20, 2012,

  • #33775 Reply

    Chuck

    @Paul
    As to your first question, The answer is probably yes they can simply because until they say so, you are still on the registry. You would of thought the Pa Supreme Court would of given PSP guidance on this. Something like, “Hey, you have “x” days after the decision is final to get your stuff together. If you can’t do that, then we will remove EVERYONE.” That would of got their butts hoping. Otherwise, they can just take their time, let the clock run out, and then say “Oh I am so sorry. Muniz said you were to be removed NOW, however this new law says your are screwed. Better luck next time!!!
    If the state can just “ignore” a Court ruling, why even challenge the law in the first place if they can just work their way around it? Also their was a post on here that said due to vested legal rights, the state can’t wordsmith their way out of a court ruling. However, with 1952 that is exactly what they are doing? Whoever made the “civil law” exception to ex post facto was dumb, because that is what the state will claim every time.

    • #33798 Reply

      Paul

      Actually Chuck we have no registry right now They have just decided to keep our info up on web site. Section H and I both say if your time has expired under old laws than it does not apply so Im pretty sure they can’t make you register until they can prove it applies to you.

      • #33862 Reply

        chuck

        I agree we do not have a registry. Just as soon as PSP processes the Muniz Decision. Until they do, there is no Muniz Decision. At least this is how the lady at the Megan’s Law Section explained it to me. I asked them how they could just ignore a Court ruling. A SCOTUS ruling at that. I think we should ban together and make the state acknowledge that Muniz is in force and there is no registry for Pre-Sorna people.

  • #33765 Reply

    Chuck

    What makes the SCOTUS denial so telling is that they only need 4 votes to grant cert. not only that, Kennedy and 1 other Justice was on the bench that ruled on Smith v Doe (2003). Kennedy voted for Smith v Doe. Right here, also in Snyder v Doe, was there chance to say, “Yep, we still believe we can still screw the offender.” Yet, they didn’t. I don’t believe people truly understand the importance of their denial. Smith vs. Doe has been their “Gold Standard” for many years.

    In effect, by denying cert, they indirectly overturned Smith v Doe without officially doing so. This is a big deal! They are only s few SCOTUS rulings that are considered life changing, and Smith vs Doe was concerned one of them. “Oh, the Court will NEVER overturn Smith vs. Doe!!! Well, they indirectly just did!

  • #33766 Reply

    Chuck

    The last time I called the Megans Law Section they asked me, “Are you guys getting together and trying to work this decision as a group? We have been getting the same questions/ responses!!

    I said, “Yes Mam!! We are unified. The power of the internet!! The Internet was you sword to shame us. Now, it will be the sword that kills you. Live by the sword, die by the sword!!

    That is the funny thing by weapons. The same one that is helping you today can be the same one that kills you tomorrow.

  • #33764 Reply

    Chuck

    The state should never be able to continue behavior that was deemed illegal by passing a new law. They are ignoring a Court ruling. In a way, they are ignoring SCOTUS becuase if they disagreed with the ruling, they would of granted Cert. Thus, they back the Pa Supreme Court ruling.

  • #33759 Reply

    Timothy

    How is it that the PSP Attorney General Senate Judiciary have not been held in contempt of court? How are there not people fired and out of their posts for violation of their duties and public trust (RSO’s are also still citizens I believe and many tax payers)? This decision was made last summer!!! Where is the darn class action suit for relief and money compensation for damages each day we are unconstitutionally and unlawfully on the registry??? Wow, No lawyers interested in free mass amounts of cases (over 17,000 RSO’s affected according to the PSP) and easy money? really? …naahhh! I still can not believe that no lawyer wants it! All this wait manure is exactly that, manure! We and our families have been waiting long enough and then some!!! Enough. Someone help us for the right ethical and lawful reasons already established and written in “parchment” now!!! I am not donating another cent or my family until this changes as determined by Muniz for everyone! Everyone single one!

    • #33882 Reply

      Chuck

      Tim,
      When the General Assembly passes a law it is presumed it is constitutional. In other words, it is up to the people challenging the law to prove it is illegal. So, because of this, you cannot ask for damages because the law was legal.
      They could have shut down the registry until they got it sorted out. Yet, they decided they didn’t want to do that. Oh well, it would be tough to get past the qualified immunity the state enjoys.

  • #33795 Reply

    Dave

    SB 1952
    NO MORE COUNSELING FOR SVP convicted BEFORE Dec 20, 2012:

    (a.2) Counseling.–The following apply:
    * * *
    (2) An individual who is subject to a counseling requirement under a sex offender registration statute
    following conviction in another jurisdiction where the requirement is based on the commitment of an offense on or
    after December 20, 2012, for which the individual was convicted, commits an offense if [he] the individual
    knowingly fails to comply with 42 Pa.C.S. § 9799.36.

  • #33799 Reply

    Brian

    @ Admin @ Chuck @Paul @Terry Brunson@ Carry @Snoopy and people in Pa, my wife has grown very impatient and is about to flip on someone, I know I don’t need a lawyer to get off the registery but she demands I get a lawyer, she would like to know of any good experienced ML lawyers near Philadelphia that wont rip us off, I know I am no longer required to register as I found out Monday from psp directly in Harrisburg ML section 800 number, I have heard that they have to pay $1000.00 a day to keep our pictures up on the website who are due to come off but I don’t know how true that is. However I’m not looking for money I want my picture and info down ASAP, thanks for any information.

    • #33807 Reply

      Paul

      Oh one more thing Brian you can put me down for a class action and I’m sure the other guys will join up too.

      • #33864 Reply

        chuckYou shouldn’t

        Of course. I am in. I think it is important we get the Pa Supreme Court to either call them on their delay tactics or declare that they are ok with it. I would love to hear the state explain to the very same Court that ruled against them how they can wave their magic wand and it is as if their decision never even existed. I think what the Pa Supreme Court would say “Well you should have thought about this before you tried to have your cake and eat it too.” It’s like my nephew: He will play with the puppy rough until he bites him in playful return. Then he cries.
        I hope you guys are planning on joining tonight. I think we will get our questions answered. I just hate it when people try to change the rules because they lost.

    • #33804 Reply

      Paul

      Two guys are the best A.S.’s lawyer last name is Anthony J Petrone Law Office (215) 569-1000 in Philly and Reed’s lawyer Samuel Stretton Law Offices (610) 696-4243 West Chester

    • #33806 Reply

      Paul

      Brian let us know about what you hear I was just thinking the same thing today if there is no law to reg to then how can they keep us on the site.

    • #33819 Reply

      FredAdmin

      @Brian I hope you and your wife will be joining us on tonight’s conference call, where you might get some of your questions answered.

      NARSOL in Action REMINDER – Pennsylvania v. Muniz

    • #33865 Reply

      chuckYou shouldn’t

      Brian,
      PLEASE do not listen to them about stopping your registration. Continue to do so until you get your letter. **** them. We need clarity before we run off half-cocked. Besides a class action may be better. Not to mention, many more pockets to help with the costs.

      • #33891 Reply

        Brian

        @Chuck you shouldn’t
        I’m not that dumb my friend, I been around the bush a few times, they told me I don’t have to but I see and have seen the games psp play, my last update they tried to get me to admit to report things that weren’t true, a few visits prior I got a new job, when I updated it they didn’t remove my old one, I said how’s come you never removed my old stuff, they said oh it all stays on your report now, I said if I don’t work there take it off and they removed my old job, I would have been violated for sure. They tried to make me think it was ok to have something on my report that was in correct.

  • #33808 Reply

    Tom

    Brian. Save your money. I have had a lawyer working on my case for awhile. It takes time and money to file a writ. And like the Muniz case it takes forever to get an answer. The lawyers for each side go back and forth forever. Every time a motion is filed the other side gets at least 30 days to respond. If you are scheduled to come off based on the Muniz case ͏y͏o͏u willl be taken off. No lawyer will get it done any faster.

    • #33822 Reply

      Paul

      Tom Mike s on all4consolaws Had Petrone send a letter to PSP last week and he just got removed so maybe your case is different then the people that should be off the reg right now I think everyone that has a cut and dry case should send a letter to PSP right now people have received real results.

  • #33812 Reply

    Paul

    Another thing It will be at least 90 days until anyone would have to register under the new bill so they are deliberately keeping us on the site. This is a law suit no question.

  • #33834 Reply

    Brian

    I’m going to listen to the call tonight andd see what they have to say. Thanks everyone, oh and chuck I meant to add you in the list to sorry pal.

  • #33837 Reply

    Maribel

    To former Pastor Adam and anyone else concerned about Saddles last freedom of speech, freedom of religion post made. I can not will not speak for the person Saddles, but I will comment what I think was meant. “The hypocrisy” of lawmakers, ruling elite and the public. Many laws in this Country were made and still are on Christian or religious Principles. “A lot” of the people pushing for this laws identify themselves as being religiousor participating or “belonging” to a congregation or group that engages in “religious” activities lawful or otherwise. Please don’t ask me to quantify the numbers to validate my understanding. I don’t do polls and often am skeptical of them because, polls can be used to manipulate too. But also take into consideration that while the many people pushing for these laws would say that they want these laws because, of “their religious beliefs or convictions” the many will not openly say so and keep it “secret” or to themselves privately. Whether people want to see it, understand it or accept it is not my call, but it is historical fact! An open mind, connecting dots and being broken from the “hypnotic” trance the rulers have over the populace might be needed to achieve this knowledge. “They” make and adjusts the “rules” or laws to suit their control over the masses ultimately is not for everyone’s safety, but they own subsistance. Pastor Adam I do appreciate your concern because, sadly in this day and age people read, see, hear smell what they want to and fits their thinking even if illogical or without having the “full picture” of the subject or factual history… And Saddles I am not saying you are wrong to lawfully express your views or understanding or comparison. Like I said, I will not speak for you! …Nor judge. Moderators please do with my post\comment as you wish please. I am just an observer and not an instigator.

  • #33838 Reply

    Tom

    Paul. A letter to the PSP makes sense. Filing a court action does not. A writ requires the case to be listed in the courts and requires a judicial response. I know that Reed is no longer on the registry. His lawyer is Sam Stratton. Gilbert who also received a favorable ruling from the Supreme Court is still on. Reed and Gilbert received favorable rulings from the PASC after Muniz was decided. I just don’t think at this point a court action is needed if you fit the case that matches Muniz. Post SORNA registrants need a new court action or a law revision

    • #33851 Reply

      Paul

      Tom we have known about Reed and the other cases for months I have spoke with Sam Stratton twice and Aaron Marcus both say the best choice right now is a writ. I have waited to see if PSP would give a response or official statement they have not. So after the phone conference I will decide on what I’m doing I am right now leaning on sending a letter to PSP haven’t decided if I’m going to have a lawyer do it. You guys are just now getting info we have known for months If you want to take your chances go ahead but if someone has the means then they should have an attorney send a letter because people are getting off the reg now that have.

    • #33946 Reply

      Bruce

      A writ, if necessary, is expensive. I called a firm that is listed in an earlier post on this board (not in the recommended firms) about two weeks ago, and shortly into the conversation, the lawyer tole me it would be $7500 with no guarantees. That’s too pricey for me, especially in light of the uncertainty. I am a Tier 1, sentenced in 2005, and have finished my 10 years two years ago, so I’m willing to wait. Good luck to all with your individual circumstances!

  • #33839 Reply

    Dave

    It takes a long time to get anything done in court. You file a motion, judge has 14 days to consider, then sends to DA, they have 30 days to respond, then the judge has 30 days to rule.

    Case in point, read last 4 entries:

    https://ujsportal.pacourts.us/DocketSheets/CPReport.ashx?docketNumber=CP-21-CR-0000801-2010

    I’m going to try to be there at 7pm but, I can’t find a computer, I won’t be there.
    I’m constantly borrowing people’s computers to type on 😉

  • #33840 Reply

    Dave

    INTERESTING SB1952, page: 56
    “(2) These sexually violent predators and offenders pose a high risk of engaging in further offenses even after being
    released from incarceration or commitments and protection of the public from this type of offender is a paramount
    governmental interest.”

    This is rediculous, because, sex offenders actually have a VERY low rate of recidivism.

    Did anyone else actually read this bill in depth?

    • #33850 Reply

      Paul

      Yes Dave we have not much we can do about the lies they say

  • #33855 Reply

    Saddles

    I am a baptist myself and I do remember a lot of my teachings growing up, course I wasn’t a hot champion on the Old testament myself, but the old testament gives us examples. Believe it or not their was a lot of killings, murders, rapes and everything. Even King David had his wrestles at times. You all say but what’s this got to do with today.
    This was example or statement that I brought to everybody’s attention from Dueteronomy about the rape issues. See the point is are those in authority hypocrical today. Sure David made wrong mistakes but he still had his faith and belief. Today we have good government and bad government but who’s right in the end. I believe everybody can say who’s right in the end or show we just let our conscious be our guide. I guess one could say some Governments have a cricket in their pock or a snake
    Maribel seems to be the only one that knew where this was going since it seems all those are up in the air about this relief of some of these people in this sex registry thing. Didn’t we all have Hitlers back in WWII and other forms of brutish Government. A little bit of christian principals go a long way and by the way I do have my mustard seed faith.
    Sometimes we all have to look at all this as opportunity to learn where to put our hands, respect women’s persons as remember we are all property of God. Now a lot of you all spent some yrs. in prison for this and that, some on probation and some wanting to get out of all this bondage. I know government is not doing the right things in some of this sex offender stuff thats more the reason why people should speak up. I believe we all still have faith in a loving God today no mater if your sins are scarlet, but please dont’ be a reprobate.

  • #33854 Reply

    Cary

    My only guess is this: the psp will waite for a final day of the bill to be in full force. Yes, i see that they took a bunch off the count list. But, hardly even touching the tier 2. Ummmm i dont know what im talking about from the biginning of everything from day 1 of july of last year. Lol

    • #33881 Reply

      Paul

      What are you talking about ?

  • #33858 Reply

    Daniel Solomon

    What is Muniz law office phone #? And the number of all successful lawyers on all Sex Offender cases in PA? And do all this guys work probono? No high profile expensive and arrogant stuck up lawyers needed to be provided, not interested. I assuming no one posting here is wealthy or you wouldn’t be here posting and caring to begin with! Aren’t lawyers supposed to take x amount of cases as probono legal assistance as obligated by the BAR association and as part of being issued,renewed their law license? (which they get reimbursed from the government thru our tax $ for their fees and cost anyhow) How much money per hour are we to be paid for violation of Scotus order? I a lawyer needed for that or they send a check home?

    • #33872 Reply

      chuckYou shouldn’t

      @ Daniel
      Muniz’s lawyer was the Cumberland County Public Defender’s Office. Also the ACLU.

    • #33874 Reply

      Paul

      Daniel Solomon There is no SCOTUS order there is a decision in the Muniz case by the PASC Muniz is a defendant SO not a law office I believe he had a public defender and Aaron Marcus helping him. Unless you have a pending criminal case you’re not getting a free lawyer Not sure why you think you should get one free. Some people on here can afford a lawyer but having a lawyer doesn’t mean you will get anywhere unless you know whats going on with the law so that is the reason people are here not to get a free lawyer. Most of the attorneys talked about on here are not stuck up they have provided advice and guidance. Lawyers got to school for many yrs and spend a lot of money to start a practice they shouldn’t have to do everything for free Just like when you or your kids get sick and go to the emergency room instead of paying to see a doctor it is just the wrong thing to do but some people have no problem with it and old people having strokes or kids in pain from broken legs suffer in the waiting room because the ER is full of runny nose kids with parents wanting a free ride and they have no shame in doing it. Same as when they are at Walmart getting groceries for free talking on their iphone8 with a Gucci purse no shame.

      • #33883 Reply

        Chuck

        iPhone X is way better paul….lol. Just saying, while typing on my iPhone X. Lol.

        • #33890 Reply

          Paul

          I still have a 6 plus waiting for the next round 👀

  • #33877 Reply

    Chuck

    @ Daniel
    Poor church mouse here. They satisfy their pro bono requirement by helping charities

  • #33892 Reply

    Chuck

    3 minutes till the start guys!!!!!

  • #33893 Reply

    Chuck

    I am listening to the conference. The attorneys just agreed that we should sit and wait.

    • #33941 Reply

      Paul

      Don’t listen to him listen to the entire call you will see when I and others hold them to the specific they flip flop and say PSP prob will put people on new bill even if they do not finish the review and the fact that bill is being delayed it might change so unless PSP tells you they are reviewing your case and when it should be done you need to get an attorney do not get put on this new bill do not allow it to happen

  • #33889 Reply

    Paul

    Registry numbers since 1-30-2018
    SVDC -1
    SVP -4
    T1 -22
    T2 -8
    T3 -51
    Total -86 = 21,988

  • #33900 Reply

    Chuck

    Now that the experts have said I was correct in advocating in waiting I hope we can dispense with the writ talk.

  • #33915 Reply

    Brian

    Seeing that I’m an oos out of state offender they said out of state offenders are priority, but we have to make psp aware of our oos status, I will be calling tomorrow and letting them know, I didn’t stick around for the question part but there was a lot of great info and my wife understand what’s going on now, thud I’d the only thing that calmed her, I tried abd tried narsol helped. This was my first narsol call, To the Administrators and everyone involved, I just want to say thank you for your time and all of the valuable information you guys give.

    • #33925 Reply

      Chuck

      The conference wrapped up at 10:05 pm. Even though I have been saying it since day 1, I was surprised the attorneys said to wait. That shows me they care and they don’t just want to get paid. So we now know for sure PSP is looking to apply 1952 to Pre Sorna people retroactively. So their position will be HB1952 is civil in nature and thus not punishment.
      We also know with 100% certainty that Pre-Sorna people who have completed their time have nothing to worry about HB1952. I loved how the attorneys stated that this group would gain no value in trying to get off now vs a few months from now. This will help unify the sex offender community. I think the panic was that somehow 1952 was going to wipe away relief from those who were due relief under Muniz because they had finished their original sentence. has been completed. The experts have weighed in and we now know this fear is false.
      After listening to Lea speak, I would DEFINITELY retain her if I needed an Attorney. She was organized, prepared and she wanted to answer questions. I loved her answer to PARSOL’S question about how to find an attorney you can trust. She was everything you want in an attorney. Someone who knows what they are doing, and cares about her clients. I could tell by the amount of knowledge she had, this wasn’t just a way to make a few bucks for her.
      If you guys do decide to hire an attorney, hire her!!!!
      One thing I thought was disrespectful was everyone kept referring to her as the “lawyer lady”. If you are going to talk to someone at least take the time to say “I am sorry I forgot your name. What was it?

      • #33937 Reply

        Paul

        Chuck I think you need to re listen to the call She said that she doesn’t know if people will get their reviews done before the new bill goes into effect so most likely you’ll be put on new bill hoping the finish review also if bill gets changed and then past fast you will have no reaction time. If you call and PSP and they can not give you a n answer that you are on the list for review and a time to be reviewed you need an attorney Also anyone with 2 or more 10yr offenses you need to file asap her words not mine. So because we do not know why bill is being delayed in appropriations could be to allow time to seek a change in it then pass it fast before we can do anything slowing people to go on to new law and then not be able to come off. I was right about the 18mo and right about no automatic thing all cases will be granularly review and could easily take longer than time to put you on new bill the lawyer said they will put you on bill before review is done if they want to. DO THE MATH FOLKS. We need info from PSP now.

        • #33958 Reply

          Chuck

          Paul
          Until 1952 is finalized it is going to be tough to make progress in removing people once all the no-brainers are finished.I feel like I have all the information I need for my case: Just relax and wait for PSP to do their review.
          I do think once 1952 becomes effective, we need to challenge the retroactive nature of 1952. First, get it declared as punishment. Then, go for the throat with cruel and unusual.

        • #33960 Reply

          Chuck

          Paul,
          That is not what was said. They specifically said getting an attorney was wasteful. Lea and Robert both said that. Only get an attorney if it has been months and you haven’t heard anything. Lea and Robert both concurred.

          By the way, I listened to every second of the call. When I do research I am very thorough. I agree Lea couldn’t say that
          Lea could not say they will definitely be done, but they did say either will be or should give an update letter. Of course, Lea could be wrong. With her experience, I believe she has the skills to make an educated guess. Also, what she says sounds plausible.
          What I really enjoyed was that Lea squashed the idea that PSP simply will not remove people. They are human and may make a mistake, however, they will not simply refuse to remove people.

        • #33971 Reply

          Paul

          But chuck they are refusing to remove people now and delaying review and plan of action no one said they won’t remove anyone ever they are still hoping the new law will release them of the duty to review and remove people The only way to circumvent their delay is a lawyer forcing it right now After all there is no law for us yet perfect time to get off before something gets changed. They had their chance to do the honorable thing so it just proves they will delay until they are forced to comply. I hope tomorrow some post they got removed without doing anything You can say I told you so all you want.

    • #33926 Reply

      Chuck

      @ Brian,
      you missed the BEST PART. Lea was AWESOME!!! She knows what she is talking about. So did Bob. I stayed for the whole 3 hours. Thank you Narsol. That was EXACTLY what we needed.
      By the way, I love the idea of the next call. For those who don’t know, on Feb 28th they will title the call “Can they do that?” This is where you can double check the information you are being told by PSP, probation, and Parole or anyone else that has authority over you concerning your registry/sentence.
      It sucks they will apply 1952 retroactively to me, and I will be off before 1952 can be challenged, but I am ok with it. I can’t enter the job market until I finish school anyways. It stinks from a dating perspective, but oh well, I found one who didn’t care. I will find another.

  • #33929 Reply

    Will

    The fact that a Las Vegas sex offender was murdered due to his status as a registrant should be proof-positive that Judge Matsch in CO got it spot-on by ruling the Colorado registry unconstitutional on the grounds that it violates the 8th Amendment’s prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment. In Judge Matsch’s ruling he pointed out that the cruel and unusual punishment came at the hands of the public because they use the registry to target, harass, threaten, etc. the offenders listed thereon. He pointed out that the punishment these offenders face at the hands of the public goes far beyond what was imposed by the courts and is in fact cruel and unusual punishment.

    Colorado sex offender registration act is unconstitutional, federal judge declares

    • #33948 Reply

      Chuck

      Will
      Judge Matsch’s decision was an as-applied challenge. Which means it only affects the 3 sex offender’s involvement in the case.

  • #33931 Reply

    Paul

    Looks like we need rot call PSP and ask them is our own individual case on the list to be reviewed and how long will it take to be reviewed If they can not answer that its time to file no if ands or buts about it. I was right about them taking up to 18mo and that automatic review is up to 18mo so unless they give you a time line you most likely will be put on new bill sorry to say they haven’t reviewed anyones case yet.

    • #33947 Reply

      Chuck

      Hi Paul,
      I wish you could have listened to the conference call. If you had of, you would have heard Lea Bickerton and Robert Cicchinelli both say the WORSE thing we could do is go to court. They even threw cold water on the idea of filing a class action or even filing for a restraining order to enjoin the enforcement of 1952 while it is being challenged in Court.
      Lea also reinforced the idea that 1952 has no effect on those who are Pre-Sorna and their time is done. First, you have to be Pre-Sorna, and next your time has to have been completed to have to worry from 1952.

      Lea also threw cold water on the idea that PSP will not review cases. It will take time, yet we do not know how much. Furthermore, she said she doubts PSP would leaving people hanging when 1952 becomes active who has not had their review done. Probably, in her opinion, they will send a letter that basically says “Hey we haven’t done your review yet. 1952 is becoming active, keep doing what you have been doing until you hear back from us.
      When dealing with legal issues it is very important we do not allow our emotions cloud our decisions. I also learned something new on the call. I thought the way that they were going to get 1952 to affect Pre-Sorna people was to state that 1952 is Megan’s Law 2 revived. I was wrong. Lea and Robert said that 1952 will be a new law. Megan’s Law 2 is just the template they are using. The way they are going to get 1952 to affect Pre-Sorna people who have not finished their time, (Like me and Terry), is by claiming it is not punishment.
      To sum up, the PSP will have people in your situation REMOVED BEFORE ANY legal action would be completed. This is what Lea and Robert determined.
      They also said that the reason why PSP is moving slowly is that they know 1952 will reduce the amount of work they will have to do aka 1952 will take away Muniz relief from some of those that would have received relief that was due it if PA did nothing after the Muniz decision.
      Also, Lea also claimed that Pa would have a strong argument against a PCRA because the 60 days you have to file for one has expired in her interpretation.

      • #33963 Reply

        Paul

        Chuck Im pretty sure Robert said up to 18mo like I said.

        Lea said anyone with an two or more 10yr reg offenses needs an attorney like I said

        Lea said she doesn’t know if 10yr reg people will be reviewed in time and will most likely be put on new bill if reviews is not done.

        Robert said that it is strange bill is in appropriations must be delay to change bill they could remove 90day window to reg

        Fact is they pretty much have no idea what PSP is doing and either do we because they are not saying

        Fact is no one knows what the new law will be yet and if any of us will be able to get off once we are on

        Fact is PSP wants to keep us all on reg

        Fact is right now people are being removed from reg with the help attorneys

        Fact is Lea said if you want to speed things up a lawyer can do that

        Fact is out of state people need an attorney

        Fact is lea said anyone with two or more 10yr reg needs an attorney

        Fact is you are going on new law no mater what you do so easy for you to tell everyone else sit tight

        Fact is we were told to contact PSP and get confirmation they have us on the list for removal and how long it will take People have a were told nothing other than the can’t confirm anything

        Fact is PSP is in violation of a ruling from the PASC and they are leaving us all on reg until they can put us under new law

        So to sum things up Call PSP tomorrow if no answer to list and time question call lawyer and send letter and file writ to get off no chance takin as far as bill being pushed through the worse it is the better our chances of getting it struck down like Gump said Thats all I have to say about that

        • #33987 Reply

          Chuck

          We DO NOT want them to fix the fatal flaws in 1952. We want the fatal flaws in there so we can kill the law in court. We do not want a registry. Let them pass 1952 with an interference of custody on there. Let them pass 1952 through in-person reporting. Let them pass 1952 with all the errors SORNA had that they don’t want to change. The goal should be killing the registry not keeping it.

        • #34009 Reply

          Chuck

          Paul,
          My understanding was that it is 100% clear and understood that those who are already finished with their time has nothing to worry about. So your group, those who have finished, have nothing to worry about. Lea did say a lawyer COULD speed things up, but she also said it was a waste of time and money.
          Think about it. A few months either way is not going to break the bank. I can understand the whole “It’s my money. I WANT IT NOW” mentality. However, it is not helpful.

          Also, PSP is NOT refusing to take people off. They are just doing it in their own way. We have to remember HB1952 is going to change the number of people affected by Muniz. At least until 1952 can be challenged. The last thing PSP wants to do is mail a letter saying you are off, and then having to mail a second letter that says “Oh no. Due to 1952, you have to go back on”. So yes some people are unable to get their case reviewed as of right now. However, that does not mean PSP is “refusing” to review their cases. They simply do not have all the information they need. This is why I am not on the initial review list. I haven’t finished my time, so therefore 1952 may make me finish my time. I believe that 1952 cannot be applied retroactively but until the Pa Supreme Court says so, most likely than not it will be applied retroactively to Pre-Sorna people who have not finished their time.

          We have to remember that Pa has conceded that they cannot increase the length of your original sentence due to Muniz. No matter how narrow you interpret Muniz that fact cannot be disputed. The only question that remains for those Pre-Sorna people who have not completed their time, can they be forced to register under 1952. Obviously, it is the position of Pa yes they can. Obviously, we disagree. However, no matter what you can only do what your original sentence says. Since you have done that, you cannot do more time.
          Some people are confusing 1952 and Sorna. Sorna DID say we are INCREASING the length of your pre sorna sentence, and too bad about you. 1952 does not say that.
          To me, the idea that we want to put your picture name and offense on a list but only if you committed a sex crime is targeting. The argument that sex offenders are more likely to re-offend than other criminals has been at least discredited. At the very least, the registry should be viewed by law enforcement only.

        • #34011 Reply

          Chuck

          Paul
          you cannot be in violation just because you can’t conform within 3 seconds. What would be our showing that they are in violation when they are removing people. I suspect they could show not everyone who has been removed had a court order. Critical thinking skills, my friend. That would be an impossible standard to meet for Pa. I did think, before the call, that pushing for the site to go dark was a good idea. However, like Lea pointed out, having the site go dark for post sorna people would be unfair to Pa. Asking them to separate Pre-Sorna and Post Sorna people would be unfair to them. They only did what they thought was legal.

  • #33938 Reply

    Cary

    That is what i been trying to tell people is to wait and thw numbers going down. But, of course i never know what im talking about acording to paul lol. A lot of people say fight fight fight now now now hurry get attorney. Im like why would I no reason. But of course i dont know what im talking about anyways.

    • #33945 Reply

      Paul

      Here I am going to make this a simple as possible for you

      Why are you still on reg if you have automatic removal?
      Answer because your case needs reviewed up to 18mo with they have not reviewed any yet and won’t until your on new bill.
      Why is Mike S. not on reg since two days ago?
      Answer he had attorney send a letter to the PSP

      Rest my case

      • #33961 Reply

        Chuck

        Paul,
        I have no idea if this true, but I asked PSP how many people were doing the removing they told me less than 10. Takes time my friend. In the legal world, 12 months is fast. Yes, I agree they known about Muniz since July, yet they did not know if SCOTUS was going to overturn or not. Remember the official position of Pa was that Muniz should be overturned. I have no proof, yet I believe Pa thought that SCOTUS would at least hear Oral Argument. I bet in their wildest dreams they did not think we would have a denial by now.
        I have been asking myself that does the fact that removal does not really help me right now has affected my position. Perhaps a little. Yet, I do not see people increasing their hatred just because Muniz was approved. That being said, everyone in the world has had YEARS to do whatever they wanted to us. So what gives them more motivation to mess with us now as opposed to July 18 of last year, one day before the ruling?
        If you could make a phone call and scream for a few minutes and bam you are off, ok then do it. Yet, I fail to see the value a lawyer could provide someone who is Pre-Sorna. Just like Lea said, unless they are going to sue on your behalf, there is not much they could do, and to pay thousands of dollars to get off 3 months early seems a bit rich.

        • #33968 Reply

          Paul

          Chuck it docent mater if they have 1 or 1000 people set to remove people Robert even said they have not even started the review process they won’t until the new law is in place to grab us all up. The 80-100 people removed so far are part of a short list that were smart and lawyered up. I get them saying to sit tight but they believe PSP has a list for review they don’t I was told by PSP last week they only have a small list. Our goal is to get on the small list not the new law once we are on new law they will make us get an attorney to get removed anyway watch and see they are up to something in the appropriations right now thats what Robert said he said it has no budget so its an odd delay tactic. It may not cost thousands maybe a letter will do trick So if some gets no answer from PSP on how long it will take to be reviewed and if they are on a list for review they better do something Cary thinks she’s right she said she will be off before July she’s an out of stater she needs a lawyer I hope PSP starts to do the right thing but so far they have been coy about everything if they plan to do the right thing they would have. I get a person that has one 10yr reg or no reg under old law to sit tight it will take a serious miscarriage of justice to not review and remove these people fast, but we have no information on even those people being reviewed yet not one. We do have conformation of a person getting removed with a simple letter from the Boss AKA Patrone so at least a call to him or someone else like Sam Stratton lawyers that have already got people removed per Muniz and taking their advice is a smart thing to do. A person with an out of state or two or more reg offense or had a failure to comply leaves too many variables and I’m sure they make up a large majority of the 3-5k that should already be off reg but PSP has not removed one yet who hasn’t lawyers up go figure

        • #33992 Reply

          Chuck

          Paul,
          Yes, they have started the review process. PSP said they started the day after the denial came down. You can call them to confirm that. Also, that is why people are coming off. A couple people have gone to court but not that many of what PSP has said.
          Let’s take the 18-month estimate. Any lawsuit is going to take longer than 18 months. A writ may be sooner but still be 3-6 months. I believe people in YOUR group will be done by then. Not every Pre-Sorna person but the “no-brainers” who are finished will be off. However, if you want to spend the $$$$ to make yourself feel as though you are doing something, then it is worth it. It gives you peace of mind, then ok. I am just saying if you are looking for the funds spent to give you a “return” then I don’t see it. I spend $30.00 for a pizza because I simply do not want to drive to go get it. I know I would save money picking it up but I just don’t want to leave the house.
          I am just trying to make the case so everyone can weigh the options against their criteria. I do not mind spending money if I feel it is worth it to me. Case in point: I have an iPhone X. Yet it costs $40.00 per month but at that price, it is worth it to me to have an advanced phone. My ex-father in law cried spending $100.00 total in price for a phone. Mine will be almost $1,000.00 by the time I pay it off.

        • #34085 Reply

          Paul

          Chuck you big tipper you. LOL I got you but the other big problem is letting them put you on new bill I don’t trust it and do not want to be put on it because they are using the review process to justify it I believe a letter and writ will be quick because the DAs are not challenging it anymore so maybe 60days tops

    • #33943 Reply

      Paul

      Its a shame that you’re being right are wrong is clouding your judgment you should be worried about what they said tonight it went right over your head again

  • #33944 Reply

    Cary

    So, yes out of state offenders like me and over the 10 year mark by 3.5 years will mostly be the first to go off the registery. Following all 10 year mark past due instate and then the rest after as i understand it as Brian had stated a few postings ago. But, i don’t know what im talking about according to paul lol

    • #33962 Reply

      Chuck

      It’s all good Cary. We are here. Doesn’t matter how we got here. Although it does feel good to have a grip on things. I hate 1952, but I feel a bit better in the sense I think we can beat it. I just want to get that “punishment” label back on the registry. That is the key in the fight to kill it once and for all. If it was simply an online posting of your criminal record, I would not like it but I think I would have to concede that may be legal since your record is already public.
      I also like the idea that Lea addressed making the PSP make the registry dark for Pre-Sorna people. I thought this was a winning idea. I was surprised when she shot it down. The only question I thought they didn’t answer within the context of the question which was the question of a judicial determination. I want to know in the context of 1952 what is a judicial determination? I interpreted as meaning if SCOTUS upheld the Muniz decision, PSP will not force 10-year Pre-Sorna people to finish their time. Some has interpreted to mean the few Pre-Sorna who will be held over has to go in front of a judge to be removed even after their time has expired. I guess we shall see.

      • #33969 Reply

        Paul

        Chuck that is the best news from them tonight they confirmed what Aaron Marcus told me in July and the senate that he bets the new law will not pass muster ex post facto per Muniz. Lets hope thats the reason for the delay my Bet is we will see some changes to this bill before it gets past to Wolf lets hope its in our favor.

      • #33970 Reply

        Paul

        I wonder if PSP can prove that they have tangible reason to believe 16% will disappear How do they think people do not disappear now because they don’t want to get a new charge doesn’t matter if they are on site or not. We can move now and don’t have to tell them anything there is no law for pre SORNA they are making people reg when they don’t have to. In reality 100% already disappeared from SORNA. The judicial determination only applies to being removed from reg after 25yrs I read it over and over it does not show up for 10yr reg only in section B for out of state

        • #34012 Reply

          Chuck

          Paul,
          I think it is very dangerous to say that a Pre- Sorna person can just walk away. You may be right, but I would not want to bet my freedom on it. Please, everyone, stay current. Ask ANY lawyer they will tell you to stay current. Robert last night actually addressed this very point on the call.
          I understand everyone is afraid they are going to do the same thing they did with SORNA. 1952 is NOT SORNA. They are similar but not the same.
          EVERYONE STAY CURRENT!!! Relief will come. I will bet my freedom on that.

        • #34070 Reply

          Brian

          @Paul
          The ml lady said we don’t have to register no more, but I would keep reporting all changes and go update when it’s yiur time to update, that’s what they want, us to think that so they can arrest us.

        • #34081 Reply

          Paul

          Brian I hear you, I do not have the balls to test this scenario out, as I do not think anyone here does ether. I was using it as an example of how we are ether going to take off from reg or not, having us on the site or taking us down has nothing to do with someone deciding take off, especially if they know they are going back on. Their 16% is BS and they know it. My other post say to follow what they say. PSP has now accepted that they can’t prosecute people because they would have false arrest on their hand that is why they are saying you won’t be getting an update notice, and they are saying if you do that you should comply.

  • #33972 Reply

    Cary

    @ chuck i hear ya bud. I dont like the 1952 as well even though its in my own favor. Its just not fair for those who will be stuck on it. Im not completely sure if the the Committee unanimously voted to pass the bill on to the Appropriations Committee has been passed threw to the next final stage to be in full wffect and into full law at rhis time. Prob not cause its been only 3 days since the 5th. Im not sure when the gov. Will sign it.

    • #33988 Reply

      Chuck

      I think it is important to remember that 1952 is NOT “helping people” per se. Due to the Muniz decision, you will be off, but that is NOT due to 1952. There is a difference between something helping you, and something not affecting you. Also, I believe the end goal should be no registry as opposed to a better one that some are asking for. Maybe the R in Narsol should stand for ‘repeal” and not reform.

      • #34079 Reply

        Paul

        Chuck I hear you thats what we all expect but PSP is basing everything off of new legislation otherwise you would have seen all pre SORNA people blacked out and a lot more people removed. So we have to put ourselves in PSPs frame of mind and the most defiantly are looking at new law to decide how Muniz effects us. That is the reason we have so much conflict. Its like being in a fight in a mud pile we have the guy down but he’s still slipping out a squirming so he will get in a few more shots before he gives up.

    • #33981 Reply

      Paul

      We will let you know when its back on the senate floor that way you’re not confused

    • #33982 Reply

      Paul

      http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/billInfo/bill_history.cfm?syear=2017&sind=0&body=H&type=B&bn=1952

      Check bill 1952 status in Appropriations only has one floor vote.

  • #33993 Reply

    Chuck

    PS.
    I have upgraded my iPhone every other year since the 2nd version in 2008.

  • #33989 Reply

    Paul

    I told you did a search in bill 631 90 day thing is gone They have us now we had our chance to file now its gone

  • #33990 Reply

    Paul

    Strike that I found the 90 day thing its still the same wow

  • #33986 Reply

    Paul

    Things are looking good for Out Of State Offenders looks like they have to register for less than life not good
    A.1) EXCEPTION TO 10-YEAR REGISTRATION.–EXCEPT AS PROVIDED UNDER SUBSECTION (B), AN INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERED TO BE AN OFFENDER UNDER SECTION 9799.56(B) (RELATING TO REGISTRATION PROCEDURES AND APPLICABILITY) SHALL BE REQUIRED TO REGISTER WITH THE PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE FOR A PERIOD LESS THAN LIFE, THE DURATION OF WHICH IS TO BE DETERMINED UNDER SECTIONS 9799.54 (RELATING TO APPLICABILITY) AND 9799.56(B

    Section B is out of state offenders

  • #33983 Reply

    Paul

    BREAKING Bad News Bill 631 no longer HB 1952 I wonder if this falls under single subject rule? Prob not.

    [altoonamirror.com]
    HARRISBURG — A bill seeking to deliver a legislative fix to Megan’s Law for sexual assault offenders was positioned for a Senate floor vote after a key senator gave a green light Monday.

    Sen. Stewart Greenleaf, R-Montgomery, repeated his strong objections to the House-passed legislation, House Bill 1952, at the start of a two-hour hearing Monday morning on the Judiciary Committee, which Greenleaf chairs.

    Following the hearing, Greenleaf voted with colleagues to approve the bill, which addresses concerns the Pennsylvania Supreme Court raised about Pennsylvania’s sex offender registry.
    The Senate later voted to amend the provisions of HB1952 into House Bill 631, another House-passed bill dealing with probation for a category of sex offenders.

    Greenleaf said he decided to move the legislation and vote for it after getting assurances during the hearing from Pennsylvania State Police officials, who said they would provide recommendations for improving Megan’s Law.

    Greenleaf wants to address issues beyond the scope of HB1952, which was introduced in response to the Supreme Court’s ruling last summer in the Jose Muniz case. The court ruled in favor of Muniz, convicted of two counts of indecent assault of a 12-year-old girl.

    Greenleaf called attention to the need to focus on the most dangerous sex offenders and better manage an offenders registry that has expanded greatly since Megan’s Law was first enacted in 1995.

  • #33980 Reply

    Brian

    I may be wrong but they did say getting a lawyer is a waste of time and money buuuuutttttt and feel free to correct me if I’m wrong buuuuuutttttt o thought I heard her say for 10 and done out of state may be worth getting the attorney to get off sooner, am I going to? No but I am going to call them and I and going to send them a letter certified with tracking and all stating I am a 10 and done out of state SO, going to save my money in case I need that lawyer down the road if they turn around and try sticking me back on, then I will sue the sht out of them on some kind of ground because god knows it will be in violation of the constitution or something to that effect, as SORNA made people that were done long before SORNA inactment get back on the reg which was bs, they were done and should never have had to get back on, they didn’t re offend that I know of any cases anyway.

    • #34006 Reply

      Paul

      I just spoke with PSP ML section

      1. Everyone pre SORNA is going to be reviewed.

      2. They have list but they have no designation on them who they are.

      3. They do not know yet if people will be reviewed before the new law kicks in

      4. They do not know yet if people that have not been reviewed by the time new law kicks in if they will be put on new bill before review is done.

      5. They said people that have attorneys are getting off the reg now.

      6. They said we do not have to register and won’t get a update notice but she is still telling everyone to do so to be safe.

      7. I have a phone interview today with Ryan Media guy from the PSP to do a article for PARSOL I will be asking questions to clear things up for everyone so they can make a better decision on how to move forward

      8>. Please read new bill 631 no longer 1952 we need to make sure nothing got snuck in.

    • #34007 Reply

      Paul

      Brian right on you got 10k use some to have Patrone kick things up a notch for you Im sure a letter won’t cost much compared to a writ. I just realized something we are overlooking when you call the ML section the messages has been telling us all to send a letter to the PSP this may be all we have to do to get on the short list or even be considered.

  • #34010 Reply

    Brian

    Ok so who does this new bs effect then? Guess their going to keep inventing things to try and keep people on.

    • #34027 Reply

      Paul

      Brian unless you have an SVP from out of state you should be good bill looks the same so far

      • #34061 Reply

        Brian

        @Paul
        Oh ok good I was getting bent out of shape again over this, I was never designated an SVP even as a quote on quote upgrade, it’s actually a downgrade in my opinion , it dowqn grades our entire life, I would consider getting off the registry as an upgrade if that makes any sense lol.

  • #34008 Reply

    Bruce

    /just called the PSP ML 866 number. I’m a 2005 Tier 1 conviction, no subsequent criminal activity: a “no-brainer”, automatic removal in my opinion. Spoke to a polite, helpful woman. Questions and answers:
    Q: Is there a timeline for removal?
    A: No. They are thoroughly reviewing 17,000 cases, looking for subsequent criminal activity.
    Q: Will it do any good to write a letter requesting removal?
    A: You can write, but it will not do you any good – they are doing these in alpha order, and it won’t move you up in the line.
    Q: Will you be darkening profiles on the site for those who are subject to removal in the meantime?
    A: No.
    My suggestion is we (the “no-brainer” / non-1952 types) leave them alone, be patient, and save your time and money on writing letters and lawyering up, unless there’s an urgent need to accelerate or you don’t mind spending the money.

    • #34025 Reply

      Paul

      Bruce what does subsequent criminal activity have to do with anything?

    • #34026 Reply

      Paul

      Bruce I just called them about this you are right in part they are reviewing cases right now with is contrary to what Ryan told me a half hour ago However they are looking for any new sex offenses only no other crimes will effect someone from being removed She also said that a letter will not help because they have to do the same process for everyone however Mike S had his lawyer send a letter and he was removed a week later. She did say the best and fastest way is to get a court order. I believe her that they are reviewing cases but I do not understand Ryan giving an official statement that they are not reviewing cases right now I guess we will have to go by people reporting they have been removed and the total left on the site it has dropped by 8 people so far today. I agree with you we should save our money for a few more days or a week tops we should have more information by then. I just wish we were not getting conflicting information from PSP.

  • #34028 Reply

    Guillermo

    PSA (public service announcement): I have done a google search for civil rights civil litigation attorneys in the areas of cumberland county , berks county, york county, dauphin county and have called 17 offices… my searches gives me law firms that DO NOT handle this type of litigation and none have been willing to help direct me to one that does takes a case to sue the everything out of PA, PSP and all involved in the legislature!!! Can someone help with this please? Any one else found any lawyers to work on consignment as Mrs. Lea Bickerton advised yesterday on Narsol in Action conference call? I want to sue PA for monetary compensation for everyday since last summer for the violations of my rights! (and coincidentally, everyone’s rights). Someone helpful please!!! No unhelpful answers I beg of you all! Has anyone here on this site or someone known to someone here on this site been able to or does have an attorney working on consignment to sue PA, the PSP and all that need to be sued? If so, please provide that contact info. I am tired of waiting to do nothing and get nothing in return while being violated in every manner possible. You can take it metaphorically, literally, symbolically I dont care!!! These criminals in power only understand loss of money and they need to loose after all they have done to take money and ways to support myself and my loved ones away from me and us!!! Please help me! Please help us!

    • #34058 Reply

      Paul

      lol are you the guy that tried to scam the gift card and asked about the 1000 / day ?

  • #34022 Reply

    Brian

    I’m going to save that 10k in case this new bill 631 has some kind of effect that will keep people 10 and done on, the lady from psp told me there was no specific order they were going in, wander why they told Bruce that now their going in order unless they are getting organized now.

  • #34024 Reply

    Paul

    Ok I just had an interview with Ryan at PSP media relations.

    I asked him if the have started a review process of pre SORNA people and he said they have not. They are still waiting to get more information from the legislature before they determine how they are moving forward.
    He stated that the have no recommendation of what SO due as far as wait or get an attorney.
    I asked him is PSP going to recognize people with two or more 10yr reg convictions the same way the have prior to new bill, they recognize the A.S. decision in their 2016 report on ML, He said to send him an email and he would get back to me on that he docent know of the top of his head. I asked him is there a current review list He said no they are waiting to hear from legislators. I asked him will any of the people that have had their 10yrs expire or were not on reg before SORNA will have to go on to the new law if they have not finished their review process when the new bill kicks in. He said we do not know still waiting for legislation to give in put. I asked him who were the 80+ people that they have already taken off the registry He said he does not want to comment on that. I asked him where they are coming up with the 16% of people will be missing if the pre SORNA people are taken off the site before review is complete, I asked is it information from another state that had the same issue, He said it is based on passed experience. He said they have no review process in place.

    Please contact an attorney maybe we can get a group of people together and get discount on a letter to PSP and look into a class action to force PSP to give an official time line and action plan.

  • #34039 Reply

    Tori

    I heard the entire phone conference of Narsol in action yesterday and I want to emphasize how thankful I am for everyone’s time in the panel and callers. Now I know I will be criticized for saying this but I thought that Mrs. Lea Bickerton (Attorney) and Mr. Cicchinnelli (PA Prison Society) spoke too kindly about law enforcement, legislators and the PA Governor. I get that they do not want defame anyone as professionals themselves, but Governor Wolf is a politician and will not go against the legislature specially on a election year. Mr. Cicchinnelli kept talking about how interesting Wolf is and references to surprising action on Wolf’s part on the legislation before signing it if at all. It is not typical for a politician to do the right ethical lawful things anymore at least not without scrutiny and a magnifying glass. Sad isnt it! So, he is not going to do anything surprising at all. He is going to sign the bill and let the heat fall on the legislature if there is any to be had. Many of them will retire, not seek re election, lose election or resign for some controversy as they been having lately. Ultimately they will not care what happens, how many they jeopardize on the registry, or the cost or burden of lawsuits because many wont be there to deal with it and all are immune from prosecution anyhow! Also, no one on the panel spoke or callers asked about a Class Action Suit approach to help all affected or seek monetary damages. I noticed people posting about and no one has provided concrete answers. Sad as well!

    • #34145 Reply

      Chuck

      HI Tori,
      We have to remember that our representatives are just that: our representatives. They represent what the public wants. Like it or not, the majority of people do not think sex offenders should be allowed to have rights. One father in the Chicago area shot and killed his son execution style for molesting his fsther’s step daughter. The second he confessed at gunpoint he blew his head off and then turned himself in.
      Law enforcement can only do what they are told to do by the General Assembly and the courts ok. So if the General Assembly passed a law and the courts upheld it, that said you must wear a pink shirt every Tuesday or go to jail, they would have to arrest you if you didn’t do what was directed.
      I agree 100% that in a election year, no one is going to vote no on 1952. As Robert said, that is just the political reality. Remember the population of Pa is over 12 million. The population of the sex offender community is like 22,000.
      Once upon a time it was actually legal where my mother came from to beat the crap out of blacks. It wasn’t just they wouldn’t arrest you, it was the actual law that it was ok. It was the exception to the assault statute. Think about that. Look how far we have come as a society.
      Thoughts?

  • #34043 Reply

    Brian

    Ok I just got off the phone again with psp, I called a little late , I got a different person at 3:20pm at the ml section 800 number, I think it may have been an actual officer this time, she said she doesn’t see that anyone is reviewing my file now, she also said wait a couple weeks you guys may be getting a letter saying if your coming off / eligibility or you have to continue registering, totally different from what the other lady said, she also said she doesn’t know anything different is going on for out of state offenders, I asked if I should send a letter, she said it probably won’t make any difference but you can if you want to so just to get a solid answer on what’s going on I will send a q&a letter to see if someone can give me official information, there are a few on NARSOL I can see know what’s going on but can’t give solid 100% info that one has to get directly from the source, hell I wander if I just go to a psp barracks they will tell me, probably not, I’m guessing they have no idea either.

  • #34057 Reply

    Tod

    Simple or maybe not so simple, but are there ANY OTHER STATES BESIDES PA being heard, scheduled, failed, etc. the same case? One state can help, but I would think others are following and filing similar cases in other states. It would be nice to know that, where they are and how to follow them. There was nothing mentioned (did not stay the whole 3 hours on tues) about the case in appeals in the 10th circuit on Judge Matsch’s ruling. You would think this case can have a pretty big impact on what the 10th decides – Matsch, 6th circuit and now PASC (and I think some other state supreme courts) have all ruled similarly. Maybe if the 10th upholds Matsch, it will finally be heard by SCOTUS and they kill the registry, at least ex post facto for everyone! Happy for those in PA, but hoping it spreads everywhere! I hope people reply and update us outside of PA

    • #34132 Reply

      Chuck

      Tod,
      State v Willams in Ohio Supreme Court and Snyder v Doe in the U.S. Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals. Both found the current version of the registry was appilied retroactively to registrants that were on the registry before the current version was passed.
      There were s couple more but those were losers for our side.

    • #34131 Reply

      Chuck

      Todd
      Judge Matsch’s ruling came from an as appilied challenge. This means his ruling only affected the 3 offenders who actually sued.
      Michigan just had their registry declared ex post facto in Snyder v Doe. Just google “Michigan Snyder v Doe” for the decision. When it was appealed to SCORUS (U.S. Supreme Court) they denied to hear the case.
      In Ohio, the Ohio State Supreme Court just held in State v Williams 2011 that their registry was appilied ex post facto.

      It is important to remember that ex post facto does not mean there is no more registry. Just no more registry for those sentence before the new law went into affect. The old law still stands for those who offended after it was passed.

  • #34080 Reply

    Guillermo

    I do not know who you are talking about, but do know about what you are talking about Paul. I heard that as well on the conference. And by the way, the person did not intend to scam anyone. If you heard correctly as I heard. the person asked if he could have the gift card if no one claimed it or wanted it. This mind you, was after he had been asked if he was the person that had won calling from a different number and he said no. He could have said “yes it was me” even if caught about it later. But instead, the person was honest! A rarity in today’s society if you ask some people’s opinion around. Also FYI, the person sounded Latino or Indian (no disrespect to any culture intended). Just because I choose a Latino or Indian name to post does not mean I am Latino or Indian. It is just a name! And regardless of names in real life, Latinos, Indians or people are not all the same (for good or bad) -Fact- …as you may know and hopefully respect.
    About the $1000 a day compensation the caller asked about was a legitimate question and one that I was hoping to ask myself in a different way, but was beaten to it. I hope you do not make a living of mocking people. It not healthy in my opinion.

    • #34088 Reply

      Paul

      As I hope you do not make a living on justifying greedy people. Plain and simple it was a blatant un cloth thing to do because a cultural trait that made him oblivious to how rude it was My option matters too boo hoo

  • #34110 Reply

    RobinAdmin

    Okay, folks. This conversation has gone on just about long enough. At this point, it appears to have descended into a tit-for-tat among partisans who, for whatever reason, have decided to take issue with this or that about another person’s post. We are NOT forum operators. We are all volunteers and we cannot continue to keep up with the volume of disputation on this single post. I have deleted a number of posts this evening because it was obvious that something got said by someone that led to an offense against another. We DO NOT have time to police your comments at that rate. We have no paid staff and each of us here at NARSOL are carrying loads in other areas that you can’t even begin to imagine.

    So, here’s the deal. Either get this thread under control, or it will be shut down.

    • #34128 Reply

      Chuck

      Hi Robin,
      Thank you for standing up for equality. We are truly stronger united. I hope we will not have similar disruptions.

  • #34115 Reply

    Joe

    Just fyi, the PARSOL website has forums that may be easier to have discussions like this on. Just my opinion.
    http://www.parsol.org/forum/

    • #34122 Reply

      Paul

      Looks like they control the subject can’t start a new one would be the same situation we have here

      • #34127 Reply

        Joe

        You can add topics.

        • #34436 Reply

          Kendal

          You can do that here too, look at the top at Forum. I haven’t looked at it recently, but it should work

  • #34117 Reply

    Cary

    Robin, that solves the problem. Im in no rude to anyone. I just say i dont know what im talking about according to paul and yes it is a play fun and yes, he is right i really dont know what im talking about most of the time. Im just as lost as everyone else is on here. 1 day to the next things change and psp say diffrent things and new info becomes frequenting into other things. But, the fact is yes, you all have to understand that we are only human and make silly comments here and there and yes, it can be a bit frusterating at times. Yes, we all have diffrent personalities and yes, any thing that offended anyone by anything needs not to be taking into heart. No need to go back and forth on silly things to hurt anyone. Yes. I do take paul as a fun play and i tease him back. But we both know its only play. Nothing to be taking to a bad road. I do respect paul and yes, he is very smart and knowledgeable and he is a great person who i just happen to grow liking unto him. But, if paul had ever told me or i told him that its just rude than apologies accepted. But, yes, i admit i dont know what im talking about and im only guessing things most of the time and i dont mind that cause we are all learning new and diffrent things. Its being human.

    • #34121 Reply

      Paul

      Cary I respect that and its starting to look like you maybe right if we take the majority of what the ML section people are saying once we get real conformation some people that have done nothing to be removed have been removed and we see some bigger numbers come off ill concede lol I’m giving it another week to see what happens. I think we will be ok with 90days to respond if need be the DAs are not fighting any challenges so a writ will not take long in the trial court and if the da doesn’t challenge it it will go fast.

      • #34152 Reply

        Chuck

        Paul,
        I found out this morning the very first person to be removed did not go to court. Not the second person,but the very first person.

        Fear can play tricks on the mind. Fear can make you believe it is ok to violate the rights of a group becuase you don’t your child to be raped, or you don’t want to lose your job. Fear can also make someone afraid or jealous of someone else who they feel has had a easier life becuase they know how to “work the system” or were born somewhere else.

        After all, PSP is a law enforcement agency. Like it or not, they will enforce the law. It might take forever, and they might wait years until all the appeals have run out, but they will enforce the law.
        Down South, my grandparents REFUSED to allow black peole to walk in the front door of their store. They just believed that they were inferior to whites so therefore had to use the back door. Even after they were ordered to stop they refused. Finally, My Uncle took over the store and stoped the policy. This was in 1990. I was 10. Today, we do not believe that. At least the supermajority of us do not. My point being eventually we as sex offenders will be treated fairly. After all, whether we are white or black, we are all sex offenders. We are all the same.

  • #34135 Reply

    Saddles

    Actually Robin is right and so are the other administers… I myself wondered why there were all these many posts to start with and I joined also and I’m not even from PA. I believe its fighting over spilt milk. Its basically one does their time it should be all done with. You are rehabilitated.
    This whole sex offender thing is a lot of hub bub if you think about it. I just wonder who produces all those porn films out in wherever and is all this site for mature audiences to learn about government and its wrongs.

  • #34172 Reply

    Chuck

    why did they combine HB1952 with another bill? Is that their way of passing it but allowing the Courts to strike it down for violating the single subject rule? If so, that is a pretty cool way of passing it but not passing it. They get the credit for passing it, and they can say “What can we do? The Courts struck it down?”

    They tried the “oh its a crime bill” explanation with Megan’s Law 3 and the Pa Supreme Court didn’t buy it. Everyone call your Senator and tell them to PASS this bill, so we can sue the **** out of them in Court. I am now a “Yes” on HB 1952.

  • #34194 Reply

    Brian

    @Chuck
    Was it that 631 bill for oos svp’s, your guess is as good as mine, I decided not to post a lot today as there was some things going on on this thread, anyway just impatiently waiting it out for now. Being an oss they stated in the call that oss are priority I believe but I wander how many oos SO’s there are in pa, any way of to find that out I wander.

  • #34202 Reply

    Sean
    • #34209 Reply

      Joe

      That news article is the best news Ive heard all week, just read what Mr Marcus said. This bill is going to finish off Magans Law. Just give it time.

      • #34223 Reply

        Chuck

        Exactly Joe,
        It is going to suck for the next 4-6 years, but this will kill the registry in Pa. PLEASE PASS THIS BILL. It will kill you once and for all.

  • #34203 Reply

    Joe

    Honestly I don’t think they even believe this law is going to stay on the books, they know that this law is going to be found unconstitutional just like the last one. They are only passing it because they don’t want to look soft on SO and its an election year. But let them pass it because every time it gets shot down it will be closer to no law, and they are on thin ice because of Muniz. A lot is being ignored in this new law, and it give everyone ways to appeal.

    • #34224 Reply

      Chuck

      Joe,
      I think you are right. They are passing this bill with the intent of allowing it to be struck down. So they can say “What do you want us to do? The courts struck it down!!!

  • #34210 Reply

    Saddles

    This will be my last comment on NARSOL for a very good while as I shouldn’t have even crossed over the line and commented on PA laws in the first place much less try and use some biblical values in all this.
    Even Robin can see some of these comments where getting out of hand in a lot of ways. Its as if man is trying to justify man and his or her actions in this Public Safety thing. Sure I commented about bondage and sure when one’s probation and time is up, whether incarcraced or not that should be the end of the matter.
    Seems like big brother is duping all in all this endeavor. Are we not all for one and one for all or should we let others just fend for themselves. I really doubt that is what NARSOL was created for. So forgive me for crossing the line and using some christian golden rules in all this sex endeavor as I doubt I’m a day dream believer as the beatles said once.

  • #34207 Reply

    Sean

    SEE WHAT THEY DID….SNUCK IT RIGHT IN It now awaits the governor’s signature.
    “I think the result is a good piece of legislation,” Mr. Vulakovich said Wednesday. “It tries to address the concerns raised by the state Supreme Court on the issue.”
    It was important to move with speed on the legislation, he said, which is why he didn’t want to wait for the original bill to wend its way through committee.
    “We felt comfortable with it, and we wanted to act and get it done so state police would have some direction as to what to do,” he said. “The main concern is public safety — to protect the kids, protect the victims.” can you believe this statement??? lets just hurry up an pass any old thing, who cares if its right, we’ll figure it out later mentality.

    • #34226 Reply

      Chuck

      Sean,
      This is EXACTLY what we wanted. This bill/law will be struck down by the Courts. Every sex offender should be celebrating this bill being passed. The next 4-6 years is going to stink, but I rather 4-6 years as opposed to life for some.

  • #34229 Reply

    Adam

    Is there a place I can listen to the recording of this past weeks conference call?

    • #34247 Reply

      Chuck

      Adam
      I have heard some people say that they listened to the call the next day on a recording. However, it was not in the normal place where they put the recordings.
      MAYBE THE MODS COULD CHIME IN.

    • #34254 Reply

      RobinAdmin

      The audio file is still with tech being edited. Probably available by Monday. You can check here to see when the page is updated with the most recent NARSOL in action: https://narsol.org/media/webinars/narsol-in-action/

      • #34262 Reply

        Chuck

        I hope they can reduce the background noises and enhance the call clarity.

      • #34273 Reply

        Adam

        Thank you for the information, Robin!

  • #34227 Reply

    Chuck

    I am SO HAPPY. They did NOT learn their lesson from Commonwealth v Neiman. I feel like dancing naked in the streets!!!!

    • #34278 Reply

      Jim B

      Hi chuck what does this mean ?

      • #34313 Reply

        Chuck

        Hi Jim,
        Article 1 Sextion 1 of the Pa Constitution states that they cannot out two different subject in one bill. This is to prevent log rolling. For example let’s say Bill A is about tasing the minimum wage. Bill B is about raising taxes. Now no one wants to vote yes in raising taxes. So they combine Bill B with Bill A and title it Rsising the minimum wage Act. It passes becuase everyone likes raising the minimum wage for their people. This is log rolling. They can’t do that and they just did by adding HB1952 with the senate bill.
        This is why Megans Law 3 was found to be unconstitutional. They log rolled it with 2 other subjects. They tried to say “Oh all the subject are about crime, so it is only one subject. The Pa Supreme Court rejected their argument in Commonwealth v Neiman in 2013. So since 2013 there has been no registry for Pre Sorna people who have finished their time. However, we had to wait for Muniz so the courts could tell PA they couldn’t use Sorna as they thought they could.

        • #34334 Reply

          Brian

          @Chuck
          Yeah now they are all retiring so they can’t be called out on it, I think the reason for HB1952 was to tie up pre SORNA people not done their 10years yet to inconvenience them for a few more years and make people pay to try and get off. They are probably other ulterior motives involved also I’m sure.

        • #34331 Reply

          Jim B

          Hi Chuck I kind of figured that But I think your stretching a little too far saying this violates the SSL because its more than obvious they both are dealing with SO issues, I think you better keep your cloths on and out of the street on this one lol. Wow

  • #34220 Reply

    Tom

    Yet it appears the total count of registrants is lower. Not a lot but lower. At the rate of 50 per week, it will take 18 months to take off 4000 people