- This topic has 1 reply, 2 voices, and was last updated 1 month, 1 week ago by Fred.
December 7, 2019 at 11:27 am #66226
From our Michigan affiliate: It appears we are in for more waiting. The state of Michigan is not working as fast or in the direction we had hoped. Bec
[See the full post at: When will Michigan do the right thing?]
December 7, 2019 at 12:57 pm #66229
The most acute question is: What is being protected the citizen or the state’s machine database”s use(s). Granting the States(50) the civil designation of plain 13th indenture has broad collateral implications for federal use with respect to impinging upon individual liberty. If no liberty at stake, who would complain? Stevens..
If you can justify the tacit electronic monitoring of one set of citizens by States then a federal can go further as they are more powerful? “I would think the US government can be free do anything they want with a database.” Scalia. ( Defending the liberty of U.S. Government & follow will of the people)
I tend to agree save the constitutional prohibition and human subservience aspect. We are a re:public after all & not a re:machina.
IMO Michigan is stuck hard up against the electronic domestic surveillance saints and their desire to maintain the status quo [Null in programmer’s parlance].
December 7, 2019 at 12:57 pm #66228
The courts cannot force the legislators to legislate. You’re dealing with career politicians who are NOT about to commit political suicide by going back to the drawing table to align their sex offender registry with what current empirical research reflects. The legislators are going to force the court to step in and declare the law unconstitutional. That way when the law or any part is struck down the politicians can go to the voters and say, “It wasn’t us. The courts did this.” To be bluntly honest, I don’t see the courts as being in any big hurry to fix this problem either. In August 2016 the 6th Circuit ruled. The U.S. Supreme Court denied certiorari in October 2017. No action on the part of legislators to fix the law. The ACLU filed suit in attempt to force the state to reflect the 6th Circuit’s ruling in July 2018. The Michigan Supreme Court has since issued 2 deadlines, both of which have been allowed to expire without any action on the part of the state. Finally, the ACLU’s 2018 lawsuit is going to move forward. To my knowledge the MI Supreme Court has not ruled as to whether or not severability applies to the MI S.O.R. If the court should rule that severability applies, the court will just invalidate the 2009 and 2011 amendments and the state’s registry will revert back to what it was prior to those amendments. If severability does not apply and the whole law is declared unconstitutional, the state will not give up! Look to PA to see what MI will do. Their S.O.R. was declared unconstitutional. The state passed SORNA 2 and now it’s in court and facing the very same problems as the SORNA scheme that was just overturned. Everyone needs to realize that the legislators are NOT going to just throw their hands up and say, “Oh, well! No registry now. We tried.” They will draft another law, pass it, and the whole process will start all over again. The state will do all it can to keep the laws as restrictive and debilitating as they possibly can. I hate to be a naysayer, but as a wise man once said. “This is how it is-be; not how it should be.”
December 7, 2019 at 7:36 pm #66242
Yes that aspect is in play, unpopularity is one thing but not the main thing. Ds&Rs routinely adopt policy proposals unstomachable to the other. It’s an inherent product of party extreme. Forcing by law, human subservient disposition to database machine property upkeep is extreme, tho it sounds harmless. In accordance each would suffer similarly should the acquiesce to the courts demands. Thereby logic and Occam’s’ razor demands unpopularity really isn’t the issue. Conflict resolution academia demonstrates accurately the delay here. The real crux of the issue isn’t in the public consciousness. It’s not about the man but the machine, and it’s .gov uss, as SOR etc. I emphasise the ” etc. ” here…….really! Just being civil and all.
December 7, 2019 at 8:39 pm #66245
No Politician, Judge, or DA want to be the one to make the headlines where something they did has a registered citizen commit something heinous. I had a DA one day this week tell my attorney “as long as he isn’t working with kids I’ll agree to signing a waiver for him to work there. The next day they’re wanting us to show that this would be a benefit to me which it would be. It’s like we have to get our parents approval to do anything.
December 8, 2019 at 2:26 pm #66276
So, basically nothing is being done, everything the ACLU has done for us is is an was a waste of time. It sounds like those if us who are 50/and older, I just going to end up dying on the registry , before any type of progress is made, even though we already one multiple times in court. Nessel already agreed that the registry is unconstitutional and punishment, so Nessel and Whitmer need to get together an shut the registry down, until the Michigan Legislature gets off their asses and fixes the registry. The State also needs to be charged $1,000 a day per registrant until they remove every registrant that is eligible for removal due to the 2006 and 2011 amendments being found unconstitutional and punishment. This crap has gone on long enough time to start making the State of Michigan pay up money wise to every eligible registrant. It’s time we stop playing games.
December 8, 2019 at 4:55 pm #66285
I’ll take “Things that will NEVER happen” for $1000, Alex
December 9, 2019 at 10:09 am #66322
I tend to agree that registrants themselves could be doing more. Given that most are not reflects certain characteristics about the repressed. While I must admit I’m not a member of NARSOL I’ve posted many times concerning the limitations involved with running to the federal courts. Their power is limited to mandamus. Courts may not make law, nor is there a mechanism in place to enforce rulings. America rules the people by consent of the people no matter how inept or corrupt the consented are.
I’ve no doubt every Michigan ex post registrant could be defending themselves in circuit courts in FTR indictment. Giving that they, FTR DEFENDANTS could call public officials as witnesses in their defense. Prosecutors would be defenseless from the testimony of the ruling judge. What says a sex offender can’t call judges as witnesses to material evidence they themselves signed- Judgements!
There are very good reasons why the founders established, public trial, subpoena powers for those under felony indictment. For times just like this when the normal\ typical standard operating procedures have been chucked.
The virtue signaling rendered via the Doe03 decisions took us from a nation which prohibited the use of ex post facto law on crime, to a nation which regularly imposes them every new legislative , just like King George did.
Similarly our immigration policy is promulgated as rule by fiat- depending upon the sole discretion of the President in power. We are currently a republic of just two party states and not 50 separate states.
December 9, 2019 at 10:09 am #66323
I understand peoples frustration with this process. And the ACLU is also frustrated. But by no means does this mean that it was all for nothing! We could sit back and do nothing and nothing would happen, but we are not giving up and I hope our Michigan Registered Citizens will write letters to all State Elected Officals. The Court does not write laws and this is not what we are asking them to do. We need to get back to the table and get this done and the State needs to stop fighting. But in truth the State will not give up, but we are just as determained. The ACLU is not going to just walk away from this. WE MUST KEEP FIGHTING AND WE MUST COME AWAY WITH CHANGES THAT ARE MEANINGFUL. Tim P
December 9, 2019 at 3:43 pm #66336
Disgusted in Michigan
The Legislature hasn’t moved forward as quickly as hoped? How about hasn’t moved at all. I would have been off the registry almost 2 years ago had it not been for the life sentence handed to me in the mail in 2011.
I am so sick of these BS restrictions on my life. I’ll go on a letter writing campaign although I know it won’t do any good.
December 10, 2019 at 11:53 am #66350
So what you are saying is, the courts can’t make the legislature change the law, but a marginalized group of registrants can by simple writing letters? Wow! Why didn’t we think of that before and saved a millions of dollars fighting the laws. All we had to do was write letters. I’ll be!
December 10, 2019 at 6:56 pm #66363
It would seem that every state is a bit unethical in all this sex registry ordeals. Monthly home monitoring, now instead of a PO comming to the house for a monthly visit or check one will have to go to the PO. office once a month if one is on probation. One doesn’t see the rhyme or reason in much of this punishment inducment ordeal.
A lot of much of this sex registry amounts to online prostitution by authorities striving to make one believe they are talking to a teenager and they are the one’s that induce one with this evil scheme with this ” come on over to my house” in this online game that is so demeaning, and wicked for any true authority to induce on an adult chat site. Who is taking advangage of who in this pretend. Once they snag you if there is sanything on one’s computer than that is another charge. They have the plan but it all starts with the computer texting. or talking to one on the phone. While I am not associated with NARSOL I do send a bit of donations to NARSOL and yes NARSOL is in their fighting for truth and liberty for all in this web of deceit that many of us go thru at times. All of this is evil on the part of those in authority.
While authorities can call this public safety or internet safety who is inducing the net to induce one. its still demeaning any way one looks at it. Is this a one time Charlie punishment or labeled for life as sexually violent. One wonders how many speeding tickets before you are labeled or lose one’s license. This is human justice or a slavery type ordeal. Sure I thought we had a Christian/civil government but when authorities go above their power either in courts or authorities playing the prostitute on line to induce one than someone needs to speak up.
To many people going to jail and being punished for life and being labeled in all this typeordeal. Truth is truth no matter how you slice it but forgiveness is bless.e
December 10, 2019 at 9:36 pm #66366
MI Court to MI Legislators: “Hey, you guys came up with anything yet?”
MI Legislators to MI Court: “Nah, nothing yet.”
MI Court to MI Legislators: “Business as usual then right? Carry on…carry on.”
December 10, 2019 at 9:36 pm #66367
Hello, everyone I ran across this tonight and thought I would share it, not sure what it means exactly, but here it is anyway, maybe @Fred or some one else can tell us what it means, **link removed
December 10, 2019 at 9:38 pm #66371
The court is giving Betts an extra two weeks to submit an additional brief.
December 11, 2019 at 10:28 am #66375
How the hell can they ignore a federal court judge & continue applying a unconstitutional law too citizens ????? The system is a joke. The problem here is the word we are still trying to “Negotiate” There should be None of that ! I never in my life heard of negotiation after a court ruling . This is stupid let them fix the unconditional parts of the registry first . We have suffered enough ! This negotiation is doing nothing but stalling this whole thing for us who have suffered enough . Rule ! Then write a Order ! All this negotiation is B.S.
December 11, 2019 at 10:42 am #66377
Years & years have gone by as many of us are punished dearly and are being punished even years and years after a conviction retroactively from these unconstitutional laws applied retroactively to thousands of us , this has to end… negotiations ?? Really we been hearing that same b.s for years . Rule already !
December 11, 2019 at 9:45 pm #66390
When will Michigan do it right Well the question is when will man do it right? Yes this is a two way street in a lot of this internet type of intimidation. Did not anyone learn anything about compassion that the Rev. talked about in his article. Were we all intimidated including myself plus many more of you all on here.
Sure I wonder after my 3 yrs. of probation is up if they are gonna say well we are making it life as your punishment. Courts don’t seem to forgive and forget or does love cover a multitude of sins. While we can all sound off about this sex registry actions speak louder than words as someone said on here. Sure I have gotten brow beaten on here by even talking about any form of the bible on here and those know who they are.
Sure man wants to do justice even if its playing this prostitution game via this internet. so who’s rightor should we all speak up with more compassion in all this sex registry hocus pocus I snagged you with your filthy words. Sure government is out of control or where is ethics today in even police force today inthis witch hunt or is someone missing something in the bible to correct one’s error If Narsol doesn’twant to post this comment that’s up to them but we all have a right to speak out in a positive way and stand up for all mixed up in this internet web of deceit.
December 12, 2019 at 7:42 am #66396
You know all this internet ordeal seems wrong. I’m sure one would like to actually know if that is actually the case of grown men actually meeting teens on adult chat sites. Who actually has their way with them. Common sense says that adult men don’t go to kid’s site’s. Sure its been said on here that usually sex is commited by someone that is family member or know’s the victim but who know’s who thru an internet device.
Sure statistics can say or influence others by whatever they want, but are their more black men caught up on the internet than white’s or hispanic’s or any other group. Are family members more prone to sexually abuse family members or does the internet actually save or is all this food for thought in this type of prevention that actually doesn’t save anyone. Sure you all say writting letters are good. Well do it until they ot someone listen.
A safety measure is a safety measure but who is stepping out of line in all this government mess. If they are doing all this for prevention they themselves are over reacting in a lot of this mess to label one and have one go thru this court system and all this worry.
December 12, 2019 at 2:52 pm #66409
I didn’t think this was about writing a new law,
I thought it was about enforcing the laws already on the books,,,,,,,( the Constitution )…..
Ex post facto, due process, ?
Any thoughts about this?
January 2, 2020 at 2:11 pm #66843
Dr while a lot of this internet stuff is totally wrong one has to say who is enticing who in say some type of an adult setting. While understanding about adults going to a teenage site has its downfalls and we all have responsiblities who is instilling this injustice for their vain glory.
One wonders who is the beast within or leading one astray. While we can all be out of line say in an adult type setting vs a teenage setting who sets one up for a fall. While principals play a lot in this sex registry ordeal who is responsible for these actions. I’m sure the main point of many of these internet sex stings is to induce and get one to come down to meet at their level. That is as devilish as one can get in any American government via this internet device.One would hope this is still a Christian Nation. Greed show’s its face in many different ways and many have fallen with this internet sex scheme that needs to be challenged and eradicated in a lot of ways.
January 4, 2020 at 11:06 pm #66894
I have watched it all play out, I have written letter to state and federal law makers, also to various other state entities. I even came up with a possible answer to what seams as a impossible question. All I received as a response is that its not our dept or thank you….I will pass it on to the proper person. With the “wins” in court I seen a bit of light at the end of that looooonnnnng tunnel. But as usual if was just a firefly passing by. So I guess the point I am getting at is writing letters had gotten me nowhere and fast. Thank you Narsol and ACLU but like others has said…they will be dragging their feet because the courts have no way to “make” them change the law.