- This topic has 23 replies, 2 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 9 months ago by Tim Lawver.
June 2, 2018 at 4:58 pm #41383
https://narsol.org/av/interviews/vanderwall-interview-6-1-18.mp3 Robin was the guest on “Truth to Power,” a talk radio program out of Reno on J
[See the full post at: NARSOLs Robin Vander Wall discusses the registry with Nevada radio host]
June 2, 2018 at 7:18 pm #41385
Robin, fantastic job! I only can continue to pray for light at the end of this dark and terrible tunnel called the registry. I have spoken with State troopers, probation officers and compliance officers who agree that the registry is not cost effective and serves no real purpose. It will only continue to grow and take more manpower, and money to deal with it.
June 3, 2018 at 12:47 am #41402
Robin Vander WallAdmin
Thank you, brother! I certainly consider your praise among the most esteemed I could receive. We’re going to keep swinging at it. Damn thing will fall down eventually.
June 2, 2018 at 9:00 pm #41388
Jeremy from Indiana
I just want to make one correction to Mr. Vander Wall’s statement concerning research prior to McKune v. Lile. There was actually a lot of research that showed lower recidivism rates among those offenses now classified as sex offenses. There was an article in the New York Times in the 1940s that shows this to be true. There were also multiple studies that revealed statistics on certain crimes and the US Bureau of Justice has been tracking statistics for quite a long time. To say that there was no research prior to a 2002 decision is just not correct.
June 3, 2018 at 12:55 am #41403
Robin Vander WallAdmin
Thank you, Jeremy. If I have a future opportunity to speak to the issue, I think I will say “accepted” data. While a study from the 1940’s might have demonstrated important support, the Court was clearly looking for something more recent. Plus, in the 1940’s, however accurate the sampling may have been, statistics as a tool for scientific analysis was still in its infancy. Statistics wasn’t even widely taught in the United States until mid-century, and when it first rolled out in the 1920’s (I think it was first offered as a degree at NC State, actually), it was considered a sort of voodoo science. And I did not say there was “no” research. I said there was not a lot of research. And that’s an accurate statement.
June 2, 2018 at 10:28 pm #41394
I would have said that 16 is a fine age of consent simply because we trust a 16 yr old to operate a motor vehicle so why can’t they also choose their romantic partner?
June 3, 2018 at 12:57 am #41404
Robin Vander WallAdmin
haha I have absolutely no doubt you would have said that! But I ain’t touching that subject. You can lead the way!
June 3, 2018 at 7:01 am #41411
It’s not about touching a subject of what is a child ! Wrong is wrong ! and if we believe in punishing all sex offenses, we need to establish true, legitimate reality not a variety of opinions and theories but true adulthood STARTS at puberty, it does not matter if we like it or not the facts of life reveal/state that Accountability is in order at that time line …..Not what we would like it to be ! Is it acceptable knowing and a bedding teen sex and pregnancy, well, if that’s true ! And valid ! we need to register those females and males ! Plenty of those females underage are clearly aware of sexuality and are accountable, regardless of the law turning the other cheek to suits its own fancy ! My point to all of this is to show ….THE PATH THE LAW HAS CHOSEN TO GO DOWN (sex offender registries) is foolish, because it tangles with natural human sexual and other behaviors and demonizes human sexuality at all stages of life ! Why because everyone is not at the same level of maturity and experience, plus opportunities for growth! What’s wrong with this legally, ethically and morally ! Just ask any sociologist, psychologist and other professionals and a truthful answer will tell an abundance of why Governments in private lives is a paradox to Law crossings lines of Civil and Constitutional rights ! IT SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN ALLOWED ! IT DESTROYS LIVES AND IS MISS GUIDED JUSTICE !
June 3, 2018 at 10:34 am #41422
This is my opinion of the “natural order of things” in our current times and generation;
People have pushed aside the idea of anything “natural”. They think it’s unnatrual to find attractions to youthful human beings, yet each and every one of these hypocrites finds attraction to youthful human beings. (I’m not referring to small children, I’m referring to post pubescent teens and young adults).
I’ll give you an example – in my personal opinion, the most beautiful MAN that ever existed is Styx guitarist Tommy Shaw. I’ve been attracted to him since I was around age 6 or 7 and he had just joined the popular rock back at age 21. He’s now in his 60’s and still looks A-MAZING. But….as I am a member of Styx fan groups online, I see women 10 to 15 yrs OLDER than me still talking about and drooling over his 1970’s pics when he was in his early 20’s and considered a “baby” in the way in which we refer to the 20somethings these days. So in these Styx fan groups we have the closet “cougars” who would say a 20 yr old is a “baby” but, behind closed doors would most likely take the opportunity to be with said “baby”.
Our society is in major DENIAL of Natural human actions, thoughts and feelings. We are literally expected to live our lives as if we are ROBOTS.
This is why it angers me to see people being so apologetic when they’re caught up in a CONSENSUAL relationship with a 16/17 yr old if their state’s law is 18. Because, had they simply been in a different state, it would not have been a crime and no apology would be needed.
Now then, for those who are religious and believe in “god”, please read your bibles from cover to cover, not just the popular phrases/passages.
Women, for starters, were 2nd class at best in the days these stories were written. And they were ALWAYS MUCH YOUNGER than the men they were wives to.
It has been estimated by scholars that Mary was between 13-15 yrs of age when she was pregnant with Jesus. People who swear that the Bible is historical fact and that there IS a god, live by this book and yet do everything opposite of what it’s apparently “teaching” us or what it’s promoting as being “acceptable”. So when people condemn us in the name of “god” and tell us that “god” will get his revenge for us “hurting” a child (post pubescent teen) I ask them why they accept “god” impregnating a teenage girl and how, exactly, would “he” would find it appalling that I was attracted to a teenage girl?
I remember being 16, and therefore I say that if I can be trusted to not drive a car into a crowd of people at age 16, then I should also be trusted to decide that I wanted to have sex with someone like Farrah Fawcet if I felt an attraction to someone like her at that age (and I did lol).
When my generation was growing up, teenage BOYS were in fact attracted to older celebrity women. Now-a-days, when a very good looking older woman comes into my job and I turn to one of my 20something male coworkers and say “Wow! That woman is gorgeous” they reply “She’s old enough to be my mom”, 🤦🏻♂️ (Face palm moment). She’s not your mom, you’re both adults and you have to be blind as a bat to not see that she looks amazing for her age (whatever her age may be). This is the generation that is afraid of its own shadow thanks to its OBSESSION with sex crime stories on TV shows and news media.
Also, on this same note, young pubescent GIRLS are always attracted to those “boy band” guys who are almost always above the drinking age.
But of course, the AVERAGE older guy is “creepy” because he’s not a celebrity. This is how we have trained ourselves and our kids in this generation.
The moms of these young girls who are 13-17 sit and smile and giggle at their daughters “puppy love” of these older men in pop bands. It’s mind boggling. Why aren’t the mothers saying “cut that out! He’s too old for you!”? Oh, maybe because many of these mothers were once the teenagers who were trying to get backstage to sleep with members of the rock band Kiss? Hmmm.
We are slowly but surely being turned into emotionless robots who are preprogrammed to only find attraction and love with similar robots.
Meanwhile, everyone who is young and a fan of Beyoncé (whose music I hear to death at my job) never takes into consideration that her husband, Jay-Z is 13 years OLDER than her and he met her when she was 19. Do the math.
But we will continue to live in denial that it’s a natural human thing to be attracted to YOUTH.
Men, moreso than women, because men look to a younger female as “fertile” for starting a family (for those who want to have kids, even if they don’t want to, the natural law of attraction to youth still applies).
I could go on but I’ve made this longer than I intended anyway. I do hope it gets published in these comments as I’ve seen even longer comments on other articles. Have a great day, all.
June 3, 2018 at 2:07 pm #41428
If we’re going to discuss “age of consent” let’s talk about when a person is psychologically and financially able to sign a contract.
Once personhood is (again) allowed by the state, younger people and their guardians will be freed to conduct their lives as they see fit.
June 3, 2018 at 7:55 pm #41440
Age of consent to what behavior exactly? At what age do we regulate masturbation? Arousal for younger males is breathing air. Early on, completely non-voluntarily. It is the denial itself that breeds deviance in the extreme! It does so by cultural definition OF lack thereof. It is therefore overly ambiguous by natural law. It (,the electronic list and its development) was more about the deepstate’s need for a ruling to establish the following formula with respect to individual liberty versus gov’t need for unfettered use to monitor the population as a whole! Ahhh Utah!
The people’s perceived need for a database > Need of citizen for community and privacy. We know the registry forms remove the right to remain silent to update the machine via proxy. IMHO it is a form of indentured and intended as punishment via affirmative restraint, (,Barring &Banning). Just wait until facial recognition kicks full in.
MACHINE NEED > HUMAN NEED ( FOR LIBERTY.)
Isaac Asimov recognised the error. Rehnquist, Scalia, O’Connor, & ,Thomas not so much. Kennedy tipped his hand in Robin’s state ruling.
June 5, 2018 at 3:15 am #41492
Age of consent is talked about often ! Let’s talk about age of accountability ! We need to see over punishment of males astounding, and societal issues pertaining particularly to men need to be faced and dealt with immediately ! A Police state ! Or Government sanctioned lives start with societies I’ll ! Men, especially need a new and bright legal Organization to support, defend and overcome new age sink holes and slick corrupt powers that establish life debilitating legal bondages! Let’s find the answers ! Look beyond the normal thoughs and structured legal systems ! Contemplate, what laws can we pass ! Other group’s, and victims legislation has what the want ! Why not our turn! If regulatory laws can be proven to be wrong ! Let’s think how its functionality can be exposed for errors when applied to real life , and how hindering effects are causes for dismissal of such laws and give alternatives, such as 5 or ten years counseling ! Not jail, probation, parole or registration ! Just as addicts need help so do habitual sex offenders not civil commitment, but real humanitarian answers, not more punishments ! Thanks for reading !
July 10, 2018 at 10:16 pm #43295
Great points, unfortunately men are not the group oriented types and when we do gather often devolves to the lowest common denominator. It’s exactly why we see no D.C. Protest as of yet!
Our young men have no formal ceremony to manhood, save the Jew. Without clear rules many are left to their own discovery. The denial of the necessity by our Victorian traditions does society a disservice. Abstinence as promoted by right is in no way actually achievable as young men are genetically programmed to seek with out analysis, where as young females start with analysis in selection.
Ultimately, the key to ending sexual victimization lies not in law but in healthy cultural intimacy, unfortunately intimacy & sexuality are often confused, especially in young males.
June 2, 2018 at 11:03 pm #41396
The registry will eventually break down under its own weight. The issue is what to do until that happens. We have to keep chipping away in the courts. Most importantly we need to educate the uninformed public about sex offenders and sex offenses. We need to raise the public’s awareness of the unconstitutional nature of the registry. Robin my friend you have done that in no small way with this interview.
June 3, 2018 at 12:57 am #41405
Robin Vander WallAdmin
Thank you, Ollin! 🙂
June 3, 2018 at 7:01 am #41409
Thank you for your contribution to this issue. Does policy makers have a glimpse idea of how the registry and the lack of education to society not only negatively impact the registrants, but their families?
June 3, 2018 at 10:34 am #41423
The policy makers/law makers don’t care how it impacts anyone.
Maybe it needs to happen to one of their kids that sends a nude photo to their friends via smartphones. Then we’ll see them get a taste of their own medicine.
June 3, 2018 at 7:01 am #41408
Robin your discussion on the Radio program was very informative but it was too much “thinking” involved in it. I would like you to open your wallet and pull out a dollar bill and look on the back of it. I believe it still says in God we Trust. Sometimes we all can’t trust our own government after all we are all human and we all make errors, but thats another saga.
Now we can all think about this dilemna and that, but its the actual intent of a person, and it doesn’t have to be the playing doctor via the computer with the opportunity. Now NARSOL is fighting a good cause. Sure I wish there wasn’t any sex registry and they say its for public safety. One could say don’t play with matches as one could have the intent to burn the house down.Now were is logic and reasoning in that? While you spoke a bit about Justice Kenedy and his judgement on the recidisivm rate, well everybody know’s each person has his or her own motive. A lot of this is for self pride and pride goeth before the fall and is boasting the common norm today for law enforcement and government or do they oppress those in these ordeals. No one can predict gun control and that is actually killing people so whats the answer. I guess once an alcoholic always an alcoholic or a con man or a thief. Where is true justice?
As I remember once on here you said you can’t even go to church. Sure its nice to go to church if thats what you want. Right now in this Sex offender ordeal that a lot on here are are facing and worried about are being frighten, scared, discriminated against somewhat, no fair housing, treated like outcast citizens, having to stay a certain dstance from schools or parks. So should we all think a bit more on other reasons to hold mankind accountable. Sure we all talk a good talk but if you don’t use biblical ethics or principals in the process than we all have thinking errors. Everybody has a thorn in the flesh, and if the courts and people want to condemn others that haven’t harmed or abused anyone than they are taking judgement in their own hands with a lot of this unjust laws.
I don’t like this sex offender registry one bit and for those young kids in their 20’s and 30’s or the younger kids getting wrapped up in all this its no good. Sure we are all gone stumble in life or make errors but is the one setting the opportunity just as guilty or where is the men’s rea to that intent. One cannot constitute a crime unless one has a victim. We could also talk about conspiracy. Remember giving opportunities are of the devil and government seems to be guliable in all of that.
June 3, 2018 at 9:59 am #41417
My husband is serving time now for going on line and downloading porn involving children, and taking a video of my granddaughter and her friend. He would erase everything that came in, but it didn’t erase it. He has ten months yet to serve. We own our home, we are in a gated HOA ruled home. Can they make us move?
June 3, 2018 at 9:59 am #41416
Please contact my husband and I at this email…..Narsol can make a huge impact in Michigan. My husband whom is now home … (His Case) Can help provide an opening to changes in Michigan. Please contact us.
June 3, 2018 at 2:07 pm #41427
We also have a case that could change it all .
First a warrant for 20 years while living overseas and informed properly according to how requested in the local police of LA . Not able to come back to USA as no right to a lawyer, nor defense. The crime was enganderment welfare of a child only . All other charges with sexual assault were dismissed . My husband was 22 years old the girl who accused him 16 ( daughter of a priest ) in NJ 1996 That was a crime added while he was in jail n 1994 for other reason ( stealing some documents)and as this crime was added out of the blue He was scared, young and without advice but the public defender to plea guilty for that charge, so he did.
Now overseas , if he comes back directly to jail as without the right of a lawyer LA states , warrant for 20 years., undocumented now overseas. What to do ? This is against human rights!!
June 4, 2018 at 12:21 pm #41467
Good interview! You mentioned that NARSOL’s strategy is to go after states that have “weak” laws. If i understand correctly, Megan’s Law and the Adam Walsh Act (SORNA) are federal guidelines that states are encouraged to follow using federal funds as incentive. There is no federal registry- each state has it’s own registration scheme. Right?
Like many people, I’ve wondered why not just try to repeal SORNA? If i understand correctly, the reason that isn’t happening is state registries have taken on a life of their own, with requirements/laws added beyond the SORNA guidelines. So even if SORNA was repealed, the state registries would still be in place.
Since it’s unlikey any state will abolish their registry (encouraging an influx of registered humans from other states) then how do we ever put an end to sex offense registries? Or do we just keep challenging laws and chip away here and there, until either registries collapse or become more “tolerable”?
I hope i’m not being dense…I re-listened to Registry Matters episode 19 where Larry addresses this question and i guess i’m still a little unclear about it…
June 5, 2018 at 12:54 am #41488
David you make a pretty good point but I still wonder who is the servant or who is being served. Robin made some good points in the interview with getting the word out about some of this sexual offender registry thing but who know’s the thoughts of man.
Now I couldn’t care less what Teir level is because when you start grading one might as well be grading barnyard animals. Their is only one true Justice and Robin even know’s that. Sure when we all got mixed up with this ordeal, weather physical or non physicial who’s hormones were running.? Sin is sin ok but if courts want to take it to a highter level who is trying to justify themself? Whether Robinr,Maestro, Jeremy SW even myself. No I can’t justify oneself. What it all boils down to is the plain truth. They say actions speak louder than words so who’s actions were on the giving or receiving end in a lot of this ordeal?
Sure courts will con someone into a plea deal or some lesser punishment time but who is given the equal rights when they stand in front of the judge in this type of kangeroo Court, with a lot of these sexting issues or a lot of these physical ordeals. Talk about those without sin casting the first stone, it just blow’s my mind what human’s will reason today. The intent has to be there, the victim has to be there or do courts play on the mind as those sheriff’s deputy'[s do in the internet sexting issues to sway one to their level. Are a lot of these encounters two wrongs don’t make a right or are we all just sex offenders that can’t control our hormones. Are the court systems playing judge and prosecutor without a jury with the intent to lighten your sentence. What sort of justice is that? America needs to know about these traps of government.
June 5, 2018 at 11:02 pm #41549
Many of the above comments, individually good in and of themselves, seem predicated that if you are on the registry, you must have assaulted a minor. Remember, many of those on the registry are there even though a minor was not involved.
I have posted on here often and have called attention to the a major weakness in the AWA and the way it has been applied. I seem to gain little traction because it doesn’t directly affect registries. However, it is still a key part of the law. If that part of that Act were to be found unconstitutional, it has the possibility of being a fatal blow to the Act as a whole. And moreover, the justifications used to continue this unconstitutional provision are identical to those supporting the IML. Kill this part of the AWA, and the IML has no legs to stand on.
Continually attacking the registries should eventually wear them down, but I believe we can attack it from a different angle that is highly vulnerable. Sneak in the backdoor so to speak. Registries are political fodder… and we are continually fighting a low winnability strategy. Time to hit them where they can be hurt. The AWA has provisions that effectively bar registrants (with offenses against minors) from marrying a person of their choice should they not be green card holders. This is a patent violation of constitutional basic rights and thus is punitive. As such, ex post facto provisions clearly apply and can be used to invalidate that provision of the Act. Unless there is a severability clause (which I was informed there is not), the entire Act can be brought down.
People think (wrongly) that the registry is needed for protection. I haven’t found one yet that thinks it is okay that a 20 year old questionable situation should allow the government to essentially separate a couple from an eight year old marriage… equating risk to a minor to a 65 year old woman. What risk? The government can’t define it either… but uses it to enforce a flawed regulation.