- This topic has 62 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 3 weeks, 1 day ago by nobody special.
February 20, 2020 at 9:04 am #68416
Robin Vander WallAdmin
A press release By Robin Expulsion of Ranchland Heights Baptist Church contrary to gospel Raleigh, North Carolina—The National Association for Rationa
[See the full post at: NARSOL condemns Southern Baptist Convention as un-Christian]
February 20, 2020 at 10:41 am #68425
This article that Robin has written should be interesting to all. I have to compliment him for bring this issue up in this forum. Sure I will post on this but look forward so the many comments it brings. I’m sure that it will bring so good to all that comment.
February 20, 2020 at 11:37 am #68430
I was kicked out of a Church of the Nazarene congregation back in 2013 after the new pastor, who began his term on that very day, found out from a nosy church member that I was on the registry in my state. He told me he would use money from the church’s benevolence fund to help pay for counseling for me, but said I had to look for another church.
Yeah, the churches are NOT of Christ. They are truly synagogues of Satan. They SAY they don’t want “imperfect” people, but, by God, if you’re a sex offender, you’re scum and don’t deserve God’s grace. There is definitely a “sliding scale of grace” in today’s “Christian” churches.
February 20, 2020 at 12:04 pm #68433
Its not just the Baptist Church. When I was on probation, I was told by a Presbyterian church that I was not welcome to attend there. What kind of Christian church says “Sinners not allowed”? I find it ironic that the states in the “Bible Belt” have the most draconian laws dealing with sex offenders. What bible are they reading? Which Jesus are they following? Certainly not the Jesus who freely associated with the outcasts of society.
February 20, 2020 at 12:04 pm #68432
Bear in mind that this is: The SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION. I remember exactly from the days of My Youth what THE SOUTHERN WAY OF LIFE, was really all about. JIM CROW LAWS! So here, is yet another example of how THE SOUTHERN WAY OF LIFE EVEN IN A SO-CALLED ‘BAPTIST CONVENTION’, is rearing it’s Ugly Head. Oh and by the way; I don’t read ANYWHERE IN SCRIPTURE, where The Lord Jesus talks about forgiving only some kind of Sins and NOT forgiving others. NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!
I Challenge ANY of The Southern Baptist Convention Leadership to read Matthew’s Gospel 18: 22. You see, We know that Seventy times Seven equals 490 Times. That’s NOT the idea that Jesus wanted to make known. What He DID want to make Clear is this: Believers are to Demonstrate MERCY ALL THE TIME, WITH NO TIME OR NUMERICAL LIMIT! Since THE SOUTHERN WAY OF LIFE in The Southern Baptist Convention Leadership, insist on their so-called Pious Ideas of ‘Justice’, then AT JUDGEMENT DAY, they’ll get exactly that. JUSTICE, GOD’S WAY! An Unforgiving Believer, truly is AN UNFORGIVEN BELIEVER!
They can’t have it Both Ways, no matter how they try to Justify It. None of that will wash with Almighty God, and they know it! So the only other reason to see this for what it truly is, lies with THE MEN, who are the supposed ‘Leadership’, of THE SOUTHERN WAY OF LIFE. NOT, The Convention as it should be. No, They’re all about JIM CROW ALL OVER AGAIN!!
If those Southern Baptist Convention Leaders REALLY KNEW THEIR BIBLE, they’d also know what The Apostle Paul says in Romans 2: 21-25! They’d Check their own Hearts and Minds and BEG FOR FORGIVENESS BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY DO THAT NO OTHER HUMAN BEING KNOWS ABOUT, BUT ONLY GOD KNOWS!!! God Deals with ALL SIN, not just a few kinds, ON HIS TERMS…NOT OURS!
And His Terms are ONLY THROUGH JESUS CHRIST! NOT THEM!!
Yeah, THE SOUTHERN WAY OF LIFE. Remember I told you first about it. There’s unfortunately more such Shameful Acts of THAT KIND OF CHURCH TO COME. Remember The Purge Movies. Congress JUST MIGHT DECIDE TO MAKE SUCH THINGS THE LAW!!
Watch…and Surely, PRAY THESE THINGS DON’T HAPPEN!!!!
February 20, 2020 at 12:17 pm #68436
This is where people need to realize that churches are a business. The SBC isn’t about Jesus or spreading his message. That is the product they sell. They are about making money and will eliminate any perceived threats to their business and potential to make more money.
February 20, 2020 at 2:26 pm #68443
SHAME SHAME SHAME on this church they are not following the scripture!
February 20, 2020 at 2:26 pm #68441
I don’t think I can say what I would like to say here but I know a thing or two about the “Baptist Bunch”, straight from a lovely women who was running for public office who tried to expose Pasters for the very thing they try to do to the folks that got caught. Young girls 11, 12, and up pregnant by anonymous males. Too afraid to expose the truth, huh? Just understand that this is such an UnGodly responce all the way around. I am not a church goer myself, but believe in Biblical principles, so form another Church. Remember there always has to be a Plan B.
February 20, 2020 at 3:35 pm #68448
I say to hell with all of these false prophets and hypocrites! This is one way to test a church!
February 20, 2020 at 4:10 pm #68452
Brother, I would add Matthew 25 to the SBC reading list, as well.
February 20, 2020 at 4:29 pm #68455
People can change & God does forgive.
However, as a registered citizen & a Christian, I agree with the Southern Baptist Convention.
Here is why:
Any man leading (pastor, overseer) a congregation must be above reproach.
1 Timothy 3:1-7
“An overseer, then, must be above reproach … Furthermore, he must have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the snare of the devil.”
Maybe this man could advocate, for registered citizens who are often denied, admittance to nursing homes & homeless shelters ? There are other Christian works to be done. Thank you.
February 20, 2020 at 4:51 pm #68457
So, the Baptist church wants to play Pharisee? They want to condemn those who do not fit their idea of Christian. Shame on them. Acting like Christ only died for the “acceptable sins” cheapens his sacrifice and death on the cross. Christ died for the social outcasts, the diseased, the hurting, the condemned.
I believe in my heart that a repentant sex offender will be first in line at the gates of heaven, before the judges and those who viewed their own sins as somehow less evil.
February 20, 2020 at 4:52 pm #68459
Robin Vander WallAdmin
RL- I certainly appreciate your perspective and your gracious approach. Paul’s instructions to Timothy are valid and considered. I think, however, his instructions must be taken in proper context. Being above reproach doesn’t necessarily mean being without a history of sin or even a criminal conviction. Paul was, himself, a murderer and his violence against the church before his conversion was widely known and self-confessed. So, unless Paul did not consider himself as either an apostle or planter of churches (churches to whom he was instructive in very much a pastoral way), then we have to believe that he is speaking about a leader’s present character rather than his former character or reputation. Let us also recall Peter’s retort to Christ when he was called as an apostle: “Depart from me. I am a sinful man, Oh Lord.” Noah was an imbiber. Moses fled to Midian after committing murder. King David was a rapist, a murderer, and an adulterer. Cain killed Abel but eventually settled his own city and had the special protection of God. God uses terribly flawed people for his most important work….sometimes, I believe, as spiritual leaders.
Baptist doctrine strictly adheres to the belief that the Holy Spirit guides a local and autonomous congregation of believers in the selection (calling) of a pastor. The purpose of our release–and indeed, the reason for our condemnation–is to question what spiritual force is actually guiding the decisions of the Executive Committee of the SBC. The same Holy Spirit? Is the Spirit divided against itself? This is a serious question to be considered.
February 20, 2020 at 7:18 pm #68463
My Baptist Church in Charlotte, NC withdrew from the SBC probably 20 years ago, circa 2000 or earlier. The SBC’s overly conservative leadership change in the mid 90’s and “the Bible is infallable” views, were a major part of the withdrawl from the SBC. When I went to prison for my crime in 2003 a chaplain told me that judges can’t forgive you but God has. I received love and support from my church when I returned that first Sunday in late April 2004, the day after my release. I remember walking toward one of my Sunday school teachers in the hallway and I reached out to shake his hand as I smiled. That smile disappeared as he shook his head NO but then held his arms out and embraced me instead. What a great feeling and a confirmation that God had forgiven me and so had my church. I’ve remained a member and attended St. John’s Baptist Church ever since. They welcome all…sinners included.
Good job Robin, in speaking on behalf of us all.
February 20, 2020 at 7:18 pm #68462
A “church” is just a building and a congregation is a group of like minded people. You need neither in order to be forgiven by God thru Jesus. As it states in the Bible, when two or more are gathered in my name, I will be there. Not sure which book but that has always stuck with me along with beware the false prophet.
February 20, 2020 at 7:18 pm #68461
I looked into this and due to the sex abuse “scandal” in churches, the new SBC policy is that a convicted sex offender can not be employed by a SBC church. I think it is to cover them from further lawsuits and show zero tolerance for sex abuse. No spiritual guidance needed if the policy is legally based to cover yourself from lawsuits and to appear to care for the abused above all else. SO conviction= no employment. Policy decision not a spiritual decision involving grace, repentance, forgiveness or redemption.
February 20, 2020 at 9:32 pm #68470
The Criminalized Man
Condemnation is the stock and trade of churches. They don’t get it from scripture. NARSOL is only fulfilling the words of the one who said “the measure you give will be the measure you get.”
February 20, 2020 at 9:32 pm #68471
My pastor, although he claims his church is nondenominational, is a Baptist through and through and he would have a field day with these hypocrites. He abhors the laws that govern registered citizens and is very vocal about it. When I came to him to tell him about the bill in TN to allow registered citizens to attend church with permission by the church leaders (btw there is no law preventing registered citizens to attend church unless it has a daycare) he smiled real big and said, “Good thing we are not a church.” He is very open about his checkered past-he drank, he smoked weed, he cussed, he was very racist, and he was not a nice person. Now he is one of the kindest and most compassionate men I have had the pleasure to have known since 2003. He heads a homeless shelter open to any male no matter their past. He preaches every Sunday and every now and then during the week. A few years ago he decided to start a church at the shelter that welcomes everyone because there were so many that judged and didn’t allow homeless and especially registered citizens. He has named it Grace Church, but as far as the government is concerned it is not a church but a homeless shelter. He has always been there for me through thick and thin, better or worse, through laughter and bitter tears. He knows my charge and the age of my victim and he does not judge me. He still is comfortable with me being around his kids and wife and the only reason I am not allowed at his house is because it is in a restricted area and he doesn’t want his nosy neighbors o my hateful parole officer and her more hateful supervisor getting into mine or his business. He is much-hated by Tennessee Department of Corrections because he has put them in their place too many times to count including banning a few of them from the mission’s property. He will not allow them inside the mission without a warrant and police escort and that is because he really doesn’t have a choice. He just recently was forced to start allowing them into the lobby when they do address checks.
I can here him now regarding these hypocrites . . . .
February 20, 2020 at 9:32 pm #68468
Thank you, Robin, for speaking out about the SBC’s unchristian decision and for responding to RL so biblically and graciously. I think many churches and Christians don’t really know the true gospel: that we all sinned, that Jesus came not to condemn us but to save us, and that His saving grace can permanently change us into model citizens and pillars in our communities. I love how He purposefully showed how power grace is by taking the most legalistic, zealous Christian murderer and turned him into the greatest apostle ever. Paul understood grace (unmerited favor) like no one else ever has. May we be ever gracious to educate, correct, and pray for others who don’t yet “get it.”
February 20, 2020 at 9:32 pm #68469
Yes they are only covering there rears. They are a business and as such are looking out for their bottom line. They care less about the victims. They would have you believe otherwise though. More of the type that want to LOOK good. Cursing at the kids in the backseat on the drive home from church. The right clothes the right makeup. All the things that Satan lures them with. He has them in his grip and they believe him when he tells them they are doing the right thing. I pity the fools. I will pray for their minds to be opened but first and foremost I will forgive them their trespasses against other believers. God forgives all. He also sees a sin as a sin with no degree of wrongness. A white lie is the same as murder in his eyes. Men use a scale of sin to help themselves feel better about themselves. To relieve their shame. If they truly were in the Father’s house they would know, he says “leave your shame at the door it’s not welcome anymore.” So they will point fingers at the sinners who are WORSE than themselves. Again I pity the fools. Insert more prayer and forgiveness here.
February 20, 2020 at 9:41 pm #68477
Robin Vander WallAdmin
Thank you, Mike! Appreciate your testimony.
February 20, 2020 at 10:52 pm #68487
This is a thorny one for me. When I decided to offend, I signed up for all of it – the shame, the punishment, the fear, the registry. That doesn’t mean I’m not doing what I can to try to change things in my corner of the world. I vote. I sue for my rights.
But I think of the laws and courts like the coin of the realm – Matthew 22:21 Jesus said “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s.”
This church and this pastor will get more out of this challenge than will the SBC. To stand for what is difficult but right is an exercise in God’s love and fellowship that will do them well.
God bless them.
February 20, 2020 at 11:08 pm #68489
FYI: I emailed the SBC, and ended up in a back-and-forth (respectful) conversation.
I kept FAC (Florida’s Narsol branch, Florida Action Committee) apprised of each communication as it occurred.
I did not represent myself as a representative of FAC.
Here is the link to the thread on FAC – Look for posts by JJJJ.
Thank you for your organization and hard work!
February 20, 2020 at 11:14 pm #68491
Sorry…forgot the link 🙂
February 20, 2020 at 11:54 pm #68494
Robin Vander WallAdmin
Thanks, Captain! What an interesting dialogue you had with them. Seems they sort of admit their own wrongdoing while continuing to stand behind their misguided decision. I thought the reference to David was interesting. Certainly God punished David for his sin. He took his son from him. For the “offender” this is equivalent to the time one has spent paying for his or her crime. But the idea that being barred from Godly service as a leader of others (such as being a pastor) is somehow or another correlative to the punishment of David is entirely misplaced. David had much work left to do long after the loss of his son…and God continue to use him as a servant leader of his kingdom.
February 21, 2020 at 6:51 am #68501
The instruction in Timothy if taken as an absolute as you imply would disqualify everyone but Christ Himself to lead a congregation. With Paul as a murderer, Peter as a lying denier, Paul and Silas angry discord, James and John concerned about position, Moses a murderer and prone to anger….you get the picture.
God is a God of reconciliation and relationship. Once a dinner repents and makes actual changes towards a life confirming to the mind and nature of Christ, He is above reproach unless and until he transgresses, at which point he is to be gently but firmly guided back to reform. To disqualify on man for a past redeemed is to disqualify all. Using scripture to shame past behavior and hold people up as beyond reproach whose sins are still hidden is to deviate from the intention of the guidance offered.
As a counselor to Christians, many pastors among my clients, I can tell you that the hidden sins of all pastors, deacons, elders, and the lot would disqualify 100% of church leadership. What counts is the repentant and contrite heart seeking to evolve, not the skill at which someone has hidden the sins that we are all prone to.
The SBC has fallen for the narrative of today’s pop culture and forgotten it’s mission to make disciples of ALL, and allowing the brokenness of a repentant person be the strength of their testimony to the restoration God offers. Is this is not an example of mission drift, I don’t know what is.
February 21, 2020 at 6:54 am #68498
I wonder who’s embarrassed and “NAKED” today. While all these comments are good they are peoples views of who respects who or where is true understanding today. One wonders who can spell today with a spell checker or for that matter who is the outcast today. Who uses their grain of salt to savor. Is it the many churches that ban the sex offender or some gossip queen or is it the internet that blast names of people caught up in all this madness that show’s a bias and greedy/gain status to those or does love cover a multiple of sins. So who covets today?
Sure several years ago Robin cautioned me in an email about going to far and using a bit of gospel on NARSOL. While it is not my intention to force anyone we can all speak the truth and yes that is one of the reasons I enjoy this forum as it does bring about a bit of encouragment to many and yes inspiration to all is always good no matter in what situation you are in. Sure some have welcomed me and some have said, why are you even on here.
Yes, I had a potty, a filthy mouth if you want to judge and yes I also had my bit of discernment to make the desicion. Yes we are all suppose to test the spirit. The second night I made the decision. So who caught who in this tale of two cities if you would like to call it that? One wonders who was guiding in this miscarriage of truth and justice. In actuality I believe the police were more embarrassed except the DA. I am Glad that Robin spoke out as well as all others on here.
Now Robin is talking about Southern Baptist and their stance on a sex offender and yes I have to appreciate his view as well as some of these comments to some measure or are we all given a measure of faith? So where does Grace and Truth come into play or does it take Two to Tango and yes if you know how to limbo , than you still are just learning.
So are we all “NAKED” or are we all still searching for that tree of knowledge and true wisdom? Sure there is a reason I am here and I can’t explain it myself. Yes helping others is good but who reaches for the golden cup or are we a lost soul that are labeled outcasts by some means.
I mentioned on here at one time I am nobody. As far as churches they can do what they need to do but who has knowledge and true wisdom today. Sure if Robin and the monitors feel they don’t want to include this comment thats up to them but truth will shine and this registry and its pitfalls will crumble and yes NARSOL and others are are there in this helpoing way . Now go and listen to Posion …. and than say Give me something to believe in.
February 21, 2020 at 6:55 am #68500
Raymond L Shaffer
I guess the baptist and many church leaders do not follow Jesus nor the power of the gospel.
In the first book of corinthians paul delt with a man that committed a sin that the heathen didnt commit.
It was of a sexual nature a man sinned with his fathers wife.
Make no mistake about it paul did turn him over to satan for the destruction of the flesh and they put this man out of the church
Now most of these ministers agree to this point, however the story does not end their, in 2 corithians, the man truely repented and paul said so this man does not be overwhelmed in sorrow, paul said to bring the man back in fellowship, the man truely repented.
We should never use the grace of God to cover sin or make an exscuse for sin but in the same way we should never be like the pharisees that but grievious burdens on men and will not with one finget lift off the burden, they shut up the kingdon of heaven with their traditions and unlawful rules. Jesus said the pharisees made the word of God useless with their traditions of men.
Men are more concerned of reputation than they are the great commission.
Jesus put aside His reputation and made away where their was no way.
Jesus said come unto me all that are weary and heavy layden, He will give you rest for your soul.
Paul said this is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, Christ Jesus came to save sinners of whom iam cheif.
Remember when paul first got saved the early beleivers did not accept his conversions, they understood he was persecuting christians and was giving his vote to have them punished, he was in hearty agreement with the stoneing of stephan, so yes it is normal for people to look and be a lil unbeleiving of someone that may have something in their past, but God put barnabas in pauls life, and paul was a changed man.
The bible says let your Holy life put to silence those who evil speak of you.
If your walking in Jesus God will vindicate and protect, but understand just as paul said i labor the more and walked the walk to silence his critics but most of all the honor the Lord.
The Lord knows them that are His, let him that name the name of Jesus depart from iniquity.
Vengence belongs to God.
Romans 8:1 those who are new creations in Christ there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.
God did say that anyone who offends one of these lil ones that beleive in Him, it would be better that a milstone be hung about his kneck and that person be cast into the depths of the sea.
Walk with Jesus we are servants of God not man.
February 21, 2020 at 9:11 am #68505
I wonder how Paul, who persecuted believers and held the coats of those who stoned Stephen, could pass this novel interpretation of his words, Time to read 1 Corinthians 6:11, Brother.
February 21, 2020 at 9:11 am #68512
While SBC’s decision is certainly contrary to the principles of NARSOL, NARSOL is not (as far as I know) a Christian organization. You can certainly publicly object to SBC’s action. But doing so on theological or doctrinal grounds — whether or not SBC is Christian or un-Christian or operating under the Lordship of Christ — is inappropriate for an organization that purports to represent all kinds of people, of all religions or none.
February 21, 2020 at 9:26 am #68525
It was Paul and BARNABAS who had a sharp contention between them regarding whether or not Mark should accompany them on their next missionary journey because he turned back and left them on the last one (Acts 15:36-41). SILAS took Barnabas’ place. However, it should be noticed that at some point Paul and Barnabas reconciled, as TRUE CHRISTIANS should and do as is indicated in II Tim. 4:11 where Paul asks for Mark and states that he is helpful to him in his ministry. Although the reconciliation is never directly addressed, the Scripture demonstrates that Paul and Barnabas had reconciled and that Paul had forgiven Mark and stated that Mark was useful in the ministry.
Those who do not believe in God or the Church would say I’m using a logical fallacy called “No True Scotsman”. However, I would be very remiss if I failed to point out that in every walk of life there are hypocrites; people who ARE NOT WHO OR WHAT THEY PRETEND TO BE. Sadly this includes the Christian faith. Those who truly follow the Bible as their rule of law would never dis-fellowship a congregation over hiring someone with a certain type of sinful past to be their minister. That clearly WAS NOT the spirit of COMPLETE FORGIVENESS espoused by Christ in John 8:1-11 where we read the account of the woman taken in the act of adultery. We see Christ first deal with all the hypocrites around her in verse 7 where he said, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” Then he addressed the woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. He asked where were those who condemned her and if any had condemned her (vs.10). She answered that no one had condemned her. Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.” THE ONLY CONDITION CHRIST PUT ON HER FORGIVENESS WAS THAT SHE NOT CONTINUE IN HER WILLFUL SIN OF ADULTERY.
It’s obvious here that the S.B.C. isn’t following the Scriptural teachings of forgiveness and redemption and in James 2:10-13 we are clearly taught that if one offends one point of the law, there is guilt for all the law. Here is what the Scripture says:
“10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it. 11 For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.” That last statement also applies perfectly, ‘MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT.”
The S.B.C. is truly guilty of showing partiality based on this man’s past, but it is not a favorable partiality. They are saying HIS SINS are more egregious than anyone else’s and is therefore unfit BY THEIR STANDARDS to stand in the pulpit and preach. James 2:1-9 deals with the SIN IMPARTIALITY. They are holding this man to a standard others are not held to with regards to his past. His past is “too sinful” while God sees sin as lawlessness period I John 3:4.
JAMES 2:1-10 TEACHES THE FOLLOWING REGARDING SHOWING PARTIALITY WITHIN THE CHURCH:
My brothers,[a] show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. 2 For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, 3 and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “You sit here in a good place,” while you say to the poor man, “You stand over there,” or, “Sit down at my feet,” 4 have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? 5 Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Are not the rich the ones who oppress you, and the ones who drag you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who blaspheme the honorable name by which you were called?
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
THEREFORE, SINCE THE S.B.C. IS NOT REFLECTING THAT CLEAR-CUT TEACHING OF SCRIPTURE, THEY ARE GUILTY OF ALL THE LAW AND THEREFORE HAVE NO HIGH GROUND FROM WHICH TO ACT AS THEY HAVE ACTED. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO NEED TO REPENT IN ASHES AND SACKCLOTH.
February 21, 2020 at 9:27 am #68524
Yes, you are right about David. He was punished (by God), but he was still annointed.
Also, God said “Vengeance is MINE. I will repay.”
The SBC are certainly not reflecting Jesus Christ’s values or attitude in this matter.
February 21, 2020 at 9:27 am #68523
Tim in WI
The electronic atheists have the Southern Baptists right where they want them, all congregated in the database. Similar to the Salvation Army their numbers will contract until they’re irrelevant.
February 21, 2020 at 10:20 am #68529
It is needful that their hypocrisy be exposed and backed up with Scripture since this discrimination against a registered citizen is taking place within a religious body that boisterously claims to be followers of Christ. The evidence against them had to be brought forth out of the Scriptures. All that is being done here is using the very words they claim to follow as their guide in life to expose their own hypocrisy.
February 21, 2020 at 10:28 am #68533
Robin Vander WallAdmin
@Judith–NARSOL is not a Christian organization and has no role to play in doctrinal disputes or theological hermeneutics. The article cites to the SBC’s very own statement of doctrine in order to demonstrate that the Executive Committee is acting in opposition to its own doctrinal positions. That is perfectly reasonable for NARSOL to do. It’s no different than calling Facebook out because it says one thing (we’re the world’s largest forum for free speech) while doing another (banning registered people from accessing its forums). And I believe we would hold (and have held) other religious organizations to account when they have acted in a way to diminish the constituency we represent.
February 21, 2020 at 11:03 am #68540
I do not go to church because I know that things are changed from what is real, to what the people in charge want us to believe. I was a part of the Church for many years. I had gone on Missions out of the US, and when we got back the stories that were told were made into untruth. One that hit my heart was about a young boy who lost his family. His grandmother had died and he came down from the mountains. He needed shoes. The shoes, I was able to give to him. The people of the village all came together and took him in, and sent him to school. In 3rd World countries they have to pay for education. The only thing they asked for was a pair of shoes.
When we want to Church the next couple of weeks the Minister started to tell the story of the young boy who came down from the mountain. He started to say that the women of the Village wanted money for themselves by telling this story so that they could have better thing. That we should never send money. I think this was directed at me because I got the address, and knew how to communicate with the village people. This was not the only thing that got changed, there were many.
So when I hear about someone who has done wrong, but has got to a point that he has admitted his sins, and has gone above and beyond. He is the person that has more to give then anyone else. Isn’t this what the System wants! They want to make someone who has done something wrong, get better and show the change.
I think of John 8 in the new testament no one is without sin, who could cast the first stone. I judge no one!
February 21, 2020 at 11:52 am #68542
John David Tynes
I applaud the Church for accepting this pastor and I’m not surprised that the Southern Baptist Convention had a problem with it. I am reminded of a conversation I had several years ago with my pastor in a United Methodist church. I was considering going to divinity school and he explained to me that the United Methodist Church had never accepted ANYONE with a felony conviction as a pastor. He said several people had sued over the issue and the UMC had always prevailed. And we’re supposed to be one of the laid-back denominations! My reply was that my conviction in 1999 and my subsequent behavior were an essential part of what the Church calls “my testimony.” I told him that when the Church excludes people with difficult backgrounds from the ministry, then what they get is testimony that’s invariably, “I found Jesus at age seven and I never looked back!” I told him, “and you and I both know that’s bullsh*t!”
If Christianity is about anything, it’s supposed to be about who you are becoming, not who you were. While many churches pay lip service to that idea, most reject it in practice. If you wonder why young people aren’t flocking to churches today, it is because it doesn’t speak to them and their needs. And also, they know bullsh*t when they see it.
I didn’t go to divinity school. As a result of many conversations with people in organizations like this one, I came to realize that the legal system in this country is broken. In an effort to make a difference, I decided to go to law school. It took me over three years and 20 applications to get in. I graduated in 2013 and fought a seven year battle with my state bar association over whether I would be allowed to take the Bar Exam and practice law in this state. In short, I lost. I was denied, not on the basis of my 20-year-old conviction, nor on the basis of any subsequent behavior, but because of something I SAID to the admissions committee five years ago. The statement was factually accurate, but they didn’t like it. I am not practicing law, but I am using my legal education (and my rather kick-ass Spanish) to help an organization working for the rights of low-income workers and immigrants, and as a writer. Nobody ever said it would be easy.
February 21, 2020 at 12:33 pm #68545
This decision rendered by the SBC is heartbreaking.
I pray that it is not interpreted as God’s Decision in the minds and hearts of those reading this.
I do wonder, though, if the decision’s roots aren’t steeped in ‘church liability’ in the case of any future litigation set forth against it.
May God continue to bless that Pastor and his faithful followers.
February 21, 2020 at 1:22 pm #68547
David V C
Robin mad a very strong and concise point.
The apostle Matthew was extremely despised by his own nation and viewed as a traitor to his people because he worked for the Romans, yet Jesus did not regard the thoughts of the people, but rather used someone totally despised and shunned to be an Apostle and also to write the Book of Matthew.
God looks at our hearts and our ability’s, otherwise we would not have the Bible or Churches anywhere.
February 21, 2020 at 4:16 pm #68556
Daughter promoting kindness
My Heart is heavy for everyone. I am the daughter of a past offender 37 yrs ago. I wish I could sacrifice myself for all of you especially my beautiful dad! The pain we all endure daily/hourly is unimaginable. Why wont anyone stop this craziness. I am a Christian. I have had to deal with the loss of my son while dealing with this damn registry.
I was picked on in school at age 10 and it hasn’t stopped there. I am now 47yrs old with severe PTSD. I guess it started at age 10 my therapist told me. My dad was NEVER EVER mean or abusive through out his entire life. He actually WAS abused all of his 72 yrs and still if you met him right now he would give you his last dollar.
My dad is being attacked again. I lost my job of 24 yrs last year because I am related to my dad. That’s is fine I can thank the local police department for that. The police department loves facebook. I chose my dad over any job any day. Besides I got a new better job so everyone can kiss my BUTT and I now own my very own company! No one will help me, everyone is scared.
My Parents were targeted last week by a phone scam. I took the phone away from my dad and flipped out on the scammer and guess what he told me disgusting things right down to my underwear. How is that ok!!!!!????? My parents and I have our guards back up. This is in Maine.
I went to my church to see if they could help instead they turned me away. Why are we here, this is not America. What ALL past offenders want IS JUST TO BE LEFT ALONE! The government and state wont let that happen with more and more laws. What it will take is a high official getting caught up in this stupid, god forsaken registry! I just found out those not on the registry in Maine are also still getting harrassed! I thought if my dad was off it then that would be the end but that’s not the case here is Maine. I hope to write a book with my dad and blow this whole thing apart! I hope my dad accepts my offer to write his side but that also means reliving this again, but hey lets face it, we families, present and past offenders live it every day. DOES THE PUBLIC EVEN CARE TO REALIZE lots of us have to plan our daily lives accordingly just so we are safe. We cant just wake up and start the day like others. My dad grew a beautiful beard when he retired and then two sheriffs knocked on their door to see if it was really HIM. ITS JUST A BEARD! Maine is getting worse.
THIS CHURCH SOUNDS LIKE THEY LET THE DEVIL TAKE THE DRIVER SEAT ON THIS ONE. THEY ARE NOT TRUE CHRISTIANS!
PLEASE KNOW I UNDERSTAND YOU ALL. I LOVE YOU ALL, YOU ARE ALL BEAUTIFULLY IMPERFECT TO ME! GOD HELP US ALL!
February 21, 2020 at 9:10 pm #68560
Actually Robin has a good article and yes all that comments were gereatly appreciated but their are still a few flaws in some of these arguments hashing out these things. While many will agree with the bible and the lesson. As someone said to me what does that have to do with the sex offender registry. As far as Data goes. God know’s every hair on each one of you all. I don’t think a computer would know that.
Being realistic I could of said when when I first met my PO seven years ago and he said in the Old Nestament I would have been stoned. Sure I could of said those without sin cast the first stone but that would be a bit arrogent on my patrt or smart mouthed.
One of the main thing Robin is doing is is a comparison with those without sin. This decon or, Preacher, lay person in the church lost his job because of this sex offender ordeal.
One wonders if women are the same way. I hope this doesn’t shock anyone but the man did not sin. And yes we still have a thorn in the flesh
Many teenagers getting caught up in this thing today have no where to seek counsel for much of this sex registry ordeal and NARSOL is here and a few other advocates to help and yes helping others is very good. Many teens would rather avoid church but there is nothing wrong with keeping up with the good book and the morals it teaches and yes visiting and refreshing oneself in church.
In fact Robin actually has the answer as well as so many of you all and yes a lot of this registry ordeal can be over if one wants it to and with NARSOL’s orgization and the other advocates I believe the timing is right for many.
As far as myself I believe we all should care and voice out. Doesn’t the bible say think of others better than yourself. Isn’t that what NARSOL is doing or am I wrong. I’m sure many or some have loved one’s mixed up in much of this nonsense. So how does one stop this easy. If you want to know how let me know as I am not a “force of one” and I never liked the movie. I wouldn’t even vote for women’s lib or a Jane Fonda makeover.
Sure we all can vent, have differences of opinion, get angry, rant, even PSTD can crop up with many or much of this ordeal, not to mention depressing and a whole list of other things and yes nobody likes complainers but Robin’s a good man and I’m glad he brought this article to everyone’s attention. It the truth that matters in everything.
February 22, 2020 at 11:12 am #68567
Dear Captain, I personally THANK YOU for your wise and disciplined engagement with the SBC.
It was brilliant, sir.
This kind of Godly activity on our part, is the kind of activity that will ultimately change the horrific State and Federal policies that we must suffer under at the present time.
This story is being read by many Christian leaders who make that policy.
It is challenging them at their very heart level.
Christians here in this forum.. pray.
Pray for these policymakers.
Pray that they will see the error in their policy and restore the freedoms that our Constitution provides.
Next, like our dear Captain Brother…engage.
At what ever level is possible within your circumstances.
I, for one, am sending the story to my Brothers and Sisters.
They are all on social media.
Through one or all of them, it will make its way to more policymakers.
Only the Church led by Jesus Christ is strong enough to overcome the evil that is running rampant in our society today.
If we move with His Strength in front of and within us…the registry will fall.
God please hasten the day.
February 22, 2020 at 10:40 pm #68587
Thank you for this discussion. I pastored for 35 years until my arrest in 2015 for sexual abuse. When done with my probation, I want to minister to sex offenders. Paul saw a great door open to the Gentiles in his day. With almost one million of us now on the registry, another great door has opened to a lot of hurting people. Our hurt doesn’t diminish the hurt we caused our victims. We never want to offend again; no more victims. The truth is, most of us were victims as a child that warped our normal, healthy sexual development. We have been tormented by this. A great pleasure was awakened in each of us that we weren’t ready to manage. The movies and music didn’t help either. Everything seem to nurture our fault-line. If we only could have sought help prior to our arrest, but our justice system has indirectly created secrecy. And we all learned in treatment that “secrecy is the fuel of offending.” Thank God for the day it all came out into the open so we could be helped. We must tell society that sex offenders are worth helping. God is no respecter of persons and loves us as much as ever. Yes, we let a lot of people down. But we having been doing that since Adam. We have proven the Bible true that all have sinned and fallen short. We didn’t fall from grace; we fell into grace. We no longer must add layers of righteousness and good works to cover our grave sin. No more running. God’s mercy, grace and love found us and covered a multitude of sins. Now, let’s share this good news with all sex offenders and deliver them from the offender pit of total despair.
February 22, 2020 at 10:40 pm #68578
What state do you live in? Kentucky will not allow me to vote!
February 22, 2020 at 10:40 pm #68574
Not what I imply but what scripture teaches. Please read my response to Robin Vander Wall
Admin. for context.
Overseers are to be elder men, not new converts, & beyond reproach. So then the questions becomes, are you beyond reproach? That depends on time & fruits. (It might take years for him to reestablish a fine reputation so as to be free from accusation again.)
God sets high standards for those who oversee his people and teach his Word. James said of himself and other elders: “We shall receive heavier judgment.” And Jesus stated this guiding principle: “The one whom people put in charge of much, they will demand more than usual of him.”—James 3:1; Luke 12:48.
Therefore, if a Christian overseer sins flagrantly but repents, he might remain a member of the congregation, but he should be removed from his office of overseer. He is no longer irreprehensible. It might take years for him to reestablish a fine reputation so as to be free from accusation again. His case may be likened to that of Hezekiah’s steward, Shebna. For his misconduct Jehovah rebuked him with the words: “I will push you away from your position; and from your official standing one will tear you down.” But later Shebna must have regained his fine reputation because we read that he was again in the king’s service as secretary.—Isaiah 22:15-22; 36:3.
Thank you for an insightful discussion.
February 22, 2020 at 10:40 pm #68575
Terms have been muddled with tradition.
Note: I strive to adhere to first century Christian doctrine & congregation organization.
All Christians should recognize scripture, Hebrew & Greek, contain lessons regarding sin, sinners, repentance, and favor with God.
These issues show us just how narrow the way…
“But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it.…” Matthew 7:14
There was no set number of overseers for any one congregation. The number of overseers depended upon the number of those qualifying and accredited as “older men” in that congregation. That there were several overseers in the one congregation of Ephesus is evident. Likewise, in writing to the Philippian Christians, Paul referred to the “overseers” there (Php 1:1), indicating that they served as a body, overseeing the affairs of that congregation.
*He could be appointed only if he had lived down any reproach and made a good name for himself. (Without context & without knowing this man, this could be the case. I do not know if he is a recent convert, this would disqualify him as overseer.)
Apostle: send forth (or off)
In that sense Paul is an apostle. Paul is not, however, one of the 12 apostles. When the apostle John saw the vision of the heavenly New Jerusalem in the Revelation (given about 96 C.E.) he saw only 12 foundation stones and on them inscribed “the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.” (Re 21:14) The testimony of the Holy Scriptures is clear that the apostle Paul was never referred to as one of “the twelve.”
This man, like many, has a testimony. This man is able to preach the Gospel without blessing of any one denomination. It’s always best practice to follow scripture, God’s word, not man. On this we can all agree.
Thank you for allowing all points of view.
February 23, 2020 at 5:42 am #68603
In many ways there is good and bad in everything. Since Robin brought this article up it does speak volume and yes this will be my last comment. Sure all of you all’s comments are good and on target in many respects. See we can all use but abusing is not what its all about and yes I’m sure people feel sad for that deacon also as they probably dont’ know the true story. I even made an error on here with my comment or should we all say” To error is human to forgive divine.
So who told you were ” NAKED”. One wonders if the constitution is NAKED today with this deceitful ordeal on mankind. See Adam was not deceived . Sure I hate to see anyone suffer, even those homeless men alongside a business intersection bumming for money to live or just to get by. Is that any way to live.
Sure the homeless need jobs and living quarters and yes straightening one’s self out is good. Sure we all can preach up for this and that but its using in the right way that really matters.
One wonders who’s more hypocrite today than who. I’m sure a lot of us have our own views on that one. Since Robin brought this article to our attention here’s a simple solution to fix a lot of this unjust ordeal so here goes. A lot of people in the past year or so have used the phrase it takes “Two to tango” but actually it only takes wisdom and understanding.
Now law enforcement are using the sword in vain. Even Pilate washed his hands of the matter and throw it to the people. To make a long comment short go to my friends page.. Let God be True and listen to Proverbs 11:12 and that will take care of a lot of issues and help in these and many ordeals.
And this SBC issue is just as upsetting. So like a roaring lion and a rushing bear is a wicked ruler over a poor people. I may come back on here in time but this article and the comments are a bit much in many ways.
I’m no Job I only have mustard seed faith. I wonder why that their is one verse in the bible Paul said that nobody seems to like… Let God be true and every man a liar and that cuts deep. Maybe government should take note of that. So who’s a minister of truth and true justice today? One wonders fi we all should say Give me something to believe in.
February 23, 2020 at 9:57 am #68608
As a strong supporter of registered citizens and a firm believer in the rights of someone to move forward fully in life, I truly feel conflicted on this. I’m not sure I agree with the SBC’s decision to expel the member church on the grounds of having a registrant as a pastor. However, I do feel unsure about choosing to have someone who has sexually harmed as a pastor. When I think of the safety planning and awareness required for the reunification our family, at times it feels very overwhelming. I can only imagine how much more mind-boggling it might feel for a pastor. Some things (such as never counseling a parishioner alone for example) are likely across the board good practices for any pastor. But other things, like interaction with youth and children, feel more difficult to navigate.
Additionally, coming from a faith perspective, one believes in spiritual warfare, and pastors are attacked relentlessly with the temptation to cause them to fall. The enemy is never creative and will use weaknesses to tempt – relentlessly. That puts everyone in a vulnerable position.
I think this is a complex issue – decisions should NOT be made to “save face” as it appears the SBC has done, but I do think that extensive discourse and deep examination needs to happen. It’s true that this could have happened and those “outside” will never be satisfied with those discussions (they just believe the registrant should be shunned)… but I do think this is a topic that requires a lot of thought and prayer.
February 24, 2020 at 10:55 am #68624
Sadly, I feel many churches are biased. I searched for a church for my son and I to attend. After attending several services at the Unitarian Church I decided I liked their mission and their beliefs that all were worthy and welcome. I attended a service with my son when he was released from prison and it was so heartwarming to see him greeted and singing hymns. I called the interim church leader and told her my son was a person who had committed a sexual offense and exactly what his offense was. She chastised me for having him attend without her permission. She called me several weeks later to say that she could not find him on the registry. I was appalled that she tried to look him up as opposed to meeting and getting to know us. She said the board would have to meet and determine his conditions to attend. I never responded again. I decided that my church has always been the environment that GOD created the natural world and I would continue to seek solace there on Sunday mornings. Sad because everyone needs hope and a, circle of friends and fellowship.
February 24, 2020 at 3:37 pm #68627
“1 Timothy 3:1-7
“An overseer, then, must be above reproach … Furthermore, he must have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the snare of the devil.”
So you are saying someone who did wrong in the past can never be above reproach, and further more who can be above reproach? Sounds like this man had a good reputation people came to hear him preach the word!
The people in his church should be ones to decide!
February 24, 2020 at 4:33 pm #68632
Thank you for your patience with me, everyone.
This is my third post to this article.
It just affects me on so many levels.
My last thought is this:
Either Jesus can heal and restore people…or He can’t.
I believe…that He can.
February 25, 2020 at 10:59 am #68642
I’m curious as to why my comment has been blocked.
February 25, 2020 at 10:59 am #68634
Hello, I’m just curious what was wrong with my post that it was not posted so i may correct it. I may be wrong i might not have put up a post and if i didnt i appollowgize, if you choose not to answer i understand and i thank you for your time and patience.
February 25, 2020 at 11:01 am #68646
I have not seen any recent pending or deleted comments from either of you. I don’t know what you are talking about.
February 26, 2020 at 2:08 pm #68730
I had to come back one more time as much of this does present a puzle in this article that Robin has presentated. One wonders if every picture tells a story. One wonders who has humility today or is humble in this episode and this article that Robin presents. Sure we can make comments either on key or off base. Do we as humans make a problem more perplexing or is there some other element that mankind wants to understand with their wisdom.
In this lesson is it the pride or curiousity or the pride of persecution or could it be the pride of the papyrus or a Heretic type of view in this flaw. Now Robin is presenting a comparison as far as one can see or who is compromising in judgement or truth.
Hey are we all proud when we all have the right answer or who is persecuting who with this church ordeal about this precher. Sure I mentioned wisdom but to much wisdom is not good and I don’t want to be wise or a know it all. Sure wisdom is good in any situation but one has to understand Robin brought up a good comparison with this article and it makes us all understand more of this confusing ordeal in this registry situation and this biblical situation.
Someone on here talked about saving face. So where is the indigination of government authorities today. One has to wonder if twisting or perveting this SBC is an error or is the registry an error of government understanding. In many ways who is repaying evil for evil. or who is enticed with much of this registry today. Who argues about spilt milk or who cleans up the mess in this cheap form of invasion.
Sure this article is a stepping stone and a comparison in many ways but sometimes silence is golden and many times we all have to stand up for truth. I believe that is one of the reasons Sandy doesn’t want religon mixed up with this registry ordeal but at times you can’t have one without the other in many issues of this registry. So who errors in this man-made vain glory or is the flesh weak.
Their are two kinds of safety. There is civil safety and spiritual safety and nothing wrong with Rationalizating or Rational laws and that is what NARSOL is all about. So is mankind going a bit too far or who is elevating themselves above others. So who is rebelling in who’s position today the SBC or this indignation with much of this registry snare.
February 28, 2020 at 1:06 am #68832
Robin Vander WallAdmin
@Judith. Your comment was not blocked. It’s been showing for days now. And I responded to it, which has also been showing. Is your comment not showing for you?
February 28, 2020 at 6:43 am #68841
found it. thanks.
February 28, 2020 at 8:44 pm #68859
Robin with this Article you have presentated is actually a gold mind and I do have to congradulate you. This Article is not only interesting but you have found the Rational answer or the key with this article with all these view’s and this comparison.
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony.
Whoever has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
So are we all foolish at times and talk a bit too much or who rushes to judgement in these ordeals. Who is bending the gavel. Are judges hands tied or making righteous judgement. Who is sowing discoruse today or who is breaking the commandments.
February 29, 2020 at 6:13 am #68865
We shouldn’t be surprised at this. When I was caught up in the nightmare that is the American justice system and facing certain death, there had been a chaplain who had changed his friendly deamnor, got this stern look on his face and told me “Not gonna happen,” “I know someone who got 17 years for that,” “God’s gonna grow you up,” “You’re gonna make it.” After the last comment, he put his hand on my shoulder. We were in a forensic treatment center where he worked.
He made those comments after I implied that God would save me completely from that situation and system. He had coldly, spoke as if God was going to let me go through that horrific system to “grow me up” and that I would “make it” to heaven someday, basically after the system had killed me off. Some scary stuff, I tell ya.
The wolf-in-sheep’s clothing will never realize, that I was saved, by God, a relatively short amount of time after he had made those comments to me. He would play Christian music off of a radio and teach this Bible series from which he would give residents (or patients), copies for them to read and study. He fooled me and other residents with his overall friendly demeanor and told me more than once that he prayed for me. I am probably the only resident, to have realized that he was no man of God.
February 29, 2020 at 11:40 pm #68902
A lot of Christian churches aren’t legitimate to began with. A number of them are just for show, with members who live by man-made traditions. A lot of them are pretty much like cults.
A number of people who call themselves are no different than the non-Christians around them. Especially when it comes to SO crimes. When those crimes are brought up, a lot of people will show who they really are. Whether they call themselves Christians or not.
There are churches that pander to the “LGBT” community, putting the teachings of the Bible aside, and promoting the lifestyle and use of the rainbow flag, as well as performing same-sex marriages, which are abominable. Abortions are acceptable to some of those churches too.
Mankind must really be in serious trouble, if it is some small amount of “scum,” who would make into paradise as opposed to the millions of “law-abiding” citizens out there. Though the “scum,” must make that choice.
March 5, 2020 at 11:36 am #69126
Matthew Ted Arnold
Unfortunately in some states churches have to do that, it’s required by law. but thank the great good Lord Utah isn’t one of them states although churches have more autonomy in Utah than most states which means they can do more things like what the southern Baptist convention just did, here in Utah it’s really discretionary what the pastor can do!
March 6, 2020 at 12:48 pm #69189
Thanks Robin, I understand… thumbs up to you and high five.
March 12, 2020 at 10:55 am #69441
Typical Christianity…. I read posts decrying those who do not adhere to “correct” Christianity. I ask, who defines what is or is not correct? Thankfully, I am an atheist… 20 years of incarceration within the Orwellian confines of the Texas DOC (TDCJ) opened my eyes to the ruse of religion.
How many within NARSOL and/or those on the registry stop to think about the politicians who make these laws. Would it be a reasonable assessment to state at least 98% of them profess to be “good Christians?” … just something to think about.
I thank Jesus I am not a Christian.