Michigan State Police Turning Away Pre-2011 Registrants

Viewing 43 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • #69355 Reply
      Fred
      Fred
      Admin

      Last week it came to NARSOL’s attention that there had been a sudden new development in the Does v. Snyder case. Michigan State Police have decided th
      [See the full post at: Michigan State Police Turning Away Pre-2011 Registrants]

    • #69359 Reply
      Avatar
      d

      Sounds like a setup to me. If the law gets changed and still includes them I would not be surprised it they are arrested and charged If the police refuse to give them prof they attempted to register and were denied then i would be twice as worried to be one of these guys. One thing this disaster in my life has taught me is the government does not care about you at all. This is just one big government overreach meant to create a subgroup of citizens with less rights.

      1. Report your address yearly or be punished = compelled speech a Constitutional violation

      2. Determination that you are a Danger and classifying you as such without due process = no Due Processes a constitutional violation

      3. If any of these laws are done to punish or are found to be punitive = Double Jeopardy a constitutional violation

      4. Coming to your house to see if you live there = Illegal search a constitutional violation

      Everything they are doing is against our rights and they know this. They are not doing it for the children they are putting children in the registry now. They might do it for votes, but i believe it is for control, and creating citizens without rights the real government agenda!

    • #69402 Reply
      Avatar
      Dr.

      You want to know what they’re planning?
      Michigan. Gov. Sor ,,,,,,,,,contract with
      Coplogic out of Georgia,

    • #69455 Reply
      Avatar
      Tim in WI

      Turning registrants away while the law still hasn’t actually been rewritten. One more example of selective enforcement by LEO. Sure they are doing the right thing adjusting to courts determination, but 3 years after the first decision & after the blatant lack constitutional integrity of MI congress exposed bear.

      Chicago Illinois had issues of registrants attempting to register but being turned away for other reasons, like staff availability. Turning folks away after they show up willingly to register is a form of affirmative restraint on liberty and examples rule by fiat disposition law enforcement agencies advantage have today.

    • #69487 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      Out of the pan and into the fire, They set it up this way with the intent of pulling a “gotcha”, it’s typical tactics and doesn’t surprise me. Expect arrests of SOs to increase soon.

    • #69521 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      It is VERY clear that the State of Michigan continues to refuse to grant SOs the relief they fought so hard for and won, Constitutionally I might add. When will it actually happen? When will it end? Will we ever see relief? I’m only asking what everyone else wants to know. I know there has been progress, but it seems like one step forward and 3/4 step right back at every turn. Now the State wants a mulligan on the original Snyder case, and we ALL know what that would entail, as well as the outcome.

    • #69564 Reply
      Avatar
      Bob

      Actually not at all shocked that MSP has taken this stance. Once a year every year (couple times twice) they’ve been at my doorstep to “check in” and each and every time well as this very last time the troopers have never once been shy in voicing just how much of a pain and drain on resources this whole registry thing has become to them. One that showed up recently was the best one yet as when I stated my disdain for politics, politicians, current state (more like sate of confusion) of the registry and the affects it was having on us registrants and even more so the LEO’s who are stuck in the middle having no choice but to do the door to door details and enforce laws that even they know don’t work and were long deemed unconstitutional by the courts, he didn’t hesitate in agreeing with me “off the record” with a laugh and several head nods. Ask any reputable LEO (who’s off duty of course) how they feel about the law and they’ll give you an earful and tell you how they themselves don’t even use the public SOR.

    • #69597 Reply
      Avatar
      DON HENKEN

      In light of the decision reached by the courts in Michigan can or will the National ACLU bring a a similar case on a national level that would effect all registrants in the United States?

    • #69599 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      @Bob I wouldn’t let what your local officers say fool you, 2+ million dollars a year extorted from SOs is a considerable amount of income for the State Police, they aren’t about to let it go without a fight.

    • #69601 Reply
      Avatar
      Don

      Oh man, not this shit again.

      First, Bob is right on point. MSP HATES enforcing that law. Every time I have ever been “checked in on” by a MSP Trooper, the FIRST THING out of their mouth is “I’m very sorry, I don’t like this and the State is making me do it.”

      Yes, this whole thing has been a massive drain on MSP, and local Sheriffs too. They don’t like the law, they cannot understand it, and often times have less of an understanding than an actual Registrant does. I have tutored many a Deputy and Detective on it since I often come into contact with them for professional reasons…I install camera systems at businesses in my free time and I will usually work with them on footage needs. I know just about every Macomb County Deputy and about 1/2 of their detectives.

      Ok, so idiocy control:

      NO, the State is not setting anybody up. The Governor and AG are most likely well aware that the MSP has thrown in the towel on pre-2011 Registrants just to reduce their workload.

      If the Governor and AG are not fully aware, there is NO WAY they are going to consent to any kind of post-turn away round up as many here have speculated on. Not to mention, it would be in Court so fast that it would make your head spin. The ACLU would see to that, and so would I, working with them.

      The most likely outcome for pre-2011 Registrants is they will remain on the Registry, but never be updated again. They might even simply come off the Registry after a time since the information will be progressively out of date. The argument will be “why keep it, if it is no longer accurate?”

      So, PLEASE PLEASE stop the idol speculation and nonsense. What folks are suggesting here is some sort of SOR APOCOLYPSE. Not going to happen. Even if they wanted to (which they don’t) try something as outrageous as this, MI has no way of sending about 30,000 people up the river all at once. We cannot even get our roads fixed right, and Flint still has lead in the water. No money to fix it all. Anybody that thinks MI has the money to prosecute and imprison tens of thousands like this is living in fantasy land.

      Peace out everybody.

    • #69605 Reply
      Avatar
      J. Schultz

      @Don, what makes you right.? I for one don’t agree with your OPINION. It is untrue, in my view, that the state wouldn’t love to lock every last one of us up, forever if possible, and I absolutely definitely believe this is real, not for one second will I ever trust ANY authority or government that openly persecutes innocent citizens. I consider myself to be a political prisoner, my rights ignored, my life destroyed, my safety threatened, my economic and social status less than that of dog. Perhaps you might educate yourself about how and why this little Registration snafu arose in the first place? Ever heard of Does v. Snyder? HOW about reading the Court’s opinion? Or maybe the MI AG brief? I find it infuriating and insulting, almost blasphemous, to read your uninformed incorrect and dangerous narrative. If you want to live with your head stuffed in the mud, see no evil, hear no evil, they wouldn’t ever do that, hey, be my guest, but don’t you for one goddamned second pretend to know what is true or real for the rest of us. You are the one who is delusional, I agree with the rest of us, watch your ass cause they ain’t gonna like losing.

    • #69612 Reply
      Avatar
      patrick

      Here is the biggest issue we have right now, these are all opinions (which we are entitled to) but the bottom line is the MSP is turning away pre 2011 registrants for whatever reason. the other bottom line is this until the law is written and we see something concrete in writing of what to expect as changes going forward we really know NOTHING. with that said can we not try to spread rumors and speculation about the law (yes we have all been patiently waiting I know) because until then we won’t know really anything.

    • #69620 Reply
      Avatar
      Don

      Hey J. Schultz.

      I am one of the Class Action Representatives in Does II. One of 6.

      So, uninformed I am not. I am pretty thoroughly tied into what the ACLU has done, what they are doing, and what their current take is of the Legislature, Governor, and AG.

      Enough said.

    • #69653 Reply
      Avatar
      Charles

      I believe change and waiting patiently is difficult for all classes of people/human beings. Self control right now going forward is where it’s at. Do the job we are all supposed to that will allow our freedom to enjoy life in Michigan, USA or in another country/state etc. Basically life is still yours to make of it what you want. If we choose not to, someone will make the choice for us.
      Our whole system of government is going to have to be reworked into a new SORA system. Not an easy task or quick either.
      Thank you ACLU and those involved pushing for change. Persistence is paying off. I might not be able to do your job so I’ll just do mine. I’m happy with what’s being done so far! I can see the mountain shake, tremble and the ground is moving……its moving!
      I’m sure it’s easier for some to talk about it then to be about it. Don’t forget that was a great Valentines day victory for all of us!!

      Congratulations

    • #69681 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      That’s great and all, but I suggest against any false sense of security, this is more “eye of the storm” than it being done and over with, relief might be short lived. Never rest.

    • #69689 Reply
      Avatar
      Tim P

      While no one knows the final out come of this issue. I can be fairly sure that arrest will NOT take place if you are a member of the pre April 12, 2011 class in this action. If for some reason a local Police Dept. or Sheriffs Dept. did make an arrest the case would be thrown out once the Judge saw the order from the MSP. And while the MSP can not tell local jurisdictions what to do the memo itself would be proof of the reason the Registered Citizen did not register. (those who’s conviction happen prior to April 12,2011). While the MSP did make many mistakes in the order itself, for example not saying what things are no longer required from post April 12,2011 members of that class. (people who’s conviction happen after April 12,2011) we are confident that once the order is signed and on the record in the court this will be cleared up and that signing could take place today or soon this week. I should note that the order will NOT go into effect for 60 days from the date it is on the record in the court. Of course there is a slim chance the State will start working to rewrite the law and then of course it will have to be constitutional.

      Tim P ACLU of Michigan SOR Specialist

    • #69709 Reply
      Avatar
      Josh

      @Don….I argued with you about the possible outcome on another thread on this site…..this time I’m going to agree with you. My experience with every officer doing my verifications or compliance checks at my residence has told me exactly the same things…..they KNOW it’s bullshit and a waste of time. I do have a question for you though….why do you think we’d remain on the registry after this is resolved? I’m starting to be convinced more strongly everyday that there is no chance they can get a new law done before 60 days is up…..especially given the current crisis and the fact that these legislators can’t possibly have a registry re-write on the top of their to do lists while they’re working via video conferencing from home. I do believe they may attempt something down the road after this virus situation is resolved…..thoughts?

    • #69713 Reply
      Avatar
      BM

      All -IMO this crisis we are facing with Covid may work in our favor.
      1. Probable 60 days will lapse and potentially much longer.
      2. If this does play out past the 60 days, there’s little urgency to fix it since the legislature has court cover and can blame the virus also for inaction.
      3. It gets kicked past the election, which politically is better for us to get the best outcome.

      Anyone else see this angle?

    • #69729 Reply
      Avatar
      Russ

      I went to register today. And was turned away. I’m literally scared shitless right now.

      • #69731 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        You don’t need to be. This whole “Document your visit” thing is just a precaution. Honestly those of us in the know, know this a good thing and that you are basically free of your registering obligations. Unless the legislators find a way to rewrite the law and include you, but from what I am hearing that is very unlikely. If they do, you are not going to be in trouble for being turned away.

    • #69742 Reply
      Avatar
      Bobby S.

      @Fred

      Have you by chance heard if the Judgment was filed on the 13th,? I have heard or been able to find anything on it yet
      I even emailed, Tim from the MI ACLU and have not heard back from him as of yet. I did register on the 2nd at my local cop shop, and they did take my $50, but that was before the memo went out, the one I sent you. I’m just wondering if it was filed on Friday and what the status is now.

      • #69744 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        We don’t usually hear about that. That is just paperwork being signed and filed. We might be able to find it online, if the circuit court maintains a website for documents, but even then, the website still has to be updated and the frequency of that can vary.
        Like Tim P. said, if it wasn’t filed yesterday, it will be this week. That will definitely get done as he has already ruled on the case and will file the judgement in the usual time frame.

    • #69745 Reply
      Avatar
      Josh

      @Fred….somebody with a pacer account reported on ACSOL that there was a one week mutually agreed upon extension approved by judge Cleland. The order is supposed to be entered by no later then 3/20 now…I don’t have a pacer account so no way to verify this but hopefully it answers the question

    • #69757 Reply
      Avatar
      blaek

      uhm they have a bill on the legislator website and it is literaly the opposite of what i think the judge wanted. nothing changed and we are still being forced ex post facto to almost all the 2011 and 2006 rules. I am hoping the ACLU is not ok with this bill.

      • #69760 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        @black,
        Part of the judge’s order is that the legislators work with ACLU in rewriting the law. Whatever you read, I don’t think it means what you think it means. What Bill? What website?

    • #69761 Reply
      Avatar
      blaek

      michigans website for bills introduced yesterday.

      • #69766 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        @black,
        Thank you,
        I am reviewing it and sent it to some others to review.
        What I can tell you so far is that he only introduced it. It hasn’t passed the first hurdle yet.
        Remember that what has been struck down is the residency restrictions, and the requirement to report certain things within a certain amount of time, along with the ex post facto issue. So far I am not seeing any mention of those things in this bill and no mention of proximity to school and parks, ect.. I am still reading, but so far it looks like an attempt to carve out those obvious constitutional violations, but it cannot just ignore the ex post facto clause.

    • #69767 Reply
      Fred
      Fred
      Admin

      Okay I see those things I mentioned above. He is removing some of the vagueness of the current law. I hope to hear from someone else who has better understanding of what this means and who it applies to. I will update this when I know.

    • #69768 Reply
      Avatar
      blaek

      im really hoping judge cleland and the aclu didnt sign off on this. I hope this is not the bill we are waiting for. No way this took this long to do plus it doesnt look like a rewrite of anything.

      • #69770 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        @black
        I confident they didn’t and won’t sign off on it. It was only introduced yesterday. Nobody has read it yet.

    • #69771 Reply
      Avatar
      blaek

      ok i wasnt understanding why someone would try to introduce this bill. After everything the aclu has fought for this couldnt be the final product.

      • #69773 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        @black
        That is what politicians do.
        I just confirmed with our person in ACLU that they are aware of this. It is NOT what they are negotiating for. It hasn’t gotten to committee yet. If it makes it that far ACLU will be there.

    • #69774 Reply
      Avatar
      blaek

      ok thank you for the updates. Hopefully michigan can get their stuff together.

    • #69888 Reply
      Avatar
      Brandon

      I Just seen on pacer there is another extension of March 27th to submit the joint judgment.

    • #69938 Reply
      Avatar
      Bobby

      @Brandon, Thank you, for the update, but all these extensions being given to the state is getting out of control. Just sign the damn order and start removing pre- 2006-2011 people.

    • #69945 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      And here we go once again, they will any and every excuse in the book to extend, delay, be granted a stay, until it goes their way and we are all kept on the registry. It wouldn’t surprise me if they used the Corona virus as an excuse to continue to enforce these laws that were RULED UNCONSTITUTIONAL NOT ONCE, BUT TWICE now. Anyone keeping score here? Mark my words, our victories will be in name only, the State will make sure of it.

    • #70160 Reply
      Avatar
      Russ

      I just don’t understand this. I was turned away when I went to register at the state police on St. Patrick’s day. I asked for something in writing. He said there is no need for that due to the “fact” that no agency is enforcing the law. Well. The law is still in effect. Meaning I am going to be non-compliant very soon. I called the Lakeview post. The Sgt. I spoke with was very aggressive and rude. And told me I’m supposed to get a letter. Telling me what to do next. And that I am “in limbo” and really didn’t answer any of my very valid concerns. I called the kent county sheriff’s Dept. They said they were still registering individuals. But the office was closed due to this Corona virus. So that has me very worried I’m going to receive a knock at my door. Or an officer is going to show up to my work. To arrest me for a felony for literally doing nothing. And trying to go above and beyond to stay compliant. This is in my opinion a complete mess. And very very dangerous for us.

      • #70163 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        @Russ
        First don’t worry. You will not get a knock on your door.
        The state police manage the registry. The local police might take your information, but the registry is still managed by the state police.
        It is an official order that says pre 2011 registrants do not need to register and non compliance charges cannot be filed. That applies to both state and local police. I have the order that was passed down to the state police, I will upload it and post a link to it shortly. If you are still nervous, you can print it and show it to any police officer who didn’t get the memo.

    • #70167 Reply
      Fred
      Fred
      Admin

      @Russ

      UPDATE AND CLARIFICATION – Enforcement of Michigan Sex Offender Registry Act.
      https://narsol.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/EnforcementMemo.pdf

    • #70170 Reply
      Avatar
      Russ

      Fred. Thanks for all you do.

    • #70172 Reply
      Avatar
      Russ

      Fred you are very knowledgeable with all this. In your opinion. What is your gut feeling on where this whole situation is going to go? It seems like a confusing mess that has the future of alot of individuals just dangling in very thin air. These pre 2011 registrants are in quite particular circumstances. Being convicted as a juvenile back in 2002. I always thought it was highly unconstitutional to take me from 25 years of requirement. To life. And I am not the only one. And I feel for all individuals caught up in this mess. So what should pre 2011 registrants. And juvenile sentenced offenders expect?
      Thanks again Fred.

      • #70178 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        I think it will be very difficult for Michigan lawmakers to rewrite the law in a way that puts pre2011 restraints back under the same rules and restrictions. At this time I don’t see how they can do it without it being struck down. They might try though, but my impression is they are not putting a lot of effort into it.

    • #70191 Reply
      Avatar
      Bobby

      @Fred, I was just wondering if you heard or might possibly know if court was held today in Judge Cleland’s court room. If so was the judgement finally finalized or is it on hold because of covid-19.

    • #70201 Reply
      Avatar
      Brandon

      @Bobby there was a teleconference on Thursday. Something was filed on Friday but for some reason pacer won’t let me read it. Next action on the dockets is memorandum due 3/30

    • #70205 Reply
      Avatar
      Phil Grimes

      Fred, please clarify the April 11, 2011 date in reference to this subject. The letter in the link you posted clearly references the offense occuring prior to this date, but others in this and other forums talk of the conviction date or the date the individual was placed on the registry. My offense occurred in December 2010, however my conviction was in July 2011. Am I part of the group this court decision refers to?

      • #70213 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        @Phil Grimes
        My understanding is that the ruling applies to pre April 12 2011 registrants in Michigan. That should include you if you are in Michigan.

    • #70209 Reply
      Avatar
      Bobby

      @Brandon, Thank you for the update and if you don’t mind me asking what memorandum is on the docket and suppose to be filed on 3/30. Please keep checking your PACER, and keeping us updated. Thank you again for the updates.

    • #70216 Reply
      Avatar
      Brandon

      @Bobby it’s still not downloading for me put but my understanding from I have heard memorandum is just how both sides wish to proceed during coronavirus.

      Anyone can sign up pacer.gov it just shows court records. The case number for this case is 16-13137 easier to find if filter by civil cases.

      If you don’t wish sign up or pay for searches

      Courtlistener provides must of the same info
      https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6092769/john-doe-v-snyder/

    • #70297 Reply
      Avatar
      Dewan

      Today is 3-30…any updates? I am a pre 2011 registrant and actually my offence occured prior to 94 but registration was given as part of a plea agreement when brought to light in 2003. The hoops sure have piled up since….Am I coming off?

    • #70412 Reply
      Avatar
      Dewan

      update?

      • #70414 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        @Dewan @All

        ******
        This email is to inform you about a webinar which is being hosted by the ACLU and going to be held this coming Friday at Noon. Since many of us are home, it is a good time to connect and find out what is going on and what we can all do to help, moving forward. We want to mobilize as many people as possible to fight Michigan’s SORA and defeat the legislative proposed revision: HB 5679.

        You are invited to a Zoom webinar.

        When: Apr 3, 2020 12:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)

        Topic: SORA Legal and Legislative Update and Call to Action

        Register in advance for this webinar:

        https://zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_cvyc9sFVSnev4wTR1ViB8A

        Webinar participants are being asked to sign up in advance so that we know where people are calling in from, geographically. Your information will not be used for anything other than direct communication about opportunities to get involved in SORA advocacy. After registering, you will receive a confirmation email containing information about joining the webinar. Just a note that pre-registration is requiring first name, email address & zip code.

        When you receive your confirmation email there will be a link to use on the day of the webinar or, if you prefer, there will be phone numbers listed at the bottom of the email, along with a Webinar ID (149 543 251) that you can use to connect. If you prefer to call and do not want your phone number to be visible to others, enter *67 before typing in the phone number.

        I will be sending out in the next day or two.

    • #70422 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      Might as well let people see just what Michigan is up to, see:

      *** Correct link approved by Admin

      http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2020-HB-5679

    • #70429 Reply
      Avatar
      Michael Thackston

      I called my local police post in niles mi i am pre 2011 and i still had to go in pay my fee this month.

    • #70448 Reply
      Avatar
      Ken

      After a quick and dirty skim of the proposed bill, The best that I can figure is that we’re all going to get hosed on this. Is there someone that can put the proposed bill into plain English?

Viewing 43 reply threads
Reply To: Michigan State Police Turning Away Pre-2011 Registrants
We welcome a lively discussion with all view points provided that they stay on topic - keeping in mind...

  • *You must be 18 or older to comment.
  • *You must check the "I am not a robot" box and follow the recaptcha instructions.
  • *Your submission must be approved by a NARSOL moderator.
  • *Moderating decisions may be subjective.
  • *Comments arguing about political or religious preferences will be deleted.
  • *Excessively long replies will be rejected, without explanation.
  • *Be polite and courteous. This is a public forum.
  • *Do not post in ALL CAPS.
  • *Stay on topic.
  • *Do not post contact information for yourself or another person.
  • *Please enter a name that does not contain links to other websites.

  • *DO NOT POST LINKS TO OTHER WEBSITES
Your information:





<a href="" title="" rel="" target=""> <blockquote cite=""> <code> <pre class=""> <em> <strong> <del datetime="" cite=""> <ins datetime="" cite=""> <ul> <ol start=""> <li> <img src="" border="" alt="" height="" width="">