Guns and sexual offenders: strange bedfellows?

Viewing 21 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • #35663 Reply
      Sandy Rozek
      Sandy Rozek
      Admin

      By Sandy . . . A bill is working its way through Congress for states to honor, or to reciprocate with, the concealed carry gun laws of other states. S
      [See the full post at: Guns and sexual offenders: strange bedfellows?]

    • #35694 Reply
      Avatar
      totally against public registry

      OMG that is great! Maybe Representative Richard Hudson would take our plight to the Capitol. That is the best news I have heard in days

      • #35711 Reply
        Avatar
        Chris

        I like your enthusiasm. But it seems to be misplaced. I don’t believe the article is suggesting that Rep. Hudson, or any other state legislator, is advocating any type of reciprocity on behalf of registered citizens, or even previously registered citizens. We cannot depend on elected officials for help. The courts are our only hope, IMO.

    • #35713 Reply
      Avatar
      no hope

      the cross state concealed needs to be in effect mostly for truck drivers they are constantly attacked and robbed because thieves know that they are not allowed to carry a weapon across state lines.
      as an rso i didn’t lose my rights thanks to a very insightful judge and i can protect myself should a vigilantly come to my door and try and hurt me because of my status.

    • #35707 Reply
      Avatar
      Maestro

      I’ve often wondered what the point is in being a “United” States when each state gets to create their own laws and we are all supposed to just know every law of every state and county within those states because, ya know, “ignorance of the law is not a defense”, which basically translates to: “We need a lame excuse to GET YOU, and this is the best one we could come up with.”

      I think the “ignorance of the law is not a defense” tactic should be challenged til it’s abolished along with the registry. Not even the court judges who stand by the “ignorance of the law” tactic know every law of every state. Spare me.

      • #36411 Reply
        Avatar
        Tim

        “Law” is no longer being written. Law is not typed any longer. Word processing has expanded “Law” creation at an increasing rate to all time maximum levels. Regulations and Burdens associated with principals implementation are costly in both time and cash to the point where businesses LEFT. How many pages of law does a land need?

        Gun laws do not prevent gun crime. Sex registration does not inhibit sexual violence. Victim’s Advocates suggest sex assault is underreported which is absurd. We know through exoneration that innocent persons get reported for child abuse that never happened (TX v Dan & Fran Heller).

    • #35709 Reply
      Avatar
      Donna

      Thank you so much for the article. YES, YES, Yes, this is profound and so completely relavant. There needs to be some changes on this very thing and the sooner the better.

    • #35703 Reply
      Avatar
      Barbara A Parr

      Also,totally against Sex Offender Register .To many first time offenders who are no violence, no contact with Children,etc getting a ‘One size fits all.’Totally believe in it for the rapists,
      violent offenses and so on.

    • #35726 Reply
      Avatar
      Brian

      Sounds like a plan Stan, what states require a person to register when you visit them other then Florida? I see why NARSOL is challenging iml.

      • #35880 Reply
        Sandy Rozek
        Sandy Rozek
        Admin

        A great many states require registrants to register with local authorities after being in the state as a visitor for differing periods of time, some as little as three days. Checking back in with them when leaving the state will usually, we understand, remove the name from that state’s registry, but evidence suggests that Florida does not remove them. Are there others that do not?

        • #36159 Reply
          Avatar
          Brian

          @Sandy
          The only states I know of are NY and Florida, I don’t know of any others that require people on the registry to register when visiting, I want to do a little vacationing once they figure out who’s coming off the registry in pa where I live, as I was never required by the judge to register I have my lawyer looking into it, hope to get some good news soon, as I am an out of state pre SORNA , 2002 registration start date, I believe the last conference call they stayed if your an out of state SO We’re supposed to be priority for removal an it may be to our benefit to get lawyers.

    • #35740 Reply
      Avatar
      SW

      My PO unapologeticly and unsympathetically says it’s our responsibility to know every rule of every town before entering. That also goes for other states and their towns. So much for reciprocity.

      I feel that the difference between a person with a CC permit would be seen as upstanding, and deserving of an easier time. Not for SO’s though. Anything to make our lives worse.

      • #35776 Reply
        Avatar
        Capt Charles Munsey Jr. USN (Ret)

        What PO’s expect of RSO”s they don’t even know themselves. It’s not only impossible to know the rules and ordinances of each state/county/city, it is ridiculous to even think anyone could. The PO’s comment is just a CYA to get them off the hook should one of their ‘flock’ go astray outside the jurisdiction.

    • #35741 Reply
      Avatar
      Jeff

      I wonder how many registered citizens actually used a firearm in their conviction? Has there ever been anything brought up with right to bear arms for vigilantism, etc?

    • #35738 Reply
      Avatar
      freedomwriter

      There are parallels all over the place. Take Opiods…Here is a quote from OK AG Mike Hunter:“When companies create this conspiracy of misinformation and pseudoscience and the result is that they are creating a generation or generations of addicts and that they are in effect causing the deaths of people in our state, they need to be held accountable.”
      Now apply it to sex offenders:
      “When governments create this conspiracy of misinformation and pseudoscience and the result is that they are creating a generation or generations of disenfranchised and that they are in effect causing the deaths of people in our state [via vigilantism], they need to be held accountable.”
      Here is another:
      “Companies who are defendants in this lawsuit have systematically over the last couple of decades defrauded prescribers misrepresented the addictive qualities of opioids. And They did so by setting up entities that look bona fide, but were really just issuing propaganda and loaded studies to try to convince prescribers that opioids were not addictive and the goal there was to the space the medical community created by determining that they wanted pain to be one of the new vital signs that physicians need to treat. So companies saw an opening and the opening was let’s convince prescribers that if we have a time release element that we build into these drugs that they’re not addictive. Well nothing could be further from the truth.”
      As applied to sex offenders:
      “Politicians/Governments who are defendants in this lawsuit have systematically, over the last couple of decades, defrauded Americans, misrepresented the dangerousness of people that commit one sexual offense, often decades ago.. And They did so by using quotes that look bona fide, but were really just propaganda taken out of context and lies to try to convince Americans that sex offenders were extremely dangerous with frightening high rates of recidivism and the goal there was to con the American people and the courts all the way up to the SCOTUS. So politicians saw an opening, and the opening was let’s convince everyone that if we have a sex offender registry we build into the public perception that they’re safe. Well nothing could be further from the truth.” (Cite all statistics here)
      And another:
      “My resolve is that with a multifocus approach that deals with not only public policy recommendations that help us do more holding companies accountable for their misdeeds and making prescribers understand that they have not only a responsibility to their patients as a healer but a responsibility to the public to not be reckless with their prescribing.”
      As applied to sex offenders:
      “My resolve is that with a multifocus approach that deals with not only public policy recommendations that help us do more holding government and law makers accountable for their misdeeds and making them understand that they have a responsibility to their constituents as leaders, a responsibility to the public, to not be reckless with their labeling, lawmaking, and power they hold to destroy lives as young as nine years old and for as long as 80 years or more.”

    • #35746 Reply
      Avatar
      Tim Moore

      States already will honor other states registration laws when they are more strict. You move out of California, other states with shorter registration still honor that lifetime term.

      • #35749 Reply
        Avatar
        Mick

        I guess this may be true in Florida with the most insane laws in the country, but I would actually look up the laws and verify it. One thing for certain — if you don’t live there, they can’t require you to register for jack. Their laws don’t extend across state lines. The sane states say when you move to them, you have to register when you are registered in the state you came from though they may then say you have passed the period. Since the state you came from will transmit them this information, there is no getting around this. Where I am at, there is no law that says “welcome to our state, somehow determine you should be registered based on what criteria?”

    • #35758 Reply
      Avatar
      Terry

      OK, let me make sure I understand here; this guy finished his bit on the registry, traveled to Florida and now they want to re-register him? How can they do that? That’s crazy. I travel all over the US and have NEVER had an issue with travel and have NEVER been told to register in the State I visited and I have been pulled over for speeding on a few occasions in various states. The laws in each state are easily found regarding how long you can be in the state before you have to register. All you have to do is call the State Police Station in that state or look it up on their website. Most, with the exception of a few, require you to register if you are in the state for more than 14 days or 30 days over the course of a year. If you are not trying to slide by the law and just passing through no one cares. If you are on vacation you can see that is would not be difficult to plan well and avoid the BS, however, if you are setting up a new home site and just forgot to let the state know about it, yeah, that could be a problem. I think some people complicate the uncomplicated. There seems to be more to the story that we have not been told and on the Gun issue, as far as I know, if you are a Sex Offender you are a Felon and can’t carry anyway.

      Maybe someday soon these bright, well educated Law Makers will see that their “Knee Jerk” Laws are doing more damage than protecting anyone. Think about it, If you are required to live 1000 feet from a school and you live 1001 feet from that school does that 12″ protect anyone? That 12″ does not stop the criminal from being a criminal. I wonder if the folks in Washington ever asked that question.

      • #35971 Reply
        Avatar
        Jonny Eveyrman

        Not true, you can be required to register for misdemeanors in my state and not lose your gun rights.

        • #35989 Reply
          Avatar
          Terry

          What’s not true about my statement. I said Felon not misdemeanor and you can check this also: http://www.gunlaws.com/misgb.htm

          It appears that certain misdemeanors can’t carry.

    • #35761 Reply
      Avatar
      Saddles

      I hope Sandy monitors this before posting this and it is my letter I intend to send to the president which I have suggest you all do and since this shooting has came up this may be appropriate at this time. I would like to get an opinion.

      If you will recall I have addressed you in a letter a few times over the past few months.. While I know your job can be tough as President of the United states remember God has a plan for you and sure God’s plan will come about. This is only one situation about the gun control and the issues that facing the nation. Yes I am the one that has written a few times that had my encounter with the sex registry as well as others that were caught up via this internet ordeal Now with this ordeal and the gun ordeal should we all say the phrase from the movie “Network” I am mad as hell and I’m not gonna take it anymore.
      While this school endeavor was a very tragic thing it was also a public type episode and taking a human life’s are the most tragic thing upon the face of the earth. While you may have your theories about all this gun control and this sex offender issue I wonder which is worse, someone getting caught up in a internet duping session or someone out in broad daylight blowing away innocent school children.
      Now the bible says “Thy shall not kill” still weapons are sold to one that has money and no one thinks anything of it. I’m sure every dot and tittle is checked before the sale of said weapon but than you also have the sex offender that one has to play a deceitful unbiblical game of opportunity chance thru an internet to entangle one or ensnare one with this opportunity with a spice of sex as a good measure trapping.
      While I can’t see the reasoning in one of these ordeals. While I can see the reasoning in the physical danger of guns and gun control, it all need to be stopped. Guns in the hands of those that people don’t watch out for are the pitfalls one should be looking for. An unruly boy that gets kicked out of school that may or may not have a gun is unpredictable, the same boy that was locked up in jail talking to others about some terror issues or tactics or unruly state can be someone to notice but it seemed unnecessary, or his unruly behavior in those physical endeavors.
      Yes we all have issues but the American people want gun control and even my sister doesn’t like guns. Protection is good in a life threating situation but these encounters don’t usually take place at school and in this day and age a school should be locked down and some type of security be enforced while kids are attending school. Guns are not the answer, protection is. Yes one does have unruly people today and if that’s s the case the teacher should send them home to cool off such as a time out session and give him or her the liberty to come back to school when they can apologize and are in a better frame of mine. Would you not think that would be fair. Expelling isn’t the answer either unless they are too unruly.
      And here the simple sex offender that got caught up in this internet exchange seems no better than someone that actually and physically took lives. While one is predicting the other is a real encounter, so actually how does one balance that? Predicting is one thing actions and thoughts are another.

      • #35789 Reply
        Avatar
        allie

        I think you did a wonderful job writing this letter. You are 100% right on with every word you wrote. You are absolutely correct in saying the internet is nothing but a way to arrest the poor people that are being baited by who knows who to make another arrest and that means a lot more money in the governments pockets. The whole thing is such a joke.

      • #35809 Reply
        Avatar
        Facts shyold matter

        @Saddles

        The survivors of the Parkland school shooting are only experiencing 10% of the FRUSTRATION, HOPELESSNESS AND ANGER that we have been dealing with for 3, 5, 10 and 20+ YEARS!!!

        • #35972 Reply
          Avatar
          Jonny Eveyrman

          It’s not a competition my friend

    • #35760 Reply
      Avatar
      Cary

      Welcome to each state to be on its own United State (hint cross out the s at the end of States.) yet be seprated and yet again connected but seperate. Having diffrent laws in each state on its own United State. Not sure what to think anymore.

    • #35796 Reply
      Avatar
      Kurt

      to Terry, I quote you “There seems to be more to the story that we have not been told and on the Gun issue, as far as I know, if you are a Sex Offender you are a Felon and can’t carry anyway.” now you did say as far as you know so, I will educate you. Not every Sex Offender is a Felon or unable to carry a firearm. I am a Registered Citizen. I have a misdemeanor and I carry on my property. The question comes down to the laws of each State and often, local ordinances where an RSO lives and individual circumstances of their offense (as in a violence, assault, victims involved directly etc. or Clinically determined mentally unfit). There you go brother, you have been educated!

      • #35987 Reply
        Avatar
        Terry

        Reply to – #35796

        Hi Kurt, thanks for the education. There are two items here. On the Gun issue, I did not consider the registered who carry a misdemeanor charge. I personally have not met or heard of a SO in my state that is not a Felon of course I do not have access to that info. But, thanks for the information. The problem seems to be just what you mentioned,

        ” The question comes down to the laws of each State and often, local ordinances where an RSO lives and individual circumstances of their offense ”

        there is not a “Standard” to the laws, they are all over the place and in one state it is one way and in another it is another way. In my State it seems that it’s based on a ” Violent Charge ” but it’s confusing. My point was simply that if you go looking for trouble you’ll find it regardless of the laws and to simply do your homework to avoid the “BS” – trouble when you do travel. International travel is a whole other issue. Let’s hope that you don’t loose your right to carry.

        I found this, you may have seen it: http://www.gunlaws.com/misgb.htm

    • #35795 Reply
      Avatar
      Bernard

      here… have some more… Google is awesome isn’t it? *sarcasm* (search your name while you are at it)

      https://www.pattonandpittman.com/blog/2017/february/traveling-as-a-sex-offender/

      Posted By Patton & Pittman (credit to source)

      If you’re a registered sex offender, you should know your state laws regarding your status very well. However, during the summer you may be traveling or on vacation. If you plan to travel out of state, make sure you’re not breaking any state laws by either leaving your current state or staying a few days in another.
      Registering

      If you plan to travel, make sure your registration date is not coming up. In Tennessee, sex offenders are required to register every year. Nonviolent sex offenders typically report 7 days before or after their birthday. If you plan to travel for your birthday, make sure you register before you go.

      Violent sex offenders must report quarterly, meaning they have to watch the calendar more carefully. Usually, violent sex offenders must report in March, June, September, and December. If you were registered as a violent sex offender, make sure you register on time before leaving on a trip. Failing to register could lead to conviction for a Class E felony, which could result in 1–6 years in prison and a fine of up to $3,000.
      Interstate Travel

      Depending on your status, you might need to inform your registration office before leaving the state, even if you’re just going on vacation. Contact the office before making plans in order to verify the extent of the information they’ll need from you. Those on parole or probation may not be able to leave the state at all, so check with your parole or probation officer before committing to any travel.

      If the law permits you to travel, decide which state (or states) you’d like to visit. Each state is different in how it handles visiting sex offenders. Some states, such as Wisconsin, don’t require appeals to visit. Other states require notification that you are visiting before you head out. States like Nebraska need you to register if you plan on staying longer than 5 days, while Michigan requires registration after 10 days. Since there are no federal guidelines for sex offender travel, check individual state laws.
      International Travel

      Traveling internationally is a bit trickier, but it is possible. Sex offenders are not banned from international travel, but individual countries bar the entry of particular foreign criminal offenders. For example, Canada doesn’t allow people convicted of any felony from entering the country. Additionally, Congress passed H.R. 4573, or the International Megan’s Law to Prevent Demand for Child Sex Trafficking. This law requires that foreign governments be notified when a U.S. citizen convicted of sexual offenses involving a minor plans to travel to their country. Any person whose sex crime history involved children is required to have a marker on their passport identifying them as a sex offender. Look online for the travel policies of the countries you wish to visit before making your plans. Research as much as you can, because if the country denies you entry, you’ll have to turn around and go back home.

      • #35990 Reply
        Avatar
        Terry

        Bernard this is awesome you have done your homework and you know the laws…that is exactly what I was saying and you confirmed it for me. Thank so much. See,with a little research you can know what you can do and cant do….that’s really simple. Happy travels my friend.

    • #35794 Reply
      Avatar
      Bernard

      Terry, lucky you that has been able to travel and not be bothered, but if you have read other’s stories you would have found that it has happened to them, that it does happens even if not to you, and that it is BS!
      here I will hand spoon feed you…

      Florida

      Administrating Agency: Florida Department of Law Enforcement, local law enforcement.
      Timeframe for Registration: Within 48 hours of establishing a residence; being released from the custody, control, or supervision of the Department of Corrections or a private correctional facility; being convicted for a qualifying offense if the offender is not in the custody or control of, or under the supervision of the Department of Corrections or a private correctional facility or changing address.

      Number Registered: 12,324 predators, 58,426 sexual offenders, and 351 juvenile sexual offenders as of 11/1/2017

      Percent Compliance: As of 11/1/2017, 410 registrants have absconded from registration; 409 registrants have absconded from probation; and 2 registrants have absconded from the supervision of the Florida Department of Juvenile Justice.

      • #35988 Reply
        Avatar
        Terry

        Bernard
        First I never said it was BS, I said “TO AVOID” the BS and what you posted on the Florida law is based on someone on Probation or Parole of which I am not nor am I from Florida.. Another point is to do you homework before you travel. I am glad you know your laws and have done your homework. I have too and I have been off paper for over 4 years and travel monthly all over this country and have NEVER had any issues. Yes I have read these stories on here of those having issues and I am sorry for them but the fact is that once you are off paper, off parole /probation and in my state Conditional Release ( which can be 5 years after incarceration ) of which I did not have, you can travel where ever you want with the exception of a Playground, School, Daycare. As far as Florida, I will never go there simply because of the structure of the laws there, but that does not mean that someone from Florida can’t travel where they want after they are released from supervision. Based on what you are saying is appears that after prison in Florida, you can never go anywhere or do any travel at all or are you saying if you are on paper? We are all on the same team here and I simply stated my personal experience and did not down play anyone in any way.. what I said was this: ” If you are on vacation you can see that is would not be difficult to plan well and avoid the BS ” just do your homework before travel and avoid the BS.

    • #35835 Reply
      Avatar
      Margarito Robles

      Mick you said it! “The sane states say when you move to them, you have to register when you are registered in the state you came from though they may then say you have passed the period.”…..The State of Florida’s legislature (and apparently many of its court officials, LEO’s and residents) are not sane.

    • #35937 Reply
      Avatar
      Saddles

      Folks I have to get a laugh about a lot of this ordeal… guns and the sex offender issue… Trump is considering “Red Flagging” anybody and everybody that is considering and unruly. Guys you might as well cut off your right arms, Women don’t get hot flashes, and kids under 18 is out of the question for internet use. Anyone that sticks his finger up at a police officer his fingers will be cut off and kids no playing doctor around the back yard with the neighbors kids.

      I believe that would lock, stock and barrel.. And no drinking beer after 10 PM or showing your “gun” to a neighbor as small talk could backfire on one. That should settle the whole matter… Oh and go to church wearing a bullet proof vest.
      This has been a public service announcement from those that want better public safety. And cowboys don’t take your guns to town.

    • #35939 Reply
      Avatar
      Candice

      This can go badly for some SO who would like to move to a state that does not honor another state’s suppressive laws. Some states treat the incoming SO as one of their own and that person is now under that state’s laws. It needs to be where if you MOVE to the other state, you are under their laws not the previous state’s laws unless you have ‘completed and satisfied’ the laws of the previous state. As did the man in this article. There are good and bad on both sides of this. There needs to be something between. If a concealed carry permit holder is only visiting that state, the permit should be upheld. But if they are moving to that state they should be required to live by that state’s laws.

    • #35941 Reply
      Avatar
      Saddles

      You are so right Candice and even Maestro is right up there. Now Sandy brought this to all of our attention and yes we are all sex offenders. Now how does all this jive with each other…Actions? One was a physical ordeal and the other was a mind bending via the internet or some uncontrollable event. Now this thing about going from state to state and this and that states laws don’t really justify the cause or the means.
      People should be responsible for gun use. Hey would anyone give Otis Campbell a gun as a town drunk might kill for his next bottle. Sure the laws should be the same in every state and sure the sex offender shouldn’t have to go thru his or her ordeal, which ever the case may be. Answer me this…. In the end… Who’s gonna get justice from this Guy that shot those kids in Florida, or maybe it was the one that shot those people in church last year. The answer the Government is gonna get the justice or should those people in Florida take him behind the wood shed.
      And here’s the poor little sex offender grasping for straws that didn’t kill anyone, just got duped up on the internet or touched someone’s daughter and they go ballistic instead of talking and trying to forgive before they get the law involved.
      Sure this ordeal hurts me as I’m sure it does others, its like its not fair. Now I don’t like a lot of things about the law but its the best we have. Now yes we do need change and NARSOL is there to help us all and Sandy and the others have some pretty good articles that make one stop and try to understand all this. Sorry if I get steamed up a bit about these things but it seems everybody is suffering over this on here.

    • #36161 Reply
      Avatar
      Saddles

      I believe were all missing the point with this sex offender thing and this gun control. The main point I all this is “control”. Sure we have certain standards to live by but killing someone isn’t the way to do it. Sure they can say this is for public safety but where was public safety when that person blew away those kids at school?
      Now public safety is good but where do you draw the line. Does one control others by this deceptive device of this internet ordeal.

      Common sense is thou shall not bear false witness. What happens in public is an entirely different matter than getting snagged up thru an internet device. True law enforcement does not and should not set up or lie to snag another with a false underhanded trick such as these endeavors.

      Sex offenders getting snared in these traps are unbiblical and sense those police dedicate their profession to God, they in themselves are breaking God’s laws and commandments.

      Justice without Christian ethics isn’t justice unless one speaks up about all this. We have thousands of people that have been caught up in all this internet endeavor by those police that dupe one in these encounters. Who can justify another? Yes, man is responsible for his “actions” and also to obey the law. Now in these internet encounters who is playing the devil. Would a man of God give one an opportunity such as this? Remember God is not the author of evil no would he want his servants to do evil. Setting one up is evil no matter how one writes the book.

      How can one control Gun laws of a public nature. It is all in the character and the mind of oneself. Yes character goes a long way and character and strength comes from the bible. Man will learn that controlling others isn’t what Gods purpose on this earth is all about. I believe we all should believe God’s lesson’s than man’s don’t you all agree.

Viewing 21 reply threads
Reply To: Guns and sexual offenders: strange bedfellows?
We welcome a lively discussion with all view points provided that they stay on topic - keeping in mind...

  • *You must be 18 or older to comment.
  • *You must check the "I am not a robot" box and follow the recaptcha instructions.
  • *Your submission must be approved by a NARSOL moderator.
  • *Moderating decisions may be subjective.
  • *Comments arguing about political or religious preferences will be deleted.
  • *Excessively long replies will be rejected, without explanation.
  • *Be polite and courteous. This is a public forum.
  • *Do not post in ALL CAPS.
  • *Stay on topic.
  • *Do not post contact information for yourself or another person.
  • *Please enter a name that does not contain links to other websites.

  • *DO NOT POST LINKS TO OTHER WEBSITES
Your information:





<a href="" title="" rel="" target=""> <blockquote cite=""> <code> <pre class=""> <em> <strong> <del datetime="" cite=""> <ins datetime="" cite=""> <ul> <ol start=""> <li> <img src="" border="" alt="" height="" width="">