Michigan State Police Turning Away Pre-2011 Registrants

By Fred . . . Last week it came to NARSOL’s attention that there had been a sudden new development in the Does v. Snyder case. Michigan State Police have decided that at this time they will not be registering anyone whose sexual offense conviction occurred prior to the April 2011 changes in the statute. A copy of the memorandum was faxed to Michigan ACLU. This decision appears to be due to the February 14 court order by District Court Judge Robert Cleland that gives Michigan legislators sixty days to change the law so that it is in compliance with the 2016 ruling by the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals.

This development has created widespread confusion among Michigan registrants as the law has not yet been changed and is still very much in the statutes. It appears that Michigan State Police are giving registrants convicted prior to April 2011 permission to ignore the law while not providing any further information or confirmation that they do not need to register at this time. Also, local sheriff departments are not necessarily bound to the rules and policy changes of the state police and may decide to continue registering pre-2011 registrants.

Michigan ACLU is advising registrants to try to register anyway and, if refused, to try to get something in writing that says they do not need to register at this time. If that is also refused, registrants should take steps to document their visit themselves. Write down the date and time you attempted to register and the name of the sheriff deputy or state trooper you spoke with. While this law is still on the books and no confirmation has been provided, it is important that registrants take steps to protect themselves.

Michigan ACLU also advises that this does not mean pre-2011 registrants are coming off the registry. It merely means that at this time the state police are not registering them when they come in for their quarterly or bi-annually verification. This could change at any time, and pre-2011 registrants may be ordered to resume registering as usual while state legislators revise the law.

We are paying attention to this case and will post updates as new developments are announced. In the meantime, Michigan registrants should do their best to continue following the SORNA law as written.

Help us reach more people by Sharing or Liking this post.

Fred

Fred began volunteering with NARSOL as a gatekeeper and correspondent. Later he became involved with the tech committee to help with the development and maintenance of our many website projects. He devotes much of his time to helping the team ensure that NARSOL's operations are running as smoothly as possible so that we can continue to grow and reach more people.

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    • #69359 Reply
      Avatar
      d

      Sounds like a setup to me. If the law gets changed and still includes them I would not be surprised it they are arrested and charged If the police refuse to give them prof they attempted to register and were denied then i would be twice as worried to be one of these guys. One thing this disaster in my life has taught me is the government does not care about you at all. This is just one big government overreach meant to create a subgroup of citizens with less rights.

      1. Report your address yearly or be punished = compelled speech a Constitutional violation

      2. Determination that you are a Danger and classifying you as such without due process = no Due Processes a constitutional violation

      3. If any of these laws are done to punish or are found to be punitive = Double Jeopardy a constitutional violation

      4. Coming to your house to see if you live there = Illegal search a constitutional violation

      Everything they are doing is against our rights and they know this. They are not doing it for the children they are putting children in the registry now. They might do it for votes, but i believe it is for control, and creating citizens without rights the real government agenda!

    • #69402 Reply
      Avatar
      Dr.

      You want to know what they’re planning?
      Michigan. Gov. Sor ,,,,,,,,,contract with
      Coplogic out of Georgia,

    • #69455 Reply
      Avatar
      Tim in WI

      Turning registrants away while the law still hasn’t actually been rewritten. One more example of selective enforcement by LEO. Sure they are doing the right thing adjusting to courts determination, but 3 years after the first decision & after the blatant lack constitutional integrity of MI congress exposed bear.

      Chicago Illinois had issues of registrants attempting to register but being turned away for other reasons, like staff availability. Turning folks away after they show up willingly to register is a form of affirmative restraint on liberty and examples rule by fiat disposition law enforcement agencies advantage have today.

    • #69487 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      Out of the pan and into the fire, They set it up this way with the intent of pulling a “gotcha”, it’s typical tactics and doesn’t surprise me. Expect arrests of SOs to increase soon.

    • #69521 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      It is VERY clear that the State of Michigan continues to refuse to grant SOs the relief they fought so hard for and won, Constitutionally I might add. When will it actually happen? When will it end? Will we ever see relief? I’m only asking what everyone else wants to know. I know there has been progress, but it seems like one step forward and 3/4 step right back at every turn. Now the State wants a mulligan on the original Snyder case, and we ALL know what that would entail, as well as the outcome.

    • #69564 Reply
      Avatar
      Bob

      Actually not at all shocked that MSP has taken this stance. Once a year every year (couple times twice) they’ve been at my doorstep to “check in” and each and every time well as this very last time the troopers have never once been shy in voicing just how much of a pain and drain on resources this whole registry thing has become to them. One that showed up recently was the best one yet as when I stated my disdain for politics, politicians, current state (more like sate of confusion) of the registry and the affects it was having on us registrants and even more so the LEO’s who are stuck in the middle having no choice but to do the door to door details and enforce laws that even they know don’t work and were long deemed unconstitutional by the courts, he didn’t hesitate in agreeing with me “off the record” with a laugh and several head nods. Ask any reputable LEO (who’s off duty of course) how they feel about the law and they’ll give you an earful and tell you how they themselves don’t even use the public SOR.

    • #69597 Reply
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      DON HENKEN

      In light of the decision reached by the courts in Michigan can or will the National ACLU bring a a similar case on a national level that would effect all registrants in the United States?

    • #69599 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      @Bob I wouldn’t let what your local officers say fool you, 2+ million dollars a year extorted from SOs is a considerable amount of income for the State Police, they aren’t about to let it go without a fight.

    • #69601 Reply
      Avatar
      Don

      Oh man, not this shit again.

      First, Bob is right on point. MSP HATES enforcing that law. Every time I have ever been “checked in on” by a MSP Trooper, the FIRST THING out of their mouth is “I’m very sorry, I don’t like this and the State is making me do it.”

      Yes, this whole thing has been a massive drain on MSP, and local Sheriffs too. They don’t like the law, they cannot understand it, and often times have less of an understanding than an actual Registrant does. I have tutored many a Deputy and Detective on it since I often come into contact with them for professional reasons…I install camera systems at businesses in my free time and I will usually work with them on footage needs. I know just about every Macomb County Deputy and about 1/2 of their detectives.

      Ok, so idiocy control:

      NO, the State is not setting anybody up. The Governor and AG are most likely well aware that the MSP has thrown in the towel on pre-2011 Registrants just to reduce their workload.

      If the Governor and AG are not fully aware, there is NO WAY they are going to consent to any kind of post-turn away round up as many here have speculated on. Not to mention, it would be in Court so fast that it would make your head spin. The ACLU would see to that, and so would I, working with them.

      The most likely outcome for pre-2011 Registrants is they will remain on the Registry, but never be updated again. They might even simply come off the Registry after a time since the information will be progressively out of date. The argument will be “why keep it, if it is no longer accurate?”

      So, PLEASE PLEASE stop the idol speculation and nonsense. What folks are suggesting here is some sort of SOR APOCOLYPSE. Not going to happen. Even if they wanted to (which they don’t) try something as outrageous as this, MI has no way of sending about 30,000 people up the river all at once. We cannot even get our roads fixed right, and Flint still has lead in the water. No money to fix it all. Anybody that thinks MI has the money to prosecute and imprison tens of thousands like this is living in fantasy land.

      Peace out everybody.

    • #69605 Reply
      Avatar
      J. Schultz

      @Don, what makes you right.? I for one don’t agree with your OPINION. It is untrue, in my view, that the state wouldn’t love to lock every last one of us up, forever if possible, and I absolutely definitely believe this is real, not for one second will I ever trust ANY authority or government that openly persecutes innocent citizens. I consider myself to be a political prisoner, my rights ignored, my life destroyed, my safety threatened, my economic and social status less than that of dog. Perhaps you might educate yourself about how and why this little Registration snafu arose in the first place? Ever heard of Does v. Snyder? HOW about reading the Court’s opinion? Or maybe the MI AG brief? I find it infuriating and insulting, almost blasphemous, to read your uninformed incorrect and dangerous narrative. If you want to live with your head stuffed in the mud, see no evil, hear no evil, they wouldn’t ever do that, hey, be my guest, but don’t you for one goddamned second pretend to know what is true or real for the rest of us. You are the one who is delusional, I agree with the rest of us, watch your ass cause they ain’t gonna like losing.

    • #69612 Reply
      Avatar
      patrick

      Here is the biggest issue we have right now, these are all opinions (which we are entitled to) but the bottom line is the MSP is turning away pre 2011 registrants for whatever reason. the other bottom line is this until the law is written and we see something concrete in writing of what to expect as changes going forward we really know NOTHING. with that said can we not try to spread rumors and speculation about the law (yes we have all been patiently waiting I know) because until then we won’t know really anything.

    • #69620 Reply
      Avatar
      Don

      Hey J. Schultz.

      I am one of the Class Action Representatives in Does II. One of 6.

      So, uninformed I am not. I am pretty thoroughly tied into what the ACLU has done, what they are doing, and what their current take is of the Legislature, Governor, and AG.

      Enough said.

    • #69653 Reply
      Avatar
      Charles

      I believe change and waiting patiently is difficult for all classes of people/human beings. Self control right now going forward is where it’s at. Do the job we are all supposed to that will allow our freedom to enjoy life in Michigan, USA or in another country/state etc. Basically life is still yours to make of it what you want. If we choose not to, someone will make the choice for us.
      Our whole system of government is going to have to be reworked into a new SORA system. Not an easy task or quick either.
      Thank you ACLU and those involved pushing for change. Persistence is paying off. I might not be able to do your job so I’ll just do mine. I’m happy with what’s being done so far! I can see the mountain shake, tremble and the ground is moving……its moving!
      I’m sure it’s easier for some to talk about it then to be about it. Don’t forget that was a great Valentines day victory for all of us!!

      Congratulations

    • #69681 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      That’s great and all, but I suggest against any false sense of security, this is more “eye of the storm” than it being done and over with, relief might be short lived. Never rest.

    • #69689 Reply
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      Tim P

      While no one knows the final out come of this issue. I can be fairly sure that arrest will NOT take place if you are a member of the pre April 12, 2011 class in this action. If for some reason a local Police Dept. or Sheriffs Dept. did make an arrest the case would be thrown out once the Judge saw the order from the MSP. And while the MSP can not tell local jurisdictions what to do the memo itself would be proof of the reason the Registered Citizen did not register. (those who’s conviction happen prior to April 12,2011). While the MSP did make many mistakes in the order itself, for example not saying what things are no longer required from post April 12,2011 members of that class. (people who’s conviction happen after April 12,2011) we are confident that once the order is signed and on the record in the court this will be cleared up and that signing could take place today or soon this week. I should note that the order will NOT go into effect for 60 days from the date it is on the record in the court. Of course there is a slim chance the State will start working to rewrite the law and then of course it will have to be constitutional.

      Tim P ACLU of Michigan SOR Specialist

    • #69709 Reply
      Avatar
      Josh

      @Don….I argued with you about the possible outcome on another thread on this site…..this time I’m going to agree with you. My experience with every officer doing my verifications or compliance checks at my residence has told me exactly the same things…..they KNOW it’s bullshit and a waste of time. I do have a question for you though….why do you think we’d remain on the registry after this is resolved? I’m starting to be convinced more strongly everyday that there is no chance they can get a new law done before 60 days is up…..especially given the current crisis and the fact that these legislators can’t possibly have a registry re-write on the top of their to do lists while they’re working via video conferencing from home. I do believe they may attempt something down the road after this virus situation is resolved…..thoughts?

    • #69713 Reply
      Avatar
      BM

      All -IMO this crisis we are facing with Covid may work in our favor.
      1. Probable 60 days will lapse and potentially much longer.
      2. If this does play out past the 60 days, there’s little urgency to fix it since the legislature has court cover and can blame the virus also for inaction.
      3. It gets kicked past the election, which politically is better for us to get the best outcome.

      Anyone else see this angle?

    • #69729 Reply
      Avatar
      Russ

      I went to register today. And was turned away. I’m literally scared shitless right now.

      • #69731 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        You don’t need to be. This whole “Document your visit” thing is just a precaution. Honestly those of us in the know, know this a good thing and that you are basically free of your registering obligations. Unless the legislators find a way to rewrite the law and include you, but from what I am hearing that is very unlikely. If they do, you are not going to be in trouble for being turned away.

    • #69742 Reply
      Avatar
      Bobby S.

      @Fred

      Have you by chance heard if the Judgment was filed on the 13th,? I have heard or been able to find anything on it yet
      I even emailed, Tim from the MI ACLU and have not heard back from him as of yet. I did register on the 2nd at my local cop shop, and they did take my $50, but that was before the memo went out, the one I sent you. I’m just wondering if it was filed on Friday and what the status is now.

      • #69744 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        We don’t usually hear about that. That is just paperwork being signed and filed. We might be able to find it online, if the circuit court maintains a website for documents, but even then, the website still has to be updated and the frequency of that can vary.
        Like Tim P. said, if it wasn’t filed yesterday, it will be this week. That will definitely get done as he has already ruled on the case and will file the judgement in the usual time frame.

    • #69745 Reply
      Avatar
      Josh

      @Fred….somebody with a pacer account reported on ACSOL that there was a one week mutually agreed upon extension approved by judge Cleland. The order is supposed to be entered by no later then 3/20 now…I don’t have a pacer account so no way to verify this but hopefully it answers the question

    • #69757 Reply
      Avatar
      blaek

      uhm they have a bill on the legislator website and it is literaly the opposite of what i think the judge wanted. nothing changed and we are still being forced ex post facto to almost all the 2011 and 2006 rules. I am hoping the ACLU is not ok with this bill.

      • #69760 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        @black,
        Part of the judge’s order is that the legislators work with ACLU in rewriting the law. Whatever you read, I don’t think it means what you think it means. What Bill? What website?

    • #69761 Reply
      Avatar
      blaek

      michigans website for bills introduced yesterday.

      • #69766 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        @black,
        Thank you,
        I am reviewing it and sent it to some others to review.
        What I can tell you so far is that he only introduced it. It hasn’t passed the first hurdle yet.
        Remember that what has been struck down is the residency restrictions, and the requirement to report certain things within a certain amount of time, along with the ex post facto issue. So far I am not seeing any mention of those things in this bill and no mention of proximity to school and parks, ect.. I am still reading, but so far it looks like an attempt to carve out those obvious constitutional violations, but it cannot just ignore the ex post facto clause.

    • #69767 Reply
      Fred
      Fred
      Admin

      Okay I see those things I mentioned above. He is removing some of the vagueness of the current law. I hope to hear from someone else who has better understanding of what this means and who it applies to. I will update this when I know.

    • #69768 Reply
      Avatar
      blaek

      im really hoping judge cleland and the aclu didnt sign off on this. I hope this is not the bill we are waiting for. No way this took this long to do plus it doesnt look like a rewrite of anything.

      • #69770 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        @black
        I confident they didn’t and won’t sign off on it. It was only introduced yesterday. Nobody has read it yet.

    • #69771 Reply
      Avatar
      blaek

      ok i wasnt understanding why someone would try to introduce this bill. After everything the aclu has fought for this couldnt be the final product.

      • #69773 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        @black
        That is what politicians do.
        I just confirmed with our person in ACLU that they are aware of this. It is NOT what they are negotiating for. It hasn’t gotten to committee yet. If it makes it that far ACLU will be there.

    • #69774 Reply
      Avatar
      blaek

      ok thank you for the updates. Hopefully michigan can get their stuff together.

    • #69888 Reply
      Avatar
      Brandon

      I Just seen on pacer there is another extension of March 27th to submit the joint judgment.

    • #69938 Reply
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      Bobby

      @Brandon, Thank you, for the update, but all these extensions being given to the state is getting out of control. Just sign the damn order and start removing pre- 2006-2011 people.

    • #69945 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      And here we go once again, they will any and every excuse in the book to extend, delay, be granted a stay, until it goes their way and we are all kept on the registry. It wouldn’t surprise me if they used the Corona virus as an excuse to continue to enforce these laws that were RULED UNCONSTITUTIONAL NOT ONCE, BUT TWICE now. Anyone keeping score here? Mark my words, our victories will be in name only, the State will make sure of it.

    • #70160 Reply
      Avatar
      Russ

      I just don’t understand this. I was turned away when I went to register at the state police on St. Patrick’s day. I asked for something in writing. He said there is no need for that due to the “fact” that no agency is enforcing the law. Well. The law is still in effect. Meaning I am going to be non-compliant very soon. I called the Lakeview post. The Sgt. I spoke with was very aggressive and rude. And told me I’m supposed to get a letter. Telling me what to do next. And that I am “in limbo” and really didn’t answer any of my very valid concerns. I called the kent county sheriff’s Dept. They said they were still registering individuals. But the office was closed due to this Corona virus. So that has me very worried I’m going to receive a knock at my door. Or an officer is going to show up to my work. To arrest me for a felony for literally doing nothing. And trying to go above and beyond to stay compliant. This is in my opinion a complete mess. And very very dangerous for us.

      • #70163 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        @Russ
        First don’t worry. You will not get a knock on your door.
        The state police manage the registry. The local police might take your information, but the registry is still managed by the state police.
        It is an official order that says pre 2011 registrants do not need to register and non compliance charges cannot be filed. That applies to both state and local police. I have the order that was passed down to the state police, I will upload it and post a link to it shortly. If you are still nervous, you can print it and show it to any police officer who didn’t get the memo.

    • #70167 Reply
      Fred
      Fred
      Admin

      @Russ

      UPDATE AND CLARIFICATION – Enforcement of Michigan Sex Offender Registry Act.
      https://narsol.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/EnforcementMemo.pdf

    • #70170 Reply
      Avatar
      Russ

      Fred. Thanks for all you do.

    • #70172 Reply
      Avatar
      Russ

      Fred you are very knowledgeable with all this. In your opinion. What is your gut feeling on where this whole situation is going to go? It seems like a confusing mess that has the future of alot of individuals just dangling in very thin air. These pre 2011 registrants are in quite particular circumstances. Being convicted as a juvenile back in 2002. I always thought it was highly unconstitutional to take me from 25 years of requirement. To life. And I am not the only one. And I feel for all individuals caught up in this mess. So what should pre 2011 registrants. And juvenile sentenced offenders expect?
      Thanks again Fred.

      • #70178 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        I think it will be very difficult for Michigan lawmakers to rewrite the law in a way that puts pre2011 restraints back under the same rules and restrictions. At this time I don’t see how they can do it without it being struck down. They might try though, but my impression is they are not putting a lot of effort into it.

    • #70191 Reply
      Avatar
      Bobby

      @Fred, I was just wondering if you heard or might possibly know if court was held today in Judge Cleland’s court room. If so was the judgement finally finalized or is it on hold because of covid-19.

    • #70201 Reply
      Avatar
      Brandon

      @Bobby there was a teleconference on Thursday. Something was filed on Friday but for some reason pacer won’t let me read it. Next action on the dockets is memorandum due 3/30

    • #70205 Reply
      Avatar
      Phil Grimes

      Fred, please clarify the April 11, 2011 date in reference to this subject. The letter in the link you posted clearly references the offense occuring prior to this date, but others in this and other forums talk of the conviction date or the date the individual was placed on the registry. My offense occurred in December 2010, however my conviction was in July 2011. Am I part of the group this court decision refers to?

      • #70213 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        @Phil Grimes
        My understanding is that the ruling applies to pre April 12 2011 registrants in Michigan. That should include you if you are in Michigan.

    • #70209 Reply
      Avatar
      Bobby

      @Brandon, Thank you for the update and if you don’t mind me asking what memorandum is on the docket and suppose to be filed on 3/30. Please keep checking your PACER, and keeping us updated. Thank you again for the updates.

    • #70216 Reply
      Avatar
      Brandon

      @Bobby it’s still not downloading for me put but my understanding from I have heard memorandum is just how both sides wish to proceed during coronavirus.

      Anyone can sign up pacer.gov it just shows court records. The case number for this case is 16-13137 easier to find if filter by civil cases.

      If you don’t wish sign up or pay for searches

      Courtlistener provides must of the same info
      https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6092769/john-doe-v-snyder/

    • #70297 Reply
      Avatar
      Dewan

      Today is 3-30…any updates? I am a pre 2011 registrant and actually my offence occured prior to 94 but registration was given as part of a plea agreement when brought to light in 2003. The hoops sure have piled up since….Am I coming off?

    • #70412 Reply
      Avatar
      Dewan

      update?

      • #70414 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        @Dewan @All

        ******
        This email is to inform you about a webinar which is being hosted by the ACLU and going to be held this coming Friday at Noon. Since many of us are home, it is a good time to connect and find out what is going on and what we can all do to help, moving forward. We want to mobilize as many people as possible to fight Michigan’s SORA and defeat the legislative proposed revision: HB 5679.

        You are invited to a Zoom webinar.

        When: Apr 3, 2020 12:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)

        Topic: SORA Legal and Legislative Update and Call to Action

        Register in advance for this webinar:

        https://zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_cvyc9sFVSnev4wTR1ViB8A

        Webinar participants are being asked to sign up in advance so that we know where people are calling in from, geographically. Your information will not be used for anything other than direct communication about opportunities to get involved in SORA advocacy. After registering, you will receive a confirmation email containing information about joining the webinar. Just a note that pre-registration is requiring first name, email address & zip code.

        When you receive your confirmation email there will be a link to use on the day of the webinar or, if you prefer, there will be phone numbers listed at the bottom of the email, along with a Webinar ID (149 543 251) that you can use to connect. If you prefer to call and do not want your phone number to be visible to others, enter *67 before typing in the phone number.

        I will be sending out in the next day or two.

    • #70422 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      Might as well let people see just what Michigan is up to, see:

      *** Correct link approved by Admin

      http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?2020-HB-5679

    • #70429 Reply
      Avatar
      Michael Thackston

      I called my local police post in niles mi i am pre 2011 and i still had to go in pay my fee this month.

    • #70448 Reply
      Avatar
      Ken

      After a quick and dirty skim of the proposed bill, The best that I can figure is that we’re all going to get hosed on this. Is there someone that can put the proposed bill into plain English?

    • #70462 Reply
      Avatar
      Josh

      @Fred…..I like your level headed approach to developments as they happen. That being said, I’d like your opinion on this bill. I’ve read it several times and had my attorney review it as well. My attorney said the bill is a convoluted mess and thinks it was a less then sincere effort to comply with Judge Cleland’s ruling. I’m not a legal mind but from what I can understand of that Bill it goes against much of what needs to be corrected. I understand the ACLU needing to fight this bill on principle but I guess I don’t see why there is real concern here. The bill is still sitting in the judiciary committee. My attorney has a decent relationship with Miriam & the ACLU. You have sources there too apparently. Your assessment of this bill and insight about why the ACLU is so concerned about it, is what I’m asking your opinion for? Thanks in advance….

      • #70468 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        @Josh
        I agree with your attorney. It is a less than sincere attempt to comply with the court orders. It is basically the exact same law with some language revises to clean up the vagueness that was found unconstitutional. The problem for them is that wasn’t the only thing that was found unconstitutional.

        This bill was introduced by a freshman legislator who doesn’t seem to have a good grasp on how much of the original law the courts disagreed with. He is barely scratching the surface on what must be changed. I don’t think ACLU is so worried, but they are prepared to challenge it every step of the way if it gets any traction.

        Bad bills have a way of sailing through the chambers and landing on the Governors desk if nobody outside of the legislature opposes them. So this is not something to scoff at. It needs to be killed or it will probably move.

        If you didn’t notice, there is a conference call Friday afternoon with ACLU on this issue. The information is a few comments above.

    • #70503 Reply
      Avatar
      Mac

      I read the bill. I don’t see how it would pass muster with Judge Cleland.

    • #70574 Reply
      Avatar
      BM

      Fred:

      Was the ACLU conference recorded by chance? I was unable to attend and probably not the only one who is curious.

      Thank you!

      • #70607 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        @BM

        They didn’t say, but if they did record it, I will post it here when it’s available.

        I listened to the call and I found it very encouraging. The ACLU Lawyer spelled out all the reasons why he thinks the new bill that was introduced does not come close to fixing what the court ruled unconstitutional. He seemed to think it is unlikely to pass. He did say that the 60 day deadline will likely be pushed back considerably due to the coronavirus pandemic.

    • #70593 Reply
      Avatar
      Bobby S.

      @all Michigan
      Please correct me if I am wrong, but from what I understood, and the parts I am concerned with along with many others in the same boat as I am is this, all pre 2011 registrants will eventually be removed ,unless your conviction was after 2006 but before 2011, you will still have to follow 2006 amendments, but NOT 2011 amendments.

      Those of us that are pre-2006 and 2011 will come off , and those of us that are even pre-registry, meaning before the registry even existed, will definitely be removed, as soon as the injunction is put into place or a new law is written, either way we have to try and be patient, and we will eventually come of the registry sound about right, again correct me if I misunderstood anything, Thanks in advance.

    • #70614 Reply
      Avatar
      BM

      Fred-

      Do you mind summarizing some of the points? I see Bobby has taken some things he heard and made a comment. Just curious what you thought specifically and if you mind hitting some topics for those who couldn’t attend. I wish I could’ve made it today! My offense date was 91 (juvenile) and plead in 05. So for me the date is extremely important offense vs conviction.

      Thank you!

    • #70667 Reply
      Avatar
      Rex

      Thanks to all of you and the ACLU for all their help in this. I called the Alpena State Police and was told I no longer had to verify. I did not get the officers name. I ask if I needed to pay my $50.00 and he said I no longer had to comply.
      It is all a bit scary.

    • #70666 Reply
      Avatar
      Rex

      I was convicted of attempted aggravated sexual battery in Oct. 1994. from Tennessee. A class C felony, I moved back to Mich May 1999. Mich, turned my class C into a class A making a lifetime registration. I called the Mich. State Police in
      in Alpena Mich on April 1, 2020 and was told by the officer on the phone that I did not have to verify anymore. I did not get his name. Like the rest of you, I am very concerned. I ask if I had to pay my $50.00 and he said I no longer had
      \to verify. How do I get the $50.00 to them? If they do reinstate the registry which I pray they do not, why do they use a tier system instead of using the class of the felony? Thank you all for keeping up on this.

    • #70838 Reply
      Avatar
      BM

      There has been an interim order. Got it in my email from Tim P at ACLU.

      Effectively states:
      The order does the following:
      Law enforcement must immediately stop enforcing registration, verification, school zone violations, and fee violations in connected with Michigan’s sex offender registry law from February 14, 2020 until the COVID-19 crisis has ended. NOTE: this order enjoins the enforcement of the registry but does NOT stop law enforcement from continuing to use the registry.
      The COVID-19 crisis is considered ended:
      When there is no longer an operative federal or state executive order or legislative act declaring a state of emergency, or
      When the Court determines that the conditions giving rise to the need for this Order no longer apply, and
      Registrants are notified of their duties under Michigan’s registry law going forward.
      Within seven (7) days of this Order (April 13, 2020):
      Michigan State Police shall post notice of this Order on their website and other locations where it can be seen widely by registrants.
      The Prosecuting Attorneys Association Coordinating Council must provide notice of this Order to all Michigan’s Prosecuting Attorneys.
      Michigan State Police must provide notice of this Order to the Michigan Association of Chiefs of Police and to the Michigan Sheriffs’ Association, who must send notice to all law enforcement personnel who are responsible for registry enforcement matters.
      The attorneys involved in this case must report to the court every 30 days on the progress of this order.

    • #70853 Reply
      Avatar
      Bobby

      @BM, so is this just a temporary order? to suspend things for now, or is this order also to start removing people from the registry once the Covid-19 emergency order is over. Thank you for the update.

    • #70867 Reply
      Avatar
      Shayne Hodges

      Good morning all. I was convicted in 1997 of attempted CSC 3rd degree I have since been in trouble a few times and now find myself on the registry for life. When I was sentenced in 1997 the judge ordered 25 years my 25 years is up in a couple more years does that mean I’ll stay on the registry until that time is up or will I be removed right away I’m hoping for a miracle thanks everyone.

    • #70877 Reply
      Fred
      Fred
      Admin

      @All

      As some of you are already hearing, yesterday, District Court Judge Robert Cleland issued an order that effectively enjoins enforcement of Michigan’s sex offender registery act until the coronavirus crisis has ended.

      You can read the full order here https://narsol.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Interim-Order-April-6-2020.pdf

      The order does the following:

      1. Law enforcement must immediately stop enforcing registration, verification, school zone violations, and fee violations in connected with Michigan’s sex offender registry law from February 14, 2020 until the COVID-19 crisis has ended. NOTE: this order enjoins the enforcement of the registry but does NOT stop law enforcement from continuing to use the registry.

      2. The COVID-19 crisis is considered ended:
      a.) When there is no longer an operative federal or state executive order or legislative act declaring a state of emergency, or
      b.) When the Court determines that the conditions giving rise to the need for this Order no longer apply, and
      c.) Registrants are notified of their duties under Michigan’s registry law going forward.

      3. Within seven (7) days of this Order (April 13, 2020):
      a.) Michigan State Police shall post notice of this Order on their website and other locations where it can be seen widely by registrants.
      b.) The Prosecuting Attorneys Association Coordinating Council must provide notice of this Order to all Michigan’s Prosecuting Attorneys.
      c.) Michigan State Police must provide notice of this Order to the Michigan Association of Chiefs of Police and to the Michigan Sheriffs’ Association, who must send notice to all law enforcement personnel who are responsible for registry enforcement matters.

      4. The attorneys involved in this case must report to the court every 30 days on the progress of this order.

    • #70884 Reply
      Avatar
      Bobby

      @All, I know I asked this in the other post, but since I’m a Pollock and trying to rap my head around some of the wording in the order, I will ask again and apologize for the repeat. I know it’s a temp order, but in some of the wording like ” thanks and void” and when they say people will be sent letters in the mail to what there duties are after the covid 19 emergency is over. So when all is said and done does the order also mean that all pre-2011 registrants will finally be removed from this unjust registry, while they revise the registry to make it constitutional for all post 2011 registrants or I miss interpreting the order.?. It just sounds to me that after the covid 19 emergency is over, that all pre-2011 registrants will be done with the registry once we are sent letters in the mail. Please correct me if I am wrong and completely miss reading the order. Thank you in advance.

    • #70907 Reply
      Avatar
      Joe

      Fred,

      Do you know if during all of this stuff, if the MSP are supposed to remove the pre-2011 registrants from the registry or are they leaving everyone on the registry for now until a final decision is made?

      If they are supposed to suspend pre-2011 registrants from the registry and you are a pre-2011 registrant and still on the registry, what actions should be taken to be taken off or suspended during this time?

      I look forward to hearing back from you.

      Thank You,

    • #71018 Reply
      Fred
      Fred
      Admin

      @BM
      Here is that recording you were waiting for.

    • #71023 Reply
      Avatar
      Mac

      Thanks Fred, very informative.

    • #71019 Reply
      Avatar
      BM

      @Fred

      Appreciate it! Thank you very much for posting. I’m sure others are curious as well.

    • #71118 Reply
      Avatar
      Dewan

      Thanks Fred!
      What happened with delay order in video post from 4-10? I am pre 2011. Wondering about the latest with covid.

    • #71198 Reply
      Avatar
      Mika

      What would be the process for someone with a case from MI, but living in another state currently. The state is trying to make him be subject to their laws when the case is originally from Michigan. Trying to make him continue reporting he is pre-2011

    • #71205 Reply
      Avatar
      Mac

      @Mika

      What state? I hope it is not Florida. As far as I know you have to comply with the state laws you live in regardless that the conviction was in Michigan.

    • #71388 Reply
      Avatar
      Mika

      @mac, the Carolinas subject to their laws he wouldn’t have been registering in the first place. So im just wondering how this will play out.

    • #71534 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      @ Dewan we might find out soon, Whitmer is starting to ease the quarantine up a bit.

    • #71841 Reply
      Avatar
      Dewan

      Looks like they’re gonna stick us and push it through while under restrictions. Sound accurate?

    • #71867 Reply
      Avatar
      Michael

      I was turned away in March and told to wait for a letter in the mail. I have received nothing so far and I’m getting really nervous. I don’t have any solid proof that I tried to register or of what I was told. My crime was before 2011. I was really hoping I’d get let off early but I knew that was a long shot. I just hope they don’t make it tougher or worse somehow. As the days tick by I feel like I’m just going to get tricked and put back in jail.

    • #71880 Reply
      Avatar
      Ken

      May is my verification month and, I’d have to say I’m getting a bit antsy myself. Nothing in the mail yet… @Fred, would you say we continue to sit on our hands?

    • #71979 Reply
      Avatar
      Rex

      Food for thought. Today, May 6, 2020 at appx. 2.10pm I went to the Michigan state police dept. in Alpena Mich.. with my wife and we talked to an officer named Tucker. I ask if there was any requirements yet to register. His response was ” you do not have to report anymore and if you want to, you can go to any state you want to go to and you do not have to report to any of them. There is nothing they can do because as of now you are not required to verify in this state.”
      He said until this goes to the Mich. supreme court, you are free of having to register anywhere.
      He also said if and when this changes to where we once again have to register, we will all be notified by the state or the state police as to our requirements.
      This is all a bit scary. Thank you Fred for all you are doing. Oh ya, the officer did say anyone convicted in 2011 and
      foreword would still have to verify.
      For the record, I will not be leaving the state until all if this is said and done.

    • #71984 Reply
      Avatar
      Glitterfairy

      @Rex – thanks for sharing. May is my husband’s month to register and we are antsy and anxious feeling like somehow they’ll pull a fast one on us.

      I was contacted today via email by a group of registrants in my area and the ACLU asking to work together after this mornings house judiciary meeting regarding HB 5679. The counties are working together to strategize getting the attention of our legislators.

      Super nervous over here and trying to stay hopeful. There has to be a light….

    • #72036 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      One could say we are well and quite in the eye of the storm right now…

    • #72251 Reply
      Avatar
      Dewan

      How can they be crafting law right now in Michigan that is going to apply to what I did in 1994? Its already been ruled as punitive….how can they do anything to it at all? Isn’t even fixing it ex-post facto?
      Hasn’t the judge ruled that it has been unconstitutional and that our rights were even violated so that it’s null? Yet he is giving them an opportunity to tweak it. Seems to me they already blew it and that any changes they make cannot be applied or made to be applied to me since my punishment has been mete.
      Is there anything to what I am saying after this is done? Is this a valid argument after they tweak my punishment yet again?
      I wish I could get the same second chance to fix what I had done wrong.

    • #72268 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      They have no qualms about taking our fates under their pens, and then sending their mindless enforcers to make sure we are properly dehumanized. All for extra dollars in their pockets and extra votes in their ballots. This stopped being about “public safety” years ago.

    • #72339 Reply
      Avatar
      Tim

      Hello,
      I believe the fear of arrest at the end of this is unwarrated. I too have heard from leos doing my registration that they hate this part of their job, i have also had discussions with neighbors of mine trying to address their questions for me and have found that with patience and total transparency, that people are always willing to give a person a chance once the questions and information they were seeking. Was given. My hats off to all the people involved with gettting us back some sort of life.

    • #72839 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      I was just visited by my county Sheriff for a compliance check. Seems like it’s back to business as usual.

    • #73090 Reply
      Avatar
      Glitterfairy

      I noticed this is the first week HB 5679 is not on the Judiciary’s agenda. Anyone know what’s going on?

      Nervous over here!

    • #73989 Reply
      Avatar
      Frederick Knapp

      I was supposed to check in in May 2020. Due to corna I called first and was told by the Sarge there that I was not required to check in due to the lawsuit and Judges decision, but he told me to check back in August, which is my next time, to confirm everything. The Michigan State Police have always been kind and courteous to me every time I register and I have had no problems with them or the local Police. I truly feel that Michigan will modify the law as to where I never have to register again. My crime was prior to 2011 and almost prior to 2006. I have never had any other crime or even traffic ticket since then and watch myself to ensure this doesn’t happen. I am the statistic, at home, in a safe (for me) area. I am the one of many who committed my assault in my home with a minor I knew. Would this or could this happen again? I hope not. I have the tools and mindset to never do this again, but like many, I am on the registery for life and that is more than an inconvience. That is adding on to the years I did in prison and therapy I did. I know my mistake and I know I was wrong. But should I be prosecuted for life for this, NO.

    • #74272 Reply
      Avatar
      Ken

      I hate to be the bearer of bad news but to be a part of the pre 2011 class in Michigan, your case must have been convicted before that date. They are not basing it off when the offense occurred but when your conviction took place.

    • #74487 Reply
      Avatar
      Jo Jo

      Not what Paul said in the zoom conference and he was one of the main lawyers for the ACLU

    • #74503 Reply
      Avatar
      Rex

      I did attend the zoom meeting Jo-Jo. What did the ACLU lawyer say??

    • #74546 Reply
      Avatar
      Jo Jo

      Rex- Paul said that when you break the law, the punishment is when you broke it not when your conviction is. The reason he gave was , at the time you break the law you are doing so with punishment that is in place for when you do it. So if you get convicted you should have known and accept that punishment. If you are convicted later after the laws have changed, you might not have took the chance to do the crime if you didnt want to do the time once the punishment changed. It made since to me in a technical way

    • #75027 Reply
      Avatar
      Phil

      My public SOR page on the web showed up with a red non-compliance notice on Friday for “failure to verify” . Like others, I have attempted to voluntarily verify and update at the local MSP post, only to be turned away because of their orders from the internal memorandum based on the date of offense. Since this non-compliance “Scarlet A within a Scarlet A” is obviously contrary to the injunction against verification and enforcement during the court case and pandemic, I wonder if this is an overlooked automated process (seeing as how there are over 8,000, or 1 in 5 or 6 registrants in MI non-compliant), or something they think they can use to flout the injunction. I think my only possibility to get this potential felony taken care of is for them to let me verify. Any thoughts from anybody?

      • #75030 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        @Phil
        That is concerning. Let’s not assume anything. Definitely go in and show them this. Take a screenshot of it if you can. I recommend going to the state police, not the Sheriff Dept. can you tell us what year your conviction was?
        If they maintain that you are indeed out of compliance, I recommend giving them the information they need to get you compliant. Then talk to an attorney, even if they indicate they won’t charge you. Do not try explaining to them past what they should already know. That is stuff you tell your attorney.

    • #75055 Reply
      Avatar
      Phil

      My conviction was September 2011, but the MSP internal memo directs them to use the crime commission date, which was December 2010. My last update and verify was November 2019, which I complied with, and the next one due in May 2020. How can I be non-compliant for failure to verify, especially if the MSP won’t let me? The injunction against enforcing the SORA began in February and still continues due to the Whitmer emergency orders.

      • #75058 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        I recommend that you go to the State Police Monday to get this straightened out. It sounds like somebody made a mistake. The Does v Snyder order applies to those convicted prior to July 1 2011. So someone might had decided it doesn’t apply to you. However, even if someone decided that, Judge Cleland’s order that the registry law cannot be enforced due to COVID19 went into effect in early April, your verification month is in May.

        A lot of times they will straighten it up on the spot and you are good. As things are now, there is a lot of potential for confusion and mistakes. So, if you go in as soon as you noticed this, I think you will be okay. I still think you should consider talking to an attorney to be safe after you go in, even if they fix it on the spot. If they refuse to see you or indicate that charges will be filed, definitely see an attorney.

        Non-compliance is a felony. So let’s not take any chances or assume anything. Do your best to find out what is going on and see an attorney if you need to. I hope you will be able to let us know what you learn. This is very concerning.

    • #75214 Reply
      Avatar
      Blessed

      My boyfriend was told
      1. He no longer had to register as it has been over 25 years and the new laws state that he no longer is required, and
      2. During the pandemic we are not allowed in person visits, registration is not required at this time due to the pandemic.
      He did Verify and comply on his last date of 2-2020 before this all started with covid and new laws.
      FAST FORWARD,
      august 2020 we are visiting family out of state and he was almost arrested on the charge of being NON COMPLIENT IN MICHIGAN . This is bogus!!!! We had the paperwork printed straight from the offender site stating registration and verifictions are on hold, as well as the laws stating he is no longer required to register. We went thru hell with this police officer. Also, he is listed as COMPLIENT on the Michigan offender page. The cop then said he would be looking out for us, I feel this is harrassment. any help?

      • #75224 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        @Blessed
        If you are saying that he was almost arrested in Michigan and not the other state you were visiting, was this a local police officer or a state trooper? Many of the local police departments still don’t know what is going on and will try to enforce the registry law. If you are still being harrassed, consult an attorney who can maybe draft a letter to that police department.

        If you are saying he was almost arrested in the state he was visiting, most states don’t care if he doesn’t have to register in his home state. He would still be expected to follow the registry laws in that state simply because he has a past sexual offense conviction.

    • #76098 Reply
      Avatar
      Chris

      I haven’t heard anything in a while about this. And haven’t been able to verify since March. What’s going on and what’s the future for the pre 2011 registrants? Anyone have any clue?

    • #76764 Reply
      Avatar
      RR

      Im witing and wondering too same here nothing since march state of emergency still in effect so untill thats over well know more

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