Federal Judge invalidates parts of Michigan SORA

(WXYZ)

A federal judge has issued a ruling that invalidates portions of Michigan’s Sex Offender Registry Act (SORA) that are unconstitutional.

U.S. District Court Judge Robert Cleland issued the decision on Friday in a lawsuit that argued the SORA was unconstitutional.

Cleland heard oral arguments in Port Huron Federal Court on Feb. 5 based on his previous 2015 ruling and from the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals in 2016 that some provisions of the registry are unconstitutional for some of the 44,000 convicted sex offenders on the public website.

“For several years, registrants have been forced to comply with unconstitutional provisions of SORA. The parties, and this court, expected that the Sixth Circuit’s ruling would spur legislative action, and for some time, it appeared that the legislature was poised to pass a new and comprehensive statute, obviating the need for this opinion. Unfortunately, the legislature was not able to finalize a new registration statute,” a portion of his ruling reads.

According to Cleland, the court will invalidate the portions of the SORA, even though “the court recognizes that its ruling will fracture the existing structure of SORA.”

Cleland wrote that he anticipates the ruling will reginite efforts in Lansing to finalize a new registration statute that will survive constitutional review, as the national model has.

“But until such time as the legislature acts, SORA will be unenforceable against a large portion of registrants and may be enforced only in part against the remaining registrants,” the ruling reads.

“To be clear: SORA will not become unenforceable as of the date of this order. Rather, the holdings in this opinion will become effective and enforceable only after the entry of a final judgment, at the time specified in that final judgment,” according to the ruling.

There is a 60-day window until the judgment will become effective so that the legislature can come up with a new statute.

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  • This topic has 78 replies, 2 voices, and was last updated 1 week ago by AvatarMac.
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    • #68169 Reply
      Avatar
      Dan B

      Unfortunately, the WXYZ broadcast began with noting this change could “remove thousands of PREDATORS from the registry.” [emphasis added] This is so exhausting. I wish people could see how they’ve been brainwashed into believing the registry protects them in ways research has proven aren’t true. It’s been one of the biggest scams in human history.

    • #68172 Reply
      Avatar
      WC_TN

      You can bet your bottom dollar in 60 days the legislature will have a new registry scheme. I hate to be a pessimist but I bet it will be riddled with a lot of the same problems this current registry scheme has and they’ll do all they can to make it worse if possible. Get ready. This whole court process will be repeated.

    • #68176 Reply
      Avatar
      obvious answers

      there will be no solutions nor answers found in a legal system that is organized and overseen by the tyranny you seek to challenge..this willn be a perfect example..in 60 days the legislature will just pass some new draconian scheme exactly mirroring the old one except worse and using different pretty words..Then the cycle starts over. Also watch that the plaintiffs that challenged this last one will be rounded up and harrassed and arrested on trumped up charges as well. Count on it.

    • #68175 Reply
      Avatar
      Mac

      Ok , I am confused. Is the Judges ruling that SORA in unenforceable right now!

      Thanks,

      Mac

    • #68181 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      Couldn’t have said it better myself. This ruling simply invites retaliation by the gangster politicians, and little else.

    • #68180 Reply
      Avatar
      David V C

      Don’t count your vipers before they hatch.
      A similar ruling was done in Ohio were they could not enforce the Adam Walsh Act on Pre-2007 offenders.
      For a short period of time it was retro-actively applied until a man named Bodyke filed a lawsuit that stated the Attorney General cannot hold an Executive Branch and a Judicial Branch at the same time due to ‘Separation of Powers’.
      No new law was re-written and those under Megan’s law returned to their previous status, praise God!!!!

    • #68201 Reply
      Avatar
      Don

      Oh, and one more thing. I don’t know where some of you are getting that the press coverage is negative.

      IT’S NOT.

      The WXYZ report was completely fair and unbiased, in writing and in the video. There was no fear mongering of “thousands of monsters released and now coming for you!” type of reporting at all.

      Stop this nonsense, please. Stop the fear mongering. Stop being your OWN worst enemy. Join the battle. Don’t let others do it for you, and then bitch and complain and fear monger from a “arm chair quarterback” position. Quite frankly, and hopefully the mods don’t delete this part: If I just described your behavior, then you reek of cowardice.

      Oh, and here is something that is very encouraging–during the on air reporting they were taking a poll asking the general public if they thought the law was wrong and needs to be rewritten.

      70% of the general public is in favor of a full rewrite. I suspect a large portion of those same people would be willing to accept dropping this thing completely and leaving the latest ruling in effect, with effect of Law.

      So again, I ask you, STOP. I am one of those people who is directly involved in this battle. If you somehow know more than I do, then so be it. But I will almost guarantee you do not.

    • #68197 Reply
      Avatar
      Don

      For those predicting that the MI Legislature will pass something worse…the ACLU and I are watching. The very second there is an attempt to make something equally draconian or Unconstitutional you can bet that we will have them back in court the SAME DAY with an injunction against enforcement. This is assuming the Governor even signs it. Or did you folks forget that?

      The current Governor and the current Attorney General are of the same opinion as the ACLU.

      Let’s not talk doom and gloom. This is a huge win for common sense, the Rule of Law, and basic human freedoms.

      The only part that still miffs ME, personally, is that I know a number of others on the Registry personally. People who could have stepped up and joined the fight and did not—would not. I even gave them direct ACLU contact info and advised them to tell their story…some of their stories are far worse than what I went through due to these draconian laws. They did not act. They sat back and watched me fight, instead. With their stories, the ruling might have been even more severe and final for MI, but that was a missed opportunity! That is the real problem–US.

    • #68193 Reply
      Avatar
      Don

      I hope there is no retaliation on part of the Legislature, considering I am one of the Class Action Does in Does II!

      I spoke with the ACLU directly yesterday. After 60 days, anyone with a pre-2011 conviction with no subsequent convictions that are considerable registrable are now longer subject to ANY part of the SORA MI law. Enforcement has been 100% enjoined and barred. This includes periodic verification, fees, zones. All of it.

      For those with post 2011 convictions, portions of the law can no longer be enforced, but some of the law is still enforceable and they are subject to many of of the post 2011 changes.

      If the battle is to continue, then so be it. I will fight to the last. I don’t give up.So, if the Legislature decides to do something unwise and pass something Unconstitutional, I say BRING IT ON. I am spoiling for another fight.

    • #68205 Reply
      Avatar
      Glitterfairy

      I believe this is a HUGE step for Michigan. The class action covers my husband from an incident in 2001. I was brought to tears yesterday when the WXYZ article came out. Finally some truly promising news in my eyes.

      60 days in hopes of better days. I’m curious though, since this was taken to a federal court would this include acts from SORNA regarding traveling? We don’t travel at all outside of Michigan because we don’t trust that what we read is up to date and don’t want to find ourselves wrapped up in a federal case just by crossing state lines. Obviously the travel portion with SORNA came into play well after 2001.

      Paul Reingold who worked this case with the ACLU personally helped us back in May 2019 and we reached out to the ACLU to share our story. We will NOT give up on fighting until they make it right!! And if they don’t make it right, my family is prepared to fight ourselves.

      Truth and Justice for all!

    • #68213 Reply
      Fred
      Fred
      Admin
    • #68215 Reply
      Avatar
      WC_TN

      I pray you are right and it is GREAT that the governor is on the same page as the A.G. and the ACLU. You’re smart to watch closely and be ready to pounce the second it’s needed. I hope this is the turning point.

      I have one overriding question: Once the ruling takes effect in 60 days, will this mean that every other state that falls within the 6th Circuit be forced to ditch their exclusion zones, loitering rules, and presence restrictions? Will this ruling paired with the 6th Circuit ruling force the other states within the 6th Circuit to drop those restrictions that were deemed unconstitutional for all classes of registrants? Those restrictions being:

      (a) Provisions Void for Vagueness:
      (1) the prohibition on working within a student safety zone, Mich. Comp. Laws. §§ 28.733–734;
      (2) the prohibition on loitering within a student safety zone, Mich. Comp. Laws. §§ 28.733–734;
      (3) the prohibition on residing within a student safety zone, Mich. Comp. Laws. §§ 28.733, 28.735;
      (4) the requirement to report “[a]ll telephone numbers . . . routinely Case 2:16-cv-13137-RHC-DRG ECF No. 84 used by the individual,” Mich. Comp. Laws.§ 28.727(1)(h);
      (5)the requirement to report “[t]he license plate number, registration number, and description of any motor vehicle, aircraft, or vessel . . . regularly operated by the individual,” Mich. Comp. Laws.§ 28.727(1)(j).
      (b) Provisions Void for Strict Liability:
      (1) under the Due Process Clause of the U.S. Constitution, SORA must be interpreted as incorporating a knowledge requirement.
      (c) Provisions Void under the First Amendment:
      (1) the requirement “to report in person and notify the registering authority . . . immediately after . . . [t]he individual . . . establishes any electronic mail or instant message address, or any other designations used in internet communications or postings,” Mich. Comp. Laws. § 28.725(1)(f);
      (2) the requirement to report “[a]ll telephone numbers . . . routinely used by the individual, Mich. Comp. Laws.§ 28.727(1)(h);
      (3) the requirement to report “[a]ll electronic mail addresses and instant message addresses . . . routinely used by the individual,” Mich. Comp. Laws.§ 28.727(1)(l);
      (4) the retroactive incorporation of the lifetime registration’s requirement to report “[a]ll electronic mail addresses and instant message addresses assigned to the individual . . . and all login names or other identifiers used by the individual when using any electronic mail address or instant messaging system,” Mich. Comp. Laws. § 28.727(1)(i).

      How will this ruling affect all other states within the 6th Circuit?

      • #68217 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        This ruling applies to Michigan only. If other states in the 6th circuit have failed to bring their registry law into compliance, lawsuits will need to be filed in those states.

    • #68218 Reply
      Avatar
      David V C

      Thank you, Don for chiming in.
      A lot of us have gotten so accustomed to negativity and abuse for so long that it is hard not to expect anything else.
      We just watch new law after new law being passed that is aimed right at us and when we do see a HUGE victory like this it’s hard not to imagine some worse outcome.
      These lawmakers, politicians, and sheriffs know that these laws don’t work or protect anyone, and some of them are doing it to fool the public into believing that they are helping to prevent crime and protect people so they can be re-elected, and some are trained haters of those with sex offenses, and some are honestly trying, in vain, to do something about stopping sexual offenses, which unfortunately will never stop until Jesus returns no matter how many laws are made.
      I am hopeful as are others that this all will end.
      The truth is slowly coming out, and since people are trained and brainwashed to hate and despise people with sex offenses, they don’t like it, and neither do the politicians, legislators, etc. because this is such a hot issue among people and some are using it as leverage for notoriety and re-election, but in the end, I believe we will see a great relaxation on these laws-maybe not a total abolition for which we all hope for, but a great relaxation of the stipulations and penalties for which I will be certainly grateful and am already grateful for the progress that has been made.
      Thank you, Don for all your work and care, and all the work and care of everyone involved here at NARSOL, and all the other organizations that are fighting and winning against these unconstitutional laws that are being conjured up daily. Differences ARE being made!

    • #68224 Reply
      Avatar
      T.G

      Fred, my offense occurred in 2001. The Michigan Legislature has 60 days to rewrite a new sex offender law correct? Most likely they will. Do I still have to register? What if I get stopped and arrested by the police for being in a park? The police don’t know the law that it doesn’t apply to me? Won’t this create a lot of confusion for police pre 2006
      and pre 2011 registrants? What a mess!

      • #68229 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        This Judgement does not go into effect until the 60 days are up and there is some confusion on when the 60 days start counting down. My best guess after reading the order is that the judgement will be filed by March 13. Then 60 days after the judgement is filed the ruling will go into affect. So it sounds like the ruling will be in effect by May 13th. Until then Michigan registrants should stay in compliance. It’s just three more months.hang in there.

        Michigan State Police has been ordered to notify all registrants who will be affected by this ruling. I am very confident that you will be among those who receive a notification informing you that Mi-SORA no longer applies to you. Until you receive that letter, you should stay compliant. Don’t take any chances on getting in trouble when you are this close to getting relief. It sounds like everyone should receive their notification by summer.

        The state does have 60 days after the judgement is entered to rewrite the law, but I don’t see how they can rewrite it to apply to pre-2011 registrants. I might be wrong though.

        After you come off the registry, the police won’t have anything to tell them you shouldn’t be in a park. But, if you are not supposed to be in parks, make sure you stay out of them until you are off the registry.

    • #68235 Reply
      Avatar
      Don

      Hello Fred…you are quite correct in your assertion that MI is unlikely to attempt to address pre-2011 convictions this next go around, if there IS a next go around. It is not a given.

      From what I can tell at this point, but will let everyone know the second I know otherwise, any pre-2011 offense that triggered a requirement to be compliant will evaporate in those 60 days time. If you fall into this class, it is unlikely you will face any new laws as introducing them for this particular class (that I fall into a well) will be a huge uphill battle for the state. There are so many precedents and rulings to the contrary of what some Legislators would like to do, that doing it is another story.

      Now, for actual removal from the public website or even complete removal from the Registry, is another matter that I am still pinging the ACLU on. This is taking shape, and the ACLU will have a big hand in what NOTICE is written and sent out to those of us affected. It could be anything from “You don’t need to do anything anymore, but you are still listed. Specific compliance is not necessary, but the public will still be aware” to “You are removed from the Registry since there is no longer a point in keeping you on it”. Don’t know yet.

      Since the days of Schneider, the face of the MI Legislature has changed somewhat. The changes did not start and end with a new governor and AG.

    • #68237 Reply
      Avatar
      Don

      To everyone who said THANKS–you are welcome. I did it not just for myself, but for all the people who are on the Registry and continually subjected to a life without Due Process, and effectively being on Life Time Probation, which any reasonable person would conclude the Registry, along with attendant zoning requirements and other “administrative” requirements most definitely is. Let’s see:

      1. Need to pay a “fee” (I call it a fine)
      2. Need to report “in person”
      3. Cannot do this, and cannot do that
      4. Living in fear of unjust or unreasonable actions by law enforcement

      ….sound like Probation to me, but Probation without end for many. The worst part is they managed to skate it through as some sort of “administrative” law so they could skirt the Due Process issues that are required for Criminal law. That is how they got around it. There are Criminal laws in disguise, make no mistake.

      So, yeah, I had to fight. No choice!

    • #68236 Reply
      Avatar
      Don

      Correct Fred. This ruling applies to MI only for purposes of this law. That said, it is now legal precedent for the 6th circuit and those states affected.

      WHICH MEANS get out there, if you are in the 6th Circuit but not MI, and FIGHT!

      Time for additional lawsuits to capitalize on this win, in neighboring states. The dominoes are falling. We are the ones who have to provide the push. Nobody else will, I can assure you.

    • #68251 Reply
      Avatar
      Hopeful

      As a fellow but newly (2016) registrant I sit in awe of those who stand up for us. I am barely hanging on to the last shred of my former life and this brings me so much hope. As the legislature will undoubtedly and reluctantly start working on changes to the law when or should we be in touch with our representatives? If so, would someone be willing to draft a form letter to help us less educated or eloquent to get started with this contact?

      Thank you to everyone involved!

    • #68259 Reply
      Avatar
      Mac

      Thanks Don.

      Mac

    • #68298 Reply
      Avatar
      Gralphr

      Do you have any idea how this will affect people from other states who move to Michigan? My conviction was in 2000, and I’d gladly move to Michigan is that meant my family not having to deal with the registry any longer.

    • #68329 Reply
      Avatar
      Not a SO

      Great victory for MI hostiges, I mean registrants. Now, will someone, anyone up there in the great state of MI (I use to live in Detroit, hated those winters) please tell the Texas ACLU that it will be okay to attack the Texas registry? The Texas registry is the twin of MI. Same Draconian, persecutive, vengfull laws. Also, I have yet to find someone, anyone to address a previous inquiry concerning the Supreme Court’s statements in an attack on the Alaska registry “Smith v Doe, 538 US @ 101-102”. And to reiterate, the Court stated: 1) “….the act does not require “IN PERSON REPORTING” to a police agency, and 2) those subject to the act are free to live and work where they wish and travel without restriction. Now, my question is, if the Alaska statute did have these restrictions, would the Alaska statute be unconstitutional? Can someone, anyone please shed some illumination of this?

    • #68334 Reply
      Avatar
      Joseph

      Don’t be so sure about that. From the comments I’ve read by the new governor of Michigan, she’s the one pushing this challenge. Therefore, anything that comes to her desk not fixing the problems that she wants fixed will be vetoed. Actually, a veto would be a good thing considering that the court has given the legislature 60 days to rewrite the registry law bringing it into compliance with the constitution. If the legislature squanders its time with bullshit, and it gets vetoed, then the whole thing gets kicked out. Or at least the constitutionally repugnant parts. We shall see when the parties bring their proposed order to the court NLT March 13, 2020

    • #68350 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      “After 60 days, anyone with a pre-2011 conviction with no subsequent convictions that are considerable registrable are now longer subject to ANY part of the SORA MI law.”

      Oh how I wish i could believe that. What about the 2006 Amendments?

    • #68365 Reply
      Avatar
      Mac

      Michigan Republican politician stated today he does not have the time for SO that he, Republicans, have more important things to do. Well, I think I will ask Trump for a pardon.

      Mac

    • #68372 Reply
      Avatar
      Josh

      @Don…..what of the widespread speculation that Michigan will adopt the federal SORNA and roll on as if nothing had occurred at all? That’s the greatest fear of many across several different blogs! You seem incredibly confident that you and the ACLU have the situation well in hand. Miriam Aukerman didn’t want to really address that possibility in her conference call on Monday. She mentioned it in passing but didn’t dwell on it. I think she and the others have opened a horrible can of worms for us! I’m a tier 3 in Michigan and the federal SORNA statute HAS BEEN FOUND CONSTITUTIONAL. That doesn’t mean anything good for me or any other tier 3 registrant. In addition, this class action lawsuit has crippled anybody seeking individual relief via a personal federal lawsuit. It’s starting to appear that the ACLU has possibly done more damage if the legislature reacts reflexively to the complete whipping the judge laid on it…I have a conviction that predates the passage of the original SOR and am only on it due to being on probation when it was enacted….our only recourse MIGHT be to be able to bring suit after the judgement order is issued…..love to hear your thoughts Don!

    • #68513 Reply
      Avatar
      Don

      @Josh:

      Well, you said it yourself. Speculation. Don’t drive yourself into a state of needing Xanax over things that have not occurred yet, and probably won’t.

      MI did not adopt the national SORNA for a reason. They are not about to now. One reason? Despite highway funds tied to the bill, a lot of the Federal SORNA is unfunded. It would cost the state massively to implement it.

      The Governor of MI is not about to sign that kind of legislation either. She has made it pretty clear her issue is the the injustice of the entire scheme–not some technicality in the law that she did not like.

      Everyone keeps forgetting that the MI Legislature does not dictate law. It has to be signed into law by the Governor…and one who does not like the current one let along the federal variation. This is assuming the Legislature actually reacts in a reflexive manner. More speculation.

      You know, it is OK to bring along an umbrella in case of a rainy day. Common sense and all. It is not healthy to drive yourself into early heart failure over the worst possible case scenario type shit here.

      OH…and finally…what makes you think you were any better off with the MI law that got struck down? You are aware that there were going to be continual future changes that would have impacted it and made it just as bad, if not worse, then the Federal SORNA. Correct?

      You do refer to widespread and significant fear and speculation that this will happen, yet I have not seen any such thing online. Can you point out what you are talking about?

      Relax, Josh. Worry about the things you can control–like actively helping to fight injustice if you have not done so already. Donate to the ACLU and NARSOL. VOICE YOUR VIEWS. Don’t cower in a corner. Don’t live in fear in a tiny room hoping nobody takes notice of you.

    • #68530 Reply
      Avatar
      Josh

      @Don…..who said anything about needing a Xanax and who’s hysterical? I’ve followed the comments on this and three other forums and that opinion/possibility is out there. I’ve been subjected to EVERY change and amendment since this thing started. I’ve never see a development go in our favor so if I come off jaded please forgive me. You say that Michigan didn’t adopt federal SORNA? Then what was the tier system that we were all subjected to in 2011. They obviously adopted enough of it to enable them to keep getting that federal money. I’m glad so many of you are hopeful and optimistic but I’m taking a wait and see approach. You think I’m wrong @Don? I hope to God I am but the last 25 years of proof tells me I’m probably not….I have fought for myself legally and I will again if this class action gets resolved.

    • #68647 Reply
      Avatar
      SupportOurConstitution

      Fred and Don…

      What SPECIFICALLY does the Registrant …to whom this applies to within the 6th Circuit…need to do to apply for relief?

      My pen is in hand, sirs..

      • #68649 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        If you are in Michigan, you don’t need to do anything. You will receive a letter once this is sorted out. If you are in another state within the 6th Circuit, I don’t think think you mean apply for relief, unless there is an option to petition for removal from the registry in your state. If that is what you mean, check our Wiki site for information on that: https://narsol.org/dokuwiki. Otherwise, I believe you mean how do you challenge the law in your state. The first thing you should do is make an appointment to talk to a civil rights attorney and show them the Does v. Snyder case and outcome so they know what you are talking about. This site is a useful place to see reports of the progress over the years: https://www.aclumich.org/en/SORA.
        The 6th Circuit ruling applies to all 4 states within the Circuit, but until legal challenges are started, nothing will change. NARSOL has contacts in each of those states that you may like to connect with to find out if something has already been started there. Send us an email by clicking the link at the bottom of the page and request to be connected with your state’s contact person.

    • #68659 Reply
      Avatar
      SupportOurConstitution

      THANK YOU, Fred.

      I am in Southern Ohio and the latter portion of your response applies.

      I do apologize for the lack of clarity in my earlier inquiry.

      God be with us all.

    • #68665 Reply
      Avatar
      SupportOurConstitution

      ” Send us an email by clicking the link at the bottom of the page and request to be connected with your state’s contact person.”- Fred, Admin.

      Email sent, sir, per instruction.

      Awaiting contact.

    • #68888 Reply
      Avatar
      Ann

      @Fred I have a question that I can’t seem to find an answer to. I’m one of the many here in Michigan that is directly affected by this ruling.

      I’m in the process of trying to sell my home here in Michigan. The plan then is for my children and I to move to Indiana.

      So my question is this; when I come off the Hit List here in Michigan, will I have to then register in Indiana? And if my house sells before the ruling goes into affect, would Indiana honor Judge Cleland’s ruling where I’m concerned?

      I’m trying very hard to stay positive here. And I’m refusing to allow the negativity to bring me down.

      • #68891 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        Hello @Ann ,
        Most states don’t care if you came off the registry in one state, they will still require you to register based on your past offense. There is a lawsuit ongoing in the 6th Circuit to change this. Unfortunately, Indiana is not in the 6th Circuit. So, unless the ruling is appealed and heard by the U.S. Supreme Court, any final outcome from that particular case will not be binding in Indiana.
        I recommend that you visit our State Law Wiki to learn what Indiana requires of out of state registrants who relocate there, even if you are no longer a registrant. https://narsol.org/dokuwiki

    • #68909 Reply
      Avatar
      Tim in WI

      @Ann,
      Moving? I think Indiana law is in flux with respect to out of state felons moving in. I would call the Indiana DOJ. Addressing the AGs office directly you’re new obligation can be heard by a judge rather than depending on the Indiana Attorneys General opinion ALONE! Because LAW similarity “of separate jurisdictions” is in question (comparative analysis between MI v IN) YOU ARE ENTITLED to the process.

    • #68908 Reply
      Avatar
      Tim in WI

      When the 2nd circuit’s district court ruled the WI fee (Ex post app.) was retribution ( paying again) a temporary notice of liability relief was sent out to WI registrants.
      It mentioned the order was headed to appeal by Full Second circuit (2011,WI vRamesch). The 2nd disagreed upholding the annual fee as just a civil attempt to ” offset the costs of registration. ”
      I believe Smith V Doe applied the accepted two (2) part test utilizing 1. Intent OR (not and) 2. Effect disqualification.
      IMO, it was the collateral implications concerning ” use” of it that was, as Justice Stevens put it, “…something else afoot.”

      By opting for indenture the lid was off on potential
      “iterations” of machine and gov infrastructure geared toward extended surveillance and as it turns out new forms of affirmative restraint. The first ever time man was indentured not to property real but database machine maintenance. By the current law the need for updates is practically insatiable! The abject normalization of human subservience to benevolent government machine. Just consider how easy it was to accomplish by pushing the right buttons.

    • #68947 Reply
      Avatar
      Dr.

      Just went to the Gratiot county sheriff’s office in Michigan and was refused confirmation of compliance based on the current positions of law makers, they didn’t even want the extortion money,
      I was told that they would make a note that I was there…
      SO for all the naysayers,,,,,
      Something is happening,

      • #68949 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        Yes folks, there has been a new development in Michigan as of today. We are not quite sure what this development is yet and what it means. Is it a temporary hold or a permanent change? We don’t know yet. We plan to discuss it on the call tonight with people who should have a better idea on what Michigan registrants should do and expect. So if you haven’t already, please plan to be on tonight’s call.

        NARSOL IN ACTION: National litigation update

      • #68950 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        @Dr. Did they happen to give you some kind proof of this? Such as a printout of that note they made?

    • #68951 Reply
      Avatar
      Dr.

      @fred,
      no proof, no receipt or proof of my being there Just told they would make a note of me being there ,,,another woman in the office said she would take my money if I was giving it away, that just showed me how professional the Gratiot county sheriff’s office is under the direction of retired state police Doug wright,,,,, I think he just resigned.

    • #68955 Reply
      Avatar
      Dr.

      Just checking on the Mi. Sor and nothing has changed with my status, other than I am listed as active,,,,
      Instead of compliant ?

    • #68977 Reply
      Avatar
      chris

      @fred. Yes I had the same thing happen to me friday. Same exact scenario as dr. I asked for a copy but secretary said she couldnt give me 1 as it was for employees only. Made notes on computer saying I reported. I heard today ACLU stated they thought it was. a temporary issue until new sora gets constructed. Curious to see how long that takes now. Next week probably.

      • #68980 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        @chris
        The law is still in the books. So if you don’t get some kind of confirmation in writing that you don’t need to register, you might want to go to the state police and see if they will give you something. I just don’t see what says you are not out of compliance when you don’t register when you are supposed to. What is stopping them from rounding up people next month? The law is still there. I hope we will learn more about this is in Tonight’s conference call.

    • #69020 Reply
      Avatar
      Dr.

      @fred,
      You understand that the sheriffs office work under the state police in Gratiot county

    • #69019 Reply
      Avatar
      Dr.

      @fred
      Now you see just how screwed up the Michigan state police leaderShip really is,
      Denying a citizen The right to follow the law

      • #69023 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        I think they are trying to follow the court’s order and that they just need to get their procedures worked out. I would almost guarantee that they are acting at the orders of Michigan’s Attorney General.

        We were informed that the sheriff departments do not necessary need to follow the state police’s orders. Some are, some are not.

    • #69026 Reply
      Avatar
      Dr.

      @Fred
      Does anyone know what the state police orders are?

    • #69031 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      So basically it’s now on the whim of each county if they want to enforce the “Unconstitutional”(as ruled in a court of law) SOR or not. What was the point of the ruling again?

    • #69038 Reply
      Avatar
      Dr.

      Thank you for giving everyone a place to vent,
      I have been under gov. Thumb since it started (sor)
      On a thirty day incarceration 4th degree misdemeanor.
      back in 93…..now life ?……. Got involved with a lawyer from Grand Rapids Mi.in 1994
      thought I was helping with a class action,ex post facto I typed hundreds of letters and envelopes for him, couple months later I saw him on the news arrested….Screws are tightening, state police made sor public ……job is gone as soon as that happened. I have been gainfully unemployed / unemployable….. for the last what now 24 years…….I was a hazmat- explosive
      Transport driver ……and I was on a local government council…….and the screws tightened…
      Then to the Aclu I went, yeah I was in the right place but it was get in line might be a minute….
      Narsol was next ,,,,,,
      SO in the last three years I have watched more being done,,,,,than the first 20 ,,,,,,,and it is because of Narsol that I can know what is going on.
      The judge made the ruling,
      The attorney general agree,,
      The governor agree,,,,
      The Michigan state police is the problem!
      All of the illegal activity is in the state police,,,
      (. This is just my opinion )

      So once again thank you NARSOL

    • #69043 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      @Dr. Of course it’s the State police. Pop quiz, what is $50 x 44,000? (give or take a few hundred)

    • #69072 Reply
      Avatar
      Bobby

      I received this email today along with a copy of the Memorandum, but it is in PDF form and I don’t know how to share it with everyone, but here is the email I received from Tim at the MI ACLU.

      HIM: Attached is the memo from the MSP.  The local police are not required to follow it but we hope they do. As of today the MSP is not going to mail anything out to anyone because this is all up in the air.  Also note that this memo and the actions of the Michigan State Police do not remove you from the registry.  We do not know how this will all play out but it is the position of the MSP that they are just putting this issue on hold and will wait to see when and if a new law is written.  

      Respectfully Tim P ACLU of Michigan SOR Specialist 

    • #69125 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      History repeats itself, once again the ruling is simply ignored. Is there in truth no justice? What is the point of laws at all if they only favor the State? This a dark time for humanity.

      • #69129 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        What are you bellyaching about? Who isn’t doing what you think they should be doing? If the state doesn’t get this law in compliance in about 2 months, it’s going to be shut down completely. The state police is already refusing to register pre-2011 registrants. What’s the problem?

    • #69133 Reply
      Avatar
      Tim in WI

      @DR.
      I think the MI state police are not going to enforce the law temporarily. Nothing too unusual really especially with Upper Peninsula cops.
      If new law is made, they’ll follow it. For now I’d keep the registration into disclosure to a minimum. Mostly folks just want to know where you live.
      You mentioned Gratiot so I can tell you my father lives on Pewaubic st. so I do visit time to time. Depending on the changes Michigan makes to law I may move up from WI. He happy you’re in the 6th circuit and not the 2nd as WI is.
      Similar cases with same causes have died there in that court. I think it has much to do with the make up on that court.

    • #69137 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      @Fred 2 months? What happened to March 13th as a deadline? I do apologize, but I have precious little faith in law and government these days, so excuse me if I come off as rather jaded.

      • #69140 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        March 13 isn’t the deadline. That is when the judgement is due. When the judgement is issued, the deadline is 60 days from that date.

    • #69209 Reply
      Avatar
      Ken

      @Fred, I am an RSO living in Lansing, MI. I went to check in last month and everything went smoothly. Paid my fee and came home with the usual paperwork.

      Coincidentally, I have a relative who checked in just today at the local MSP post and he told me he was turned away and, told that They (NO policing agency) is allowed to take action for non-compliance. When he asked specifically about city police, (Lansing), it was reiterated that NO POLICING AGENCY is allowed to take any information, money or even pursue outstanding warrants. When my relative asked for something in writing as proof that he was there to report, he was told that it wasn’t necessary. I guess we all just hang out until something arrives in the mail.

    • #69317 Reply
      Avatar
      Tim

      Fred/ Don,
      The new court ruling is truly something to be considered a positive move HOWEVER , I”m ccurious as to whether or not the ruling judge iis gonna grab them by the throat so to speak if tthat ruling is ignored as has been the case with the prior ruling. It’s all about $$$$$ now with $50.00 a pop now being at stake. Hmmmm. Stranger things have happened so we shall see how this mop will flop. Best wishes

    • #69379 Reply
      Avatar
      Debbie

      Fred
      Has the ACLU been invited into any recent discussions with the parties ordered to work with ACLU to rewrite the SORA as the 13th deadline is fast approaching?

      Thank you for what you and others are doing for our families.

      • #69384 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        The judgement is expected by the 13th, then the state has 60 days after that point to make the necessary changes. ACLU has been involved in the discussions up to this point and I have no reason to think they won’t continue to be. Here is the page where Michigan ACLU posts their updates https://www.aclumich.org/en/SORA. My impression is that they will be very much involved in those discussions.

    • #69396 Reply
      Avatar
      Dr.

      State of Michigan, sor, new contract from coplogic llc
      Posted on ,,,,,,Michigan.gov Sor. Took me to a pdf
      About 101 pages gets interesting around page 45

    • #69403 Reply
      Avatar
      Josh

      Tried that link and got nothing. Maybe moderator will let you provide a link or you can just summarize what’s so interesting on page 45

    • #69406 Reply
      Fred
      Fred
      Admin

      Or you could just tell us what is so interesting about it.

    • #69410 Reply
      Avatar
      Dr.

      Try this?
      State of Michigan department of technology, management, and budget.
      Notice of contract, 190000001014.
      Between state of Michigan and LexisNexis coplogic solutions Inc. Bob Holtgrave. William Madison EVP.
      Som = Simon Baldwin.

      The first 45 pages are legal mumble jumbo , then it is Getting to the parameters of what the state (police ?) are/is looking for ?
      The last date on the contract is 11-1-2019 so I thought it worth offering up for discussion,,,,,,,,,

      Fred look it over,, delete, add, or contact me if you want,,,, just trying to help.

    • #69411 Reply
      Avatar
      Dr.

      Page 87 column 29.0
      The wording auto-tier has me a little concerned ?

    • #69460 Reply
      Avatar
      Mac

      Can’t find the Michigan.gov link for the contract.

      Mac

    • #69464 Reply
      Avatar
      Mac

      I found it! We are paying for it! I do not see anything odd with the contract.

      Mac

    • #69520 Reply
      Avatar
      Dr.

      @mac
      You don’t think an auto-tier system ( artificial intelligence) is wrong?

    • #69534 Reply
      Avatar
      Dr.

      Okay, after reading and reading and re reading,
      Today Friday the 13th of March 2020, the judge will remove all pre- 2011 defendants, unless the state police have a better plan concerning these defendants…
      Then he will give the state police an additional 60 days to fix the registry concerning the 2012 to present.
      If the Michigan state doesn’t fix it,,,,,,, then all of it the whole registry gets scrapped??????????

      • #69536 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        That sounds like fake news. Where did you read that?
        The judgement is due today. The state has 60 days after today to make changes or not.
        And it has nothing to do with the State Police “fixing” the registry. This is on the state legislators.
        Sorry, but everything you said there just sounds made up. There has been no challenges on post 2011 statutes that I know of. Where did you get this information?

    • #69537 Reply
      Avatar
      Dr.

      There was a question mark at the end of my comment I thought it was put in the form of a question.
      So while we have you here,
      What is the judge deciding today???????

      • #69539 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        He already decided. It’s right here in this article. The judgement is due to be entered today. That means the decision is filed and becomes official.

    • #69540 Reply
      Avatar
      Dr.

      Fred
      The state police have nothing to do with fixing the registry ? The state police changed my status from compliant to active ( just like the 11-1-19 coplogic contract says)
      Without legislation action.
      As far as the 2011 to present, doesn’t due process effect the tier system that is currently in place?
      Again these are questions. NOT NEWS.

      You said everything I questioned was made up?
      Good bye.

      • #69542 Reply
        Fred
        Fred
        Admin

        The job to bring the registry in compliance is on the state legislators. I understand it’s confusing. If you can tell us where you go your information, maybe I can help clear it up.

    • #69640 Reply
      Avatar
      Bill

      So did the judges order get filed on the 13th?

    • #69991 Reply
      Avatar
      aurelius

      @Bill Nope, they are delaying it until the State can find a way screw us all over.

    • #70014 Reply
      Avatar
      Mac

      I believe the COVID 19 has but the stop on the new bill. As to screwing us well that remains to be seen. The Judge, Mayor, and AG are supporting a big change.

      I just got back from Florida the SO laws are horrendous!

    • #70020 Reply
      Avatar
      Josh

      Mac….hope you didn’t have to register there…if you did then you’re on 2 registries now and you don’t ever come off of Florida’s even if you don’t live there…..

    • #70031 Reply
      Avatar
      Mac

      @Josh

      I did have to register in FL. The Fl registry is horrendous!

    • #70041 Reply
      Avatar
      Josh

      @Mac….Yeah, it’s pretty heinous down there…I just read an article yesterday about the Destin/Walton newspaper putting all the registrants pictures/info in the newspaper. I went last year and got in and got out before the 3 days was up. Honestly I didn’t go through 25 years of Michigan’s registry with a real shot at getting off just to get placed on Florida’s. I heard FAC was going to challenge the out of state statute that keeps visitors on their registry forever. Did they try to make you get a Florida ID card?

    • #70075 Reply
      Avatar
      Mac

      @Josh

      No FL did not ask me to get an ID. My wife and I go to FL to visit her relatives, we stay for 7 days. So far all has gone well.

    • #70253 Reply
      Avatar
      Mac

      Florida has 73,000 plus SO registered and 43,000 plus of the 73,000 plus do not live in Florida full time. How about that! They bag everyone, get all that money. Many people are left homeless, jobless, and loss of family.

      The Florida Action Committee are workin on getting Florida to drop SO who are at a low risk to reoffend. I wish will can get that done in Michigan.

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