Vander Wall, NCRSOL, challenge state to abandon ill-conceived law

By Sandy . . . NARSOL and its affiliates make a special effort to keep abreast of trends as they pop up in various parts of the country and to evaluate them for the effects they will have on registered citizens. Not many states, for example, have actual state laws mandating Halloween restrictions for registrants, yet this past legislative session in Arkansas saw such legislation being passed in spite of our Arkansas affiliate’s best efforts to thwart it. Which state or states will try this next?

In like manner, not too many states have actual state law restricting the movement and presence of those on the registry in public places. This sort of ban, if it is successfully upheld in North Carolina, could sweep like wildfire into other states, affecting registered men, women, and children from shore to shore.

In 2017, North Carolina lawmakers passed legislation making it illegal for any person on a sexual offense register to attend county or state fairs in North Carolina.

In 2018 North Carolinians for Rational Sexual Offense Laws (NCRSOL) with attorney Paul Dubbeling filed a suit against the state seeking declaratory relief and a permanent injunction against it enforcing this law. NCRSOL v. Stein is presently before U.S. District Court Judge William L. Osteen, Middle District of North Carolina, where it recently withstood, in most part, the state’s Motion to Dismiss. The matter is set for trial on a schedule to be determined at a pre-trial conference set for October 23.

NCRSOL’s press release announcing these actions was released in early October, and requests for statements and interviews from local media came pouring in to NCRSOL’s president and founder – and NARSOL’s board member and vice-chair – Robin Vander Wall.

One point that Robin makes in his interviews is that a legitimate safety concern exists that should be demanding the attention and resources over and above concern for the presence of registered citizens, a concern that has no factual basis in reality.

North Carolina’s Department of Health and Human Services has reported that 124 cases of Legionnaires disease and Pontiac fever were contracted at the Mountain State Fair and are likely linked to a hot tub exhibit at the event. Public safety resources addressing this very real danger are instead being wasted by monitoring the presence of registered persons, says Vander Wall.

“Feel-good” laws like those restricting the presence of registrants in public places do nothing but make the lives of those who have finished their sentences more difficult.

The bottom line is that those who have committed crimes and paid their debts to society can best serve the public good and safety by becoming law-abiding, integrated, contributing societal members, and the perpetual shame of being on the registry, the “scarlet letter” that those on the registry bear, does not promote, encourage, or oftentimes even allow this goal to be reached.

This is a list of the relevant interviews and media exposure, including those linked above.

https://myfox8.com/2019/10/08/nc-organization-pushes-officials-to-allow-registered-sex-offenders-at-state-fair/

https://www.wral.com/nc-organization-calls-for-sex-offenders-to-be-allowed-at-state-fair/18684966/

https://abc11.com/group-wants-to-allow-sex-offenders-at-nc-state-fair/5601303/

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nc/charlotte/news/2019/10/07/group-asks-sheriff-if-sex-offenders-can-come-to-state-fair

https://www.fox46charlotte.com/news/group-calls-for-sex-offenders-to-be-allowed-at-nc-state-fair

https://www.wwaytv3.com/2019/10/08/group-wants-sheriff-to-allow-registered-sex-offenders-at-nc-state-fair/

https://www.cbs17.com/news/nc-group-wants-registered-sex-offenders-allowed-at-state-fair/

https://www.wbtv.com/2019/10/09/nc-group-wants-registered-sex-offenders-allowed-state-fair/

https://www.cbs42.com/news/local/group-in-n-c-wants-registered-sex-offenders-allowed-at-state-fair/

https://www.wccbcharlotte.com/2019/10/08/nc-group-wants-sex-offenders-allowed-at-state-fair/http://www.wilm-tv.com/nc-organization-calls-for-sex-offenders-to-be-allowed-at-state-fair/

https://www.wfmz.com/news/cnn/us-national/nc-group-wants-sex-offenders-allowed-at-st-fair/video_8cabdd17-c437-5506-a951-0d55a1fa77d6.html

https://firstinfreedomdaily.com/should-nc-state-fair-allow-registered-sex-offenders-to-attend/

https://www.reddit.com/r/raleigh/comments/df1fpm/group_wants_to_allow_sex_offenders_to_be_able_to/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSBNCV8Kwd8https://news4sanantonio.com/news/nation-world/group-wants-sex-offenders-to-be-allowed-at-state-fair

https://truecrimedaily.com/2019/10/09/north-carolina-organization-pushes-to-allow-registered-sex-offenders-at-state-fair/

https://foxsanantonio.com/news/nation-world/group-wants-sex-offenders-to-be-allowed-at-state-fair

https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/group-wants-sheriff-to-allow-registered-sex-offenders-at-nc-state-fair.2847641/

https://www.wral.com/carnival-games-put-to-the-test-before-fair-gates-open/18702426/

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article236193618.html

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Sandy Rozek

Sandy is communications director for NARSOL, editor-in-chief of the Digest, and a writer for the Digest and the NARSOL website. Additionally, she participates in updating and managing the website and assisting with a variety of organizational tasks.

This topic contains 25 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by Avatar Ed 6 days, 7 hours ago.

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  • #60539 Reply
    Sandy Rozek
    Sandy Rozek
    Admin

    By Sandy . . . NARSOL and its affiliates make a special effort to keep abreast of trends as they pop up in various parts of the country and to evaluat
    [See the full post at: Vander Wall, NCRSOL, challenge state to abandon ill-conceived law]

  • #60566 Reply
    Avatar
    NoSoyNadie

    Funny thing is that there will be “predators” there, they just won’t be in the registry. There will be drug dealers, pick pockets, and who knows what other nefarious person will be there including the vendors and those who are the “good guys”. Until we realize we do more harm by restricting and not reaching out and helping then we are on a dangerous path where all lose their freedom.

  • #60567 Reply
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    Donna

    When the stupid term “sex offender” gets thrown out of our vocabulary, we’ll all be sooooo much better off. It is one of the biggest, most unjust obstacles to moving forward.

  • #60569 Reply
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    Will Allen

    Frankly, I truly don’t see how any actual Amerikan can think these “laws” of the criminal regime of North Carolina are acceptable at all. Amerika has always been an awful, hateful place and the Registries and these tag-along “laws” are nothing but a continuation of that. Amerika has a complete and full history of doing immoral, awful, idiotic, counterproductive, hateful, and illegal things to the hated group of the day.

    Segregation was well within my lifetime. Remember how cool that was? How all of the “good” people were just so, so outraged that “coloreds” would have the audacity to dream that they could share water fountains with the “good” people? That was so cool, right? But ugh-oh, that’s not PC any longer! So we need a new group of people to hate and force apartheid upon. “People” who support Registries are literally the EXACT “people” who would be fine with segregation, if only they could get away with that still. Hate is their essence and what they are about. They are a huge part of the reason why Amerika is failing.

    It is so far past the time that people start ignoring these Registries and their billion tag-along “laws”. I doubt that anyone really actually cares much about going to these fairs, and I certainly would never spend $1 there given these illegal “laws”, but that is not the point. The point is that this ban is true, true idiocy that is only supported by terrible, anti-American idiots. No person with an actual brain could even fantasize it would be needed or useful.

    So this “law” simply ought to be ignored by everyone. People who live in the area who are listed on the Registries probably should simply not attend, but other than that, I see this ban and the “statements” by the scumbag sheriffs as an invitation to Registered People all over the country to attend this fair. That is the proper moral, American response to their criminal stupidity.

    Wage war on Registry Nazis/Terrorists. Not just every once in a while, but every single day. Don’t not support criminal regimes that have Registries. Do not support their law enforcement criminals. Forget that “if you see something, say something” nonsense. They are corrupt and immoral.

  • #60576 Reply
    Avatar
    JJJJ

    Perfect term “APARTHEID”.

    It is APARTHEID to selectively deny constitutional rights to a hated class of people. (discrimination, jim crow, segregation, separatism. prejudice)

    In my opinion, it is almost time for us to start marching. We need to get 10 or 15 thousand registrants to march on that fair and defy them to use tear gas, pepper spray, batons.

    And when they interview us, we must simply say “I just wanted to go to the state fair” or “I just wanted to go to the beach” or “I just wanted to go to the park” or “I just wanted to go to the library”. and “I am a citizen who paid my taxes.”
    People of ten say that they are intolerant until the poop hits the fan. Then they start to realize how absurd they are being.

    The time is NOW to MARCH!!

    • #60601 Reply
      Avatar
      Jonathan Rackman

      I couldn’t agree more here…. but people are all talk and no action because they don’t want to ‘out’ themselves as an ‘offender’, and experience the ramifications of that in their own lives.

  • #60575 Reply
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    Saddles

    Robin is right in these ill concived laws. I have been doing festivals for15 yrs or more in my state and don’t seem to have any problem. Yes I set up as a vendor at several events during the year. I have to agree with Donna about a lot of this trickery as one may say.

    Protecting and serving is good but does one instill today to protect or induce another? Can anyone prevent or do we all have to be wise and a model citizen as some politicians claim to be Talk about government racketeering in some instances. One can look at all this as true understanding or some diabolical scheme that is induced by this internet age in many cases.

    I’m sure if we were always right about things we all would be a law unto ourselves or who is wiser than an owl or clever as a fox. I am as upset with this internet thing as anyone else would be. Press on NARSOL as we all should not give up the fight.

  • #60573 Reply
    Avatar
    The Criminalized Man

    Will Allen, you have a new fan right here. And North Carolina – didn’t they have enough economic loss when they tried to enact their “bathroom bill”, from the boycotts and all? Back for more already?

  • #60580 Reply
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    Matthew Arnold

    North Carolina has some pretty draconian s.o. laws but this just takes the Cake.

  • #60581 Reply
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    Jim

    North Carolina passed a law that no one on the sex offender registry can go to a county or state fair??? What are these din wits gonna do??? Do a background check on every person entering??? Time to stop being afraid of the scare tactict laws that don’t do any thing but let lawmakers thump their chest and proclaim ” we are saving the amerikan people with BULL S#IT LAWS”. So in short, if your stuck in North Carolina and want to go to the county fair just go.

    • #60586 Reply
      Fred
      Fred
      Admin

      They don’t need to do background checks. All that needs to happen is for someone to point out a registrant they recognize. It has happened before https://narsol.org/2016/11/sex-offender-laws-are-un-american/

      Follow the law.

      • #60587 Reply
        Avatar
        Matthew

        I disagree. Just “follow the law”? African Americans would still be segregated today if they just followed the discrimitory laws that were unjust. Instead they rebelled and earned their freedom. We will never be free….because those that have a voice urge us to just obey and not fight for our rights. We have no Martian Luther kings. If we did, wed be free…..

        • #60599 Reply
          Fred
          Fred
          Admin

          Segregation ended when the courts ruled it unconstitutional. Not because people rebelled. Disobeying the law is a fast way to end up in prison where you will not be able to do anything for our cause.
          If you can organize a legal protest to raise awareness, that would be constructive. Otherwise, follow the law.

        • #60769 Reply
          Avatar
          wihz

          Judges know what’s going on, many unfortunately are contending with laws and legislation that effectively ties their hands, especially when it comes to the falsely accused. District attorneys are always looking to score another term. Prosecutors are always finding the loopholes where a defendant “got away” and serve as fodder to push more bills to patch things up.

          The system has been built to preempt the courts. Stuff like Marsy’s law “victim’s rights” movement pushes the declaration of “victimhood”. Even in incidents where no actual crime is committed, having “probable cause” is enough to strong-arm the case. That’s how they also force the DNA requirement, and then drop to misdemeanor catch-alls failing that. And in those cases an accuser can lie at trial under the protections of a “victim rights advocate” (such as having a support animal to calm them before they take the stand) and be rewarded for scoring the conviction with “constitutionally guaranteed restitution”.

          That’s why DA Mike Ramos pushed for ab 433 “probation notice to victim” in California to try to get that payment before a judge closes the case, as well as other terms of probation.

          And this is the genius of politics: they just pass it on through. Gavin Newsom signed ab 433 while Congress was out of session on October 8. Nobody heard or seen a thing, it’s a process called engrossment. Instead he highlights the other bills he signed, like the one with California schools starting later.

          Probably in many other states sex offender legislation is passing during this whole Trump fiasco and they need all the fodder they can to push the narrative without acknowledgement of this “dirty secret”.

          If my assessment is correct, Newsom is paving the way for Kamala Harris’s bid and being buddies with Ramos she’s probably looking to use Marsy’s law to sway voters. She’s a six-way combo. She’s a non-white California democratic senator AND a former female prosecutor and Attorney General. Ramos is looking to secure his work since he lost his reelection bid last year. And he’s siding with whoever it takes.

          Thankfully most people are seeing Harris for what she is and have exposed her questionable prosecutorial history. And most of the country hates California anyway. But 2 things right now to watch are Marsy’s law and Kamala Harris. Marsy’s law spread to 11 states before Ramos lost last year but his dream is for it to be a constitutional amendment. With Kamala Harris as president…

        • #60630 Reply
          Avatar
          Jim

          When is it time for us to be on the mode of going after the person who spotted you at the fair. When is it time for the Amerikans to be afraid of us? When do WE get a break???? When the fraudulent law makers, group leaders, prosecutors, judges, police and news media decide I can have a life?? I’m very tired of waiting.

  • #60582 Reply
    Avatar
    JJJJ

    March in them…March on them…March on them….MARCH MARCH MARCH MARCH!!!!!!!!

    If you able, CONGREGATE on the NC State Fair!!

    Hell to the oppressors!!!

    Those who would deny another’s God-given rights to FREEDOM must be repudiated! (BY ANY MEANS)!!

    WE PAY TAXES!!!

    WE ARE CITIZENS!!!!

    MAARRCCHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • #60610 Reply
      Avatar
      d

      Registered citizens in this state should picket at the gates. If they want into the fair they can walk past a bunch of government labeled and discriminated against people. Especial if you are a family. What person would not be puzzled by my daddy cannot take me to the fair because of his past record. Or a child holding a sign saying Im not aloud to enter the fair because I’m considered dangerous.

  • #60588 Reply
    Avatar
    Lovecraft

    Robin, ncrsol, and narsol, thanks so much for taking the fight to the powers that be and getting some quality airtime in the process. In the long run this will only empower our cause. The sheriff may not listen, but ultimately the courts will.

  • #60591 Reply
    Avatar
    David

    Are you f@@@@@g kidding me? My girlfriend and I have been planning to go to the fair, which starts on the 17th. Now I find out it would be ILLEGAL for me to go?

    What are they going to do, check my ID, allow me in and THEN arrest me? Or else turn me away at the gate?

    I can imagine the conversation:. “Sorry, honey, I can’t go in. You go ahead and have a good time for both of us. Don’t forget to bring me back some elephant ears.”

    It seems that we’re getting pettier by the minute. Well, if NC (where she lives) won’t take me, I’ll just pick her up and bring her to SC (where I live), and go to the fair here. I’ll make sure to take lots of pictures of us having a great time (and supporting the SC economy) and send them to the NC State Legislature…. along with a piece of my mind.

    Disgusting!!

  • #60592 Reply
    Avatar
    Phil

    I continue to state. Why do we concern ourselves with arguing over the “rules” of the registry in lieu of attacking it directly as the entire idea of a registry must be abolished.

    Attacking the rules just makes more / different rules for politicians to dream up.

    Obolishing the registry will stop them from dreaming up some other sort of registry theamed garbage.

    If all goes as planned, in less then 6 mo I will be moving to a state where I will not have to register & will stop trying to help you people bc I do not see anyone actually fighting it at it’s core to stop it entirely.

    Arguing about the “rules” of the registry only enforces the idea the registry is legally, ethically & morally justifiable.

    It is another form of genocide, which we have gone to war to stop from happening. Yet we allow it on our own soil.

    Stop arguing over the “rules” & attack it directly.

  • #60598 Reply
    Avatar
    WearethePeople

    When will time served be enough. No one else has the amount of restrictions as registrants. Thank you Sandy for keeping us informed, and Thank you Paul for trying to correct this problem. What can we do to help?

  • #60611 Reply
    Avatar
    mut

    seems to me if the targets were communists then states couldnt do this because it would be a bill of attainder.

  • #60627 Reply
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    Stephen H

    NARSOL is moving selectively to end the registry legally. One might think this is unconstitutional, but that’s not what the Supreme Court has said to date. Piece by piece the registry is being dismantled, crumbling in on itself. The best approach is to fight vigorously to not get laws like this thru the legislature with your NARSOL state reps/contacts. Once they are passed as law its a struggle to prove the unconstitutionality of them and have them removed because no legislators wants to be shown to be supportive of registrants. Marching, moving to another state, etc. are all knee jerk reactions that won’t do a thing without a comprehensive plan of legal and legislative measures behind it. We all want this to end, and it will eventually. Remember registries have been around since 1996 or so (23 + years). They won’t disappear until they are proven legally unconstitutional. Robin is doing good things here, sanely and rationally, like we all must do. Hiding is not the answer. Eventually this thing will crumble.

  • #60638 Reply
    Avatar
    Dustin

    Probably wouldn’t matter this year, but I would suggest all NC registrants get their friends and family members to boycott the fair. Eventually, that would encompass everyone in the state.

  • #60673 Reply
    Avatar
    Saddles

    My sister came up to visit me from TN and since I live in VA we went to two festivals this past weekend and no problems. Thing about NC laws is they are a bit too much considering a lot of this Registry business is a bit callous and way overboard in many ways.Anyone can have a potty tongue but the thing is this whole set-up aspect they want to drill into you to make one believe. With many of these restrictions they become a law onto themself.Talk about government. I guess it takes two to tango but how many to do the jitter bugg. The whole principal in a lot of this is a miscarriage of justice as truth and proof is a bit more important.

    Challanges are good but true Justice is the best for all or Has American Justice lost its true value in the case of many of these ordeals. Nothing wrong with going to a state fair or even a festival event. I would say that the registry is a lot of buracratic crap in many ways to hinder one.

  • #60701 Reply
    Avatar
    Ed

    Fred is right, as are a couple other posts I scanned. Fight smart and fight the long war in court. Best thing is to preserve yourself and fight where it matters. Don’t become fodder for the 6 o’clock news, that will do nothing for the cause.

    BTW, it should be clarified that this law as written may have been on the books since 2017, but it is only a clarification (created in an attempt to get around a supreme court ruling which struck down the previous “300 foot law” as “too vague”) of the useless law which has hampered registrants since 2009. This is not about a law that “bans you from the state fair,” rather it bans any and all registrants convicted of crimes against anyone under 16 of being on the premises of any facility that “primarily” caters to minors (another story for another day), and within 300 feet of any facility which contains a place where minors “frequently congregate.” The State Fair is the highest-profile fair in NC, and because its State Fair month, it gets the headline. If you’d gone to the NC Mountain Fair 2 months ago, the same rule applies. If you park in front of a kid’s gym, same rule applies. If you drive past a school, same rule applies. Ridiculous. I remember hearing one ADA on a separate case talking to an attorney in the lobby of the courthouse, saying that “a registrant cannot legally drive through Cumberland county because there is literally some kind of “place intended for minors” within 300 feet of every main roadway. This is how ridiculous this law is. All they did in 2017 was make an extremely weak attempt to keep the law on life support another couple years by adding some “more specific places” until it is finally struck down for being unconstitutional (the very case Robin and team are working on now).

  • #60735 Reply
    Avatar
    Saddles

    Ed its time to take a class action suit against this registry. My PO finely came and saw me today and he mentioned my quote to him when I told him about this sex registry. ” It is what it is until it is what it isn’t”. This catch and snatch by internet inducement is a bit lame. Even those that have actually done their time in jails or prisons is a bit of a double jeapordy. Sure if I had had a few porno pics on my computer I’m sure my outcome would have been different. Maybe Sandy and Robin should go on a talk show with others against a lot of this registry. Preventing evil is good but instilling it in the minds of another is playing with one’s conscience is a bit too much and that is so condemned by even biblical understanding. At times I don’t care what people do but a lot of this is a “seducing witch hunt”.

    This housing thing and this 2 or 3 hundred feet barrier is a bit lame or are we all not using reasoning as we should. Sure we can create the atomic bomb but I wonder who is wise today in all this government stuff or even where is true understanding today. Even in DC its like a circus with this impeachment thing. One party wants to be right and another party wants to counter one’s true understanding. One really wonders if Einstein was really a fruit cake or if true justice prevails for all today or where is God in our country today. I never started out to be perfect or have but being outcasted is a bit of a clash.

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