You are here

NARSOL’S Vander Wall: “I want to be a conduit for change.”

See this at the JLUSA website.

By Robin . . . I am the vice chair of the National Association for Rational Sexual Offense Laws (NARSOL) and the founder and president of Vivante Espero, the foundation that supports it.

Our main focus is on reforming the incredibly onerous and punitive sexual offender registry laws that exist throughout the country.  We are opposed to public registries in any form, but if the tool is going to be used, it should be used in such a way that comports with constitutional restraints, and today, that is not the case.  The registry laws vary from state to state, but one thing they all have in common is the absence of any kind of due process.  Our mission says it all:   “NARSOL envisions effective, fact-based sexual offense laws and policies which promote public safety, safeguard civil liberties, honor human dignity, and offer holistic prevention, healing, and restoration.”

Our strategy is three-fold.  First try to engage the public, which is difficult because of the stigma surrounding people charged with sexual offenses.  But in spite of the stigma, our support has grown since our first national conference in Boston in 2008.    Most of our support comes from family members, spouses, and moms in particular.  These are folks who, if you’d met them before a family member got in trouble, they would have been in favor of the registry and totally supportive of everything it purports to achieve.  But after they deal with this upfront and personal, it’s a totally different reaction.  They see the damage, harm, and destructive force of public registries.  Second and third are a combination of legislative lobbying and litigation.  We go into places where we as a team feel like the restrictions are so onerous that they’re probably low hanging fruit legally speaking.  And we work to build partnerships with other criminal justice reform organizations because unless we place some restrictions on this Pandora’s Box, states will start to use the registration tool to cover other categories of felonies, and that kind of mission creep is very dangerous.

While I was in prison I went through a massive transformation spiritually and practically.  Before prison I never had any concept of social justice and was a self-identified conservative Republican who grew up as a Southern Baptist.  In prison I converted to Catholicism because I saw where social justice fit in and understood Christ’s teaching that whatever you’re doing to the most marginalized man or woman, you’re doing to me.  It was a dramatic, eye-opening experience, and I realized that I wanted to be a conduit for change.  It occurred to me that a lot of skills I developed during my previous life – managing campaigns, being involved in politics, direct mail copy writing, raising a lot of money for candidates — I could use to advocate for fair sexual offense laws.  After my release, I hit the ground running.

I am very pleased and honored to be part of the Leading with Conviction cohort.  I’ve learned a lot and look forward to using the tools and honing my skills to become a more effective leader and to raise up other leaders, because that’s what this is all about.

Editing Note: The original iteration of this profile highlight contained an errant “not” in the second sentence of the second paragraph making it appear as though NARSOL does not oppose public registries. This language has been replaced and the sentence now accurately reflects the position of both NARSOL and the author.

Help us reach more people by Sharing or Liking this post.

Robin Vander Wall

As vice chair of NARSOL, Robin is the managing editor of the Digest, director of marketing, and provides assistance to the webmaster in keeping our websites running smoothly. He also serves as founder and president of Vivante Espero, NARSOL's 501(c)(3) foundation and legal fund.

This topic contains 34 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  Saddles 5 months, 1 week ago.

  • Author
  • #46107 Reply
    Robin Vander Wall
    Robin Vander Wall

    See this at the JLUSA website. By Robin . . . I am the vice chair of the National Association for Rational Sexual Offense Laws (NARSOL) and the founde
    [See the full post at: NARSOL’S Vander Wall: “I want to be a conduit for change.”]

  • #46120 Reply

    Alphonse Casanova

    I’m glad to see that Narsol has been effective in several states across the nation, however I have not seen any support in Connecticut. We know how destructive the registry can be for an individual regarding getting a job forget about it not happening. Loss of friends, dating next to impossible, being looked at by general public as dirt, even worried about being physically hurt by some stranger. The list go’s on and on. God forbid you get pulled by police for anything after checking info on you your treated differently. I was never arrested before had a clean record until this one. I’m on the registry for 20 years i’ll be 87 when i get off it if i live that long.

    • #46264 Reply


      Connecticut does have an organization called CT for One Standard of Justice which is also an affiliate of NARSOL. Our organization is still relatively young but we have done a lot in a short time but there is still much more to do but we can’t do it alone … we need help … so if you want these laws to change … we need your help. We are here to support you and your family but we also need your support so go to our webside to see how you can get involved. At the moment, our new website,, is still being developed but our orginal one,, is still up so you can go to either one and get more information.

  • #46116 Reply


    Thank you so much Robin. Our son will not be released from prison until Oct. of 2020. I am sorry to say that I have virtually fallen apart through this, but have never let our son know how it is, after all, he is the one that has to directly deal with it. His Dad is far more positive than I and that is good for all of us. He will be an advocate when he gets home and I am sure you will hear from him at some point. Without you and people like you there would be very little hope. There are no words to let you know how much you mean to all of us!

    • #46166 Reply
      Robin Vander Wall
      Robin Vander Wall

      Thank you, Donna. I know the challenges families face watching the incredible destruction of a loved one’s life. It’s sickening to the gut, and your burden and pain is, in many respects, far greater than your son’s. I look forward to hearing from him in a short time. 2020 is just around the corner!

  • #46117 Reply

    Cecilia DuVall

    I am the Mother of a “registered sex offender”, and no one I have found yet will listen to our case. My son is 34 and became friends with a 12-year-old. This is where we lose the discussion; end of story. My son is seen as a monster, period. To condense my story; my son has never had any kind of sexual episode with anyone, and is still a virgin. He stupidly responded to the young girl’s flirtations (she appeared older than she was) and my son does not look or act like an adult. He meant no harm; he just didn’t use his head. There was no violence, force, or rape involved, but the parents filed charges.
    He still lives at home with us, but since his assessment to level 3, his life and ours have changed forever, mostly due to the registry. He is a prisoner here. He can’t take karate class anymore, cannot go to a gym, and my daughter lost her dance studio because parents saw her brother’s mug shot on Facebook.
    His level status is solely based on age, not sexual violence. He meant no harm to the young lady, and I am sure she felt no danger from him. He’s a good person who made a bad mistake, but even murderers are given second chances and because of overcrowding are sometimes paroled early. For my son, I am praying for him to be reprieved from the sex registry brand and be able to resume somewhat of a normal life.

    • #46186 Reply

      a man without a country

      Very sorry for your story. Similar to mine in many respects. To me, this type of story is the kind that is hardest to get people to understand. It’s the law of thirds in a way: one third of the people have no experience of what you’re going through and thus cannot understand; one third of the people are like the girl’s mother (or my “victim’s” mother, someone with an axe to grind; and one third of the people are our fellows in here, who know what it’s like to be railroaded and have to be repeatedly bashed by the other two thirds who don’t want to give up their false narrative (namely that SOME tweens and early teens can be quite “forward.”
      If the monitors will allow it, let me direct you to a blog I wrote over in the Tales from the Registry part of the website…
      I hope you can find something in what I’ve written that will help you feel like you’ve got someone who understands and help you keep your feet on the ground instead of being blown away in the tornado.

  • #46136 Reply


    I am disappointed by Robin’s statement that “[w]e are not against having a registry.” I am against having a registry no matter how it is conceived. Constitutional constraints aside, registration has proven to have absolutely no positive correlation with either recidivism or public safety. Registries serve no tangible purpose, and are the result of politicians’ opportunistic exploitation of the public’s fear, ignorance and revulsion.

    NARSOL’s goal needs to be the elimination of all registries, with the tactical understanding that abolishing registries can happen only slowly. I understand the necessity to settle for “half a loaf” in obtaining incremental steps; but eyes must remain firmly fixed on the whole loaf.

    • #46167 Reply
      Robin Vander Wall
      Robin Vander Wall

      Thank you, Ed. The sentence you are referring to has been corrected. It should have never contained the word “not.” I regret the misapprehension. You can rest assured that I advocate for the total eradication of public registries. And so does NARSOL.

  • #46137 Reply


    I was a level 1 registered sex offender in Washington state not even on the internet. I was released from registration after 10 years of no offenses against another person. Hmmm, my wife wanted to move back to home in Florida, So we did. Now I’m finding out that I am supposed to register here, and be on the internet. So I guess even though one place says my punishment is over, another can impose that punishment even though my crime was in another state. Should have just committed murder, at least my punishment would have been over when I was released. 🙁

    • #46160 Reply

      totally against public registry

      Craig, I am so sorry that you and your wife have to go through it again.

      I agree with the person before you, Ed, said about keeping the mission of eventually obliterating the registry once and for all. The REGISTRY is why everyone is having so much trouble in life for….THAT should be the goal….to do away with the registry.

      • #46171 Reply
        Robin Vander Wall
        Robin Vander Wall

        It is my goal and the goal of NARSOL to eradicate all public registries.

  • #46139 Reply


    The registry needs to be abolished. Not reformed. There are no other convictions that are adjudicated in this manner. It is unconstitutional. Reform is like putting lipstick on a pig. It is still a pig. By conceding that the registry just needs to be reformed and not abolished is like saying you will use duct tape to fix something that is worthless rather than just throw it away. The registry has in studies has shown NO evidence that it does what it purports to do.

    • #46168 Reply
      Robin Vander Wall
      Robin Vander Wall

      You are absolutely right!

  • #46140 Reply



    I think you’re a great representative, and Im thankful for the work that you do for all of us and NARSOL.

    Coincidentally, I too grew up a Southern Baptist and am able to relate. I frankly am no longer involved with any church. At the time of my charge, even before a conviction, my preacher refused to speak with me in spite of many of my requests. It pretty much, turned me sour against organized religion. I still believe in God, however.

    Truth is though , I don’t really know your story Robin. I do know mine though; I cant fix or repair it, I cant erase it, and I can apparently never make up for it regardless of how much I would like to; looks like I will have to continue paying for it forever. Seems no one believes there exists any restitution or method that our offenses can be settled. That to me, seems, the core of the issue. Hopefully, someday, that notion will change.

    I wish you luck, peace, and success. Thank you for all that you do.

    • #46169 Reply
      Robin Vander Wall
      Robin Vander Wall

      Thank you, Glen.

    • #46174 Reply


      Glenn, I totally agree that Robin is a great representative. I applaud his courage for “coming out of the sex offender closet” and being a public face for NARSOL. After being vilified in the courts and ostracized by most, it is easy for us to retreat to the shadows. I’m working on that myself, and hope I can contribute.

      Like you, I’ve reconciled with God, which is most important. I was able to get in touch with my Catholic roots when I landed in a federal prison (Elkton) with a full-time priest and dedicated volunteers.

      God bless, Ed.

      • #46362 Reply


        Thanks Ed. It’s been a hard road getting back to God – just being honest. From pastors to churches declining to help or ostracizing its been trying. But, in retrospect, I’ve found I don’t really need a middleman or a church. I won’t spend much time here talking about it because I know this isn’t the place and there are rules. I’ll just say thank you, and it’s been quite a journey and an awakening in that regard. But… I’m feeling much better now lol.

  • #46150 Reply


    Thanks for all you do. It is because of people like you as well as a host of others working for appropriate change we can see dramatic victories be it ever so infrequent. In Missouri SB655 was just passed into law and went into effect August 28th which changed the “registered for life automatically” law to a 3 tier system allowing tier 1, 2 and adjudicated delinquents tier 3, hope of some day being removed from the registry.
    May God bless richly you for all your efforts

    • #46170 Reply
      Robin Vander Wall
      Robin Vander Wall

      Thank you for your kind words and support. The Lord be with you.

  • #46153 Reply


    I am in full agreement with your agenda. I oppose the registry, and have never seen it as a benefit to anyone. Society as a whole can never convince anyone that it saved one person from sexual assault… or any assault for that matter. The FACTs do not lie. I challenge anyone to Google or research this FACT for themselves. Only people lie. Why should we as tax payers be forced to support this program (Sex Offender Registry- SOR) that does little more than identify people convicted of an offense that was brought into a court of law where a story was created by people who could care less if the evidence was real or not, that a crime actually ever occurred or not. Our justice system preys on drama of any form. People do not have the resources or ability to prove their innocence, and this is a true hinderance in honesty. Let’s all agree, everyone identified as a sex offender is guilty! OK everyone is guilty as charged. The sex offender registry has never stopped it from happening. Why do we waste billions of dollars by allowing our legislation to put the sex offender registry in place? At best, the sex offender registry takes up a place on the internet for people who have nothing better to do, than search out other people they need to make themselves feel good about the non-marital affairs they have, the promiscuous lifestyles they live, and the immorality they live by. Ouch! Good morally conservative people don’t have time for that kind of nonsense. Only drama seekers. Honestly, who benefits in any rational way by the tragedies of offenses that may or may not have occurred based on the sex offender registry. The offender doesn’t. The victim doesn’t. It is a constant reminder to the victim and the registrant. Nothing more. The registry offends the innocent (victim) and the accused alike. This goes beyond the registry to all family members, associates, friends and colleges of the victim and offender. The stigma, prejudice, and injustice the sex offender registry has and continues to create, is not equality of life and liberty to everyone associated by it or through it. Abolishing this atrocity is freedom, equality of life, and justice for all associated by it. We as a people and nation are above this, and need to stand up for the rights of everyone. Any other offense regardless of aggravation or nature don’t carry the weight in severity of penalty beyond prison. Something is gravely wrong with this point of view. Wrong is wrong. Once someone has paid society’s debt for violation of any offense. Restoration as a citizen with full capacity to be just that is justice served.

  • #46172 Reply

    Lonn a Romero

    What is the best thing I can do to help change the laws?

  • #46176 Reply


    Guys and gals come on give Robin a break. We all go thru trials and tribulations in life. If one is married they go thru this with their son’s or daughters at times. For anyone coming out of prison doing a conversion to a different denomination and having his eyes open well something one has to go thru the flames of hell to understand about all this type of ordeal. It is not like some simple assult or drunk driving offense. I’m going thru a veery simple ordeal but intimidation does get to the best of people and they don’t want these things in court as most are a no contest game if you want to plea about it. Facts can be misleading can’t they.

    Now one of you guys up there said the registry should be abolished, one would have to do some rashional thinking on that. A conduit for change and yes that is what all of us in all states should be imspired to do. If we wanted the registry to be abolished or reformed what would you want it to be called.. A no tresspassing registry or a don’t have a filthy in congress registry or one could even go farther than that with a no one that does the hanky panky registry according to the blue book of law.

    As I mentioned in another post a lot of us got sucked into a lot of this mess but than again a lot of us didn’t. I guess before the sex registry a rapist was a rapist and could still work anywhere they wanted to without discrimination. Even Glen and some of you others mentioned that. The main goal of any organization is to be positive and strive. Religon or denomination doesn’t matter as everyone can get up in the air on that , but its about true principals and I hope its not in the polices’ little black book about talking to fake moon maidens.

  • #46180 Reply


    Thank you Robin for what you are doing.

  • #46187 Reply


    We live in Northampton county pa. Nothing is ever mentioned about the state of Pa. changing anything. Please let us know what if anything is changing in this state. Thank you.

  • #46188 Reply


    Hello, first I would like to say Thank You for those who are working on fixing the registration law, but I found another way but I need help from everyone who is willing to help. Here it is, they made most of these claiming because of recidivism well I found out that every state including the federal government have had studies done on recidivism rates and as of right now I have 5 U.S. States recidivism study and 1 from the federal government and all of the studies I have show recidivism rates below 5% and if we get all of the studies from all U.S. states and they will show recidivism rates below 5% then that being true then present this to a lawyer like Janice to show as evidence that recidivism rates are below 5% and that means every state knew this and didn’t do anything, so have it presented to the 10th circuit judges because it will be non-refutable evidence and they have to take down the registration law because they claim because of high recidivism rates is why they have these laws but by using there own studies that shows recidivism rates below 5% we can take down these laws.

  • #46189 Reply

    Timothy DA Lawver

    Just win baby!

  • #46191 Reply


    Robin, I wish you hadn’t of posted my comment, because I was wrong and you were right. Course I have said I’d rather be wrong on here than right. I was thrown off a bit by the word reforming the punitive sex offender laws. Now how can anyone reform something that is already formed? Almost like a pandora’s box like you have said. but even the riddle of the sphinx was solved to an extent.

    Sure I wish they had something like this JLUSA thing back in the late 70’s when I was studying my chriminal Justice Courses but I lost interest after a two year study and decided to venture other avenues
    Now prisons are overcrowded and they were in the 70’s also but now with computers and this sex offender issue its a maze of terror as anyone, and one doesn’t care if your a congressman or Precher or just the average person or teenager, one can get into an ordeal like this ordeal.

    Course I don’t mind what police do, but I did mind the way they do it. In many of these ordeals I just wonder who’s authority they are going above which takes advantage of a lot of people. Yes that will cause a downfall to a lot of this sex offender issues. I’m sure a lot on here will agree to that. Guess we all should go back to the old movies and watch ” The spy who loved me” and “All the presidents men” and than found out if truth stranger than fiction. Could one really say all this is under a guise of public safety.

    To give one an example of how these laws ot “Balloon laws” are bent out of shape image a balloon animal that you can twist it in to form or reform into all shapes and each twist or shape is a law or restriction. Yes congress can take pride in coming up with that law or restriction to disadvantage one. Now imagine law enforcement wanting to get another feather in his or her cap. Is one really enforcing public safety or just being Salient in this angle with the tool of sex as the common denomatior in a lot of this punitive mess. Thought provoking isn’t it.

  • #46201 Reply


    Very well written Robin! Looking back to when all this started to happen with my grandson, us older folks all thought he would get a slap on the wrist. Meaning a fine, what the SOL’s have done is turn consensual relationships into sex crimes. This is for doing what I would say was normal when I grew up. The thing that make it a crime now days is that they have an age factor, and lot of other things rolled up in one, and we call it RAPE. They don’t look at the facts or listen to what truly happened. Everyone matures differently it is not an age, it is growth hormones as well as sex hormones. This along with other things. It use to be where you lived, and who you ran around with. The sex hormones do not just happen to the fellows, the females actually mature before the boys. That is what makes everyone unique. What I have noticed is how the people high up have influence the younger people to think that this is a crime. It is not sex protection classes anymore, it is rape classes!

  • #46242 Reply


    Saddles: I am the one who said it in this forum to “Abolish the Sex Offender Registry”. What would I want it to be called? Abolished-Repealed. You might call it the Emancipation Proclamation. I think well beyond the trees. I do see the forest. But beating out these words on a keyboard will not change anything. The Blacks Protested. The Homosexuals and Transgenders Protested. We are all people. Strength in numbers. Doing it the legal way is the right way. With nearly one-million people across this nation in every district of the federal and state courts on the sex offender registry, and all of the families, and associates of the people on the sex offender registry, Don’t you think it is viable to go to capital hill in our states and Washington, and petition for redress of grievance? With all of these attached people, how much money could we accumulate for legal representation in the court system and win. The registry makes it easy to locate the offended. (offenders). Use the registry to acquire petitioners and financial support. It is public information… Most citizens in our country could care less about the Registry. The only ones who care is the police, and people associated to it. Of course, the companies like truth and others for background checks make a buck off of it, but most people could care less. Of course, the people on it don’t deserve that stigma, or drama if they are doing what society expects. But honestly, we can pass anything positive or negative as long as we allege it is to protect the women and the children. Even if it protects no one. It gets votes, and the carrot before the donkey (politician) supports anything that acquires votes. Watch your tv, and look at the mistreated dog commercial, or the starving children commercial. It pulls at the reigns of our hearts. However, the people ( sex offender registrants) sleeping under bridges, not going to their children’s school functions, or picking them up at the baby sitter, or participating in their lives as fathers and mothers don’t seem to matter. Really! I simply want to support abolishing it, and believe the means justify the ends. I still believe in our country, and love everything about it…when everyone is treated equal as the constitution was enacted.

  • #46266 Reply


    Actually Tony you have a good point and a redress of grivance does have a honorable way of showing proof & true justice. While one can base their actions on moral grounds or any grounds they want, These ordeals leave a moral conflict of interest which is dirty in itself. Here you have a police officer playing a teenage hooker and if you listen carefully one can tell how they use this ruse to con one into meeting. Teenagers don’t even do that right off the bat. I agree about abolishing a thing gray line of a lot of this malice registry as it only brings heartache to others by these greedy ordeals. One could also go with the adult chat sites vs teenage chat sites and who is caught up there but that woudln’t even work to justify anything.

    Whether one has his or her belief’s or belief in government in these situations, where does the moral belief and understanding balance out in the scales of Justice? Sure one might go on religion but thats sort out the door in this day and age of Government. They don’t even recognize their God or where is moral ethics today. Caught up in some computer “Catch 22” ordal. One has to look at some of this sex registry gump as who’s corrupting today or are two wrongs making a right?

    Sure a redress of grivance is great for anyone. Authorities will con one into a plea deal as they really don’t want one to take these situaqtions to court as its part of their greediness and deceitfulness. Tony dont’ think police officers are all “Honest Abe” types as they are dirty and they play dirty. Sure my court appointed lawyer backed out of my case and I was left hanging without representation so they conned me into a plea deal as a last resort ditch effort to keep these things from going to court. Small towns or large towns the government is still greedy and can overtake someone’s life and livelyhood if one lets them.

    Sure I have faith but do I have faith in Government not when they pull these things. See if one has pictures and other sexual material on their computers that is how they can trap one, and even with the recordngs. People can tell you anything on the computer but when you go down to prove they are not who they are do the effects really justify the means. I wonder who entraps who with this two wrongs dont’ make a right. If thats the case just toss the good book away in society today. Its just government power abusing in certain circumstances.

  • #46321 Reply


    The means justifying the end? I don’t understand that idea. I’m not sure that would be the way to look at any of this sex registry stuff. Do people always make excuses when they wrong others? Would the mean’s to lie to justify the end results be moral or a justified way of morallity and conduct. I guess the end’s would justify the mean’s if one was playing in the street and someone ran over them.

    While people study to be in corrections and there are people that study to be lawyers, what are the goal’s of them, to make a difference for their fellow man. Now trumping one up goes a bit above the call. At times I dont’ understand this America with their voice of reasoning.

    Tony this sex offender ordeal that a lot are going thru is big business. Sure we should all stand up but rebelling is not the way. Hey this ordeal that we all are going thru goes along with the abortions, sexual rights, homosexual rights, same sex marriages, etc, I’m sure many would say that those are not right or does the means justify the end results for those ordeals.

    Now each person’s lifestyle are his or her business but the truth has to come out and thats why NARSOL and others are fighting for this cause. Yes you are right about beating on a keyboard or should we alljust writre a book about the corruptions of America. We could even start with the Civil war as I’m sure thats basic ground. Now we have the sex offender ordeal and Robin and others in these organizations are in there for you and me and others.

    Sure I don’t want people to run over anyone but it seems that is what these internet ordeals are actually doing, and these self proclaimed police officers seemed to be doing their justice but who’s devilish scheme are they playing?. Believe it or not police officers are servants for good or should one dress up as tiny tim today. Forgive me Tiny Tim but we can all stand up and speak out for real justice and not some watered down Safety factor of their governmental agenda that is a pie in the sky theory instilled by government.

    Myself as well as some others don’t even like war games and it appears that the registry is a type of a war game via a computer encounter in this day and age that is dirty and deceptive and yes we all should speak out. Let those that want to help use resources they have or should we all say once a sinner always a sinner. I guess that woudl be inhumane to say in this day and age

  • #46490 Reply


    One more thing Tony, I wonder what people would say if one protested the sex registry on Christian misuse of power. Or internet abuse by governmental authorities. Even thats something to dwell on.

  • #46558 Reply


    Delete that last post I posted in the wrong place.. thanks Robin

  • #46556 Reply


    I would have to agree with Tammie that it is an inhumane situation for police or government down in the flood area and to treat people like this it says a lot about American Government in this Nation. They can set them up on the internet just as easy. Government only plays by their rules and its the calm before the storm syndrome.

    Yes they are out of line in this situation. What does that tell you about others in other area’s and about treating others fairly. People just want to glamorize what the state does with its rescue team but I wonder who rescue’s American justice. Its people like us that have to adress the situation and do all we can for our fellow American. I wonder who the criminal is in this case or who is predicting?

Reply To: NARSOL’S Vander Wall: “I want to be a conduit for change.”
We welcome a lively discussion with all view points provided that they stay on topic - keeping in mind...

  • *You must check the "I am not a robot" box and follow the recaptcha instructions.
  • *Your submission must be approved by a NARSOL moderator.
  • *Moderating decisions may be subjective.
  • *Excessively long replies will be rejected, without explanation.
  • *Be polite and courteous. This is a public forum.
  • *Do not post in ALL CAPS.
  • *Stay on topic.
  • *Do not post links or email addresses..
  • *Please enter a name that does not contain links to other websites.
Your information:

<a href="" title="" rel="" target=""> <blockquote cite=""> <code> <pre> <em> <strong> <del datetime=""> <ul> <ol start=""> <li> <img src="" border="" alt="" height="" width="">