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2 years later, still no action on Michigan’s Sex Offense Registry

By Sophie Sherry . . . The American Civil Liberties Union is challenging the state of Michigan over its handling of the state’s sex offender registry.

In 2016, the 6th Circuit Court ruled that aspects of Michigan’s Sex Offender Registry Act, SORA, were unconstitutional.

The court’s opinion specifically noted portions of the act which allowed the state to retroactively impose punishments on individuals without due process.

The state of Michigan appealed the circuit court’s ruling, sending Does vs Snyder to the U.S. Supreme Court. In October 2017, the Supreme Court decided not to take up the case, upholding the 6th Circuit Court’s unanimous decision.

It has now been nearly two years since the original ruling and the Legislature has failed to make any reforms to the law.

At the end of June, the ACLU filed a lawsuit against Michigan to force the state to finally make changes to its sex offender registry.

Miriam Aukerman, senior staff attorney for ACLU-Michigan, and state Senator Rick Jones, chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee joined Stateside’s Lester Graham to discuss what changes they think are necessary and why nothing has changed.

read the full piece at Stateside

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This topic contains 50 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  James m Nance 1 month ago.

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  • #43501 Reply

    rick osterhout

    Looks like change will happen eventually!

    • #43643 Reply

      aurelius

      Key word here “eventually”

      • #43650 Reply

        Rick

        Eventually is better than never.

  • #43631 Reply

    tod

    Doesn’t Surprise Me One Bit, they poison the children’s water, Lock up their Fathers & Sons & wonder why its suck a sh*t hole of a state , They should be sued and a judge needs too Award a pretty nice settlement too make them understand the damage these politicians cause by amending these laws on pure factitious lies & studies to scare the community into allowing them to fill their privatized prison systems , they are NOT above the Law. THEY ARE THE CORRUPT ONES WE NEED TO BEWARE OF. THE #1 PREDATORS IN MICHIGAN ….THE POLITICIANS !!!!! One Million Americans on the registry in 52 states is a joke. Whats next ? 9 out of ten convictions in sex cases are based on pure unjust laws ..Not Evidence , Because sex case crimes are the only cases you can be convicted and your entire life destroyed with out evidence or proof, For that matter they do not even need a day or time. It is all based on pure bull**** 8 out of ten convictions . It is like a modern day witch hunt in Michigan.

  • #43632 Reply

    Tim L

    Madison V Marbury

    Some folks just do not believe courts overrule the legislature.

    If the court was going to act they would have in Alaska DOC V Doe.
    The Rehnquist court decided via Mr. Roberts persuaded the bench that, ” Registration itself imposed “no affirmative disability or restraint upon plain liberty.”
    That court also acknowledged the ” ex post” wording of the law thereby justifying their opportunity ( jurisdiction) and review. The regime contained FIRST in FED OMNIBUS5533( 1994) THEN adopted by states SECOND (WI Act 10;1995) under threat of Byrne Grant withholding.
    http://www.ncjp.org/byrne-jag/history

    Running to the FED is costly so for the average registrant state courts are the best approach. IMHO

    • #43648 Reply
      Fred
      Fred
      Admin

      True, it is costly. But remember that federal judges are appointed. They don’t have to play to the voters. State judges are usually elected. I tend to feel more confident going the federal route, unless it’s a state that tends to lean a certain way politically.

      • #43689 Reply

        Tim

        Sorry Fred,

        This particular USE of database in fact succumbed to constitutional challenge by those appointed to 9th. Then reversed AND upheld by another appointed panel, SCOTUS.
        Given that fact, the federal attacks success is not based upon whether a panel is appointed or elected, but on the merits. Robin, is having a tough time expressing the actual liberty deprivation experienced in the N.C. case. Concretely pinpointing the actual effects to the court proves difficult to acheive, especially on paper. This method of approach offers no record as a trial by jury does. As example, the state claims the people opted for the registry for safety, but it that how the people actually use it? No! The people use it to impose affirmative disability, (See Kennedy in Packingham & 6ths ruling in MI). By this rout there’s no way to challenge INTENT.

        In a failure to provide information case a defendant could call witnesses who have used the electronic lists for other reasonably refute state’s claims.

        IMHO complaining to courts is a path sustained by Madison v. Marbury, but the best path is to the people themselves, a jury of peers. Show them how insane they really are. This can best be accomplished one jury at a time. The fed had no real reason to limit government database use but the people themselves do. The control of private or personal information will be an issue in the very near political future. The first group “sold out” to big data was the SO, the rest of the population came shortly after.

  • #43688 Reply

    WC_TN

    I am not a lawyer and may not know what I’m talking about, but I lay the blame on the courts. These judges knew when they made this ruling that they were going 180 degrees against what the state wants to do. How long do you think the court would put up with any private citizen defying a court order? Failure to follow a court order is contempt of court, is it not? These justices should slap the state with a contempt of court charge and ramp up the financial penalties every day they fail to comply. Also, people should be going to jail for failure to act. That’s what the rest of us would face.

  • #43754 Reply

    Bobby

    Hello everyone, { UPDATE ON MICHIGAN’S CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT}
    Well I spoke to Mrs Aukerman last night thru email, about the Class Action Lawsuit, and to me it’s just more dragging of the feet in my opinion, whether it’s coming from the state of Michigan them self’s or the ACLU, or now even the Court. Then there is the fact that it is a election year, that they are now using as an excuse, BOGUS, excuse in my opinion. I mean we won what seems to be the problem, the 6th circuit’s opinion/decision is pretty cut and dry, ” The 2006 and 2011 amendments can not be made retroactive to people who’s convictions were before the 2006 and 2011 amendments were put into place. That’s pretty darn clear to me, it’s no wonder the people up in Lansing are idiots with low IQ’s.
    So anyway I spoke with her and this was her response concerning the Class Action Lawsuit
    We are posting information at aclumich.org/SORAinfo.  The pleadings are there.  The hearings have now been moved to October, so it may be winter before we get a decision.
    Here’s a thought, even though we won EVERYONE WON, NOT JUST THE ORIGINAL 6, What happens if the Court decides that it does NOT apply to ALL registrants, just the original 6.
    Also this is the same court were Judge Leland is, hopefully he doesn’t get the case, he ruled that ONLY parts were unconstitutional and the main issues were Constitutional, like the Tier crap, and forcing people to register for life. So any way it’s another waiting game a year later and nothing is being done, just more excuses. Anyone have any thought’s on this whole situation?

  • #43766 Reply

    Bobby

    Hello everyone
    I just looked on Michigan’s ACLU website, and they have updated there SORNA information, including adding the Class Action Lawsuit, for Does v Snyder.

    I have it downloaded to my phone but not sure how to transfer it to here, can anyone get the information and post it here for everyone to read. I would love to hear everyone’s thoughts on the Class Action. Thanks in advance.

  • #43768 Reply

    Josh

    Yes, I have thoughts…I have my attorney filing any and all motions to get myself off the registry. There was a article about a month or so ago about people being removed who were going to court on their own behalf. I know we were told not to file anything on our own as it may screw things up for the whole lot but I’m not waiting for the state of Michigan to do what is RIGHT and CONSTITUTIONAL. My 25 years is up and I never should have been on it in the first place…I would advise anybody who is eligible or due relief to do the same. I know attorneys are expensive but if you’re going to wait for the ACLU and the state you’re going to be waiting several more years in my opinion…

    • #43776 Reply

      Rick

      I agree and I will do the same if it takes much longer!

  • #43898 Reply

    Bobby

    I listened to the recording about Michigan’s Class Action, and it honestly didn’t explain anything n my opinion. I know they tried to answer questions that people may have had, but none f mine were answered. The main guy talking claimed the 6th Circuit’s decision only applied to the original 6, and that is incorrect, it applies to all Michigan registrants. It says something like this, the 2006 and 2011 amendments can NOT be applied to registrants, retroactively, who were convicted before the 2006 and 2011 amendments were put into place. They also did not explain the chances of the lawsuit winning or the fact that this will probably drag on for years now. We won I really don’t see the issue here except that the 6th circuit needs to force the Michigan Legislature to comply with the ruling, or fine them $500 to $1000 dollars a day for every day they fail to comply with ruling.

  • #43901 Reply

    Josh

    @Bobby….
    You’re preaching to the choir brother! You keep saying the same thing over and over…you’re not wrong and I couldn’t agree with you more. However, you need to go to ACSOL or FAC’s web page and read the article about people getting relief by going to court on your own…the article basically lays out the blue print of what you need to do to get off this damn list…there is a quote from one of Michigan’s state legislators saying that he’d be willing to do a total re-write but he can’t get anybody to support him…that’s the uphill battle that we face….my lawyer encouraged me to wait it out and follow the ACLU’s lead but now we decided that it might just be too big a risk to wait and have a court rule against us…I’m as pissed as you are about this but I’m not going to stand by and not try to do something

    • #44385 Reply

      Timot by D. A. Lawver

      Imagine you’re on trial for SOR case and in defence you call the federal judge to the stand in defence, exactly as our founders made it possible via right to trial itself. That is how you move on!
      I have done it twice and each time was incredibly cathartic win or lose! BTW 92 was the year for me too.

      Sincerely, Tim

    • #46291 Reply

      James m Nance

      Hi everybody I’m a registered sex offender that has to register for life I Got 5 to 15 years in prison because I stole a car and was a child in it I never committed no sex crime I caught my in 2005 it is 2018 I’m still serving on parole I’ve been back to prison five times for violating the Sora violations can someone help me out does this Dozer verse Snyder case help me

      • #46519 Reply

        Timothy

        State’s justification for utilizing the civil yet facially ex post imperative based on necessity via a particular sexual impulsive pathology. They disclaimed real implied individual ‘dangerousness ‘ for a presumably less severe general alert\ warrant.
        Initiatives started with the people re-incarcerated. And the database for broadcast via www. Kid napping was your charge,? and no sex intent nor pathology. The various bills passed without any of little objection, nor serious constitutional consideration. America rushed boldly into the electronic age. States DOC, AGs, State Police, created entire internet domains of their own. I’d estimate thousands of private sex offender databases exist.

  • #44230 Reply

    Bobby

    Hello Everyone,

    Well as most of you know, The Michigan ACLU, filed a Class Action Lawsuit regarding Does v Snyder, well it was suppose to be heard in August, but now it has been pushed back to October, but I was bored today and as I was surfing the net, looking for news regarding Does v Snyder or the Class Action Lawsuit, I came across this https://www.michigan.gov/documents/corrections/DOM_2018-23_SORA_609801_7.pdf

    Now correct me if I am wrong, but this states that Michigan is NOT suppose to be applying the 2006 and 2011 to registrants that convictions were before the Amendment’s were put into place. Now if this is true and this document/ Memorandum was sent out to ALL the agencies, why in the heck, did I have to follow the rules in March and June. I plan on taking this up to my local cop shop and asking them if they have received this even though they told me back in March that they did not receive anything in regards to Does v Snyder, and that they were enforcing the laws until otherwise notified.

    WE as registrants were NOT sent this either, or at least I was not sent this information, and my conviction was in 1992, this little bit of info effects me greatly, on the other hand it effects other registrants as well, who’s convictions were before these amendments were made retroactive and put into place. I was also going to send it to the ACLU and ask why this memorandum is not be applied and enforced by local cop shops. So does anyone have any thought’s on this information, i’d love to hear your thoughts on this situation. Thanks in advance.

  • #44289 Reply

    Josh

    I came across this memo about 2 months ago myself…I have a lot of questions about it as well. I showed the memo to my attorney and was told for the most part that 2006 & 2011 aren’t being enforced unless somebody is doing something pretty suspicious…they can still arrest you but there have been several instances recently where prosecutors are dropping charges solely because of the Snyder decision. I do want to know why vehicles, employment, email addresses and all our other private information isn’t being scrubbed off our registry pages if we qualify due to our convictions being before 2006…please give a report when you talk to your local PD Bobby. I may bring it to mine as well…

    • #44313 Reply

      Bobby

      @Josh, I will diffenitly let you know, I don’t go back in till October, but I think I am going to print a few copies out, and take a walk to my local cop shop next week and see what they have to say, or what kinda excuse they come up with about why they are still enforcing it. I had a conversatio back n May with cop in my town, he said I saw you in your mom’s car, so I said ya so He then says have you registered it yet? I said No don’t have to according to the fact we won the Snyder case. He then said really, we have not gotten anything from the state saying you don’t have to, so if you don’t register your mom’s car you know what happens right. I said since I go by what the 6th circuit and SCOTUS says, you can kiss my ass. Then he said something about my mom, so I said well since she passed away in February good luck with that dick head. After I did finally find her title I did put it in my name and register it for now, snce I want no trouble after doing this crap now for 26 years. Then I ran across the memerandum, so am taking it up to the cop shop which is like 5 minutes from me walking wise, then I am going to ask for officer dumbass personally (can’t remember his name) and say I thought you didn’t receive this memo but according to this you guys have and your still enforcing it. Anyway I will let you know the out come and what they have to say about the memerandum.

  • #44384 Reply

    Jason

    My conviction was in 1998. I realize the 2006 and 2011 amendments ruling apply to me. My problem is I can’t find a single lawyer in my city willing to take my case and fight for me. I am tired of waiting on the ACLU and the government to do what is right.

    Is there a way to get enough people together to start a class action lawsuit outside of the ACLU to get things done in a quicker manner?

  • #44395 Reply

    Josh

    @ Jason
    The ACLU has its hearing on October 17 if I’m not mistaken. That’s about two and a half months away…any class action you would file now would take years…I don’t know if you contacted the ACLU about being included in their class action but that would be your best bet…I know it’s hard but be patient. The state of Michigan has lost at every turn in regards to this case. Let them have their hearing and see where the chips fall and then you should look for a attorney if needed. I’ll actually make my lawyer’s information available if NARSOL allows it. My lawyer is willing to represent registered citizens when many other attorneys won’t

  • #44405 Reply

    Todd

    PS …. And who would have ever thought that a 1 to 3 years sentence by a judge who stated on record , her hands were tied because of the laws of the state …. would have turned into a 26 year sentence and counting . My heart bleeds for my daughter and my family …… My heart Burns for the State of Michigan and the corrupt politicians n judges of our State of Michigan, who know the laws are unjust but still stand behind them . Sometimes its very hard to believe they can even sleep at nite. I could only wish them to feel at least half the pain upon them as they have caused upon our families.

  • #44404 Reply

    Todd

    Yes.. i too am growing very impatient with the State of Michigan, They convicted me in 1992 with nothing more then hearsay only because she was under 15 the state needs NOTHING and had NOTHING. It was a witch hunt , i never had a chance, 19 years old and the REST of my life has been hell since, Over 25 years now and counting . WHAT A JOKE… They have written laws that destroy citizens entire lives with out any proof or reasoning too their madness , Over 40,000 people on their sex offender list in a state that puts 5 or more people on their list daily, Most for life with out evidence or proof most the time. People do not understand that these sex laws in Michigan as well as the United States have grown into nothing more then modern day with hunts to provide power to the government and states , They use lies and false studies as they have admitted too already, in order too scare the public into providing more tax funds and create privatized prison systems , Its so hard to believe that sex laws are much different then other laws when it comes too proof or evidence its NOT FAIR it is so WRONG to even think that with laws that hold such a HATE TRAD towards another human bean for life are the ones that never have proof or hard evidence , 90% of the time sex crimes convictions are based of pure BULLSHIT that the D.A gets away with a easy conviction just because its laws and the way they are written , Its sad but TRUE. I hope one day they are held accountable and change this unjust system they have created for pure POWER and PROFIT only because they Can ! Sad but true…. KEEP UP… THE GOOD FIGHT EVERYONE.

    • #44491 Reply

      Glen

      Todd,
      I’m in total agreement with you. In 2003, I plead guilty to a 1st offense misdemeanor peeping tom charge. I never even retained an attorney. I simply went to the solicitors office and told him i wanted to plead guilty and move forward. I was going through a divorce and my ex wife made the allegation. There was never any physical abuse or contact ever alleged. Fact is, it was a stupid drunken screw-up on my part.

      In any event, I plead guilty same day I went to the solicitors office with no attorney. At the time, I didn’t realize the registry was even a possibility. I was a stupid 32 year old that had no prior involvement with the law. In fact, I was a veteran having served in the military and ignorantly believed the same government I served would be fair to me.

      Anyway, I received 1 year suspended to 2 years probation. It wasnt until days later I was informed by probation that I had to register….for life. And, because it was a misdemeanor charge, I only had 10 days to file an appeal. By the time I could make an appointment and get the money together, the deadline for appeal had passed. I completed my 2 year probation with no issues.

      16 years later, with no re-offense…and, for the rest of my life, I will be on the registry with all its glorious ex post facto public protection benefits…it’s rediculous. I understand, I messed up. Still, I feel the punishment (oh, wait its not punishment per SCOTUS) exceeds the crime by miles.

      But, you know honestly, the worst part of it for me is anyone who cares or will ever care about me (my family, friends, neighbors, emloyer, etc) will continue to be subjected to this humiliating insanity as well. And frankly, the collateral damage to the innocent isn’t fair one bit. That’s clearly not justice.

      And there’s nothing I can do, no due process nor any appeal to protect people I care about. I remember growing up and believing America had the best justice system in the world. The reality is it was all propaganda. How else do you explain the registry, and the fact that America imprisons more of it citizens than any country in the world (including Russia and China). “Land of the free…best justice system in the world…” . What a bunch of horseshit.

  • #44581 Reply

    Todd

    WELCOME TOO THE STATE OF MICHIGAN !

    UN LIKE THE STATISTICS THE GOVERNMENT USED TO CREATE THE SEX OFFENDER LIST ….
    THESE FACTS ARE TRUE !

    I DO NOT KNOW ANYONE WHO WOULD WANT TO VACATION A STATE WITH THESE PROVEN NUMBERS !

    BASIC FACTS ABOUT MICHIGAN’S REGISTRY

    Michigan’s Registry Is Exceptionally Large

    • Michigan’s registry is the fourth largest state registry in the country.
    • There are almost 44,000 people on Michigan’s registry.
    • Michigan has the second highest per-capita registration rate of any state.
    • Approximately 2,000 more people are added to the registry each year.
    • Because the registry is so large, it hard for police to know which registrants need careful
    monitoring.

    Michigan’s Registry Is Expensive

    • Taxpayers pay between $1.2 – $1.5 million each year just on the registration database
    maintained by the state police’s central registration unit.

    VERY SAD TOO THINK ALL THIS HAS HAPPEN IN THE LAST 25 YEARS OF MY LIFE ,I WAS 20 WHEN ALL THIS STARTED IM 46 NOW MY SENTENCE WAS IN 1992 BEFORE A SEX OFFENDER LIST WAS EVER THOUGHT OF , WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THE STATE WOULD HAVE THE POWER TO GIVE ME A LIFE SENTENCE WITH OUT A JUDGE OR JURY . THEY TOOK A 1 TO 3 YEAR SENTENCE THAT A JUDGE GAVE ME (ALL ON PURE HEAR SAY EVIDENCE NOTHING MORE ) AND TURNED IT INTO A LIFE SENTENCE. ONLY BECAUSE A POLITICIAN WROTE A NEW LAW YEARS LATER ??? HOW CAN THAT NOT BE UNCONSTITUTIONAL ????? HOW CAN THAT NOT BE EX POST FACTO ? BE AFRAID ..VERY AFRAID …..YOU COULD BE NEXT ! THIS HAS TO END ….HONESTLY IT SICKENS ME TO THINK I AM NOT ALONE . FOR SO LONG I THOUGHT I WAS . … KEEP FIGHTING ONE DAY SOMEONE WILL HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO HEAR US… IF IT DOES NOT CHANGE. THE NUMBERS SPEAK FOR THEM SELVES … THE STATES FULL OF S%%T & SO ARE THE A%% HOLES RUNNING IT . THEY ARE SCARED TO SAY THEY KNOW THEY F%%KED UP .. AND FIX THE LAWS…. INSTEAD THEY WANT 50,000 HOMELESS, JOBLESS, CITIZENS ON THE STREETS OF MICHIGAN .

    • #44583 Reply
      Fred
      Fred
      Admin

      Hi Todd. I appreciate your passion and your sharing of that information. Just so you know, we have an all CAPS rule for commenting on this blog. Please keep that in mind in future comments.

  • #44585 Reply

    Todd

    I apologize .

  • #44584 Reply

    Todd

    FACTS ABOUT MICHIGAN & ITS STATE LAWS

    Michigan Registers People Who Are Not a Danger to the Community

    • People are required to register without anyone ever deciding whether they are a danger to the
    public.
    • Registration is based solely on past convictions (no matter how old), not on present risk.
    • Modern research shows that scientific assessments are much better at predicting risk than
    past convictions.
    • Some people with minor convictions can present significant risk while other people with
    what appear to be more serious convictions can present little risk.
    • The registry includes children as young as 14.
    • The registry includes people who never committed a sex offense.
    • The registry includes people who were never convicted of a crime.
    • Michigan requires most people to register for life, no matter how old their crime, what they
    have done since, or how small a risk they pose to the community.

    PEOPLE like myself who were convicted only because a law that was written stated ..they do not need proof or evidence if the case was involving a minor ???? REALLY ??? NO PROOF NO EVIDENCE ? I had always believed INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY . NOT IN MICHIGAN You CAN BE GIVEN A LIFE SENTENCE BECAUSE UNJUST LAWS WRITTEN BY POWER HUNGRY POLITICIANS, THAT HAVE TAKEN THE POWER FROM THE JUDGES COURT ROOMS.

    • #45146 Reply

      TDAL

      Todd, Josh, jason, and Bobby

      Our founders gave citizens the right to trial, to call witnesses in defence. Stop complaining and EXERCISE those rights by demanding trial in FTR cases. If you want the courts to act then make them! Opt for trial.

      Every man I’ve seen to win a sex case did so by defending himself. IMHO the very second I chose a lawyer to defend me I’d already lost. If any of you guys are Ex post then you are able to put ” the law itself” on display! Ex post facto laws ON THEIR FACE applied to persons predisposed ( already convicted). It is right there in black and white. Any lawmaker can point one out since they are easily recognized as such. There is the opportunity to expose the law as Ex post to the jury.

      Have the guts to challenge it via the direct scrutiny trial offers you. Remember SCOTUS did NOT deny the Ex post wording, in fact they outright acknowledged it.
      They merely said it wasn’t punitive or punishment!

      Imagine the IMPACT upon an American jury when your witness is forced to admit – as they must by definition – that you’re being compelled by an Ex post facto law.

      This my friends is the difference between intermediate scrutiny and strict scrutiny
      Best of luck to you all.

  • #45242 Reply

    Bobby

    Hello again everyone,

    Well I have sent several emails at lrsdt 3 or 4 a week to to Mrs Aukerman and other Michigan ACLU people, and also several emails to the director of the Michigan Department of Corrections, Mrs Heidi Washington, who is the person who wrote out the 2006 and 2011 Memerandum back in December of ’17 and made it official in January ‘ 2018 . We’ll still no one has gotten back to me to explain to me WHY even though the Memerandum was sent out to local agentcies, NOT to enforce the 2006 and 2011 Amendments WHY they are still being enforced. It’s as if no one wants to talk about this or explain it, and @TDAL, my conviction was way back in 1992 before a registry even existed, also there were no witnesses, and my so called victim is no longer on this planet. Unfortunately she was murdered they think, because she was found behind an old abandoned garage with tires thrown over her to conceal her body. She had herion in her system so she over does on her own and was put there or someone helpec her overdoes,cand then placed her there and no one deserves that no one. So anyway I don’t believe a jury could help me now. I just have to wait for the class action to go through, or the state of Michigan to finally get of their butt and revise the registry like the 6th circuit told them to do 2 years ago.

  • #45243 Reply

    Josh

    @TDAL
    So let me make sure that I have this straight? You want those of us mentioned above to do something to violate our registration requirements just so that we can go to trial? Are you going to pay our legal fees if we do so? I understand what you’re saying and you’re not wrong. However, I didn’t follow every rule/requirement for 25 years just to start the process over with a gamble of that magnitude. As I have previously stated, my level of persecution has been minimal in comparison to what many others have suffered. I also have my family and business to consider. I do have a lawyer and I am pursuing other avenues but I’m also waiting to see what happens in October with the ACLU. My attorney is cautiously optimistic that we might see some relief. One last question. Are you in our boat TDAL? In case you haven’t noticed sex offenders aren’t the most popular members of society and people really don’t want to hear about our problems..they want us banished, shot, burned, castrated and any other horrible thing you can think of. What you call complaining is us venting to just about the only people who can understand and relate to this unfair BULLSHIT that we go through…

  • #45245 Reply

    Josh

    My bad TDAL, didn’t recognize your handle abbreviation from the one you normally use..I apologize. Didn’t mean to minimize your experiences with all this…

    • #45347 Reply

      Tim Lawver

      @Josh, Bobby, all y’all
      Forgiven! I’ve felt the hopelessness myself. Yea I’m in the boat, we’re all in the boat SO or not! I’m just saying TRIAL is an option, for everyone registered. The reason our founders made trial by jury a right IS precisely exemplified by SORNA. THEY KNEW it would come to it ;when CONSTITUTIONAL law making ( not could) but WOULD break down because of financial corruption. They knew damn well it would break down cause they knew the golden rule THEM WITH THE GOLD MAKE THE RULES. King George was a greedy prick and frequently changed the rules mid-game, and always ALWAYS!!!! to the disadvantage to those already committed ( to the colonies) not the convicted.

      Same thing here right… always to states advantage = manifest injustice. So for the fathers that meant they had to have an EFFECTIVE means to address corruption problems they KNEW would come. The trial right was but one, the right to call witnesses was another. Subpoena power (reserved for kings prior) was given to charged persons. I’d use it to put Paul Ryan SOHOR on the stand. Thus a citizen under felony indictment, a defendant , was given A KINGS POWER! In short, they threw every trick in the bag of tricks for the defendant. I MEAN EVERY TRICK! WHY because THEY KNEW, just like this group knows… It gets darn corrupted at times.
      They new when gov’t to intolerable a man could take his cause to the people themselves… A jury of peers.
      Thus another rule prohibiting ex post laws, even civil ex post laws was ratified under Art 1sec10 ‘Congress shall make NO ex post facto laws increasing the punishment…’ Surely you know they (state) put one over with Sorna, Mr. John Paul Stevens knew it too! But he only had one vote. Other than that he was powerless EXCEPT he wrote an outright decent; he stated, “…mboth necessary AND sufficient condition to include those predisposed” That’s a polite judges speak for BULLSHIT MOTHER FU$%&RS. Isn’t that exactly what NARSOL is saying too? Yep only in a polite way. Trial is the middle ground between politeness and war.

      Opting for trial in not for everyone, I admit that. There are indeed risks, but for this registrant IT HAS COME TO THAT. We are making headway in the federal courts on ex post grounds, Carr, Packingham, and this is good but I fear the larger implications that such a regime as SORNA is destroying the American fabric. Our founders also saw the ex post prohibition as a “canary in a coal mine.” They understood the people, whomever they were, would not remain whole by such actions! There is manifest injustice in using that type of law, besides the are ineffectiveness AND inefficiency, and a nation of free men could not survive for long had they been used. There is still more of a dark side. We can’t tell who is the good guy or decent guy from those whom are evil or untollerable. Most folk think ALL registrants the latter right? And do they ban, bar or otherwise impose their own brand of affirmative disability by not hiring, renting to, selling to… AND worse yet act in a vigilante manner, justifying assault, arson and murder. ARE WE SEEING ALL OF THE negative aspects from the use? ABSOLUTELY. What does all this ,taken altogether, say about the state of things? Still most folks just really don’t care, not because they are immoral, but rather they are distracted by the day to day. Tho propaganda has played a role too. Machiavelli was right on the money.
      Look around are we actually a safer nation? NO! We got school shooters on the regular, multiple shootings daily etc etc etc. IT IS BAD, but politicos continue to APPEAR to be doing everything possible to maintain their positions.

      In 1992 I was convicted of 1ct, 1degree sex assault child under 13. I demanded trial. I know now, and then I’m not capable of such. I didn’t do it but she had her say, pointed me out, jury decided. Took less than a whole day. A month later Judge gave me 60 months. I was furious and dumbstruck. The very night before I was set to ship to Waupon, the mother of the girl came to my house to apologize. Quite a scene! I did 2\3 as per law. That worked out to 1210 days. Mostly in OGCC. I think I got more time because I demanded trial. But a man should not plea if he’s not really guilty, some plea anyway. I could not do so. If a person has been assaulted they must have their say because to me that is most important for them.
      Our founders must have understood that too but I’ve no proof.
      Which brings me to my final point here. Even if you think I’m just lying, you only need to know that DNA exoneration are a real thing. While no such was used in my case DNA has lead to exoneration of others. That begs a seriously dark question.

      WHO THE HELL BENEFITS FROM FORGING FELONS FROM THOSE NOT?
      I suspect it’s the same folks who dreamed up SORNA. And I’m not talking about congress. I am left with only one conclusion; AN ELITE WITH A DATABASE. It’s not paranoia it’s Orwell, Machiavelli, Asimov, Kant, Smith, Shakespeare. I do not read, I devour!
      I am well versed in computer and database, I’ve said why in other posts. From the start I was taught what a database can do AND what it CANNOT do. A database cannot predict the future. That is what Congress claimed in Whetterling act BEHOLD WE HAVE PREDICTED THE FUTURE OF THESE INDIVIDUALS, they will assault again thus we must do this. Bull it’s about how they wanted to utilize database infrastructure.This is the “something else is afoot” one justice’s noted during the AK processing in the 9th. The case originated under the name Debartellio. d knows better than me I’m sure. I found his ONCEFALLEN in 99 I think.
      He does public protests, which is better than trial, IMHO but he’s mostly alone in that effort. We’d need all to show to make a dent but this is not logistically plausible. Most registrants just wanna put it behind them.
      State ain’t having that so I’m ready to bear the cross in a public trial anytime NARSOL is ready. Not for you SOBs, myself or family neither, for humanity!
      HN>MN=null & not the reverse.

      Anyway I’ve had my say and I appreciate yours.

  • #45661 Reply

    Bobby

    Hello everyone,

    Well I finally heard back from Mrs Washington or her assistant anyway, and as I thought she claims that the Does v Snyder ONLY applies to the original 6 defendant’s NOT all registrant’s and we all know that is a BIG FAT LIE, I have read the 6th circuits decision many times and no way can I find were the 2006 and 2011 Amendment’s ONLY applies to the original six, It does say however that the 2006 and 2011 amendments can NO LONGER be applied retroactively to people WHO’S conviction(s) where before the Amendments were put into place, or something to that effect.

    Anyway here is their response back to me, Thank you for your email dated August 14, 2018. Director Washington asked me to respond to you. We issued the Director’s Office Memorandum 2018-23 following the Sixth Circuit’s opinion in Doe v. Snyder et al, Case Nos. 15-1536/2346/2486. The purpose of the memorandum is to instruct MDOC employees only, and was based on this Department’s understanding of the opinion and its application to MDOC policies and procedures. The Doe opinion is specific in most instances to the plaintiffs in the case—not to all registrants. For this reason, each state department as well as each law enforcement agency must make an independent interpretation of the law and how, based on that interpretation, it will implement any changes it deems are required by the Doe opinion. Not every entity will interpret the case the same, and there have not been any subsequent opinions that give clarity to how the provisions of Doe apply to the entire registrant population. The MDOC memorandum only directs actions taken by MDOC employees. I hope this explanation helps.

    Lisa C. Geminick
    Administrator/Office of Legal Affairs
    MI Department of Corrections
    517.335.4194
    517.335.4188 Direct
    PLEASE NOTE THESE ARE NEW TELEPHONE NUMBERS.

    So there it is in a nutshell folk’s please let me know what your thought’s are regarding their response, and please feel free to correct me, if you do not think the 6th circuit’s decision does not apply to everyone and only applies to the original 6 defendants. Thanks in advance.

  • #45686 Reply

    Josh

    @Bobby
    Did you ever take that trip over to your local cop shop with a copy of that memo? This response you got from the MDOC person is pretty telling…They’re toeing the party line about it being only for the six original plaintiffs but they put out this memo anyway….this tells me they know they are going to LOSE! Why would you let every police agency in the state have to try to interpret the law on their own? Cases are being thrown in this state already based on this ruling I have noticed a big difference in how things have been handled by my local law enforcement. As I have previously stated, I did not receive my yearly compliance visit after my first verification visit this year….they also no longer have a real police officer doing the registrations at the cop shop…they have passed the job on to cadets…like you said Bobby, I may just bring a copy of the memo and hand it to the little officer-in-training and see what his reaction will be…Hang in there people because October isn’t that far away and I’m more optimistic then I have been in years….

    • #45779 Reply

      Bobby

      @Josh,. I do not go in untill September, and since this Monday is Labor day I will be going on the 2nd or 3rd. and I will definitely be taking that copy of the memerandum with me to show them. Hell I will even let them keep it for their own records. I have more copies, and I can print more out if I have to, but I will let ya all know what they say to me.

      • #45985 Reply

        Bobby

        @Josh, well I went into my local cop shop yesterday, and gave the clerk a copy of that memerandum. She did take it the back to aks some one about it. She came back a few minutes later, and said she couldn’t find the Cheif or the Sargent, but she did as if she could make a copy to show them later, I told her to keep it, Because I had more copies at home. So will see what happens from here, she is a new clerk, only been at our local station for a few months now, but she definitely knows about does v Snyder and knows about the 6th Circuit’s ruling. She didn’t ask me any questions, about my status, just asked if any thing has changed since I was last in back in June. I said everything is the same, she took about 5 minutes to to do what she needed to do, and I was out the door. Now just waiting for October, and to see what Judge Cleland decides on the Class Action Lawsuit.

  • #45710 Reply

    Josh

    I can’t find anywhere in all the things I’ve read that says that the decision applies only to the six original plaintiffs….the person who responded to you has to say that….because that’s the legal position the state has apparently taken…but why put out a memorandum to all MDOC saying otherwise..it seems like a major contradiction and I wonder if somebody jumped the gun by putting it out there. I’ve noticed changes already from my local law enforcement in regards to compliance checks and verification visits in a positive way. I think the state knows it’s going to lose in October and used the election year as a excuse. There’s also the $$$$ aspect to all this….the state didn’t want to miss out on the $50 fee from each of us registrants that we have to pay for the “privilege” of being on their bullshit Registry..not to mention the federal funding that would be pulled when a quarter to a third of the registry would be wiped out…

  • #45711 Reply

    Josh

    Sorry for the last somewhat redundant post….I thought my first one didn’t make it past the moderator for some reason and then it showed up as I posted my second reply..

  • #45769 Reply

    RickO

    What is going on in October? Thanks

    • #45849 Reply

      Bobby

      @Rick0. The Class Action Lawsuit, that the Mchigan ACLU is going to be heard on October 17th I believe is the correct date. I personally can’t see how we can lose the Class Action Lawsuit, since the 6th Circuit’s decision clearly does say it applies to ALL Michigan Registrants who’s convictions pre-date the 2006 and 2011 Amendments. It’s pretty clear cut to me anyway. The state of Michigan just needs to get off it butt and revise the registry like it was ordered to do two years ago. It’s as simple as that in my opinion.

  • #45878 Reply

    Rick osterhout

    Thanks for answering that question Bobby I appreciate it.

  • #45886 Reply

    Josh

    Somebody correct me if I’m wrong but I believe they are asking for the Aclu’s Class action to be certified(affirmed) and a partial summary judgement on the relief due from Snyder v Does…again, if I got that wrong please feel free to explain it properly or correctly..

  • #46932 Reply

    T.G.

    I took a plea bargain in 2001 when I was 23 years old in one of those sting operations online in which a cop poses as an underage girl.While I don’t think the tactics that were used to “lure” me out there to be arrested by the police were right and lawful, it is what it is. I am a tier 2 that has to register for 25 years. My advice to seek relief in the Federal Courts as I have done this myself while incarcerated in 2003 when I sued the Michigan Parole Board. To file a lawsuit in Federal Court on your own, you must file a motion with the court clerk in “Pro Se” meaning representing ones self. Make sure you file in the right court. Then you must file a complaint form with the clerk stating your issues and relief sought and whom you are suing. You file an original and 2 copies of the complaint with the court clerk. Then you must file a cover sheet with the court clerk. They will stamp all forms when you file them. The cost to file a lawsuit in Federal Court is $400, but well worth it instead of thousands on a lawyer. If you can prove you cannot pay or have limited assets, you can file to proceed with your lawsuit in “Forma Pauperis” which I did when I was in prison. So I am gonna wait to see what happens on October 17th with this class action lawsuit with the ACLU, if no relief is given, I will sue the State of Micigan on my own using these steps. Hope this helps, learned a lot working in the law library in prison!

    • #46995 Reply

      Bobby

      @TG, when you said ” I will wait to see what happens on October 17th to what happens with the Class Action Lawsuit with the ACLU” Well I was looking on the Eastern Courts website and could not find the hearing on October 17th anymore, the I found out from someone on the Acsol’s website and they said that it has been moved to January 9th 2019, for some reason. They just see to keep kicking this case down the road more and more. He did mention they were putting it of because f the election in his opinion. There is a whole article on Does v Snyder on the Acsol’s website dated the 20th or 21st if your interested. I was surprised to see that it is not on this website as well. I hope this makes since to you and everyone else who may be reading this now.

  • #47086 Reply

    T.G

    Yes Bobby I have a copy of the docket for Does vs Synder 2. The docket Case # is 2:16-cv-13137-RHC-DRG in the Eastern District of Michigan (Detroit) which is 10 minutes from my house lol. I have been working with the Pro Se Legal Assistance Clinic at the courthouse in Detroit and they advised me to wait before filing my own Federal lawsuit as it would cost $400, but could get same relief for free if this class action lawsuit is successful. But I get updates pretty quick and am in the know about this case thanks to the assistance clinic.

    • #47523 Reply

      Bobby

      @TG,

      I know you said you were in contact with the people working on Does 2, so I have a question for you

      I finally got an e-mail back from Mrs Aukerman, and this is what she replied back to me

      You must continue to register.  The hearing was moved because we are negotiating with the state to see if we can get a new, better law.  That law, or any decision in the case, will affect everyone.

      Ok, so here is my question, maybe you know the answer and maybe not. anyway WHY? are we still negotiating with the state, for a new better law? WE already won case closed what is there to negotiate?
      Hell the 6th Circuit even said the ruling applies to ALL pre-SORNA registrants. I mean maybe I am an idiot, but we already won, NOTHING left to negotiating. Also any new updates or progress you can tell us about concerning Doesv Snyder 2. Thanks in advance.
       

  • #47121 Reply

    Josh

    @T.G.
    Will you do us all a favor and keep us posted on any developments that occur by updating us on this forum? I.e adjournments, delays, filings etc..it’d be greatly appreciated….I’m kinda in the same situation as you. I have a lawyer who is advising me to wait and see if I can get the relief from Does II in January before we attempt to file anything separately on our own. In my case and several others like Bobby, we should come off the registry all together as our original 25 year registration periods would be expired or served.

  • #47421 Reply

    Obvious answers

    the government follow the law? hahahahhaa..oh my..almost choked on my coffee cup…
    You have to be kidding me if you honestly thought “the Crown” would submit itself to the whims of the judiciary and the peasants…obey the law..hahahha..listen to those foolish rubes…
    the only thing the crown understands is force..the loss of or the fear of loss of control… THAT the crown understands…
    How did blacks get rights? It wasn’t MLK jr.. the crown shot him dead..bye bye…..it was the threat of violence by x and the other radicals…
    The crown knew it had no choice..either abdicate rule or integrate black populations…the violence was escalating…
    Why perpetrate the lie that MLK jr was the real reason? As long as you believe anything will be resolved peacefully the crown owns you and has no threat of you demanding your rights and freedoms..

    Truth is NOTHING involving rights for anyone has ever been resolved positively peacefully..Nothing..never…Ask the Native Americans….

    the crown will push until it is pushed back with enough force it has reason to fear it will loose its crown..
    You dont have to believe me.. your living it..

    schools out folks..

  • #47615 Reply

    T.G

    @ Bobby
    I agree with you that the 6th circuit ruling should apply to EVERYONE whose offense occurred prior to the 2006 and 2011 amendments to SORNA, but however Michigan is dragging its feet with their view that the ruling only applies to the original 6 plaintiffs who sued in Does vs Synder. This is why the ACLU is filing a class action lawsuit to make sure ALL registrants get relief whose offense occurred prior to 2006 and 2011. I don’t know much so far about the negotiations between the ACLU and the state of Michigan to get a better “deal” regarding registration, but I can see a big problem going forward with law enforcement being sued for false imprisonment as they generally will be ignorant of the 6th circuits decision, arresting registrants for violations of SORNA despite their convictions occurring prior to 2006 and 2011. So in my opinion, the state of Michigan should remove many registrants whose offense occurred prior to 2006, or come up with some kind of “risk assessment” for first time offenders who have not reoffended or risk multiple lawsuits. People who were convicted prior to the online registry that was created in the late 90s definitely should not have to registry as my opinion is that the ex post facto laws of the constitution forbid ANY new law created should not be applied retroactively, not just the 2006 and 2011 amendments to SORNA in Does vs Synder. Just my 2 cents!

Reply To: 2 years later, still no action on Michigan’s Sex Offense Registry
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