The sex offender registry: a non-punitive civil regulatory scheme

By Sandy . . . The sex offender registry is a non-punitive civil regulatory scheme.

Keep that in mind. Keep repeating it. A non-punitive civil regulatory scheme.

Civil, not criminal. The requirement to register is triggered by a criminal conviction, both felonies and misdemeanors, but the requirement to register is not part of punishment. It is non-punitive. So ruled the Supreme Court well over a decade ago.

It is a Non-Punitive. Civil. Regulatory. Scheme.

And yet, in many states, failure to register and even infractions in adhering to the registration procedure will land one in jail. Several years ago in Texas, Josh Gravens was on the verge of being behind bars, facing up to 25 years’ imprisonment, for a minor technicality – Failure to Comply with Registration Requirements, which in Texas and other states is a felony. He was at the registration office to update a change of address when he was arrested because he hadn’t followed the procedure of registering the new address seven days before the move, which is the law.

As the move was precipitated by a sudden marital separation, Josh hadn’t known seven days previously that he would be moving. Didn’t matter. This had occurred once before during a month’s work trip when he failed to register his temporary address in another state in time. This would have made his third felony charge, the first being at age twelve for inappropriate touching of his sister.

He fought it and was successful.

In Minnesota infractions in registry procedure add time to the length of the registration requirement.

The consequences of any violation of this NON-PUNITIVE CIVIL REGULATORY SCHEME can be extremely serious.

For Harley Hold in Missouri, they were as serious as it gets.

In the Algoa Correctional Center, part of the Missouri Department of Corrections prison system, for a failure to register charge, Harley was severely beaten by other inmates. His requests for medical treatment were ignored until it was too late, and he died of his head and brain injuries. Harley was on the Missouri sex offender registry for a charge of statutory rape in 2004 when he was 24 years old.

Should he have been involved with an underage girl when he was 24? No.

Should he have made sure that he was complying with the letter of the law in his registration requirements? Yes.

But should a NON-PUNITIVE CIVIL REGULATORY SCHEME result in PUNITIVE CRIMINAL charges that can result in a lengthy prison sentence? That can result in adding time as a CRIMINALLY CONVICTED FELON to a CIVILLY REQUIRED NON-PUNITIVE REGULATORY SCHEME?

That can result in severe beatings, head trauma, and death?

Prison is not a pretty place. The risk of violence and harm is present for everyone, but the risk to sexual offenders is many times over what it is to other inmates. Prison authorities know this and have an obligation to protect the lives of those thrust into their care. Most often those bearing the sexual offender label are put into special housing, not into the general population.

Of course, Harley was not in Algoa Prison for a sexual offense conviction. He was in prison for a crime that is a crime ONLY to U.S. citizens who are on a sex offense registry. He was in prison for failure to register.

A violation of a NON-PUNITIVE CIVIL REGULATORY SCHEME.

 

Help us reach more people by Sharing or Liking this post.

Sandy Rozek

Sandy is communications director for NARSOL, editor-in-chief of the Digest, and a writer for the Digest and the NARSOL website. Additionally, she participates in updating and managing the website and assisting with a variety of organizational tasks.

Viewing 22 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • #40950 Reply
      Avatar
      Rita Pruitt

      It’s a load of crap, no matter what they try to call it. There is no other category of criminal offense which requires any further actions, conditions, restrictions, once an offender has “done his/her time” meaning, completed their sentence and any supervision requirements of Probation/Parole, commonly called being “on paper.”

      Why then even have Probation & Parole officers and hearings? Once an offender successfully completes a period of probation or parole, having met certain requirements, wouldn’t being released indicate that the offender is no longer felt to be a risk, and capable of returning to the community? Ideally, upon release from supervision, the officer having had ongoing knowledge of their offenders, should have a good idea who is likely to re-offend.

      Why release someone from supervision then who cannot be compliant? Doesn’t release imply that the offender has “paid their dues” and can return to society?
      Doesn’t it also imply confidence in the offender to self-monitor their own behaviors in order to avoid further arrests???

      I’m not free to come & go as I please. I have a long list of places that I am not supposed to be, and distances that I am supposed to maintain from specific places…parks, pools, playgrounds, schools, daycares. I have restrictions on where I may live. I couldn’t visit my grandchild in the NICU without a security escort.

      These restrictions have little or absolutely nothing to do with the nature of my offense. My Probation Officer and the credentialed professionals who knew me during my 5 years of mandatory Sex Offender treatment would agree that I am a very low risk to re-offend. I am statistically at a much lower risk for recidivism than non-sexual offenders.

      The registry IS punitive. It continues to place limits, restrictions & duties on offenders simply because they fall into the homogenous category of “Sex Offender” because it’s a pacifier for the general public.
      It gives the appearance that someone is “doing something” with absolutely nothing to substantiate that those specific actions keep ANYONE safe. It certainly doesn’t prevent new offenses from ocurring, as most are committed by non-registrants.

      The registry fails on many levels!
      It fails victims, it fails offenders, it fails the general public, it monopolizes resources that could be better utilized monitoring persistent offenders. Perhaps programs could be implemented to treat child/juvenile victim/offenders
      so that they never commit a sexual offense that lands them on the registry in the first place?
      Prevention…what a novel idea!!

      • #41018 Reply
        Avatar
        Wayne Burkett

        You captured it well. How do you fix it, possibly educate the public and get support from those who have reinforced, how public safety is enhanced, by alerting the community to potential dangerous people who may do evil. Every society has a boogie man from terrorists to those who may have committed sex offenses in the past. The statistics aren’t important, what the odds are the person will harm you, your children or family. The sentencing laws of each state are designed to address this, and it doesn’t seem the courts have been lenient when sentencing, especially repeat offenders. To maintain the current system, lets as a society, educate our citizens, our future generations. We know our neighbors, friends and family. Move on to more productive pastures.

      • #41085 Reply
        Avatar
        Bob vanmocha

        Here is the problem with the sentiment that probation officers should know if a person is going to re offend probation officers only see a person for 15 minutes a month maby they don’t have the time or the manpower or the funds to monitor people the way the unrealistic laws command them too as I have been a sex offender for the past 10 years I have been discriminated against relentlessly for absolutely no reason at all the fact I’m innocent has nothing to do with how society and law enforcment treats sex offenders everyone believes its there duty to make life as miserable as possible for anyone with the lable its stupid how easy it is to turn someone into a sex offender all you have to do is accuse someone and its a wrap for them they only have a 2%chance of beating the charge and money and political influence changes every outcome every time it’s time for a change no more labeling people we labeled. The Jews we labeled the blacks we labeled the Irish we labeled the Muslims we labeled everyone from south of the border all we do in this country is brand people with labels enough of the fu%$ing labels quit labeling and harassing people if people want to keep there kids safe make sure they are educated make sure we pay attention and start making bullying a punishable crime put metal detectors and law enforcement in the schools not some pansy who hides while kids are being executed let’s. Make some realistic changes let’s make harassment a real crime no matter. Who you are or what you are we are all human beings and deserve yo be treated as such!

        • #41107 Reply
          Avatar
          Maestro

          Bob,

          I don’t know if maybe you missed one of my previous comments, I think it was on another post/article, anyway, this here…

          “ as I have been a sex offender for the past 10 years”

          Have you been committing sex crimes for the past 10 yrs? If not, then you’re NOT a “sex offender”. To call yourself a sex offender is the equivalent of me calling myself a smoker…. because I AM a smoker. I just put a cigarette out a few mins ago and about to have another one.
          Are YOU about to go commit another sex crime?
          Then you’re NOT a sex offender. You are someone that broke a law once which had to do with sex.
          You’re not helping the fight against labeling if you’re going to call yourself a “sex offender”.

          • #46772 Reply
            Avatar
            Ed

            Hear, hear!! I refuse to refer to myself as a “sex offender.” That is language in the present tense. I have a federal possession conviction from nine years ago. Granted, what I did was wrong, stupid and happened to be unlawful.

            I made your very point in my last group counseling session, remarking that, as a child, my mother never called me a bad boy. Rather, she told me my actions were bad. I was able to separate my actions from my self image. I refuse to let prosecutors, the courts or society force me to internalize the moniker, “sex offender.” Of course, I am subject to certain legal constraints due to my prior actions, which I accept, albeit while doing what I can to modify laws.

            Incidentally, the woman running the group session responded by reminding me that I should not deny my actions. She missed the point entirely. Insinuations of denial or minimization seem to be the go-to response from counselors.

    • #40951 Reply
      Avatar
      Tired Of Being Mistreated

      You explained it perfectly !!. Whoever thinks the “Registery” is NNON-Punitive is completely Blind and Crazy !!!. The “Registery” is worse than the sentence for the original crime !!!!. And YES, Anything that when not Followed, Would result in someone Being ARRESTED AND PUT IN PRISON, IS Punitive !!!!;. . The”Registery” is a a complete WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY !!! It does NOTHING to Protect Children and gives people a FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY !!!. ALSO, PEOPLE ON THE REGISTERY DON’T REOFFEND !!!. The “Registery” is just another way for States to get MONEY from the Government !!!.

    • #40952 Reply
      Avatar
      CG

      My prayer is that in my lifetime I will live to see these laws abolished. Unjust and unconstitutional.

    • #40982 Reply
      Avatar
      WearethePeople

      So how many people are on the registry now? It was 800,000 in 2013, so what is it now? This is the problem with the system, the numbers are going to continue to increase, even with the changes in legislation.

    • #40973 Reply
      Avatar
      I am Revenge

      These years forced onto this insane registry will be paid for. I am not alone, hell is coming for this endless NIGHTMARE.

    • #40978 Reply
      Avatar
      JZ

      New non-PUNITIVE measures take effect in Floriduh on July 1, 2018:

      http://laws.flrules.org/files/Ch_2018_105.pdf

      “A sexual offender who does not comply with the requirements of
      this section commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s.
      775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
      (b) For a felony violation of this section, excluding subsection (13),
      committed on or after July 1, 2018, if the court does not impose a prison
      sentence, the court shall impose a mandatory minimum term of community
      control, as defined in s. 948.001, as follows:
      1. For a first offense, a mandatory minimum term of 6 months with
      electronic monitoring.
      2. For a second offense, a mandatory minimum term of 1 year with
      electronic monitoring.
      3. For a third or subsequent offense, a mandatory minimum term of 2
      years with electronic monitoring.”

      So, failing to re-register or not providing information at re-registration is a 3rd degree felony that either gets you a fresh 5 years in prison or puts you back on probation (community control) with electronic monitoring (more chances to violate you and get you back into a GEO prison to fill the books pockets). That’s the end game. How is this not punitive?

    • #40979 Reply
      Avatar
      Maestro

      If this was decided over a decade ago, how about bringing it back to court now with the many thousands more people (adults, teens and kids) who are on it and the growing homeless population due to it over the last 10 yrs? There’s a novel idea.

      I have another novel idea… remember the “occupy” groups? Many of them were homeless. I know, I spoke to some that were camped out near Yale University.
      All registered citizens who have residency restrictions and borderline homelessness need to congregate (stop being scared because “felons” aren’t supposed…blah blah blah) congregate and plop your butts on the front lawns of the judges, DA’s and legislators who enact these laws.
      Then let’s hear them say it’s not punitive.

      • #40991 Reply
        Avatar
        SW

        I wonder how we would all get in touch with one another for a protest. We need a “phone tree”, or whatever it was called, since so many of us have no internet.

        • #41010 Reply
          Avatar
          Maestro

          Support groups like NARSOL. They have our email addresses to contact us for such an event if they did it. We have to put in our email addresses (no matter the secrecy of them) in order to post comments here, remember.

    • #40990 Reply
      Avatar
      SW

      That’s the thing that has confused and troubled me; being punished so severely for a clerical error. Every year they (Minnesota) send out the registration paperwork. I have found and reported so many mistakes that I know that I didn’t make. But who would get the blame for it? Me, of course.

      As everyone knows, it’s a proverbial mine field and we are surrounded by our enemies.

      My hope is that someone will take a case to the US supreme court and pass something sensible.

    • #40995 Reply
      Avatar
      Art B

      A question for our attorney members…since the Supreme Court ruled the sex offender registry is a non-punitive civil regulatory scheme…and it obviously is much more than that (as Sandy eloquently explains), doesn’t this provide an avenue for challenging the legality of the laws? Or is the prior Supreme Court decision written in stone, never to be considered again?

    • #40998 Reply
      Avatar
      TDAL

      AHHHHH,

      Merely the power of the databases meant to secure the political futures of the two parties. Granted full and unfettered use of electronics via OMNIBUS 94, 98 02 & the Whetterling act. Our police interests trying anything to prove the can prevent crime. They, along with the deepstate, attempting to appear capable of preventing when mostly they show up AFTER the crime done.

    • #41005 Reply
      Avatar
      Timothy Level 3

      Well I guess I will put in my two sense. I can not agree more with what has been said. I am a level 3 offender from Minnesota and I really like the idea of doing a sit in, or something similar. I to would like to get all sex offenders together in a location to talk about what we as a population of offenders can do as a group. It is very obvious that no one or two will be able to fight this. I like most ex-offenders are scared to put a face to our name and disagreement with the system. A lot of us either have good jobs and want to protect them or are having a difficult time finding a job, due to our status or label that has been attached to us. There is a movement in MN at least as far as the professionals go to help us. One of the things they are doing (and this came out of the MN sex offender training held this last month) is changing the way they speak about us. The change is to not speak to people about sex offenders, but to show us as people, Human beings not a label. We are to be addressed and discussed as persons who sexually offended. This may seem like a small thing, but it puts a whole different appearance to us being a person, Human, Not a label.
      I for one do not and have not for some time not looked as myself as a sex offender. I first am a truck driver, paramedic, laborer, Loss Control Manager, Corrections Officer, Computer engineer, just to mention a few of the labels I carry. Notice I did not include the offense. That is not who I am. I am also a Dad / Father, of two wonderful young adults. Whom I am very proud of for going through all this with me, and having to endure the pain and hardship my actions have caused us all.
      Another thing that at least in MN needs to be address is the process of assigning a offender a RISK CODE LEVEL (A,B,C or 1,2,3) depending on the system you are rated under. In MN it’s 1,2,3. The process is very hodgepodge at best with six teams of assessors that go to the prisons and decide ( or read an offenders mind) to make a person a level 1,2, or 3. All being based off of a file they read, not complete facts, of how a. Person has changed since they offended. Their decision is based off past behavior(s) not current. I was made a level three (3) simply because I could not show full-time employment for seven months during the time I was offending. ( I could not get the records they needed due to being incarcerated)
      Now I’m finding out that there is a process that I have to go through to get my level reduced that seems a lot like the process that the civil committed must go through to be released. I know of several people right now that are going through this process now, it has taken several months to get to the point of a teleconference with someone who then brings the info to several others who then decide if the offender should be allowed to go forward in the process, or be rejected. All being said non of this goes in front of a judge, the people it goes in front of are all DOC employees. Interesting thing about my level assignment is that it was assigned before I ever went in front of the team. My level was assigned on 4-21-11, I first went in front of the team towards the end of May, 2011, and at that time my paperwork was not present for all members, so they rescheduled my hearing, the next hearing took place two weeks later the first 10 days of June, 2011. I was to be release June 18th, I received the decision on the 14th or just before. We were told at that time that if we faught the level 3 assignment that the State Attorney Generals office would go after us for Civil Committment. That scared the crap out of several of us, especially me as I was already being looked at for civil commitment and only after this hearing was told it was denied. I have now been a free man off all supervision making very good money, and still a level three. In the last month I have been asked to do several jobs that would take me on to Military bases to do my work, this last one I have actually requested and will find out if I am able to in several days. This job is worth $5000.00 to me, so I hope it goes through, and if it does I will request some others as well.

      • #41012 Reply
        Avatar
        Maestro

        Timothy Level 3,

        I want to address some things you mentioned.
        First, you are NOT a sex offender. Very, very few of us with such a conviction are. And unless you are still working as a correctional officer, you’re not that either. Allow me to explain…

        To say someone is a sex offender or a car jacker is to make the presumption that the person continues to do it. I sexually offended 1 time, 13 years ago.. How am I a sex offender?
        I’ll tell you what I am, I’m a smoker. Every 15 to 20 mins I grab my pack of cigarettes and light one up. But I don’t go chasing after teenage girls. So I am not a sex offender. I am someone who ONCE committed a sexual offense.
        I used to work in a warehouse that sold metal materials to construction companies as wall as Boeing. I worked in the shipping department. I haven’t done that job in over 10 yrs. I have been working in restaurants for the last 5 yrs. so I am NOT a warehouse worker anymore. I AM a server and catering delivery person.

        One of the things we and our advocates need to do is stop referring to us all as “sex offenders” in the current/present tense and reword it to something like “former offenders” or something.
        Many of us have only 1 time offenses. That includes multiple romantic endeavors with the same underage teen. It was 1 person therefore it was 1 offense. Anyone with multiple offenses MIGHT be seen as a “sex offender” especially if they admit to themselves that they have such desires constantly.

        Second, the tier system is horse sh*t. As you laid it out in your comment, they do it in a way that makes them seem like mind readers. And they look at paperwork which paints a convicted person in a bad light anyway. We all know this.
        My state doesn’t have a tier system as far as I know since I was never informed of it. I’m glad we don’t. Here’s why… PAPERWORK. Case files. Police reports. None of them say the relationship was consensual, only the prosecutor said that in my court hearings. HOWEVER….the same prosecutor, when repeating the incident of my case said: “He then took her to a motel where he sexually assaulted her” (yes, she and I went to a motel and the incident was anything but an “assault”). See how the language/wording makes a defendant look. The word “assault” needs to be dropped from any and all laws where an offense against the law is committed when it’s RECOGNIZED as CONSENSUAL, hence the 2nd degree. MISCONDUCT would be more appropriate for this degree of offense. When people read or hear the word “assault”, they automatically assume we beat the living crap out of someone and then raped them.

        Connecticut General Statute:
        •Sec. 53a-71. Sexual assault in the second degree: Class C or B felony. (a) A person is guilty of sexual assault in the second degree when such person engages in sexual intercourse with another person and: (1) Such other person is thirteen years of age or older but under sixteen years of age and the actor is more than two years older than such person.•

        Basically it’s saying that they realize that teenagers in that age group have popping hormones and WILL consent, but the state says they CANNOT. But they do. People under 21 CANNOT drink alcohol…but they do. And many of us have.
        I’m still in awe and confusion about how that law which I posted above qualifies the “actor” as a threat to the SAFETY of the public. But someone who used a weapon to rob a convenience store is NOT a threat to the public and doesn’t get tier levels and doesn’t get banished from society and doesn’t get their face plastered on a registry, etc, etc.

        Ah, I forgot to mention this, this is probably how they justify their reasoning to consider people with a similar situation to be threats to public safety – when you get a charge such as 2nd sexual assault with a minor, they tack on another charge that perhaps you won’t know until you’re being sentenced, and that extra charge is: “Risk of Injury To A Minor”. And that’s how you are deemed a threat. I’d like the legislature to explain how I either injured her or risked her injury.
        They claim it’s the teen’s “morals” that I injured. WHAT!!!??
        What if she was previously sexual active and a teenager mother? How did I risk her injury or her “morals”?

        So yeah, that’s my take on what you mentioned.
        Let’s all STOP referring to ourselves as “sex offenders” in the present tense.

        • #41136 Reply
          Avatar
          Kendal

          I generally refer to myself as “A Registered Sex Offender” because as you say I am not currently, or will ever be a sex offender again, but I am still a “Registered Sex Offender” or if that term doesn’t work for the situation I refer to myself as a “Registered Person” I don’t even like the term “Registered Citizen” because I feel that the term Registered negates the term Citizen so that becomes an oxymoron, but registered person is quickly becoming that same oxymoron.

    • #41041 Reply
      Avatar
      Chris Anson

      These discussions about injustice are frustrating for several reasons. Not the least among them is the reality that legislators typically passed these laws because they viewed such legislation as serving the interests of their constituents. Thanks to “Megan’s Law”, when most constituents in a district think about sex offenses, they tend to think of the most horrific crimes they have seen publicized. They do not know, nor can they be expected to know, the sweeping scope of the laws that were subsequently passed in the misguided efforts to protect the public.

      Emotions tend to obscure rational thought. And I suspect that just the term “sex offense” tends to elicit thoughts that are far more hideous than what has occurred in the majority of the cases being adjudicated (or increasingly, plea-bargained). Because of this, I have doubts that public appeals by groups of sex offenders will get much traction. When it comes to punishment and justice, people tend to become activists only when they are personally affected and can see and experience the injustice first hand. The truth is that there are many injustices in our society, so changing egregious sex offense registries must take its place in line among many other worthy reform projects competing for the public’s attention.

      Moreover, hypocrisy is alive and well in every neighborhood. I have no doubt that for every offense prosecuted, 5 or more go unreported. And of course, hypocrisy is alive and well in Congress, where actions are finally being taken to remove the self-serving protections that members have long enjoyed for sexual harassment charges by their office workers.

      In light of all of the above, perhaps the most effective strategies should rest on (a) cost/benefit analyses to show the public that their taxes are not being used wisely, and (b) finding a way to make it clear that even innocent acts in the home can result in horrendous consequences for everyday people (which the vast majority sex offenders are). As an example, I refer readers to the coach in Mankato who had his life destroyed because some well-intentioned IT worker found pictures he took of his kids playing in the bathtub on his phone after he provided it for routine upgrading. It is also worth noting that no reform of sex offender laws will take place as long as there are extreme, Bible-thumping zealots in power— regardless of party. Political moderation must prevail in order for sex offense registry reform to occur. Sad to say we are nowhere near that political state at the moment in this country.

    • #41071 Reply
      Avatar
      Ben H.

      It is a non punitive scheme… I after suffering a break up in 2014 overdosed on Xanax (60mg, purposefully) 2 days after moving back to my parents house, after I was moved to a mental hospital for five days then, transferred to county jail to await my probation revocation for the attempted suicide, I was called down to meet with a detective.

      The detective advised me I had failed to notify the state police I had moved back to my parents house within three days, even though before the third day was over I was hospitalized (302’d I did not have the ability to leave the hospital.)

      Thankfully warren county Pennsylvania was nice, instead of running a probation revocation consecutive to the new higher degree felony (F2), I was sentenced to 2 to 4 years in state prison for the probation revocation and 3-10 years for the failure to comply with (Sorna) registration requirements.

      Because I did not fight it I only had to serve 3 years in state prison (turned out to be 3 and a half, I was released last November).

      Disclaimer: I was convicted on 3 counts of possession of child pornography when I was 19 years old in 2011, I am 27 now on parole and trying to put the pieces of my life back together. I plan to attend college soon. Also, originally I was sentenced to 30 days in county jail for my initial offenses and was placed on life time registry, after A.S. V State Police I was dropped to a 10 year level 1 offender.

      Also even though I was sentenced before the registry laws I violated where in effect in PA, even though it has been held to be unconstitutional when applied rectroactively, even though I no longer have to abide by the more onerous requirements in Pennsylvania. I have no recourse to fight the failure to comply with registration requirements, as I did not file an appeal within one year the sentencing for it, even though at the time it was assumed to be constitutional (Muniz would overturn my conviction, except the courts in Pennsylvania now argue that even though the decision was striking down retroactive application of SORNA laws, the decision in itself is not to be retroactively applied).

      I just want to move on with my life, I want a degree and a family, just to meet someone who could love me. I broke the law committing my first offense of that there is no doubt and I have never said I did not.

      I have coped over the years by abusing drugs on a daily basis when I wasnt in prison, I now attend AA and NA meetings and I am scared I will be ostracized when the members find out I am a sex offender, I am scared to one day walk into work and see on my coworkers faces that I am a sex offender and they finally know. I do not attend family gatherings because I can not stay sober and handle the shame and guilt I have burdened onto them.

      I love meeting people and making friends, but when they finally find out I am a sex offender, well it makes me seek isolation, drugs, and it turns out I actually hate making friends.

    • #41072 Reply
      Avatar
      Citizen

      WOW! This is the first time I’m seeing multiple posts about sit-ins and government protests. Are we fed up yet?

      • #41087 Reply
        Sandy Rozek
        Sandy Rozek
        Admin

        The time may be getting close.
        The suggestion that someone like NARSOL who has the email addresses of commenters and access, as anyone does who wants it, to state registries with addresses of registrants sounds good, but this is what we have found to be the reality.
        Five or six years ago I personally was involved in the first attempt to contact a large number of registrants in a large portion of a given state. The returns were dismally few. We have continued, each year increasing our output in various states. The returns remain dismally few.
        On the other hand, when we reach out to those who have, of their own volition, joined NARSOL and contributed to NARSOL and volunteer with NARSOL, the results are better. But that number, compared to the massive number of registrants and their family members, is more than dismally small. It is pathetically small, but they are awesome, and we are grateful for each and every one of them, and with their support we do so much.
        I think the take-away here is that the incentive to change must come from within those who need the change the most. We try to stir that need to change with legal action where possible and with conferences and this website and articles like this one. The legal actions will chip away slowly, and every step forward is a step to celebrate. But until the people themselves rise up together, it will go slowly for a long time. And the people do not need to congregate in huge numbers in Washington. Start where you are. Join your NARSOL state group. Twenty or thirty of you show up at your state capitol at public hearings in support of or in opposition to legislation. Sign up to speak. Be part of the process. The states that are seeing the most action are states that do this…Texas, Illinois, Connecticut, Colorado, to name just a few. It works at the local level. In a TX town not long ago residency restrictions were being considered. A group of citizens, including registrants, went to the meeting and made it clear they did not want such restrictions. They knew the research. The restrictions were voted down because that was what the people wanted.
        This is too long…sorry.

        • #41108 Reply
          Avatar
          Maestro

          Sandy,

          When you notify registrants of the action you’re attempting to take and ask them to get involved, do you also suggest to them that if they don’t want to personally put themselves out there, that maybe they have a relative or close friend that would join on their behalf? So many families are affected by this crap so surely someone’s parents or whoever they live with would like to say some things in protest about the ridiculousness of it all.

          Imagine, all the younger people on the registry not being able to attend family gatherings or go to the amusement park with their families and younger siblings.
          If the registrant him/herself is too scared to attend, maybe someone close to them isn’t and will take part. Just a thought 🤷🏻‍♂️

          • #41112 Reply
            Fred
            Fred
            Admin

            We are in the habit of asking everyone to tell their friends and family about NARSOL and encourage them to get involved. Probably more than half of the people involved with NARSOL are not registrants themselves, but family members or friends of a registrant. We even have some “concerned citizens” with us who have no direct connection to a registrant.
            Our conference is in two weeks. Is there any chance you can join us there?

          • #41117 Reply
            Avatar
            Maestro

            I’m actually preparing to be at a film convention in mid June so all my financial resources are tied up in that.
            But I have been wanting to attend your conferences. Perhaps the next one.

        • #41120 Reply
          Avatar
          Citizen

          I would add that the people who are in need of the change the most are the ones who are the most removed from this recourse. Most of us don’t know about activist support for reform. Most of us aren’t able to use the internet. All those Floridian men and women living in tent camps probably don’t even know about NARSOL. Most people on probation or parole for sex crimes aren’t allowed to use the internet. And, most family members either don’t care, or have jumped on the bandwagon of scarlet letter branding themselves. Maybe some paper propaganda or billboards would be a good idea. People might take the chance or scrounge up the gumption to seek this, and other recourses out it they had the knowledge.

        • #46790 Reply
          Avatar
          Ed

          Are we talking about a non-violent sex offense equivalent to the 1969 Stonewall riots? That was a pivotal event in the gay rights movement. Historically, gays had been vilified, ostracized, harassed, jailed, assaulted and closeted. Hmmmmm, does that sound familiar?

          A news report this morning profiled an Indianapolis police chase that ended with an officer using his vehicle to run into a fleeing suspect. The initial responses from most people was one of outrage. It will be interesting to see if that changes when more become aware that the offense was failure to register.

    • #41133 Reply
      Avatar
      Saddles

      The sex registry is non-punitive must be some type of record playing in the backgerounds of peoples minds. You know this country has always been a give away or throw away country.. Those people in blue don’t want to see one locked up but they bind a lot of hardships on people’s back.

      Now we all can coment till we are all blue in the face. I even mentioned its not about religion. I wonder if its about the planet of the apes, nah.. Its about power and overcoming others in a lot of this ordeal scheme. Look at those people in Florida. You know there is a saying, Render to Ceaser what is Ceasers. Are we all Ceasers caught up in this dilemna or did we get caught up in some Catch-22 scheme.

      I wonder who’s right on here with these comments. Sure when I got involved in this I checked out WOW and their little site as well as this one even little Derek’s site. I was a bit more comfortable with NARSOL’s site as even the comments had meaning . Sure I get off on Righteousness and basically Righteousness is a rule book of what is right. Is life a one way street or a two way street. Do we all poke sally annie or do we confess or get betrayed by those who are suppose to protect us such as in these computer internet sting things. So what is punitive those welding the sword or those monitoring others. If human wisdom can solve a lot of this than more power to the people. There is one thing about power, we the people are not Ceaser’s to render. So who’s justice is right.

    • #41150 Reply
      Avatar
      Barry

      Fred, when Narsol comes to my state to hold a conference, I will move mountains to attend!!! Until then, I am not going to travel 7 states so they can potentially force me to register for “passing” by their state with money I do not have for I am unemployed and unemployable here due to the sex offender registry I live with family members that do not like me at all and constantly threaten me with throwing me out, but have not because I have something on them if they do that will be problematic to them. NO, I have not found better living conditions.

      Sandy, has it occurred to you that some folks are just scared so much after what they have gone thru from accusations thru convictions and the aftermath of all and after what has been done to many of them thru the injustices and horror stories many have posted that perhaps, they just did not/do not trust you or anyone that initially would contact them with with some “positive” “benevolent” act to help them or invite them to a “conference” to have them share their story. Not everyone one wants to re-live details of their lives. They have enough with living everyday under the label “sex offender” plus, many have been put into a position of trusting no one. Not their fault, but the registry and society!

    • #41177 Reply
      Avatar
      Rajendra

      Hope one day not only this registry is abolished but the United States government will have to pay to each person in the registry for the making their life a living hell, similar to what the German government is/was forced to pay for each holocaust survivor.

      • #41199 Reply
        Avatar
        Barry

        Rajendra, you can forget that notion. The US Government, in my opinion based on my own observation, rather give billions of dollars and more to foreign entities and their needs as well as to non citizens than to actually take care of their own citizenry. Even far much less concern for the ” sexual criminal community” in this Country that has met the stipulation set by our laws to meet sentencing time as well as any other punishments after having done the time per the laws. I think at this point of reality that efforts are better placed in exploring the ways to legally leave this crap hole of a Country to greener pastures which of course, may never happen for they have us hostages (somehow legally apparently).

        Definition of hostage
        1 a : a person held by one party in a conflict as a pledge pending the fulfillment of an agreement
        b : a person taken by force to secure the taker’s demands
        2 : one that is involuntarily controlled by an outside influence

    • #41205 Reply
      Avatar
      Anonymous

      Probation is crushing. CRUSHING! With NO relief for good behavior or compliance!! None!! Once I am “off paper” I am going to live my life as a completely free ex-con. I will not be barred from any “places.” I will not “register” while traveling through the beautiful states of this country. I will NOT register Period! BECAUSE I will have served my sentence and I will be just as free a citizen as my neighbors.

    • #41230 Reply
      Avatar
      Don’t tread on me

      I don’t know how an uprising has not occurred yet given this is unconstitutional, tyrannical, and affects every fiber of your life. These types of injustice is the spark for domestic unrest.

      • #41259 Reply
        Avatar
        Maestro

        Don’t Tread on Me,

        An uprising has not occurred because “we’re scared”. Because it’s been put into the minds of society that a sexual offense is an offense similar to what happened to Megan Kanka. We all want to rape and murder CHILDREN.
        No one thinks about the CONSENSUAL relationships with post pubescent teens who CHOOSE to be with older people or lie about their ages to older people.
        And no one is actually speaking to the public about it either. The public takes “Law & Order: SVU” as a documentary rather than a fictional, scripted TV show of propaganda and brainwashing.

        Someone should probably make a comment in the news media that all the little goodie two shoes who are obsessed with sex crime shows must be secretly interested in doing something sexually criminal. Why else would there be an obsession about it?
        Now….that may sound outlandish to say that but think about all the outlandish things said about us by the public who THINKS they can read our minds.
        Here’s an example; If you happen to like a classic film from your childhood such as “The Neverending Story” but you dared to watch it again NOW, a probation officer, a sex offender treatment group crackerjack box “therapist” and society itself would SUGGEST that you’re attracted to the kids in the movie.
        Never mind that you’ve loved the movie since YOU yourself were a kid.
        So, what’s the obsession with the sex crime TV shows America? Huh? Tell us.

    • #41452 Reply
      Avatar
      cocoa

      Hello,

      We don’t know what to do because this is how it is in our case:
      My husband is American and I am not.
      He was residing overseas when the crime was activated as a criminal in the state of Louisiana for failure to register, which it was mandatory according to the rules that he inform ahead to the local police his intention of leaving. So, he did inform through a certified letter which has the name of the officer with plaque number and signature , but it looks like it wasn’t enough and it looks like he had to go in person even though it say it had to be written and stated to the local police. We say it ” looks like” because it has been 7 years he hasn’t been able to come back to USA. The country activated a warrant for his arrest for 30 years in prison with hard labor, which now, suddenly changed by 20 years ( rules internally changed) and why can´t we fight this back ? Because even though we have contacted thousands of lawyers from overseas , my husband has no right for a lawyer, so even if he want to prove all the evidence he doesn’t have a chance. In Louisiana you do not have right for a lawyer if you failure to register. So overseas, undocumented American with a crime he did not committed… because as Megan law was not activated in 1994 he pleaded guilty for only Endangerment of a child ( no sexual ) all sexual crimes were dismissed . But the system that goes state by state made a mistake and put him on the registry , not having to… he was tier 1 did not have to register for a while, then suddenly in a hearing in Louisiana they overruled what the Supreme court of PA said Tier 1 and put him in tier 2, now having to register again and now for many more years.
      And look this is another thing… it was a teenager of 16 years old who accused him 22 yrs old- after of him being in jail for other charges – one year later !!… the story made by the girl was a scam and he doesn’t know why ( but one can only speculate as she was the daughter of a pastor of a church.. why not to blame the dude in jail for this pregnancy or who knows… ) an stupidly my husband accepted the charges not thinking there were going to be any consequences later on . As the time in jail was already done, paid , so advised by the public defender he accepted the charges. No other crime before nor after that.

      Now in this case in particular, in only one we can see all the human rights violation of this registry . Myself I do not have the right to residence unless going through a strict test, but he has no right to give me residence in USA as he looses many civil rights and one of those is to file for his wife to obtain residency.
      So here in one couple, all the hate, intolerance and shame of the united states in us overseas.
      As a foreigner I say: United States you do not take care of your people. If I had to say some thing s to USA supposing USA is your father I would say: You embarrass them, you take all their dignity . You hate many of your children who are near you and among you, black, fat, gay, Mexicans,Cubans, foreigners, poor, addicts and many many more, but that is your genes, that is you, you are all colors all faces all races and that is the beauty of it and you are blind, you cant see nor appreciate it . United States really take care of your children, give dignity and be proud of who they are , first give love to Americans, health, peace, , take the nose from other children of all other countries- not your business- and look at your own home. It is a mess! Clean it, fix it, love it. Now look what you did ? You created a group in your own house . All your kids litte by little every day going to that room and in that room they can not move, they can not speak they can not play, they can not work , That is your sex offenders … a social group with the only purpose of being discriminated by others and in society and punished for life.

      United States and many countries agreed with the United Nations on how to -lets say- treat human beings… that being said- the countries and you all agreed with a covenant to shape from this one the internal laws of the country -of the house. .. so United States you would have to abide by the International Civil Right Covenant. So, if you read what you signed you would see that with the Registry of sex offenders and our case itself here overseas undocumented without the right of lawyer, defense…you are not abiding by the Covenant , you have no word and shame on you and what you do to your own.

      This law was created to agree all together on a Civil Rights and countries that do not belong to the United Nations, things like Sex Registry could happen, like hurting your wife with stones until death, like mutilating parts of your body as punishment for crimes , so this for my point of view as a foreigner to the USA is underworld.My country may be a third world country but at least we have the basics and essential, real freedom and not the one fake of US movies and the thing is that we try to be better and better everyday while US worst and worst everyday as an effort to do so. USA CERTAINLY does not represent a first world country, and America is a first world country. I think that title should be removed , honestly. You can not create a social group and punish it in society for a public service to the community denigrating human beings like animals in jail to be watch and monitored. I hope people do not misunderstand me . I love Americans, I am married to one, I love the culture , and clothes, music and people and celebrations , this has nothing to do with that… this has to do with freedom and humanity. If we would be free I would live in America of course, but that is not the reality, maybe my kids would have to have a GPS inplanted under their skin and I don’t like that. I don’t what to have a home and everybody pointing it out or having to write a big board outside in my yard stating hey neighbor and friends::here leaves a sex offender!!. See I want dignity for my husband, my kids, my family and my self. But if one day all is gone all pass, of couse I would love o go and try the american life style for a while.

      I am sorry to say so much , still not enough. . We are fighting this from here.

      For those who doesnt know : The United Nations Human rights
      PART II

      Article 2

      1. Each State Party to the present Covenant undertakes to respect and to ensure to all individuals within its territory and subject to its jurisdiction the rights recognized in the present Covenant, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status.
      Article 7: No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. In particular, no one shall be subjected without his free consent to medical or scientific experimentation.
      Article 9 :3. Anyone arrested or detained on a criminal charge shall be brought promptly before a judge or
      other officer authorized by law to exercise judicial power and shall be entitled to trial within a reasonable time or to release. It shall not be the general rule that persons awaiting trial shall be detained in custody, but release may be subject to guarantees to appear for trial, at any other stage of the judicial proceedings, and, should occasion arise, for execution of the judgment.
      Article 10: 1. All persons deprived of their liberty shall be treated with humanity and with respect for the inherent dignity of the human person.
      2.(a) Accused persons shall, save in exceptional circumstances, be segregated from convicted persons and shall be subject to separate treatment appropriate to their status as unconvicted persons;
      Article 11:Article 11 No one shall be imprisoned merely on the ground of inability to fulfil a contractual obligation
      Article 14 1. All persons shall be equal before the courts and tribunals. In the determination of any criminal charge against him, or of his rights and obligations in a suit at law, everyone shall be entitled to a fair and public hearing by a competent, independent and impartial tribunal established by law. The press and the public may be excluded from all or part of a trial for reasons of morals, public order (ordre public) or national security in a democratic society, or when the interest of the private lives of the parties so requires, or to the extent strictly necessary in the opinion of the court in special circumstances where publicity would prejudice the interests of justice; but any judgement rendered in a criminal case or in a suit at law shall be made public except where the interest of juvenile persons otherwise requires or the proceedings concern matrimonial disputes or the guardianship of children.
      2. Everyone charged with a criminal offense shall have the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law.
      (d) To be tried in his presence, and to defend himself in person or through legal assistance of his own choosing; to be informed, if he does not have legal assistance, of this right; and to have legal assistance assigned to him, in any case where the interests of justice so require, and without payment by him in any such case if he does not have sufficient means to pay for it;
      6. When a person has by a final decision been convicted of a criminal offense and when subsequently his conviction has been reversed or he has been pardoned on the ground that a new or newly discovered fact shows conclusively that there has been a miscarriage of justice, the person who has suffered punishment as a result of such conviction shall be compensated according to law, unless it is proved that the non-disclosure of the unknown fact in time is wholly or partly attributable to him.

      Stay together and strong. All shall pass.
      Cocoa

    • #41453 Reply
      Avatar
      cocoa

      Hello,

      We don’t know what to do because this is how it is in our case:
      My husband is American and I am not.
      He was residing overseas when the crime was activated as a criminal in the state of Louisiana for failure to register, which it was mandatory according to the rules that he inform ahead to the local police his intention of leaving. So, he did inform through a certified letter which has the name of the officer with plaque number and signature , but it looks like it wasn’t enough and it looks like he had to go in person even though it say it had to be written and stated to the local police. We say it ” looks like” because it has been 7 years he hasn’t been able to come back to USA. The country activated a warrant for his arrest for 30 years in prison with hard labor, which now, suddenly changed by 20 years ( rules internally changed) and why can´t we fight this back ? Because even though we have contacted thousands of lawyers from overseas , my husband has no right for a lawyer, so even if he want to prove all the evidence he doesn’t have a chance. In Louisiana you do not have right for a lawyer if you failure to register. So overseas, undocumented American with a crime he did not committed… because as Megan law was not activated in 1994 he pleaded guilty for only Endangerment of a child ( no sexual ) all sexual crimes were dismissed . But the system that goes state by state made a mistake and put him on the registry , not having to… he was tier 1 did not have to register for a while, then suddenly in a hearing in Louisiana they overruled what the Supreme court of PA said Tier 1 and put him in tier 2, now having to register again and now for many more years.
      And look this is another thing… it was a teenager of 16 years old who accused him 22 yrs old- after of him being in jail for other charges – one year later !!… the story made by the girl was a scam and he doesn’t know why ( but one can only speculate as she was the daughter of a pastor of a church.. why not to blame the dude in jail for this pregnancy or who knows… ) an stupidly my husband accepted the charges not thinking there were going to be any consequences later on . As the time in jail was already done, paid , so advised by the public defender he accepted the charges. No other crime before nor after that.

      Now in this case in particular, in only one we can see all the human rights violation of this registry . Myself I do not have the right to residence unless going through a strict test, but he has no right to give me residence in USA as he looses many civil rights and one of those is to file for his wife to obtain residency.
      So here in one couple, all the hate, intolerance and shame of the united states in us overseas.
      As a foreigner I say: United States you do not take care of your people. If I had to say some thing s to USA supposing USA is your father I would say: You embarrass them, you take all their dignity . You hate many of your children who are near you and among you, black, fat, gay, Mexicans,Cubans, foreigners, poor, addicts and many many more, but that is your genes, that is you, you are all colors all faces all races and that is the beauty of it and you are blind, you cant see nor appreciate it . United States really take care of your children, give dignity and be proud of who they are , first give love to Americans, health, peace, , take the nose from other children of all other countries- not your business- and look at your own home. It is a mess! Clean it, fix it, love it. Now look what you did ? You created a group in your own house . All your kids litte by little every day going to that room and in that room they can not move, they can not speak they can not play, they can not work , That is your sex offenders … a social group with the only purpose of being discriminated by others and in society and punished for life.

      United States and many countries agreed with the United Nations on how to -lets say- treat human beings… that being said- the countries and you all agreed with a covenant to shape from this one the internal laws of the country -of the house. .. so United States you would have to abide by the International Civil Right Covenant. So, if you read what you signed you would see that with the Registry of sex offenders and our case itself here overseas undocumented without the right of lawyer, defense…you are not abiding by the Covenant , you have no word and shame on you and what you do to your own.

      This law was created to agree all together on a Civil Rights and countries that do not belong to the United Nations, things like Sex Registry could happen, like hurting your wife with stones until death, like mutilating parts of your body as punishment for crimes , so this for my point of view as a foreigner to the USA is underworld.My country may be a third world country but at least we have the basics and essential, real freedom and not the one fake of US movies and the thing is that we try to be better and better everyday while US worst and worst everyday as an effort to do so. USA CERTAINLY does not represent a first world country, and America is a first world country. I think that title should be removed , honestly. You can not create a social group and punish it in society for a public service to the community denigrating human beings like animals in jail to be watch and monitored. I hope people do not misunderstand me . I love Americans, I am married to one, I love the culture , and clothes, music and people and celebrations , this has nothing to do with that… this has to do with freedom and humanity. If we would be free I would live in America of course, but that is not the reality, maybe my kids would have to have a GPS inplanted under their skin and I don’t like that. I don’t what to have a home and everybody pointing it out or having to write a big board outside in my yard stating hey neighbor and friends::here leaves a sex offender!!. See I want dignity for my husband, my kids, my family and my self. But if one day all is gone all pass, of couse I would love o go and try the american life style for a while.

      I am sorry to say so much , still not enough. . We are fighting this from here.

      For those who doesnt know : The United Nations Human rights
      PART II

      Article 2

      1. Each State Party to the present Covenant undertakes to respect and to ensure to all individuals within its territory and subject to its jurisdiction the rights recognized in the present Covenant, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status.
      Article 7: No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. In particular, no one shall be subjected without his free consent to medical or scientific experimentation.
      Article 9 :3. Anyone arrested or detained on a criminal charge shall be brought promptly before a judge or
      other officer authorized by law to exercise judicial power and shall be entitled to trial within a reasonable time or to release. It shall not be the general rule that persons awaiting trial shall be detained in custody, but release may be subject to guarantees to appear for trial, at any other stage of the judicial proceedings, and, should occasion arise, for execution of the judgment.
      Article 10: 1. All persons deprived of their liberty shall be treated with humanity and with respect for the inherent dignity of the human person.
      2.(a) Accused persons shall, save in exceptional circumstances, be segregated from convicted persons and shall be subject to separate treatment appropriate to their status as unconvicted persons;
      Article 11:Article 11 No one shall be imprisoned merely on the ground of inability to fulfil a contractual obligation
      Article 14 1. All persons shall be equal before the courts and tribunals. In the determination of any criminal charge against him, or of his rights and obligations in a suit at law, everyone shall be entitled to a fair and public hearing by a competent, independent and impartial tribunal established by law. The press and the public may be excluded from all or part of a trial for reasons of morals, public order (ordre public) or national security in a democratic society, or when the interest of the private lives of the parties so requires, or to the extent strictly necessary in the opinion of the court in special circumstances where publicity would prejudice the interests of justice; but any judgement rendered in a criminal case or in a suit at law shall be made public except where the interest of juvenile persons otherwise requires or the proceedings concern matrimonial disputes or the guardianship of children.
      2. Everyone charged with a criminal offense shall have the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law.
      (d) To be tried in his presence, and to defend himself in person or through legal assistance of his own choosing; to be informed, if he does not have legal assistance, of this right; and to have legal assistance assigned to him, in any case where the interests of justice so require, and without payment by him in any such case if he does not have sufficient means to pay for it;
      6. When a person has by a final decision been convicted of a criminal offense and when subsequently his conviction has been reversed or he has been pardoned on the ground that a new or newly discovered fact shows conclusively that there has been a miscarriage of justice, the person who has suffered punishment as a result of such conviction shall be compensated according to law, unless it is proved that the non-disclosure of the unknown fact in time is wholly or partly attributable to him.

      Stay together and strong. All shall pass.
      Cocoa

    • #42710 Reply
      Avatar
      Tammie Leigh Lawson

      Not punishment! I have been registered for over 15 years and every year there are more and more laws passed that cause punishment not only to me but my family as were restricted as to where we can and cant go what we can and can not do. Recently I was approached by a school secretary who went to the police and Commonwealth Attorneys office to request a certificate letter be mailed to me about where I can and cannot be even tho I know what I can do these narrow minded people do t have a clue. I’m 49 years old my son is 30 years old now he was 14 when he engaged in consensual sex with a adult female not in my home either mind you nor was he in my custody. I finally reported that crime and because I didn’t report it in a timely manner and knew about it before I reported it I’m now listed as a Violent Sex Offender for life. I have custody of 4 grandkids who are is sports I’m not allowed to attend. I can’t gi to school parent teacher conferences, plays etc. Now I’m being told that I cant gi ti a Rec. Center, playground, park, and I know the code in my state for this. According to the citizens in my town I’m to sit at home and be quiet because no one wants to here from me and my children and grandchildren had been harrassed, humiliated. This is my point how is it not punishment after the fact. I went to prison dine my probation been clean and free over 15 years how is this not proven facts that I deserve a decent life? I suffer from mental anguish alot, tears flow like a river somedays especially when I feel threatened or bullied by people who butt is clean and without flaw. I just don’t understand why I’m where I am but God didn’t give me more than I could handle so I’ll do the best I can until someday I can make hedgeway for a new beginning.

    • #75111 Reply
      Avatar
      jerrit montgomery

      Yea hey my name is Jerrit Montgomery from new orleans after Katrina i moved to baton rouge started in a relationship with a woman who was not right but tried to leave she put charges on me (if i can’t have you no one can)2006 I DID PLEA GUILTY BUT I KNOW AND SHE KNOW IM innocent this is hard but how could you punish someone with a punitive punishment on something that is non punitive she is still trying to make up now it be ten years

Viewing 22 reply threads
Reply To: The sex offender registry: a non-punitive civil regulatory scheme
We welcome a lively discussion with all view points provided that they stay on topic - keeping in mind...

  • *You must be 18 or older to comment.
  • *You must check the "I am not a robot" box and follow the recaptcha instructions.
  • *Your submission must be approved by a NARSOL moderator.
  • *Moderating decisions may be subjective.
  • *Comments arguing about political or religious preferences will be deleted.
  • *Excessively long replies will be rejected, without explanation.
  • *Be polite and courteous. This is a public forum.
  • *Do not post in ALL CAPS.
  • *Stay on topic.
  • *Do not post contact information for yourself or another person.
  • *Please enter a name that does not contain links to other websites.

  • *DO NOT POST LINKS TO OTHER WEBSITES
Your information:





<a href="" title="" rel="" target=""> <blockquote cite=""> <code> <pre class=""> <em> <strong> <del datetime="" cite=""> <ins datetime="" cite=""> <ul> <ol start=""> <li> <img src="" border="" alt="" height="" width="">