Atlanta RSOL Conference 2016 take-away: Whose voice is missing?
By Michael Rosenberg . . . This year’s RSOL conference in Atlanta was the author’s first, as speakers from across the country brought to bear upon an audience ready and needful of informative lectures and empathetic, well-sourced thought-pieces a whole host of ideas long overdue.
Correction: these ideas have been in existence since the first Dolphin was trapped in the net meant largely for sharks. Craig Hallenstein promotes realism and understanding versus fiction and hatred in his fictive novel The Dolphin. The premise given the audience has to do with the danger of creating large nets which are theorized to catch predatory animals, yet without being evidence-based. Akin to throwing hand-grenades in the proverbial barrel of fish – certainly some will float to the top – but at what cost? Rather than being another uncaring, hyper-fueled yet personally unaware being who spits at those who the net has caught, Hallenstein recognizes in his earth-tilting work of truth-based fiction the unfortunate dolphins trapped in an unfeeling, mindless net.
Nothing but a coffin, the registry and its limitations has been given positive hatred by the uninitiated, the untried.
“Who, me? Couldn’t be,” seems to be what proponents like Mr. John Walsh say when they are caught in the ever-widening sex offender net. What is good for some is not good for others, is his claim when Mr. Walsh defends his past underage sexual partners. Well, that is just the kind of ignorance we were fighting this weekend. Thank you for the illustration of the broken system, from the originator of the Adam Walsh Act.
The Catherine Carpenters, Larry Neelys and Janice Belluccis of the world have a deep understanding of the flawed system which works to uphold the registry. This weekend, the speakers busted myths. Look too carefully at the facts, as we did, and the recidivism rates of registered citizens belie the absurdity of the “registry for safety” falsity.
What did the author learn? That to be a sex offender today, he can learn to refute the unhappy citizens who lose nothing by berating folks unknown yet loathed. Should he fail to refute, should he hide in his basement between visits from the parole agent, there will be only the loud ones shouting. Loud isn’t right. It isn’t best. It is, however, loud. And the only voice. For now.
The attendees gathered to hover around a spark of hope, temporarily restrained, fearful of missteps, ready but lacking certainty. Certainty has apparently been reserved for the other side. The other side is full of judges, both sworn and un-, the job ours to educate. For if we remain on the sidelines, if we fail to organize, those holding the puppet strings will have their way. Their way seems to be downhill and punitive. Ours might be described as hopeful and informed.
A blend of the sublime and ridiculous by necessity, mandatory appearance on the registry was given the thrice-over by Professor Catherine Carpenter, the opening speaker in our Holiday Inn Conference room. Kids who played with other kids were “child molesters”, lovers with the incorrect number of years between their ages were “predators”, and boys who played childish pranks forever labelled “Sexually deviant.”
John Douard taught that metaphors are really a frame for painting folks with one brush. And isn’t it easier to hate all sharks, to empty the sea of the beast, than to understand that not all behavior equals title of “monster”? Let’s discount his slightly erratic closing, as Douard worked to show how unlike the truth are these dangerous labels. The New Jersey professor gave food for thought which will undoubtedly help to feed a movement that is in its infancy in terms of growth, yet making its voice unabashedly heard in its dire struggle for a very real, very humanistic, completely deserved survival.
Janice Bellucci was trans-formative in her complete care for the cause. For her words to this author, gratitude. She stopped long enough to express thanks for a question in a lecture she attended as an audience member. Her gentle yet pressing words revealed to this registrant the need for others with her compassion, prowess, and drive. Ms. Bellucci’s is the attorney atop California’s very pressing civil rights abuses of sex offenders, a fact evident after a quick search of the arguments being brought to appellate courts in Cali on behalf of the under-loved population in attendance in Atlanta. Thanks to Bellucci, audience members learned that dignity is not something the courts can take away.
Mr. Larry Neely was in a number of talks, possibly the most memorable of which entitled Can They Do That? in which he teamed up with Schaffnit, Esq. to describe possible objections to parole/probation conditions and codicils. Memorable for the debate sparked by interested audience members, as well as for Neely’s ability to both organize the event and speak at nearly every break-out session in an impassioned yet entirely reasonable voice.
Steve Yoder gave an impressive refutation of five ill-conceived arguments for the shame(reg)istry. Not only was he clear and concise, Yoder gave those with the will enough firepower to overcome a whole neighborhood of hatred using well-sourced material. His blog is a specimen of authenticity and research.
Don’t believe everything you read. Everyone can change. Sex offenders do not, in general, continue to violate the law. Apparently, we have been chosen to fight legislation and misinformation which has created a toxic mix of angry and scared people. The key here is mis-informed. Let us prepare for an information war; you may not have ever wanted this task, but if not you, then who?
Full of love, we move into the future.
I think I speak for most of us when I say the reason it is hard for us to organize is twofold: Those on probation/parole are restricted from having internet access or talking to other offenders outside of a work environment, so they can’t be of help or they face legal consequences. As for the rest of us, and I am speaking on my own experience here, it became evident in larger communities that only a small percentage of people will ever bother to find our status. Once we go public with it, I feel we are inviting more ridicule directed our way. Social media accounts could be shut down for violating terms and conditions, jobs might find a reason to fire us to avoid association with the registry, and our neighbors and friends might shun us once they find out. Being an SO is similar to being gay or lesbian prior to the 70’s and 80’s. “Coming out” is rather a big deal for most of us. I’m trying to make that leap myself, but I would rather do it slowly to avoid bringing too much attention to myself initially.
Jeremy,
With all due respect I think I speak for the majority of registered citizens, it is a tiny contingent that would identify with the LGBTQ rights seeking approach. While I applaud the author of ‘The Dolphin’ for trying to raise public awareness of the tragedies that are the result of this perpetual punishment model of justice, his following to link our problem with the past civil rights and equality battles of ‘minority’ groups is a wrong-headed approach that really won’t ‘educate’ anyone correctly.
Most everyone (the general public person that has no close good relations or direct contact with a registered citizen) that finds the ‘bogeyman’ sex offender a shocking problem also finds the LGBTQ agenda a mass perversion of the created order. I believe, as I also believe do most registrants, the LGBTQ agenda is exactly that. To link the two is to confirm in the mind of the uninitiated that – ‘yep, I was right – those SOs are just freaky perverts like those lgbtq folks.’ The opposite is the truth.
There are a few interwoven main issues- 1. The fact that a hit list, uh, I mean a registry exists (it isn’t just for SOs only anymore) and, 2.The inhumane life restrictions that are placed on those convicted, and 3.The ridiculous social and professional career shunning that catches up to every registered citizen in any life pursuit
These are all based upon and rooted in mass media fear mongering tactics and induce regular ole’ people to take upon themselves the mantle of gang member to participate in gang-stalking like behavior against this ‘non-citizen,’ or in Orwellian terms ‘un-persons.’
This fact that the registry even exist is a basic human rights issue. A liberty-as-free-citizens issue.
DRASTICALLY UNLIKE the lgbtq advocates, we are not seeking to justify ‘perverted’ or aberrant sexual behavior that is currently criminal and have it be declared legal.
DRASTICALLY UNLIKE the lgbtq pushers, our battle is primarily about the over-criminalization of normal male sexual behavior. (the laws such that legal male behavior is only legal if it is approved by the final arbitrator >women ! – I realize this is short shrift – but this is just a reply to your comment)
DRASTICALLY UNLIKE the lgbtq agenda, we are responding in a defensive manner against the offensive laws that perpetuate overt and inhumane discrimination against persons that may have made a few minor mistakes, yet are faced with a remaining life of perpetual marginalization and torment that far outweighs any ‘crime’ committed or in comparison to any alleged victim’s suffering.
These ‘crimes’ are usually blown way out of proportion in the courts and made out to be much worse than what really happened. Too much emotionalism and not enough calm rational factual thinking surrounds this issue.
As we are each young (well, I’m 49, but I feel young) men fighting this same battle of public lynch mobism mentality, I may one day meet you.
Take care.
Greg
Greg,
I am sooooooooooooooooo confused by your post. I have no idea what the LGBT community has to do with the topic here. Sex offenses do happen in ALL communities but what is this LGBT or “gay agenda” everyone is talking about?
I am part of the LGBT (I’m a bisexual male and have no shame of it. I find both women and *some types of* males attractive. You can possibly say I simply find beauty in human beings) …anyway, I for one am not part of any “agenda”. I don’t have an agenda and I’m not so sure the gay community does either.
I believe the word “agenda” was thrown out there by non-LGBT folks in order to have something else negative to say to justify simply not allowing people to be who they are. If asking for acceptance and to be left the hell alone by those who don’t like human on human love is considered an “agenda” then so be it.
No one has the right to throw their religious beliefs down other people’s throats and I feel THAT is part of the reason the LGBT community has finally put their foot down about. So it get referred to as “an agenda”. No. It’s LIVE AND LET LIVE.
Not accepting the fact that we’re not all the same (we’re not puppets and robots) is what caused this “agenda” everyone speaks of.
It’s no different than harassing those who are in interracial relationships because in the minds of some folks, love is not based on happiness with another person, it’s supposed to be based on SAME RACE, opposite sex, good income, and any other superficial thing people come together for.
Perhaps the divorce rate wouldn’t be so high if people married out of TRUE LOVE rather than trying to make their parents happy by marrying the law student or the boy who comes from a wealthy family and has a yacht to show off to the would-be-bride.
Maestro,
I was responding directly to Jeremy’s post where he likened us to the position of the LGBTQ of a couple decades prior. Craig Hallenstein did the same thing except included other minority groups as well as a sort of ‘blueprint’ for us to identify with or maybe to ‘ride on the coattails’ of into a position of legitimacy in the public or legal sphere.
I am a heterosex white male and I can see where a homosex or bisex person may have a problem with the post as I wrote it. I do not mean to be insulting or demeaning and I apologize if it comes across as defamatory.
I am approaching this issue with the purpose of getting the wider public to realize there is an ‘agenda’ to subject the entire population to criminalization. I think the age of consent laws are part and parcel of the overreach of government control. But, I know RSOL has a specific disclaimer up front that says that changing those laws are not our intent or focus.
Regarding the use of the word ‘agenda’ for lgbtq, I mean the one’s pushing for law changes and school curricula changes and bathroom use law changes. ( I HAD to go badly #2 one time and could not wait in the line for the men’s room when the women’s was completely empty in a fast food place once – I went straight in there and used the toilet and left and no one was the wiser) I would prefer to not be in the women’s bathroom with women, but I would not care if women came into the men’s bathroom. Why would they do that though? But hey, would I be arrested for indecent exposure (a sex crime) if a woman was in the men’s room and sees me, haha?
In general the wider public, despite the laws changes, does not believe that lgbtq is a ‘legitimate’ lifestyle choice, and is at odds with the government making these law changes (like legal same-sex marriage).
I think the problems with our sex laws that, for one, create sex offenders, and two, oppress those convicted of those laws are rooted in an agenda to ‘control’ the public at large. I see this as over-criminalization of everyone doing normal things – making criminals when there really is no crime victim. I see a dire need to be on the same page with attempts to engage the wider public audience when education is the goal. The issues that the LGBTQ people had or have are quite different. In some ways there are apparent similarities, but in a root cause/effect relation, the differences are glaring.
Joe Public, the voter that these politicians pander to, is frustrated first with what he sees as undue attention and legal status found by LGBTQ persons and he is throwing his hands up and saying ‘dammit, what next, legalized bestiality! pedophilia?! those evil chomo sex offenders want legal status now , too ??!! Hell NO! ‘
See, we want Joe Public on our side. We want Joe Public to see that the ‘agenda’ that has ensnared those on the registry will eventually ensnare him. We want Joe Public to join us in the fight against the agenda to control, not be repulsed by thinking we are just a step or two deeper into the dark of perversion than the standard LGBTQ person.
Peace,
Greg
Greg,
I read your post and I was offended by it and wasn’t sure I wanted to bother with writing a reply. Then I read your attempt to say you didn’t mean to be insulting or demeaning but that is exactly what you meant to be.
You like to back up your bigoted views with statements such as “like most registrants” and “the wider pubic” don’t believe that being gay is a legitimate lifestyle. But FACTS show you are completely wrong. As a matter of FACT 70% of the public do think that gay relationships are moral and legitimate if they are between consenting adults. The FACT is that 61% of the public supports gay marriage. 83% of 18-29 year olds support gay marriage! Facts are awesome! So your views are in the minority not the majority as you claim.
I’ll let you find a statistic that shows that a majority of the public supports your assertion that the age of consent should be changed.
You said that the gay community is justifying “‘perverted’ or aberrant sexual behavior that is currently criminal and have it be declared legal” — What behavior are you talking about? I’m not aware of any criminal behavior the gay community is trying to get made legal. That battle has already been fought and won.
You said “our battle is primarily about the over-criminalization of normal male sexual behavior.” I disagree with you here. I am in no way trying to justify my sexual offense or change any age of consent laws. I will argue and justify my right to have a gay consensual relationship with another man. Your view of “normal male sexual behavior” is twisted to meet your justification needs I think.
I haven’t read the book yet but I want to. I think using other civil rights formats would be a good start to end the registry. You approach seems to be trying to justify that what you did shouldn’t be illegal to begin with, so you shouldn’t be on the registry.
The politicians and activists have made us SOs the boogeyman. They use fear to keep making more laws that take away our rights. That is the battle we need to fight. I would ask you to look at the source of your bigotry against gays but guessing that probably won’t happen. The theme I read in your post is “I might be a sex offender, but at least I’m not a perverted gay” and that somehow lessens what you did in your head and lets you minimize your behaviors to yourself. I’m not sure that is really working for you.
I am positive that trying to justify our offenses to the public is the wrong approach. Taking responsibility for our actions and showing that we respect the laws and aren’t an ongoing threat to the community is how we battle the registries. Your own post would ruin your argument before you even started making it.
To clarify exactly, I am not intending to insult or demean any individual.
I mean exactly what I wrote on the other subjects.
I did not precisely advocate for age of consent changes, as you mistakenly state. But, it is clear they are what they are for the benefit of making criminals out of persons engaging in victimless and consensual relationships.
If someone genuinely harms and victimizes a ‘child,’ well, we already have laws that pertain to harm and victimization realities, regardless of ages. Why would age difference have any special significance? Why, because we have a mistaken society wide belief that children are ‘special’ or innately innocent, and they are not. Children know how to lie and manipulate and connive AND they volunteer and are interested in learning about their bodies. They are happy to have friendly guidance from an adult sometimes. My main point here is that simply because sex contact happens, it is not necessarily creating in reality a victim that has suffered harm or injury.
In case you’re curious, I’ve never had nor do I want anything personally to do with children. My ‘sex’ crime did not involve a child. It is a non-contact misdemeanor and the alleged ‘victim’ was an adult male. It was a crazy misunderstanding between neighbors.
The laws of long ago had homosex behavior as illegal – the original reference was in reply to Jeremy’s reference of 70s and 80s – an era preceding the law changes that have us in the present homosex permissive culture.
I do not believe the statistics and percentages you cite are bona fide, irrefutable, or unbiased, purely-scientifically collected data. Most likely it is skewed and manipulated data. Many, many studies and polls could be cited, but only those done by reputable pollsters using unbiased methods are reliable.
Normal male sexual behavior is adult heterosex. That is what reproduces. That is what fathers are. Homosex is inherently self destructive and non-reproductive. If someone wants to lead a life of homosex behavior, as several of my relatives do, that is their private business.
To reiterate, my main point is how is RSOL going to want to portray itself in a public relations way? Like I wrote, we want press about RSOL and any contact the uninitiated public has with RSOL to be positive and to come across as a group that has the better interest of civil and human rights for all in mind. Better, of course, than the proponents of registries and strict laws based upon fear-mongering, myth and conjecture.
I spoke with several RSOL members at the Atlanta conference and I found the consensus does agree with my previous assertions. The desire of identification with the lgbtq advocates is not shared by most of those I asked. Of course, that was just me asking, nothing scientific about that. I was posting here being a voice for those I did speak with. Maybe RSOL should have a broader mission statement that clearly defines their position on this specific issue, and other issues as well??
Greg
Greg, and others.. We appreciate that you are engaging in this difficult communication with civility and respect for varying opinions. Please continue to do so. RSOL’s course is often difficult to navigate for the very reason that there are a multitude of divergent ideologies represented by the individuals who support our general goal: the elimination of public sex offender registries in addition to all the onerous restrictions and prohibitions that come with them. We take great pains not to alienate anyone on account of his or her perspectives about culture, politics, religion, or human sexuality (among other things). And we are vigilant in our efforts to form alliances with ALL groups and people who support our goal so long as such groups or people do not advocate lawlessness as a means to this end. Consequently, we stay quiet and reserved on questions related to age of consent laws because we recognize that the issue is highly controversial and not “strictly” related to the issues of registries or the restrictions which flow from registration.
Unfortunately the threads on here are limited so I have to respond out of order… As far as the studies:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/191645/americans-support-gay-marriage-remains-high.aspx
http://www.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx
Both are Gallup Polls, which I believe is a reliable source.
http://www.people-press.org/2016/03/31/2-views-on-immigration-diversity-social-issues/#same-sex-marriage-divides-gop-supporters-more-than-democrats
There is a Pew research showing 57% of people support gay marriage.
If you have some legitimate polls or studies that counter those I’d love to read them.
I am not trying to change your views, I’m sure you have your personal reasons that you feel the way you do about homosexuality. You made some blatantly false statements about gays and I was only trying to correct your false statements. Maybe just express your views about the gay community as your own and not make them as if you are supported by the majority of people or even the majority of other sex offenders.
We will agree to disagree on what “normal sexual behavior” is. Homosexuality is found in ALL species, not just us humans. I would argue that makes it pretty natural and a normal part of nature. Dolphins, apes, and penguins didn’t “learn” this behavior from some gay propaganda. I didn’t choose to be gay anymore than one day you chose to be straight.
The gay community is used to the rhetoric that you are expressing. It is usually by those who are battling hatred of themselves or covering up their own homosexual tendencies, such as Ted Haggard, Larry Craig, etc. It is those who express the most hatred and bigotry who usually end up getting arrested for or involved in a scandal regarding some sexual impropriety with another male… hmm.
I think as far as the registry and the need for change you and I could probably agree on many things. I think finding a way to get the general public to agree that the registry and other restrictions are wrong and unconstitutional is the goal. If the approach of the civil rights movement (for gays or others) is a path forward then what is wrong with that? My point is your approach of trying to defend any illegal or improper sexual relationship as a first step will stop anyone from listening. I have seen other posts that have been linked on this site where the general public’s response to any argument or ruling against the registry is that it sounds like we want to make sex with underage people okay. That is a non-starter for us gaining rights in regards to the misuse and abuse of the registry.
Ciao
My voice was missing and I wish it hadnt been. I am a man tempered wth a great deal of knowledge and would have been pleased to have a chance to speak. Let me begin by saying that those people who live in fear have every right to, but that does not give them the right to take away a persons citizenship.
Heres what I fear, that some drunk will destroy one of my childrens or family members lives, that some angry person will shoot one of my kids in a bar, that some prejudice moron wont give my kids a chance at a job, that some undertrained cop or prejudice cop will kill one of my sons over a traffic ticket, or that another crusader will come along and make life worse, or some overzealous prosecutor or judge tries to put away one of my children over some ridiculous law.
Point is there is no guarantee of safety for anyone, we all have to tolerate each others flaws from childhood through adulthood. But this is all a part of the human construct and reality, you just have to hope you and your family can escape these statistically inevitable events. If you want to blame someone, blame the creator, whoever you believe that to be.
My granchildren have to face this reality, and I hope they make it, but is something does hapen to them short of death I will tell them to pick themselves up and go on with their lives and to be grateful they have that chance, since so many people dont. Sure, let the law punish when necessary, but dont ever consider yourself a victim, except when you do nothing about whats hurting you. You cant be a victim if you try to correct something.
In short, live life as best as you can, you only get one to live.
That was very well written.
speaking of John Walsh, here is a comment I just read from him on CNN.com in an article entitled “If you were the moderator of the debate what question would you ask”
“As the father of a son who was kidnapped and brutally murdered, and as someone who has fought years for more resources to protect our nation’s most vulnerable, I have seen first-hand how every taxpayer dollar wasted on an ineffective justice system is one dollar not going to put away those that prey on our communities. There is currently bipartisan support in Congress to reform wasteful and outdated policies in our federal justice system. As president of the United States, what will you do specifically with members of Congress on both sides of the aisle to make our federal justice system smarter and more cost-effective?”
Hmmm. Does this mean he is not advocating for the SORNA Laws anymore?
The voice that is largely missing is the voice of actual registrants. Here we are in 2016, 20 years after Megan’s Flaw started posting people publicly on the Internet, and there are still too few people forced to register on this hit-list making their voices heard. Be it a public demonstration, a legislative hearing or a media interview, the voices of registered citizens themselves are not often heard. I have been heard more than most, but even then, those moments are simply me being treated as a novelty act. That isn’t a knock on our movement, but on registered folks in general.
I get lots of calls from registrants. Many just want resources (help finding a job/ residence/ attorney/ support group). Few join us, and fewer are willing to stand on the front lines out of fear. It seems many registrants are content with letting researchers and lawyers do the talking for us. Ultimately, we are feeding the stereotype of registrants s “cockroaches” or “vermin” who scurry away when the light shines on them. It is easy to dehumanize an invisible group. When we remain hidden, we merely set ourselves up for more dehumanization. I won’t stand for being compared to someone who raped and murdered someone and neither should you.
Million man march?? Anyone??? Let us consider the basics on logistics.
Just remember that both you gentlemen speak volumes of what this shady schematics is all about, in regard to being compelled to display past transgressions on contrast to future falsehoods. The “likelihood to reoffend” lie/phrase is nothing but misrepresented parameter to confuse citizens and intentionally to create a euphoric effect, laced with feel good policing. I had to literally fight to get off the registry in a technical sense but still remain on the books and unofficial sites due to the media exposure of my arrest and conviction. I am now in federal court as a plaintiff dealing with related fruits of the registry for which so far I’ve been successful on he pushback. The media seems to stifle in any significant message on behalf of the fallacies of the sex offender. Most communicative outlets treat offenders like diseased rejects and want no associative ties with such persons. There is no gray area or bermuda blind spot to navigate in this perpetual punishment. I ironically live in a state that would not publicly list or post level one offenders and I swiftly was removed from the registry in the state of conviction, when my petition was answered and address, but remain on the “books” in my state of residence. I am able to be released from that requirement in a few more years as well, but what does that leave one with socially and legally? I’m dismayed at the political posturing over offenders which leads me to allude in the International Megan’s Law, I can’t think of anything more elusive and disdainful as this enacted policy because it seems to arrest the development of a redeemed or rehabilitated citizen. The intent is deceptive as it is constricting against the fundamental rights of anyone in he free world. The complicitive nature of legislatures
and legal curators involved simply results into a financial windfall for the actors and participants. I have worked in government for a few decades and most recently the military and it is so sadistic as to what this world and our country is about now. I ask that we all take a bold step just short of comprising your own recovered reputation and speak out against the aforementioned injustices and research your rights to the core. Look for experts if you are digitally restricted and reach out to offenders once they are personally identified by you. The way of the world is wicked.
Do what has to be done be all means necessary!
I cannot live in the US with the situation like this; there’s very little or no prospect of a job (forget about good paying jobs), getting a room to live is very difficult and forget about any apartment complex renting to a personal labeled as a sex offender (I personally had to face a roommate who was very rude and offensive after he discovered that I was in the registry), no good prospect of family life, social life with former friends mostly gone their ways and don’t want to do anything with you, how can anyone live like this? I paid my price in jail time of about two years even though I was framed. What is any prospect in this country anyway? How can one even survive like this? And they are only making life even more difficult with new rules and ordinances.
You know, after reading these posts its obvious there is a lot of pain related to the sora’s and that it occupies our minds frequently. I suppose those who have been affected by sex abuse also think a lot about what happened to them. I’ve never been able to forget all of the traumas I have encountered in my lifetime, and there have been many of them.
Those traumas did great harm to me, and i’m still dealing with their effects. Its taken a great deal of self introspection to be able to recognize this reality. Sometimes I hate everything because of the anger and resentment I feel those traumas have led to what could he characterized as a very difficult life. Sometimes I just want to give up and move on to the next reality. I live this way everyday.
I miss the life I had, it was acceptable, even though I had a lot of financial problems, since I had a lot of difficulty holding down jobs. My wife helped out a lot, and never complained about my job problems, but we endured a lot of hardship. I feel a lot of redirect responsibility for my indiscretions but I also feel others laid the foundation for them. Its not easy to see how these things inter-relate.
I try to put a brave face on everyday, but this isolation and hopeless feeling that I will never be just a normal person again is overwhelming. Hell, i’ve been a victim all my life and this sora business is just another part of that whole drama. Nothing I haven’t already gone through before. Now consider what i’ve said and then apply it too a so called victim of a sex crime, and then maybe you can understand what they feel. I do understand, but still it does not justify what they are doing with these laws.
Anyways, time will take care of this business eventually, whether in my lifetime or another. Even I know we are not responsible for everything, we are a mirror of our reality, and world. These sora crusaders are just our opposites, but they are clueless.
I hear you man.
My opinion is that these SORA crusaders ARE “just like us”- they just don’t happen to be on a registry. Their motives are not pure and protecting the vulnerable is NOT their mission. We are the outlet for their shortcomings and emotional turmoil, that’s all.
President Obama vetoed the terrorism lawsuit bill that would enable Americans to sue countries that in some way support terrorism. Lol, if their countries passed similar laws this nation would go broke with all of the endless lawsuits. We kill more innocent people than some fascist nations and we are terrorists, cause if you don’t live like us, and think like us, you are our enemies. What a joke this country has become.
To Rick and others who have mentioned sexual abuse and victims’ feelings….
You may not like what I’m about to say but someone needs to start speaking REALITY and not “Law & Order: SVU” lingo…ready…? Here goes…
I know there are people who were actually sexually abused. However, that is not the case with most of the sex “offenses” that people are on the registry for. If you watch the local and national news when people are arrested for sex offenses, 9 times out of 10 it’s a consensual relationship between an older person and a person a year or so shy of legal age of consent.
It’s also a lot of legal age of consent students having relationships with teachers and because the older person is in a position of “power” the relationship is deemed “illegal”. This is HARDLY “abuse.
1) We never hear from the protected “alleged” victims. We get people speaking for them.
2) I was 15 when I sowed my wild oats with an older woman (legal age here is 16) so technically I am a “victim”. I enjoyed every moment of it and wanted to do it again but she declined after the one and only time. I do NOT want ANYONE speaking for me saying that I was sexually abused and forever damaged by something that comes NATURAL to ALL animal life (and yes, we ARE a form of animal).
3) There have been plenty of stories of “victims” marrying their so called “abusers” after the person served their time. Also, part of #3, there have been COUNTLESS young boys and girls who LIED about their ages and even tried to admit to the courts that it was their own fault and yet the older person was still held accountable and the younger person declared a “victim” who must be “protected” from the accused.
WTF is going on in this country?
Why do we SUGAR COAT anything to do with people convicted of sexual offenses by saying things like “they feel remorse for the poor victim”, etc, etc… Read and comprehend this carefully – the legal ages of consent are MADE UP by lawmakers. It’s not something made by any “higher power” or internal instinct. The people who made these laws can easily change them. They can bring the legal age UP or DOWN by a year or two.
Here in Connecticut the legal age is 16. Cross the state line into New York and suddenly the legal are is 17. Now wait a minute…. Who in the legislature gets to determine that a person old enough to operate a motor vehicle at 16 years old can somehow NOT make a consensual decision to engage in a sexual relationship with a 25 year old until he/she turns 17???
And if the person old enough to drive a car DOES in fact have a relationship at 16 with a 25 yr old, she’s a “victim” and didn’t know what she was doing and was taken advantage of by a “predator”…. WHAT!!!???? SPARE ME!
I’m so sick of the sugar coating and no one is standing up to say “Wait a minute! Where is there an actual VICTIM of an actual ASSAULT”?
I once read a news article about a couple who was (can’t fully remember…married or engaged to be…?) …anyway…the female was 16 (legal age in their state) and the male was 20+ or so. They MOVED to another state for his job and her future college. Well….the state that they moved to had a high age of consent law so guess what happened… YUP! They got found out and he got arrested. And SHE was considered a “victim” in a relationship that was already existing in their home state.
And all we can do is keep apologizing on behalf of ALL sex offenders and start talking about how we ALL feel bad about sexual “abuse”?
I feel bad about sexual abuse victims. But my idea of “abuse” is not a consensual relationship with a POST pubescent teenager. Sorry, not sorry for keeping it realistic.
Thank you for reading.
I agree with you in some ways. My point was only to address acts where real violence and abuse is really used, not statutory acts, and to emphasize that even then, a person has to move on. That was the point of my whole reply, cause I’m no bleeding heart. But even in some statutory cases some people are abused, and that’s a fact. I suppose you enjoyed your experience. It doesn’t mean everyone does.
But anyways, I fully understand mother nature, lol. My traumas had on effect on my personal borders, I just never realized their full effect. Like you, there’s an explanation for everything, but the only people who get sympathy are the victims, do you agree?
I get it, now you feel abused, don’t we all. I think if you read most of my replies you can see I am all in against soras, since all of the info is readily available through conviction sites, and clearly this society has no feelings for so’s. I think you missed my point entirely, but that’s ok. I’m tired of apologizing too, I just want to be able to forget, and move on and try to have some semblance of a life, but they wont let you. So I agree in some ways but don’t in others. Hope this clarifies my position for you.
To tell you the truth, maestro, I don’t have any sympathy left for anyone, or respect for a nation that violates its entire constitution, and enacts slavery like it’s candy. If I could tell you what I would really like to see happen to all of these “victimization” lovers, you would think twice. I’ve said this before, I’m tired of legitimizing people’s anger, victimization, and loss. People in this zoo are hurt and killed everyday, and if they cant handle it, then check out!
Our constitution does not guarantee safety or require anyone to care about others, nor is there a duty to tell the government anything. But suddenly, there are laws mandating this nonsense. You get one life. Do YOU is all I can say, cause these law fanatics don’t give a crap.
Bravo, Maestro! Google free Abigail Simon, or Michael Kuehl, Abigail Simon, and read the articles and blog-posts on my website in which I invoke the same facts and make the same arguments as you do here but in much greater scope and detail.
Thank you You hit the nail right on the head!
I would like to thank RSOL for organizing the conference and all those who attended. The fact that there are 843,000 people on the registry and it is growing in leaps in bounds shows that the system is broken. American families continue to be devastated by the harm caused by the registry and are just learning how to have a voice. We need reform, we need social programs. Most importantly everyone needs to live a life with meaning. I believe these facts speak for themselves. There is no debate.
I agree that we need more social programs. All of the offenders I met have deep seeded wounds that have left them isolated and untrusting of many people in general. They need to be able to talk to non judging people with empathetic ears. People who share the same hurt but with many different tragic life stories. This evidence comes from the experience of being within the inner circle of group therapy.
I have also been involved with my church mens group that has the same atmosphere as an offender therapy group only without the therapist but with total anonymity. Men are more insecure than they want to portray because of social norms and popular cultural beliefs how ever misinformed they are. We need more mens groups inside and outside of the church to share there struggles with one another in a safe environment that enables one to encourage vulnerability. Thank You ROSL for your presence and voice I plan to be more active from now on.
I guess my voice is missing but I will strive to give some closure to this sex offender delimna. Human nature is carnal and Yes we all have a carnal nature. Think of it this way. Why is one’s liberity judged of another man’s conscience? Man has always wanted to be in control of others. Sure we have all did wrong things in our lives. Is the sex offender irredeemible?
After he or she has spent time for their punishment are they not fit for society or does mankind say obsolute for the one caught up in this sex offender ordeal? The law seems to go above the law of human nature. Sure we all still have evil thoughts wheater it be greed or money. It even tells us in the good book about mankind. Is there no mercy in any of this sex offender ordeal scheme or are some of these schemes of a devilish nature by the people that suppose to protect and serve. Setting one up on the internet is one thing. Touching a little girl or boy is another. Rapeing someone is another but it seemes its all wrapped up into one big lump and breeds intimidation and brings fear to those.
Do the people actually know about these internet sex ordeals that police set uor play out today? Do they actually know who is playing the con or who is being the con? Do they actually know who is changing who’s diapers? Do we judge to quickly or just say obsolute to the one caught up in the sex offender ordeal?